[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Well, in Japan the 360 is the niche hardcore RPG machine. So it's probably only owned by gaming fanboys who would rate it highly. It's not that weird. It's just a skewed statistic because the sample size is so small.

The last few months saw several "mature" titles finally hit the Wii and they all sold terribly. Not a good sign.

House of the Dead = 45,000
Madworld = 57,000
Deadly Creatures = 15,000
Dead Rising Wii = 15,000

For a comparison, Mario Kart DS sold more then all of these put together (145k) and is about 3.5 years old.

People keep saying that if developers made hardcore Wii games they would sell, but it doesn't seem to be true.

WOW that is terrible. whats your source of information on that ?

Also, how did Mirror's Edge, Little Big Planet, Toumb Raider, Prince of Persia. do on the XB360/PS3 in their first month ?

-Dead Rising is such an amazing port im sure the XB360/PS3 guys would have picked up a ported game of this quality.
-Madworld was released 14 days ago.

How are games like Wii Sports or Guitar Hero selling on the XB360/PS3 ?

Just so we're all clear..... the question is not whether mature/childish/action/RPG/racing/simulation/old/new games sell on any platform, it's whether or not quality AAA games, with appropriate development and marketing budgets sell on any given platform.

Having said that..... name me one mature AAA third-party game on the Wii apart from Guitar Hero World Tour ?

You cannot expect your audience to pick up crap. to say a game doesn't sell well, might be because the game is bad, not the platform. if on the other hand you do have AAA mature third party titles on the system and they dont sell well, thats another story. Lets just be clear about that.

[Dakar V]

Guitar Hero is not a mature game.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Not only that, but apparently Madworld would have to sell 2-3 million copies to make a "sizable" profit:
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/03/23/wa...-to-sell-2-3m/

He has some other things to say about Wii development (mostly criticisms of cross-platform issues) that are sure to make the Nintendo fanboys a bit upset.

I heard that interview. he's obviously unbiased in his opinion. I mean his studio only ported a PS2 game to the Wii and added waggle... and he complains it didnt sell well.... because it's the Wii's job to sell his great game.

Let's not forget the part where he compares the Wii to Genesis, technically. Oh and also that he praises the PS3 to high heaven. Obviously that has nothing to do with the fact that his studio is releasing a game on the PS3 and his job probably depends on how well said game sells (ie this is probably a PR stunt).

I found the argument amusing in that when they talk about third party efforts, one guy comes in with 'Okami'(Wii) as an example of how software doesnt sell on the Wii.... obviously cause it sold so well on the PS2. But none of them bothered to mention that RE4(wii) did really well. Or the fact that both these games are in fact last generation ports.

Or the fact that these 'journalists' expect game sales from games that are low budget and poor quality. once again, name me one third party AAA title on the platform, with the exception of GH: WT ? Thats not the platform's fault. that's the developers fault. NO platform owner will buy bad quality titles. plain and simple.

Cheers

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Guitar Hero is not a mature game.

Go nuts... name any AAA third party title on Wii ?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Go nuts... name any AAA third party title on Wii ?

Yeah, that has nothing to do with what I was saying.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Yeah, that has nothing to do with what I was saying.

I know, Guitar hero, is not a 'mature' title. i agree. it just so happens that it's probably the only AAA title, imo that the Wii has received from third parties.

So the question still stands..... apart from that, is there any AAA third party title on the Wii ?

[Dakar V]

Not that I'm a part of this discussion, but should you probably define AAA score, and why you're not counting AA or just A games.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Go nuts... name any AAA third party title on Wii ?

What do you use as a metric for "AAA"? Madworld doesn't fit your criteria?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-Dead Rising is such an amazing port im sure the XB360/PS3 guys would have picked up a ported game of this quality.

That's funny. So the system is simply incapable of fully recreating the game as it was released on the 360. Instead of saying "screw the Wii" the developer actually takes their time to release as faithful of a game as they can. And instead of understanding the technical limitations of the platform, you simply write it off as a crappy port. Nice.

[sek929]

From everything I've read Madworld is indeed a AAA third-party title.

