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goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 03:51 PM

Also, I'd like to know if the Universal movie deal on iTunes means the return of Universal tv shows. Here's for hoping for BSG in HD on iTunes...

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 03:51 PM

Ok, I didn't say it had to be kept ON YOUR LAPTOP, did I? I said you need a boatload of space. I didn't say WHERE. If I keep it on another computer, that's....another computer I have to keep around. If I keep it on something like Time Capsule, that's still more money I have to shell out for a device.

Point: If I buy a movie on Blu-Ray for, say $20, I keep that movie forever. If I buy it and have to download it, I have to:

Buy the movie
Have something to store it on.
Hope my internet connection doesn't die
Hope the movie doesn't need to "dial home" to play (purchases, not rentals)
Can play in the minivan on long trips with the kids.

Still seems to me that optical isn't dead, nor will be.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

GoMac is a like a modern day Nostradomus.

It's uncanny. I'm getting chills thinking about how right his bold predictions were...

A few points:

1) As I said before, others have predicted this for a while.
2) He cheats. He apparently has had insider knowledge.

Eug · Jan 15, 2008, 03:55 PM

So, Apple's indifference to the hi-def optical format war continues.

Here's hoping for NAB.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by starman

He cheats. He apparently has had insider knowledge.

I didn't have insider knowledge on iTunes stuff. 720p with 5.1 audio seemed like the obvious choice, and a software update to the AppleTV seemed like it could fix all the problems.

However... I have heard murmurs about an Apple Remote Desktop update...

Edit: Apple has released info on how to reinstall the OS on a Macbook Air. Apparently you do a network based install from another machine with a dvd drive.

Chongo · Jan 15, 2008, 04:02 PM

Apple - Apple TV - HD Movie Rentals

Now the war is over

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 04:04 PM

No, it's not. Those are 720p and 5.1 only. There's still a long way to go. Managed media, the concept of "ownership", and those are rentals only.

sek929 · Jan 15, 2008, 04:05 PM

I'd still prefer to actually own the movie instead of storing massive files all over the place.

cSurfr · Jan 15, 2008, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by starman

No, it's not. Those are 720p and 5.1 only. There's still a long way to go. Managed media, the concept of "ownership", and those are rentals only.

720p and 5.1 is more than decent enough for the general public. Hell 95% of people can't tell the diference between 480/720/1080 anyway. And I for one, have lost a lot of hearing from the engines of the jet. . . TrueHD? Yeah, I can't tell the difference.

Do you really see buying movies as a good investment? How many times will you actually watch the same movie?

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

I'd still prefer to actually own the movie instead of storing massive files all over the place.

Exactly

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by cSurfr

Do you really see buying movies as a good investment? How many times will you actually watch the same movie?

Why does it have to be seen as an "investment"? I see it this way: for the two of us to go to the movies, it's $22 in tickets. A DVD is $12. If it's in HD (HD or BR), then the movie is around the same price. Although renting is financially better, I prefer owning films. No, I don't watch them every day, but I don't want my rental habits tracked, I don't want to depend on an internet connection to watch them, and I don't want to have to pay every time I watch a film. Not to mention I'm worried about Disney shutting me out of watching a film for 7 years.

sek929 · Jan 15, 2008, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by cSurfr

e. Do you really see buying movies as a good investment? How many times will you actually watch the same movie?

If I spent money buying a movie you better believe that I like it enough as to watch it numerous times.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 04:11 PM

Also, if I didn't like movies so much, I wouldn't have a 35mm projector. :/

analogue SPRINKLES · 04:23 PM

I ain't renting no movie for 24 hours.

For the same damn price I can rent the DVD for a few days, watch it as much as I like, copy it to my hard drive or god forbid make a copy of it.

"Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound is not available with all HD rentals,"
"We've also learned that HD movie rentals will be available exclusively through the Apple TV, and considering that only rentals made from iTunes can be moved to other devices, any downloads originating from the Apple TV (including everything in high-definition) won't be making their way onto your iPod, iTunes library, etc. Depressing, we know."

**** THAT!

sek929 · Jan 15, 2008, 04:14 PM

If space isn't an issue you can always rip all your HD movies anyways, I guess I'm just against most rental systems since I like to OWN my goods.

Eug · Jan 15, 2008, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by cSurfr

Do you really see buying movies as a good investment?

