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Mrjinglesusa · Jan 15, 2008, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

Of course it will be useless. Anything with an extremely limited library of titles that just keeps getting smaller is useless. Especially if you can't even record on to the discs. I wouldn't touch any next gen player unless it offered recording and lots of disc space. The money you spent on your HD-DVD player would have been better spent on poker (even if you lost!).

Umm, no. My XA-2 still works perfectly (just watched an HD-DVD last night). It still upscales DVDs better than any player out there. I can still buy HD-DVDs and the ones I already have still play fine. How is it "useless" again? The money I spent on my XA-2 has given me a year of HD movie enjoyment (so far). Well worth it IMO.

Eug · Jan 15, 2008, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Umm, no. My XA-2 still works perfectly (just watched an HD-DVD last night). It still upscales DVDs better than any player out there. I can still buy HD-DVDs and the ones I already have still play fine. How is it "useless" again? The money I spent on my XA-2 has given me a year of HD movie enjoyment (so far). Well worth it IMO.

Yeah, the XA2 gets stellar reviews for DVD upscaling.

It should be noted though I've tested Apple's DVD Player on my projector and the new one in Leopard does an excellent job at DVD upscaling too. In fact, at least one guy has reported back that the only upscaler he's seen that beats the XA2 is Apple's DVD Player.app. (I don't have an XA2 so I can't compare directly.)

That said, most people don't like using computers to play back DVDs on the TV, and I can understand why. PITA.

PaperNotes · Jan 15, 2008, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Umm, no. My XA-2 still works perfectly (just watched an HD-DVD last night). It still upscales DVDs better than any player out there.

If you just wanted an upscaling DVD player then an Oppo can kill your XA-2 and bury it 12 feet under.

I can still buy whatever HD-DVDs still exist from bargain bins and the ones I already have still play fine and I will never upgrade to anything in my life!

Fixed!

Eug · Jan 15, 2008, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

If you just wanted an upscaling DVD player then an Oppo can kill your XA-2 and bury it 12 feet under.

Actually, the XA2 is supposed to be a much better scaler than the Oppos.

The advantage of the Oppos is region free support.

pooka · Jan 15, 2008, 11:32 AM

Eug, man, throw the dude a bone. Just admit what an utter moron you've been and how stupid you feel for backing wrong horse. Post some pics of you trading food stamps at Wal Mart for HD DVDs so the guy can get some validation. Better yet, taking it in an "uncomfortable place". Jeeze. Selfish much?

Mrjinglesusa · Jan 15, 2008, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

If you just wanted an upscaling DVD player then an Oppo can kill your XA-2 and bury it 12 feet under.

Do some research before spouting off nonsense. I had an Oppo. Sold it to apply the money to the XA-2. In direct comparisons, the XA-2 was better than the Oppo in DVD upscaling. I'll look for a link...

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

Fixed!

How so? Because you thought it was cute to insert "bargain bins"? Show me ANYWHERE that has HD-DVDs in "bargain bins". Prices are exactly where they were a month ago.

"...and I will never upgrade to anything in my life." WTF does that mean? What needs to be upgraded? I have the best HD-DVD player on the market (XA-2) and the best Blu-ray player on the market (PS3). Your statement makes absolutely no sense. I'll upgrade when the need arises. There is no need right now.

Mrjinglesusa · Jan 15, 2008, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

If you just wanted an upscaling DVD player then an Oppo can kill your XA-2 and bury it 12 feet under.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...shiba-ax2.html

I own the Oppo 971, the Secrets of Home Theater DVD Benchmark highest rated upconverting DVD player. I've happily used the 971 for over a year to enjoy the best quality DVD picture I've ever had. That is, until two weeks ago when I purchased a Toshiba HD-XA2.

The HD-XA2 is, hands down, superior to my Oppo 971. In fact, a friend and I recently did an A/B comparison of the standard def DVDs of King Kong and Happy Feet (two very-well mastered titles) in the Oppo 971 and XA2. Quite frankly, we were stunned by the differences. The XA2 image had more detail and was sharper than the Oppo 971 image. On one particular scene we still-framed on Happy Feet, where the Oppo showed some ringing around edges of objects, the XA2 looked much much cleaner. On another scene in King Kong, where the XA2's better detail clearly showed a defined bead of sweat on Jack Black's cheek, the Oppo 971 caused the bead of sweat to blend into the Jack's cheek and appear more like a smudge.