The problem it isn't selling is that girlfriends and little children are the primary driver of Wii sales, and those demographics don't play excessively violent games.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by ort888

The last few months saw several "mature" titles finally hit the Wii and they all sold terribly. Not a good sign.

House of the Dead = 45,000
Madworld = 57,000
Deadly Creatures = 15,000
Dead Rising Wii = 15,000

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Also, how did Mirror's Edge, Little Big Planet, Toumb Raider, Prince of Persia. do on the XB360/PS3 in their first month ?

Little Big Planet is a "mature" title? Really?

FYI, LBP sold about 750,000 copies it's first month.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Little Big Planet is a "mature" title? Really?

Actually, none of the games listed are, if you go by their ESRB classification.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by sek929 

The problem it isn't selling is that girlfriends and little children are the primary driver of Wii sales, and those demographics don't play excessively violent games.

[ajprice]

Question for the PS360 owners. If a download game comes out on both XBL and PSN, which system do you generally buy it for?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

question for the ps360 owners. If a download game comes out on both xbl and psn, which system do you generally buy it for?

360

[Dakar V]

This should help sales of WiiFit.

[ort888]

Okay, I'm sorry, scratch the 57k for Madworld, because apparently that number came from VG Chartz, which just makes stuff up. The rest of the numbers are correct though and are from leaked NPD numbers on NEOGAF.

[ort888]

NPD: January 2009 Life to Date Numbers

Multiplatform

Assassin’s Creed - 2.3m (360), 1.15m (PS3)
Bioshock - 998k (360), 106k (PS3)
The Bourne Conspiracy - 103k (360), 83k (PS3)
Burnout Paradise - 371k (360) 306k (PS3)
Civilization Revolution - 96k (DS), 254k (360), 149k (PS3)
The Darkness - 284k (360), 133k (PS3)
Dark Sector - 139k (360), 97k (PS3)
Dead Space - 337k (360), 212k (PS3)
Disgaea - 45k (DS), 78k (PSP)
Dynasty Warriors 6 - 113k (360), 103k (PS3), 26k (PS2)
Eternal Sonata - 98k (360), 33k (PS3)
Fallout 3 - 1.14m (360), 452k (PS3)
Fight Night 3 - 1.19M (360) 526k (PS3)
Guitar Hero 3 - 2.37M (360) 830k (PS3) 2.75M (Wii)
Guitar Hero: World Tour - 924k (360) 466k (PS3) 1.39M (Wii)
Kane & Lynch - 300k (360), 197k (PS3)
Karaoke Revolution Presents American Idol Encore 1 - 85k (360) 46k (PS3)
Karaoke Revolution Presents American Idol Encore 2 - 20k (36o) 16k (PS3)
Lego Batman - 207k (360), 128k (PS3), 507k (PS2), 420k (Wii)
Lego Indiana Jones - 241k (360), 142k (PS3), 456k (PS2), 563k (Wii)
Mirror’s Edge - 207k (360), 125k (PS3)
Mortal Kombat vs DC - 592k (360), 512k (PS3)
N+ - 26k (DS), 21k (PSP)
Prince of Persia - 282k (360), 248k (PS3)
Pure - 158k (360) 92k (PS3)
Rock Band 1 - 1.65M (360) 648k (PS3) 1.03M (Wii)
Rock Band 2 - 1.02M (360) 384k (PS3) 353k (Wii)
Saints Row 2 - 480k (360), 188k (PS3)
Saints Row 2 [Collector's Edition only] - 30k (360), 11k (PS3)
Shaun White - 271k (360), 141k (PS3), 537k (Wii)
Silent Hill 5 - 73k (360), 84k (PS3)
Silent Hill Origins: 80k (PS2), 154k (PSP)
Skate - 606k (360) 202k (PS3)
Sonic Unleashed - 113k (360), 69k (PS3), 315k (Wii)
Soul Calibur 4 - 500k (360), 353k (PS3)
Space Invaders Extreme - 58k (DS), 34k (PSP)
Star Wars Force Unleashed - 823k (360) 464k (PS3) 626k (Wii) 175k (DS) 263k (PSP) 352k (PS2)
Tiger Woods 09 - 216k (360), 174k (PS3), 565k (Wii)
Unreal Tournament III - 164k (360) 219k (PS3)
The World Ends With You - 172k