I expect the investment on my purchased movies to be exactly negative 100%.

anogee · Jan 15, 2008, 04:22 PM

After owning a HD-DVD player and having used a Blu-Ray player on my TV on several occasions, its clear that both formats are loosers. Compared to DVD disks, the improvement isn't large, certainly not the step-up from VHS to DVD. In fact, in my opinion, over-the-air HD is much clearer than either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. For me, both are a let-down. Send them both back to the drawing board, and design one that people will really want to have. I want resolution that will knock my socks off.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 15, 2008, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by anogee

After owning a HD-DVD player and having used a Blu-Ray player on my TV on several occasions, its clear that both formats are loosers.

Well don't let Toshiba or Sony hear you say that or they will point out they are getting an expert opinion from someone who doesn't know how to spell losers.

sek929 · Jan 15, 2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by anogee

I want resolution that will knock my socks off.

What do you have? a 10800p TV or something?

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

They sold those units to a VERY exclusive market, one that favored security over convenience.

Optical drives will be standard on every single Macintosh, with the exception of an ultra-subcompact unit that Apple will release, it will be different and separate from the present Macbooks and MBPs. However, even that unit will have a docking station WITH an optical drive.

ODs aren't going anywhere for at least another 4-6 years. They are, and will be, standard Apple (and PC) hardware for some time.

Oooooo, I was spot-on (except for the "docking station", turns out the drive hooks up via USB). Nothing unusual, they just decided to release a niche portable.

All other Macs for the foreseeable future (4-6 years) will have optical drives, this is just a new tiny toy. In fact, they really go on-and-on about how you can access the OD on other machines via wireless.

They simply built it to prove that they could. I'll be buying one myself, once they reach their first revision... and iron out the bugs. Plus, I'd prefer more RAM and a bigger HD.

starman · Jan 15, 2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by anogee

After owning a HD-DVD player and having used a Blu-Ray player on my TV on several occasions, its clear that both formats are loosers. Compared to DVD disks, the improvement isn't large, certainly not the step-up from VHS to DVD. In fact, in my opinion, over-the-air HD is much clearer than either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. For me, both are a let-down. Send them both back to the drawing board, and design one that people will really want to have. I want resolution that will knock my socks off.

LOL. Maybe you should actually set your machine for 1080, or play the HD-DVD side of a movie?

ort888 · Jan 15, 2008, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by starman

A few points:

1) As I said before, others have predicted this for a while.
2) He cheats. He apparently has had insider knowledge.

I was being sarcastic.

Let me add a few of my own bold predictions...

Apple will introduce a 16 gig iPod Nano and iPhone in the next 6 months.
Apple will introduce iPhone games by the end of the year.
Apple will update their MacBook and MacBook Pro computers with faster versions.

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

What do you have? a 10800p TV or something?

Ignore that guy, he's just deluded.

anogee · Jan 15, 2008, 04:41 PM

Well don't let Toshiba or Sony hear you say that or they will point out they are getting an expert opinion from someone who doesn't know how to spell losers.

Actually I'm a technical writer as a profession, but unfortunately my editor doesn't review postings.

My TV is 1080i. I've viewed some over-the-air 1080i broadcasts on PBS which just look incredible. I have some HD-DVD sampler disks which lack the same impact.

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 04:56 PM

Dude, you can't compare unless it's the same content. Some PBS nature special with eye-popping colors is always going to look "better" than other types of content. It's the COLOR. A similar thing is to play a stereo louder and with lively music to make it seem better.

Use the same content and compare OTA and Blu-ray/HD-DVD.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Apple will introduce a 16 gig iPod Nano and iPhone in the next 6 months.
Apple will introduce iPhone games by the end of the year.
Apple will update their MacBook and MacBook Pro computers with faster versions.

I'm not saying it isn't an obvious guess. I'm just saying there are some people here who claimed that a HD consumer video delivery service with instant on support wasn't plausible for the next few years.

ort888 · Jan 15, 2008, 05:09 PM

But it was already being done on the 360 when you made your bold prediction. A box from Netflix that does this has also been announced.

It's not really a bold prediction at all. It's like saying that computers are going to get faster.

