[M�lum]

Or so it seems. The exitpolls give him, 17 or 18%, 1 or 2% more the socialist Jospin. Conservative leader Chirac leads the polls with 20%.

For who doesn't know; Le Pen is an extreme right-wing leader.

[KellyHogan]

France is boring. Switzerland is boring too. Canada too. Just boring. They are supposed to be Latinos but they just don't have the same spices flowing in their blood.

[voodoo]

Scary. There is a situation in France.

[BRussell]

I intercepted a CIA email that shows the US was behind this.

[KellyHogan]

Originally posted by BRussell:
<STRONG>I intercepted a CIA email that shows the US was behind this.
</STRONG>

Damn. I thought I swear I was using 512 bit Hollywood movie class encryption.

[ink]

Originally posted by KellyHogan:
<STRONG>

Damn. I thought I swear I was using 512 bit Hollywood movie class encryption.</STRONG>

Oh, well, John Travolta's hackerboys can break that in just a few seconds.

[noliv]

shame on france

[stefls]

Hmmm, Jospin and Chirac should have led their campaigns a little more enthousiatically. Partially because of the very poor attendance people as Le Pen do get an opportunity... Well, hopefully things will work out differently after all. If Le Pen does get trough to the second round, that would be the first time I'd actually support Chirac.

Stefan

[theolein]

F�ck le Pen! This reminds me of the Austrian election a few years ago when the Austrians basically were plainly tired of two big parties not doing anything for them and ended up voting for that f�ckwit Haider, upon which the EU froze relations with them for a while. Be funny if the same thing happens in France.

[andymcdeee]

Originally posted by theolein:
<STRONG>F�ck le Pen! This reminds me of the Austrian election a few years ago when the Austrians basically were plainly tired of two big parties not doing anything for them and ended up voting for that f�ckwit Haider, upon which the EU froze relations with them for a while. Be funny if the same thing happens in France.</STRONG>

So what 's this guy like? I never understood right wing, left wing - don't know what they mean. Is he a nasty customer? Wierd policys?

[The Ginger Rat]

Originally posted by andymcdeee:
<STRONG>

So what 's this guy like? I never understood right wing, left wing - don't know what they mean. Is he a nasty customer? Wierd policys?</STRONG>

France is for the white man, that kind of thing, is one of his more prominent policies (i.e. anti-immigration, particularly from the former French colonies of North Africa).

I have never heard him speak. Chirac is a fairly boring dude; does Le Pen have any charisma to speak of?

[Shekwan]

Never heard of Le Pen ? You should check this article: Le Pen ultimate by Adar Primor (Ha'aretz)

[M�lum]

Originally posted by Shekwan:
<STRONG>Never heard of Le Pen ? You should check this article: Le Pen ultimate by Adar Primor (Ha'aretz)</STRONG>

A good link.
Le Pen surely made huge improvements in how to present himself and his ideas.
I almost agreed with some of his points of view!
But it's the general undertone, the little details from the past and present that give a completely other indiation.

I would love to have kelly's opinion about this interview.

[WebOliver]

People in France are shocked because Le Pen is in second round... They are the same ones which has not voted or voted for small candidates..

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: WebOliver ]

[derbs]

hey look on the bright side; when we've got a federal Europe, we won't have to worry about undesirables getting democratically elected

[M�lum]

Originally posted by derbs:
<STRONG>hey look on the bright side; when we've got a federal Europe, we won't have to worry about undesirables getting democratically elected </STRONG>

Let me explain how the lections work in th EU.

Each country elects, through special european elections, his representatives. These people, together with the governments of each country (also elected) choose the people they think are the best to represent all the Europeans.

Why is it like that? Why not elect directly those people in Brussels?
Let me give you some examples:

-Because of the language barriers, the avarage voter, in say Belgium, would not go for the (maybe better) Greek politician, but vote for his own representative.
In this way none of the smaller countries would have representatives in Europe at all, as the bigger countries, with more voters, would always win.
It would be a rather unfair parliament, wouldn't it?

Even if there wouldn't be any language barrier, the amount of electable politicians would be so huge that it would be impossible for the average voter to choose.
It would also become a highly expensive election, think of all the pubblicity.

Although the actual system is not the best, it is the only possible method of electing the EU leaders.
Whenever we grow further, the system will surely adapt.

[derbs]

Originally posted by M�lum:
<STRONG>

Let me explain how the lections work in th EU.

Each country elects, through special european elections, his representatives. These people, together with the governments of each country (also elected) choose the people they think are the best to represent all the Europeans.

Why is it like that? Why not elect directly those people in Brussels?
Let me give you some examples:

-Because of the language barriers, the avarage voter, in say Belgium, would not go for the (maybe better) Greek politician, but vote for his own representative.
In this way none of the smaller countries would have representatives in Europe at all, as the bigger countries, with more voters, would always win.
It would be a rather unfair parliament, wouldn't it?

Even if there wouldn't be any language barrier, the amount of electable politicians would be so huge that it would be impossible for the average voter to choose.
It would also become a highly expensive election, think of all the pubblicity.

Although the actual system is not the best, it is the only possible method of electing the EU leaders.
Whenever we grow further, the system will surely adapt.</STRONG>

what about the Commission...? How do we say who gets elected to that?

[BRussell]

I think it's funny that people are so "shocked." France has been peddling national/cultural superiority and purity for a long time. It's just been left-wing. That attitude naturally allies with the right-wing anyway.