360
Beautiful Katamari - 96k
Banjo: Nuts & Bolts - 154k
Battle Fantasia - 4,704
Blue Dragon - 189k
Halo 3 - 4.66m (regular), 633k (CE), 479k (LE)
Infinite Undiscovery - 110k
Left 4 Dead - 1.28m
Lips - 46k
Lost Odyssey - 348k
Ninja Gaiden II - 517k
Saints Row 1 - 1.02m
Tales of Vesperia - 107k
The Last Remnant 118k
Viva Pinata 2 - 80k

PS3

Folklore - 109k
Genji: Days of the Blade - 96k
Heavenly Sword - 386k
Lair - 185k
Little Big Planet - 670k
Metal Gear Solid 4 - 1.09m
Motorstorm 1 - 427k
Motorstorm 2 - 138k
Ninja Gaiden Sigma - 316k
Rachet & Clank: Tools of Destruction - 427k
Resistance - 1.07m
Resistance 2 - 640k
Time Crisis 4 - 206k
Uncharted - 534k
Valkyria Chronicles - 74k

Wii

Animal Crossing - 654k (game only), 161k (Wiispeak bundle)
Blast Works - 31k
Castle Shikigami 3 - 7,366
Fantastic 4 - 76k
Mario & Sonic @ at the Olympics - 1.99m
No More Heroes - 208k
Ultimate Duck Hunting - 49k
Ultimate Shooting Collection - 1,126
Zack & Wiki - 117k

PS2

Disney Golf - 59k
Final Fantasy X - 2.46m
Final Fantasy XII - 1.85m
Katamari Damacy - 450k
Kingdom Hearts 1 - 3.28m
Kingdom Hearts 2 - 2.3m
Kingdom Hearts: RE:Chain of Memories - 312k
Marvel vs Capcom 2 - 246k
Odin Sphere - 149k
Persona 4 - 123k
SMT: Devil Summoner - 43k
SMT: Digital Devil Saga 1 - 51k
SMT: Digital Devil Saga 2 - 43k
SMT: Nocturne - 60k
Silent Hill 2 - 512k
Silent Hill 3 - 279k
Silent Hill 4 - 209k
We Love Katamari - 230k
Yakuza 1 - 56k
Yakuza 2 - 24k SMH at people not buying this...

PSP

Crisis Core: FF7 - 708k
Patapon - 229k
God of War: Chains of Olympus - 640k
Star Ocean: First Departure - 69k
Yggdra Union - 12k

DS

Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney - 71k
Chrono Trigger - 210k
Contra 4 - 115k
Dragon Quest 4 - 76k
Final Fantasy 4 - 275k
Final Fantasy Tactics A2 - 233k
Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney - 117k
Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Justice for All - 110k
Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations - 92k
Professor Layton & the Curious Village - 340k
Trauma Center: Under the Knife - 225k
Trauma Center: Under the Knife 2 - 61k

[Dakar V]

I don't understand what you're trying to illustrate.

[Hawkeye_a]

ort888, cheers for the info mate; much appreciated. Since these numbers are from NPD, i assume they're only for N.America.

Let's analyze.....
Multi-platform releases across all current-gen platforms (yes that includes the Wii )

Multi-platform:
Guitar Hero 3 - 2.37M (360) 830k (PS3) 2.75M (Wii)
Guitar Hero: World Tour - 924k (360) 466k (PS3) 1.39M (Wii)
Lego Batman - 207k (360), 128k (PS3), 507k (PS2), 420k (Wii)
Lego Indiana Jones - 241k (360), 142k (PS3), 456k (PS2), 563k (Wii)
Rock Band 1 - 1.65M (360) 648k (PS3) 1.03M (Wii)
Rock Band 2 - 1.02M (360) 384k (PS3) 353k (Wii)
Shaun White - 271k (360), 141k (PS3), 537k (Wii)
Sonic Unleashed - 113k (360), 69k (PS3), 315k (Wii)
Star Wars Force Unleashed - 823k (360) 464k (PS3) 626k (Wii) 175k (DS) 263k (PSP) 352k (PS2)
Tiger Woods 09 - 216k (360), 174k (PS3), 565k (Wii)

Looking at JUST the XB360/PS3/Wii sales for current gen SKUs, i have 'bold-ified' the instances where the Wii version outsold the other two. As highlighted above the exceptions are Rock Band 1 and 2 and Star Wars Force Unleashed.