Mrjinglesusa · Jan 15, 2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by anogee

After owning a HD-DVD player and having used a Blu-Ray player on my TV on several occasions, its clear that both formats are loosers. Compared to DVD disks, the improvement isn't large, certainly not the step-up from VHS to DVD. In fact, in my opinion, over-the-air HD is much clearer than either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. For me, both are a let-down. Send them both back to the drawing board, and design one that people will really want to have. I want resolution that will knock my socks off.

Something is not right with your set-up. Trust me, an HD-DVD or Blu-ray movie, connected to a 1080p HDTV via HDMI, is clearly and unequivocably superior to a standard DVD unless you are blind. If over-the-air HD looks better than an HD-DVD or Blu-ray movie, again, something is wrong with your set-up or your connections. I doubt that the human eye can even process much more than 1080 so if that doesn't "knock your socks off" then nothing will.

Originally Posted by starman

LOL. Maybe you should actually set your machine for 1080, or play the HD-DVD side of a movie?

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 05:13 PM

I'm not saying it isn't an obvious guess. I'm just saying there are some people here who claimed that a HD consumer video delivery service with instant on support wasn't plausible for the next few years.

When it's an uncompressed "HD consumer video delivery service with instant on support", WITH TrueHD and DTS HD, let me know. I'll be interested then.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

"Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound is not available with all HD rentals,"

Expected, the same is true on XBox Live...

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

"We've also learned that HD movie rentals will be available exclusively through the Apple TV, and considering that only rentals made from iTunes can be moved to other devices, any downloads originating from the Apple TV (including everything in high-definition) won't be making their way onto your iPod, iTunes library, etc. Depressing, we know."

That's sort of depressing. I'm more interested in moving TV shows though. We'll see. The AppleTV has moved from mostly unusable to very adequate for me. Another software update could fix this issue. Coding movie rentals into iTunes could be quite a bit of work and sounds more like an iTunes 8 feature to me. I think that after today it's been shown Apple does care a lot about the AppleTV, and that's exciting enough for me.

Now I just need to decide if I want the 40 gig or 160 gig version. A 160 gig AppleTV may not be necessary if I have a large Mac Pro backing it... On the other hand, if my Mac Pro is booted into Windows I won't be able to stream any content to the AppleTV...

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

When it's an uncompressed "HD consumer video delivery service with instant on support", WITH True HD and DTS HD, let me know. I'll be interested then.

Oh god, not the uncompressed police again... Not even Bluray or HD-DVD has uncompressed video...

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Oh god, not the uncompressed police again... Not even Bluray or HD-DVD has uncompressed video...

You missed the rest bubba.

Streaming HD commonly has very noticeable artefacts in the video, this isn't the same with HD discs. Plus, audio is a big deal, I want my TrueHD and DTS HD.

jokell82 · Jan 15, 2008, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

When it's an uncompressed "HD consumer video delivery service with instant on support", WITH TrueHD and DTS HD, let me know. I'll be interested then.

Not even Blu-Ray can offer uncompressed 1080p video. You're going to be waiting for a very long time for that one...

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Streaming HD commonly has very noticeable artefacts in the video, this isn't the same with HD discs. Plus, audio is a big deal, I want my TrueHD and DTS HD.

You're talking about something streamed on a streaming server. iTunes Rentals are different, they're files that can be played while being loaded. If XBox Live is any indication (which it should be, they use similar compression), there shouldn't be any artifacts.

hyteckit · Jan 15, 2008, 05:24 PM

Those who want to own movies will most likely buy physical media.

Those who just want to rent the movie will want the convenience of just downloading it.

Physical media will not die anytime soon, but will be less important for watching movies at home.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Sheesh people. I like having choices.

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Not even Blu-Ray can offer uncompressed 1080p video. You're going to be waiting for a very long time for that one...

Even if they can the video to look the same, which will take time, the sound is the main culprit. I'm fond of discreet 7.1 channel audio that isn't squashed into the 100-12Khz range. I guess the Bose "Acoustimass crowd" might not notice, but those with real HT systems won't be happy.

Touching on the video again. There is compression and then there's compression, there's a much more noticeable amount in streaming HD.

jokell82 · Jan 15, 2008, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Even if they can the video to look the same, which will take time, the sound is the main culprit. I'm fond of discreet 7.1 channel audio that isn't squashed into the 100-12Khz range. I guess the Bose "Acoustimass crowd" might not notice, but those with real HT systems won't be happy.

Touching on the video again. There is compression and then there's compression, there's a much more noticeable amount in streaming HD.