Le Pen is just the logical extension of the cultural purity attitude that has been mainstream France for so long.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by BRussell:
<STRONG>I think it's funny that people are so "shocked." France has been peddling national/cultural superiority and purity for a long time. It's just been left-wing. That attitude naturally allies with the right-wing anyway.

Le Pen is just the logical extension of the cultural purity attitude that has been mainstream France for so long.</STRONG>

Considering all the snotty, superior and arrogant comments that caome from Europe about American politics, my emotional response to this result can be summed up by one word: Shadenfreude.

[daimoni]

.

[theolein]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
<STRONG>

Considering all the snotty, superior and arrogant comments that caome from Europe about American politics, my emotional response to this result can be summed up by one word: Shadenfreude.</STRONG>

It is spelled "Schadenfreude".

And before you go on about me being culturally whatever, let me say that I'm a culturally inferior African, not a European.

I really don't understand some of the Euro-hatred being dished out by Americans. There are surely a lot of arrogant whatevers here in Europe who criticize the US whenever they can for whatever reason they can, not knowing much about the US or it's people, but I'm pretty sure you could say the same thing about the US couldn't you? Biggotry, arrogance, lack of knowledge etc. is not confined to any one country is it, or do you think that all Americans are perfect?

I remember Lerkfish saying that the US feels stung by european criticism because they get criticized whichever way they go, and I agree with him, mainly because there are just as many Europeans who will criticize the US as a whole without attempting to differentiate between individual people. On the same note accusing Europeans as a whole of arrogant, snotty, whatever is more or less the same thing, isn't it? And equating left- and rightwing without qualification is also somewhat shortsighted don't you think?

It also often happens to be France, I notice, that gets the butt of Euro-hatred here, and I really halfway wonder why. The only people I've heard from there in recent years saying anything about France being culturally anything good have been Chirac, LePen and an ex-minister called Edith Cresson. Jospin and his crowd have had other items on their agenda. I think the reason LePen got through to the second round is because of the extremely low voter turnout, around 30% I think it was. The majority of the French just had the feeling that voting for either of the two present major candidates just wasn't worth it because it wouldn't change anything, which is also very bad but it is another problem. None of the candidates made much of a campaign, especially Jospin who, although he has improved unemployment and various other things, is a public relations desaster. A bit like Gore was - stiff and unnatural.

From what I really can gather is that, right or wrong (personally I think it's not yet the right time) the French establishment want to lessen US dominance in Europe. I do think that this is understandable on the one hand and stupid on the other simply because the French establishment is going about far too early and in entirely the wrong way by irritating other European nations by not thinking before they open their mouths.

But on a personal level, having been to France often, I like the place alot. I've actually found the average French person to be very pleasant and friendly and quite critical of their own political establishment and not really opinionated on the US in one way or another, although I'm sure that there are some who are, just like people on this board who always go on about the French this and the French that, but yet neither speak the language nor have ever spent any amount of time there.

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: theolein ]

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by theolein:
<STRONG>

It is spelled "Schadenfreude". </STRONG>

You are right. I typoed out the c. Actually, since it's now also an English word and this forum is in English, it's probably not correct to use the original German noun capitalization. So in English, it probably should just be "schadenfreude."

And it feels gooooooooood!

[theolein]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
<STRONG>

You are right. I typoed out the c. Actually, since it's now also an English word and this forum is in English, it's probably not correct to use the original German noun capitalization. So in English, it probably should just be "schadenfreude."

And it feels gooooooooood!</STRONG>

Don't worry, it was just my weltschmerz in my weltanschauung This is all from Freud isn't it?

[M�lum]

The figures indicate that the extreme right of Le Pen didn't gain much more than they already had. Say 1% more.

What made Jospin loose was the fragmentation on the left side of the political field. A pity as he was the most respected prime-minister of the last few decades.

But Le Pen can gain from this media boost a lot during the upcomming elections for the parliament.

[The Ginger Rat]

Not just North Americans who have issues with the French. I asked some Belgian colleagues about the French, and got some interesting responses. In a nutshell, the French have attitude.

[KellyHogan]

Le Pen thinks he is mightier than the sword.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by M�lum:
<STRONG>Let me explain how the lections work in th EU.

Each country elects, through special european elections, his representatives. These people, together with the governments of each country (also elected) choose the people they think are the best to represent all the Europeans.

Why is it like that? Why not elect directly those people in Brussels?
Let me give you some examples:

-Because of the language barriers, the avarage voter, in say Belgium, would not go for the (maybe better) Greek politician, but vote for his own representative.
In this way none of the smaller countries would have representatives in Europe at all, as the bigger countries, with more voters, would always win.
It would be a rather unfair parliament, wouldn't it?

Even if there wouldn't be any language barrier, the amount of electable politicians would be so huge that it would be impossible for the average voter to choose.
It would also become a highly expensive election, think of all the pubblicity.

Although the actual system is not the best, it is the only possible method of electing the EU leaders.
Whenever we grow further, the system will surely adapt.</STRONG>

This is truly an interesting system, and a novel way of getting at least the fairest possible elections for such a large mass of land, by going not just in terms of raw votes but breadth of appeal.

Only it's not all that novel. There's at least one other system in the world (possibly more that I don't know about, but the one I'm talking about should be obvious by the end of this post) which works on a similar principle, and in almost exactly the same way. I leave it as an exercise to the reader as to which system I'm talking about.

As for Le Pen, the guy scares me, but the most important thing is that he didn't win this time. And as others have pointed out, the gains he made are not large. While certainly something to note, it is not cause for panic.