My theories as to why those exceptions exist:
-Rock band 1 and 2
I'll direct you guys to the discussion we had around this time last year (i think), where the RB guys says it was 'technically impossible' to have DLC on the Wii, and some other excuses they came up with why the Rockband experience from the XB360/PS3 could not be replicated on the Wii. I called em out, despite some people citing them as a credible source of criticism of the Wii. Today we have Guitar Hero World Tour on Wii..... nuff said.

-SW: FU
As we all know, the Wii version was developed by the studio that produced the PS2&PSP version. The assets were probably shared across the 3 SKUs. My theory.... Wii owners don't like PS2-ish ports with just tacked on controls. I do consider this a 'last generation' game on the Wii, and surprisingly it sold better than it's siblings (the PS2 and PSP version). I guess we'll never know how much this game would have sold, had it been given the resources and TLC the XB360/PS3 version were.

Of the Wii exclusives, i think No More Heroes is probably the only 'mature' title. right ? I didnt pick it up because it was too rough around the edges for me. but in it's defense, this Suda51's best selling game.... ever, with a sequel on the way.

So, factoring in the lower development costs for the Wii and the generally larger sales, would it be so far fetched to assume that the Wii SKUs turned a profit as opposed to the the XB360+PS3, which are more expensive to make ?

Other observations from that list:
Bioshock - 998k (360), 106k (PS3)
Dead Space - 337k (360), 212k (PS3)
Dark Sector - 139k (360), 97k (PS3)
Kane & Lynch - 300k (360), 197k (PS3)
Prince of Persia - 282k (360), 248k (PS3)
Pure - 158k (360) 92k (PS3)
Silent Hill 5 - 73k (360), 84k (PS3)
Skate - 606k (360) 202k (PS3)
Soul Calibur 4 - 500k (360), 353k (PS3)
Unreal Tournament III - 164k (360) 219k (PS3)
Mirror’s Edge - 207k (360), 125k (PS3)

I know the time frame of the games above vary quite a lot, but consider Bioshock, Dead Space, Kane & Lynch, Prince of Persia, Skate, Soul Calibre 4, Mirror's Edge, all released last year. Would it be fair to call these titles 'big budget titles', .... what are the chances these games turned a profit ? keep in mind that development costs on the 360/PS3 are, according to industry insiders, a magnitude higher over last generation hardware and the Wii.

BioShock at ~1.1m, Prince of Persia and Dead Space just over .5m, Mirror's Edge well below .5m.

Also, i wonder what the RE4 numbers are across the GCN,PS2 and Wii.

Discuss.

[ort888]

I think big budget games need to hit about the 500k to break even. That's worldwide. Europe has really grown in size as a gaming market, so as a general rule you can just take the US numbers and double them to get a rough idea of worldwide sales.

I know there are sequels for for Bioshock, Dead Space, & Skate... so they must be making money. They wouldn't make a sequel for a game that didn't make money.