And again, this isn't streaming HD.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Even if they can the video to look the same, which will take time, the sound is the main culprit. I'm fond of discreet 7.1 channel audio that isn't squashed into the 100-12Khz range. I guess the Bose "Acoustimass crowd" might not notice, but those with real HT systems won't be happy.

I'm not sure this is an issue with your average consumer...

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Touching on the video again. There is compression and then there's compression, there's a much more noticeable amount in streaming HD.

Again, this is a different sort of streaming than you're thinking. Yes, Flash streaming and QTSS server is pretty bad. Apple will be supplying H.264 MP4 files that can be played while they download. There will be no streaming server or RTSP.

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

You're talking about something streamed on a streaming server. iTunes Rentals are different, they're files that can be played while being loaded. If XBox Live is any indication (which it should be, they use similar compression), there shouldn't be any artifacts.

I'll try it out on my 180" projected screen and compare it to BD and HD-DVD.

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

And again, this isn't streaming HD.

Yes, it is. I can see the high compression in streaming HD, plus I lose the superior audio.

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm not sure this is an issue with your average consumer...

So, anyone with a decent HT just suffers under your plan? Again, I want TrueHD and DTS HD, and I'm not going to compromise on that, and neither will other BD owners.

Again, this is a different sort of streaming than you're thinking. Yes, Flash streaming and QTSS server is pretty bad. Apple will be supplying H.264 MP4 files that can be played while they download. There will be no streaming server or RTSP.

I'll look at it, but I won't compromise an inch, either for video or sound.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

I'll try it out on my 180" projected screen and compare it to BD and HD-DVD.

Again... not really your average consumer...

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Yes, it is. I can see the high compression in streaming HD, plus I lose the superior audio.

No, for the last time, it's not streaming from a streaming server.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 15, 2008, 05:58 PM

This thread is way off.

This movie rental thing isn't doing it for me as I got video stores all around me and my Satellite dish and PVR lets me rent HD movies in 1080i with full 5.1 for the same price as Apple.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

So, anyone with a decent HT just suffers under your plan? Again, I want TrueHD and DTS HD, and I'm not going to compromise on that, and neither will other BD owners.

For 95% of people, a decent HT is a 37" TV with 5.1 audio...

Originally Posted by Shaddim

I'll look at it, but I won't compromise an inch, either for video or sound.

Well, I will feign shock when you notice a decrease in quality on your 180 inch almost theatre size screen and then claim that the AppleTV is unacceptable for most of the market.

hyteckit · Jan 15, 2008, 06:00 PM

Most consumers don't even have a surround sound system set up properly at home. Less than 1% of consumers care about 7.1 channel lossless sound. It's just something to brag about.

jokell82 · Jan 15, 2008, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

For 95% of people, a decent HT is a 37" TV with 5.1 audio...

Well, I will feign shock when you notice a decrease in quality on your 180 inch almost theatre size screen and then claim that the AppleTV is unacceptable for most of the market.

For seriously.

goMac · Jan 15, 2008, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

"We've also learned that HD movie rentals will be available exclusively through the Apple TV, and considering that only rentals made from iTunes can be moved to other devices, any downloads originating from the Apple TV (including everything in high-definition) won't be making their way onto your iPod, iTunes library, etc. Depressing, we know."

Someone on the Macrumors forum said they were able to see the 720p rented content on iTunes (and they verified it is 1280x720). I'm still looking for the rentable content myself currently...

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Again... not really your average consumer...

No, for the last time, it's not streaming from a streaming server.

I know a lot of people with 50"+ HD sets, and they'll be able to tell too.

and it still doesn't have HQ 7.1 audio, which will kill it for all but the "McDonald's and Wal-Mart" type crowd.

I'm sure your streaming HD will be "fine" on a small display with a pair of speakers, but that's not HT, is it?

Shaddim · Jan 15, 2008, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Most consumers don't even have a surround sound system set up properly at home. Less than 1% of consumers care about 7.1 channel lossless sound. It's just something to brag about.

Unless you actually sit down and witness it, then the bragging stops and the jaw-dropping begins.

hyteckit · Jan 15, 2008, 06:08 PM

Damn, $5 for HD and $4 for SD rentals. Hell no.

I'm in if it's $3 for HD and $2 for SD rentals. It's netflix for me.