I am so very pleased with the standard def upconversion of the Toshiba HD-XA2, I consider its HD-DVD capability to be just a nice bonus.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782887

Bottom line-- there is NO REASON TO BUY AN EXTERNAL VIDEO PROCESSOR if you buy the XA2. Not only did it match in virtually all the tests and visual observations the Gennum VXP chip in the Crystallio II VP but in some cases was VISUALLY SUPERIOR. The Toshiba XA2 is without a doubt the best upscaling SD DVD player that I have ever seen. It certainly leaves me depressed about the money I spent a month ago on the CII.

ort888 · Jan 15, 2008, 11:49 AM

So my coworker just bought a PS3 as a Blu-ray player and only a Blu-ray player. He isn't a gamer and has no plans to ever play a game on the thing... EVER.

...and I was thinking, is this a good thing or a bad thing for Sony? Do they really want to be selling Blu-ray players at massive losses? How much do you think they make per movie sold? $2 or $3 bucks?

Chongo · Jan 15, 2008, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Umm, no. My XA-2 still works perfectly (just watched an HD-DVD last night). It still upscales DVDs better than any player out there. I can still buy HD-DVDs and the ones I already have still play fine. How is it "useless" again? The money I spent on my XA-2 has given me a year of HD movie enjoyment (so far). Well worth it IMO.

If want to pay the S/H you can order all the HD DVD you want, including BD "exclusive" titles, from UK and European sites.

Eug · Jan 15, 2008, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

So my coworker just bought a PS3 as a Blu-ray player and only a Blu-ray player. He isn't a gamer and has no plans to ever play a game on the thing... EVER.

...and I was thinking, is this a good thing or a bad thing for Sony? Do they really want to be selling Blu-ray players at massive losses? How much do you think they make per movie sold? $2 or $3 bucks?

IIRC, Sony claims that the PS3 now costs $400 to make.

So yeah, they're still losing money on it, but not hundreds like they were before.

But then again, I suspect that Toshiba is selling their low end players at somewhere close to cost too now.

Mrjinglesusa · Jan 15, 2008, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

If want to pay the S/H you can order all the HD DVD you want, including BD "exclusive" titles, from UK and European sites.

I can also order all the HD-DVD I want from Amazon, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. They are still readily available everywhere. There have been no "fire sales" as many would have you believe.

Eug · Jan 15, 2008, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

I can also order all the HD-DVD I want from Amazon, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. They are still readily available everywhere. There have been no "fire sales" as many would have you believe.

The HD DVD sales most have been talking about have been on hardware.

I wish they would have more software sales though, as I already have the hardware.

olePigeon · Jan 15, 2008, 12:34 PM

Toshiba just dropped the price of their entry level HD-DVD player to $150.

Lateralus · Jan 15, 2008, 12:40 PM

Don't make us timeline you Pigeon...

Mrjinglesusa · Jan 15, 2008, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

The HD DVD sales most have been talking about have been on hardware.

I wish they would have more software sales though, as I already have the hardware.

Yeah, given the state of affairs, I'm actually suprised there haven't been more BOGO sales on HD-DVDs.

olePigeon · Jan 15, 2008, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Don't make us timeline you Pigeon...

I didn't see any mention of it, that's why I posted. Where was it, page 50?

Lateralus · Jan 15, 2008, 01:03 PM

Or page 110.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 02:06 PM

For those of you watching MacWorld... What's the best way to say "I told you so?"

Chongo · Jan 15, 2008, 02:19 PM

so all major studios on board for iTunes HD movies?

icruise · Jan 15, 2008, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

For those of you watching MacWorld... What's the best way to say "I told you so?"

What are you referring to, exactly?

jokell82 · Jan 15, 2008, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

so all major studios on board for iTunes HD movies?

Yep, and I just ordered an Apple TV because of it.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

What are you referring to, exactly?

The massive iTunes and AppleTV updates, and broadband delivery of streaming HD content...

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Yep, and I just ordered an Apple TV because of it.

I'll be buying one today too after I get off of work.

No optical discs for me...

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I'll be buying one today too after I get off of work.

No optical discs for me...

Good luck when you need to load something onto it.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

For those of you watching MacWorld... What's the best way to say "I told you so?"

Oh, pat yourself on the back. You're just the coolest ice cube in the tray, aren't you?

It still doesn't solve the problem of NEEDING OPTICAL DISCS TO INSTALL SH*T.

icruise · Jan 15, 2008, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

The massive iTunes and AppleTV updates, and broadband delivery of streaming HD content...

Is there anyone who *wasn't* expecting HD content on itunes? What you predicted in this thread was that Apple would be getting rid of optical drives across its entire product line, and that didn't quite pan out.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Good luck when you need to load something onto it.

Ummm... What would I need to load on my AppleTV from an optical disc?