[sek929]

Mario & Sonic @ at the Olympics - 1.99m

2 million people actually bought this game, interesting.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Multi-platform:
Guitar Hero 3 - 2.37M (360) 830k (PS3) 2.75M (Wii)
Guitar Hero: World Tour - 924k (360) 466k (PS3) 1.39M (Wii)
Lego Batman - 207k (360), 128k (PS3), 507k (PS2), 420k (Wii)
Lego Indiana Jones - 241k (360), 142k (PS3), 456k (PS2), 563k (Wii)
Rock Band 1 - 1.65M (360) 648k (PS3) 1.03M (Wii)
Rock Band 2 - 1.02M (360) 384k (PS3) 353k (Wii)
Shaun White - 271k (360), 141k (PS3), 537k (Wii)
Sonic Unleashed - 113k (360), 69k (PS3), 315k (Wii)
Star Wars Force Unleashed - 823k (360) 464k (PS3) 626k (Wii) 175k (DS) 263k (PSP) 352k (PS2)
Tiger Woods 09 - 216k (360), 174k (PS3), 565k (Wii)

The common thread here is all of these games are rated E (I believe), and Family Oriented.

The lone exception: your underperformer, Star Wars. Coincidence? Possibly.

The lack of COD5 numbers is a bit perturbing.

[Hawkeye_a]

Nintendo's GDC 2009 Keynote info:
- Wii update 4.0 - allows loading and saving from SD/SDHC (32GB SD storage now possible)
- Wii Shop can now download directly to SD/SDHC
- Expanding VC to also have Arcade games.(some titles announced)
- Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks(DS)

Cheers

[sek929]

I can't see how Star Wars can be considered a crappy port, doesn't it feature things exclusive to the Wii?

Also, isn't this game sort of tailor-made for Wiimote use?

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

The lone exception: your underperformer, Star Wars. Coincidence? Possibly.

At least it sold more on the Wii than the PS3. so second place is alright, especially considering the development history of each SKU (as outlined in my previous post).

Imagine what those numbers would have been had the same amount been invested across all 3 SKUs... i wonder.

Originally Posted by sek929 

I can't see how Star Wars can be considered a crappy port, doesn't it feature things exclusive to the Wii?

Also, isn't this game sort of tailor-made for Wiimote use?

As mentioned above, the Wii version is a PS2/PSP port. with some extra stuff and Wii controls. i assume Wii gamers dont want PS2 ports (see Rock Band 1 and Okami sales as well).

For me, personally, a game needs to be at least as good(technically, visually, etc) as a GCN game to even consider..... PS2 games as a little too far behind(with a few exceptions) (compare the RE4 ports).

Cheers

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

At least it sold more on the Wii than the PS3. so second place is alright,

It'd be hard for it not to, the Wii outnumbers the PS3 almost 3-to-1 in the US.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

It'd be hard for it not to, the Wii outnumbers the PS3 almost 3-to-1 in the US.

So i guess, the larger Wii install base can pay off for third parties. Considering unit sales(as opposed to attach rates) contribute to revenues and profits.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I can't see how Star Wars can be considered a crappy port, doesn't it feature things exclusive to the Wii?

Also, isn't this game sort of tailor-made for Wiimote use?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

As mentioned above, the Wii version is a PS2/PSP port.

Cheers

We've been through this bullshit before. Metacritic lists the 360, PS3, and Wii scores at 73, 70, and 71 respectively. The score difference between the 3 is negligible. The PS2 version got a 68.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

So i guess, the larger Wii install base can pay off for third parties. Considering unit sales(as opposed to attach rates) contribute to revenues and profits.

That's a different argument than what was being discussed here, I believe. Wasn't the original argument that 3rd party titles (particularly mature) don't sell well on the Wii?

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

We've been through this bullshit before. Metacritic lists the 360, PS3, and Wii scores at 73, 70, and 71 respectively. The score difference between the 3 is negligible. The PS2 version got a 68.

Chill dude. the sales seem to line up with their appropriate scores.

But the fact that they rated similarly doesnt change the fact that the XB360/PS3 and PS2/PSP/Wii SKUs were developed by two different studios, on two different continents. So assuming the latter developed for the lowest common denominator (PS2/PSP), which most studio's do to cut costs, the Wii version is in fact a PS2 port. And i theorize that Wii gamers do not like that given sales of other PS2 ports as well.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

That's a different argument than what was being discussed here, I believe. Wasn't the original argument that 3rd party titles (particularly mature) don't sell well on the Wii?

But.... like the numbers say, for this particular game.... it sold better on the Wii than it did on the PS3. what's the confusion ?

So if, using this example, you conclude that mature third party titles dont sell well on the Wii... what's ur opinion about how they sell on the PS3 ? (talking plain unit sales here, not profitability, which is in the Wii's favor given development costs)

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Chill dude. the sales seem to line up with their appropriate scores.

But the fact that they rated similarly doesnt change the fact that the XB360/PS3 and PS2/PSP/Wii SKUs were developed by two different studios, on two different continents. So assuming the latter developed for the lowest common denominator (PS2/PSP), which most studio's do to cut costs, the Wii version is in fact a PS2 port. And i theorize that Wii gamers do not like that given sales of other PS2 ports as well.

Do you have a reference for studios developing for the lowest common denominator? It makes just as much sense to me that a studio develops for it's powerhouse console first, and then drops features/graphics/whatever to port to the other consoles.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

The lack of COD5 numbers is a bit perturbing.

I agree. Where are the COD 4 & 5 numbers? It appears Gears of War 1 & 2 are missing as well. I would have liked to compare their numbers to the Halo 3.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-SW: FU
As we all know, the Wii version was developed by the studio that produced the PS2&PSP version. The assets were probably shared across the 3 SKUs. My theory.... Wii owners don't like PS2-ish ports with just tacked on controls. I do consider this a 'last generation' game on the Wii, and surprisingly it sold better than it's siblings (the PS2 and PSP version). I guess we'll never know how much this game would have sold, had it been given the resources and TLC the XB360/PS3 version were.

Even if your theory is correct, you actually think that the majority of people know this when they're in Walmart picking up new video games?!?! Give me a break.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Chill dude. the sales seem to line up with their appropriate scores.

I am chill. The swearing denotes the ludicrousness of you bringing up that tired old argument again.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

i theorize that Wii gamers do not like that given sales of other PS2 ports as well.

Based on what? Everything we've learned is that Wii gamers aren't "hardcore" gamers but "casual" ones, and thus, it'd be strange to expect them to know about the port, let alone do a compare/contrast with the other versions. There's nothing "casual" about that.

Edit: and jokell beats me to the same punch.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

But.... like the numbers say, for this particular game.... it sold better on the Wii than it did on the PS3. what's the confusion ?

This thing we call "attach rate". Just like in sports, there's more than one way to measure a game or console's worth.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Do you have a reference for studios developing for the lowest common denominator? It makes just as much sense to me that a studio develops for it's powerhouse console first, and then drops features/graphics/whatever to port to the other consoles.

For example, that developer you quoted earlier said so in that same interview.

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Even if your theory is correct, you actually think that the majority of people know this when they're in Walmart picking up new video games?!?! Give me a break.

Well i dont assume to know what people know and dont know. It just appears that PS2 ports dont sell well on the Wii. Thats a fact.

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

This thing we call "attach rate". Just like in sports, there's more than one way to measure a game or console's worth.

So let me get this straight..... if a theoretical high end console has an installed base of 2 units, and a 'mature third party' game sells 2 copies on said platform, for an attach rate of 100%; that to you constitutes a better market for that type of game than the Wii ? So according to your measure this theoretical console with 100% attach rate(and 2 unit sales) is the best console for mature third party titles ?

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

Question for the PS360 owners. If a download game comes out on both XBL and PSN, which system do you generally buy it for?

360. All my friends have xbox live. Also, the multi platform games are sometimes cheaper for the 360. You almost never see a PS3 title on sale. I got COD 5 for the 360 at Best Buy for $30 a few weeks after it was released. There was one day I walked into Target they had Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead, Dead Space & COD 5 on sale for $35.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

So let me get this straight..... if a high end console has 2 units installed base, and a 'mature third party' game sells 2 copies on said platform, for an attach rate of 100%. That to you constitutes a better market for that type of game than the Wii ?