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Ummm... What would I need to load on my AppleTV from an optical disc?

It's not that, it's the whole shpiel you gave about how we no longer need optical discs. We do. Not on an Apple TV, but we still need them.

And BTW: This "I told you so" isn't quite it. You still can't BUY stuff from the iTMS in HD, you can only rent. Therefore, you still need optical discs to OWN something. And you're also not the first person to predict downloadable movies. Seriously, it's been predicted by people older and wiser than you for years.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Is there anyone who *wasn't* expecting HD content on itunes? What you predicted in this thread was that Apple would be getting rid of optical drives across its entire product line, and that didn't quite pan out.

I didn't predict that Apple would get rid of optical drives across the line. I said that the Macbook Air wouldn't include one standard, and I was right.

My prediction was that it would take a few years for optical drives to go away across the line. Go back and read my posts if you want.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by starman

It's not that, it's the whole shpiel you gave about how we no longer need optical discs. We do. Not on an Apple TV, but we still need them.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If the average consumer buys an AppleTV, they don't need optical discs. And the whole "but you have to configure your computer to work with it" argument is now a non issue.

Originally Posted by starman

And BTW: This "I told you so" isn't quite it. You still can't BUY stuff from the iTMS in HD, you can only rent. Therefore, you still need optical discs to OWN something. And you're also not the first person to predict downloadable movies. Seriously, it's been predicted by people older and wiser than you for years.

But with optical disks you still can't get all the content from all the different studios. With iTunes you can.

icruise · Jan 15, 2008, 02:52 PM

Go back and read my posts if you think I denied that the possibility of an Apple portable without an optical drive. In fact, I said I wanted one to come out. I don't have time to go back and do detective work on your posts, but you certainly gave people the impression that you thought optical drives were going to be removed very soon.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I don't have time to go back and do detective work on your posts, but you certainly gave people the impression that you thought optical drives were going to be removed very soon.

I specifically said over the next few years. I can think of a few people in the thread who have framed what I said as something else, but I did not say that they would remove the optical drives across the line at Macworld. I specifically said that the Macbook Air would be the first.

Also Apple's silence on Bluray is telling on their position on digital downloads.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Go back and read my posts if you think I denied that the possibility of an Apple portable without an optical drive. In fact, I said I wanted one to come out. I don't have time to go back and do detective work on your posts, but you certainly gave people the impression that you thought optical drives were going to be removed very soon.

That's sure as hell the impression I got too.

So let's review:

DVD - All Studios
HD-DVD/BR - All studios, not all movies
iTMS - All studios, not all movies (HD/SD)

icruise · Jan 15, 2008, 02:57 PM

I think it's a mistake to frame the removal of the optical disk from the MacBook Air as being indicative of an overall trend. The only reason they did it was to make it lighter and thinner. As I said a while back, PC makers have been doing this for years, but it didn't herald the death of the optical disk.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by starman

DVD - All Studios
HD-DVD/BR - All studios, not all movies
iTMS - All studios, not all movies (HD/SD)

If XBox Live is any indication, iTunes will likely have more HD content than HD-DVD/Bluray.

Originally Posted by icruise

I think it's a mistake to frame the removal of the optical disk from the MacBook Air as being indicative of an overall trend. The only reason they did it was to make it lighter and thinner. As I said a while back, PC makers have been doing this for years, but it didn't herald the death of the optical disk.

Perhaps, but the optical drive being optional certainly is indicative of an overall trend. If they included the optical drive standard, I'd agree with you. But an optional optical drive means Apple doesn't think the optical drive is important enough to provide to a user as standard.

Every computer I've seen that didn't have an optical drive came with an external one standardly.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

If XBox Live is any indication, iTunes will likely have more HD content than HD-DVD/Bluray.

PFFT? WHAT?

XBL has almost NO HD content compared to BR/HD-DVD.

icruise · Jan 15, 2008, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Every computer I've seen that didn't have an optical drive came with an external one standardly.

Nope, I bought a windows subnotebook in 2001 that had an optional optical drive, and they've been doing that for much longer.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I think it's a mistake to frame the removal of the optical disk from the MacBook Air as being indicative of an overall trend. The only reason they did it was to make it lighter and thinner. As I said a while back, PC makers have been doing this for years, but it didn't herald the death of the optical disk.

Exactly.

Let's review again. Here's what I'd need to install to get a MBA running:

Mac OS X (in case of a reinstall to all you smartasses)
Office 2004 (or 2008)
World Of Warcraft (that's 2 DVDs, folks)
Adobe Photoshop CS3
A few misc. programs on CD

Oh, and then there's watching movies offline. Hmm....