Your hyperbole aside, yes. Let's take Force Unleashed as an example (US numbers):

On the 360:
823,000 copies sold to 16.8 million consoles sold
Attach rate: 4.89%

On the PS3:
464,000 copies sold to 8.16 million consoles sold
Attach rate: 5.69%

On the Wii:
626,000 copies sold to 22.28 million consoles sold
Attach rate: 2.81%

Now this has nothing to do with how profitable the game was. But what those numbers *DO* tell the studios and developers is that the PS3 and 360 owner is more receptive to games like this, and the Wii audience is not. It may influence further game development.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

So let me get this straight..... if a theoretical high end console has an installed base of 2 units, and a 'mature third party' game sells 2 copies on said platform, for an attach rate of 100%; that to you constitutes a better market for that type of game than the Wii ?

This theory is loaded a ridiculous situation and a undefined, probably subjective term. I'll pass, thanks.

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

360. All my friends have xbox live. Also, the multi platform games are sometimes cheaper for the 360. You almost never see a PS3 title on sale. I got COD 5 for the 360 at Best Buy for $30 a few weeks after it was released. There was one day I walked into Target they had Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead, Dead Space & COD 5 on sale for $35.

About the latter, I'm not sure how indicative that is about console. There were a lot of crazy sales going on during and right after the holidays.

[Hawkeye_a]

So to summarize your post, it would be in a studio's interest to develop for a platform with higher attach rates, at the cost of selling fewer units ?

To take my earlier example further.... a studio would be better off continuing to develop for the 2-unit-platform, because of the 100% attach rate, as opposed to a console where the attach rate is lower, but they sell more units ?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

So to summarize your post, it would be in a studio's interest to develop for a platform with higher attach rates, at the cost of selling fewer units ?

That's pretty much what Nintendo was doing last generation.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

This theory is loaded a ridiculous situation and a undefined, probably subjective term. I'll pass, thanks.

I'll simplify. You've said, you prefer attach rates over unit sales, right ? that's cool. The SW FU example, it's higher attach rates with lower unit sales on the PS3. which do you think publisher and developers would prefer, attach rates or unit sales ?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

You've said, you prefer attach rates over unit sales, right ?

No, I didn't say that.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

That's pretty much what Nintendo was doing last generation.

Yeah, so was Microsoft. but i thought we were talking about mature THIRD PARTY titles ? or has the argument changed ?

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

No, I didn't say that.

I thought you said the lower PS3 unit sales of SW FU was better for the developer than the higher Wii unit sales because the PS3's 'attach rate' was higher ? If not, what exactly are you arguing ?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Yeah, so was Microsoft.

...coincidentally, both companies are turning a profit this generation.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

but i thought we were talking about mature THIRD PARTY titles ? or has the argument changed ?

Good point, we're getting off track here.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I thought you said the lower PS3 unit sales of SW FU was better for the developer than the higher Wii sales because the PS3's attach rate was higher ?

Please, show me where I said that.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Please, show me where I said that.

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

That's a different argument than what was being discussed here, I believe. Wasn't the original argument that 3rd party titles (particularly mature) don't sell well on the Wii?

Sorry it wasn't you, i was getting multiple discussions crossed.

So to address your argument.... despite having sold more units on the Wii, you think the game did 'better' on the PS3, because of attach rates ? fair enough.

As far as Microsoft turning a profit.... im pretty sure Nintendo turned a profit on the GCN, and Microsoft didnt on the XBox. With this generation, i wasn't aware that Microsoft pulled out of the red yet (for the entire life-cycle). If you do have some info on their XB division balance sheet, do share.

But yeah, as far as SW: FU, i think the publishers/developers were probably happier with Wii's sales than PS3's sales (unit sales).

Alright, im off to downlad Wii System Menu 4.0

Cheers

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

So to summarize your post, it would be in a studio's interest to develop for a platform with higher attach rates, at the cost of selling fewer units ?

To take my earlier example further.... a studio would be better off continuing to develop for the 2-unit-platform, because of the 100% attach rate, as opposed to a console where the attach rate is lower, but they sell more units ?

You're going too far with this. The point of attach rates is to have a way to gauge the console market. Because of higher attach rates on the 360 and the PS3, the studios can decide that games similar to that are worth a higher investment on those consoles, as their return may be better.

It's not a substitute for profits, but it is a metric that the studios look at.