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Mac OS X (in case of a reinstall to all you smartasses)

It'll be nice to see how Apple deals with this on the Macbook Air.

Originally Posted by starman

Office 2004 (or 2008)

Microsoft really should have this downloadable. The PC version is.

Originally Posted by starman

World Of Warcraft (that's 2 DVDs, folks)

Downloadable.

Originally Posted by starman

Adobe Photoshop CS3

Downloadable. (Takes about 10 minutes.)

Originally Posted by starman

Oh, and then there's watching movies offline. Hmm....

iTunes.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 03:22 PM

Ok, WoW and CS3 is downloadable but where the hell am I gonna store it? See, that's something you don't understand. You can download all you want but you have to PUT IT SOMEWHERE. I don't want to drop a ton of money on a friggin' 9TB drive to store all this crap I already own, and another large drive to back it up.

Yay optical discs!

And not all the movies I own are on iTunes. You fail at that also.

icruise · Jan 15, 2008, 03:24 PM

Apple has implemented a feature where you can "borrow" the optical drive in another computer to use on the MacBook Air. I don't know if you can use it to reinstall the OS, but installing software is not a problem. But it just goes to show how we're still dependent on optical disks in some sense.

I've long said that as long as you have a main computer with an optical disk, you don't need one in your portable. I'd be less enthusiastic about getting rid of it on my only computer, though.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Ok, WoW and CS3 is downloadable but where the hell am I gonna store it? See, that's something you don't understand. You can download all you want but you have to PUT IT SOMEWHERE. I don't want to drop a ton of money on a friggin' 9TB drive to store all this crap I already own, and another large drive to back it up.

Why store Photoshop? It takes 10 minutes to download it again. Just throw out the disk image when you're done, and download it from Adobe again when you need it.

World of Warcraft I can sympathize a bit more with, but I know several people who upgraded to Burning Crusade via download. I had to upgrade myself via download when I got bad discs from Blizzard. Burning Crusade is only 4 or 5 discs so it wasn't a bad download.

Regardless, Apple's Time Capsule is 1 TB. Sounds like a good solution for archiving your stuff. I'm sure Apple would agree.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 03:28 PM

Except my Mac Pro doesn't use wireless, it's on an ethernet connection, and Time Capsule's too small.

Mrjinglesusa · Jan 15, 2008, 03:30 PM

What does any of this have to do with Blu-ray/HD-DVD? This discussion belongs in the MacBook Air or peripherals thread.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Except my Mac Pro doesn't use wireless, it's on an ethernet connection

Time Capsule has gigabit Ethernet.

Originally Posted by starman

and Time Capsule's too small.

Terrabyte is too small to archive some software installers and other stuff you don't need handy? I guess if it really is too small you could hook in an external drive. I have a drive plugged into my gigabit Airport Extreme.

icruise · Jan 15, 2008, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

What does any of this have to do with Blu-ray/HD-DVD? This discussion belongs in the MacBook Air or peripherals thread.

I agree except that it's an extension of a discussion we've been having about whether optical technologies such as Blu-ray and HD-DVD will be obsolete in the next few years. Still, it might be best to take detailed discussion of the MacBook Air here:

http://forums.macnn.com/69/macbook-p...k-air-is-real/

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 15, 2008, 03:38 PM

Wait is this the MacBook Air thread now?
This was hilarious.
Format War: The Downfall of HD DVD, Now Available on Blu-ray

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 03:46 PM

It just seems to me that this "optical discs are dead" idea hasn't and won't come to fruition anytime soon. You still need a boatload of storage space to keep anything. The MBA seems to depend on either a host computer or a network connection to run anything (I hope you don't run out of disk space when downloading the image!).

No, I'll stick with BR/HD-DVD/DVD for a while. Much more convenient and works offline.

ort888 · Jan 15, 2008, 03:47 PM

GoMac is a like a modern day Nostradomus.

It's uncanny. I'm getting chills thinking about how right his bold predictions were...

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by starman

It just seems to me that this "optical discs are dead" idea hasn't and won't come to fruition anytime soon. You still need a boatload of storage space to keep anything. The MBA seems to depend on either a host computer or a network connection to run anything (I hope you don't run out of disk space when downloading the image!).

Sure, but you don't need to keep everything on your laptop. That's what stuff like BackToMyMac is for.

(Please Apple, add BackToMyMac support to the Airport Extreme/Time Capsule disk sharing.)

Originally Posted by starman

No, I'll stick with BR/HD-DVD/DVD for a while. Much more convenient and works offline.

It would seem iTunes Movie Rentals can be played offline. After all, they can play on an iPod.