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Since this is Obama's (and Clinton's and Dubya's) leftover mess, from passing the buck on the PRK for 8 years, he doesn't get away scot-free.
When you think about it, Truman is to ultimately blame. He would not alllow McArthur to bomb the bridges on the Yalu and prevent the Chinese getting involved. The war would have been over. Instead the Chinese crossed into NK and pushed the UN troops back to eventual DMZ. This ended with a "cessation of hostilities" that has been in place since. The "Korean Police Action" never ended.
I'll answer this for my area. Probably ~60% of the people who live in this part of TN like Trump, and 30% of those remaining don't exactly like him, but they don't hate him nearly as much as they hate the MSM.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
A local radio station conducted a poll asking people, "how much do you trust the mainstream media", and only 7% stated they did. When asked if they trust Trump it was well over half (I believe it was 55%).
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
I'm listening to Shapiro occasionally, but to me he does too much fan wanking — everything is put into Red Team–Blue Team terms. National Review's podcast is quite similar, although they do have occasionally interesting segments.
If you are interested in political podcasts that don't fit the standard partisan pattern, I recommend Dan Carlin's Common Sense (that's Mr. Hardcore History) and Pantsuit Politics (where a moderate conservative and a moderate liberal talk about the news). What I like about the second one especially is the chemistry of the two hosts, they are genuine friends who like and respect each other. Plus, they often have interesting guests (recently they interviewed someone from 538 and a former staffer of Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah)).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
So let me get this straight. You're quoting an old interview of a POTUS who's nomination you opposed just a year ago, that represents his views from 20 years ago, which was at a time when he was a pro-choice, pro gun control democrat.
My hat is off to you. That is some serious kool-aid drinking.
You don't need to go back 18 years to get contradictory statements from Trump, you just need to comb through Trump's twitter account No, but seriously, given what we know about Trump now, why do you think Trump's statements from 2 decades ago has any bearing on what happens today?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Clinton's administration was this close to getting a deal in place with North Korea. Bush's admin scrapped that approach. Now they have nukes and a pretty decent delivery system - you're not backing them down nearly as easily.
"The likes of which have never been seen" was pretty funny, though. You're gonna nuke them? Vietnam them? Berlin them? Sounds like such a great plan, Mr. President.
Both extremes are a serious problem. Yes, white supremacy needs to be rejected outright, but so does Antifa and other black bloc, Marxist extremists. Only in the center is there a path to peace. Right now we need to be "radical centrists" and reject the extremes.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status:
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Aug 16, 2017, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Both extremes are a serious problem. Yes, white supremacy needs to be rejected outright, but so does Antifa and other black bloc, Marxist extremists.
I thought Antifa were anarchist?
Either way.
Side 1: We need to ethnically cleanse the United States. We need to create a white ethno-state. We need to drive out with violence any Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, or any other non-white groups that don't leave of their own accord, even those that fought for this nation and have lived here for generations.
Side 2: We don't want you to succeed in your goal, it is inhumane.
Side 1: We need to ethnically cleanse the United States. We need to create a white ethno-state. We need to drive out with violence any Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, or any other non-white groups that don't leave of their own accord, even those that fought for this nation and have lived here for generations.
Side 2: We don't want you to succeed in your goal, it is inhumane.
"Both sides are serious problems, guys!"
Exactly, and I don't understand the motivation behind CTP's vehement defense here.
Side 1: We need to ethnically cleanse the United States. We need to create a white ethno-state. We need to drive out with violence any Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, or any other non-white groups that don't leave of their own accord, even those that fought for this nation and have lived here for generations.
Side 2: We don't want you to succeed in your goal, it is inhumane.
"Both sides are serious problems, guys!"
This is what I was failing to articulate among other things in the Charlottesville thread.
Side 2: We don't want you to succeed in your goal, it is inhumane.
"Both sides are serious problems, guys!"
Disgraceful. I think you're more honest than that, but I could be wrong. Nazis, though verbally repellent, aren't typically violent, unless you stupidly try to "punch" them. Antifa, OTOH, are usually more quiet but much more violent.
This is just one instance, I can fill pages with more:
Antifa works to block free speech, time and again, even against ordinary conservative speakers:
If you'd like to post where US neo-nazis, no matter how shitty they admittedly are, have systematically worked to block the lawful rights of others, I'm all ears.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Exactly, and I don't understand the motivation behind CTP's vehement defense here.
Because you like the rabid dogs on your "side", they're useful to you.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Yes, we've all agreed on that. Literally no one here denies that. But you've ignored what I was saying.
No, you aren't paying attention, they go after people who aren't white supremacists. Anyone to the Right of them is fair game:
They're behaving like rabid dogs and there's a reason their slogan is "By Any Means Necessary". Black Bloc terrorists, which have been around longer than the current iteration of the alt-Right, have opposed western society for decades. IOW, their targets aren't just neo-Nazis, or even the alt-Right, it's capitalism itself.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Are you just playing devil's advocate again, or is this really what you think?
Yeah, it's what I think.
Here's CNN's Chris Cuomo trying to elevate Antifa dirtbags to the level of real soldiers, many of whom died on the beaches of Normandy that day. It's twisted.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status:
Offline
Aug 17, 2017, 09:37 AM
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
No, you aren't paying attention, they go after people who aren't white supremacists.
I...never said they didn't?
You're trying awfully hard to steer the conversation away from the fact that this rally of white supremacists, Nazis, and racists literally want to turn the US into a white ethno-state.
Your'e trying to do this by pointing out that the anti-protestors are violent, which is a point absolutely no one is arguing against.
It just seems odd that you're not phased by the literal Nazis that want to ethnically cleanse your country.
It just seems odd that you're not phased by the literal Nazis that want to ethnically cleanse your country.
Let's talk about this for a while, leaving the specific behaviours exhibited at Charlottesville alone for a while.
CTP, are you bothered by David Duke thanking Trump for his statements? Are you bothered by the KKK/neo-nazis seeming more energized and inspired than normal? Are you bothered by their comfort and support of the president of the US?
We know that there are ugly and radical left-wing groups, and we know that people on the left don't always exhibit positive behavior. I'm not as concerned with specific behavior on specific days than I am in general national trends. To me, these hate groups are the real problem, Charlottesville is a symptom of this problem. The president's behavior is also a concern of mine, but even this is less of an issue to me because his time in politics will eventually come to an end.
What should be done about these literal nazis that want to ethnic cleanse the country? As the US struggles Americans need to, IMO, find more empathy for each other. These groups are the exact opposite of that, and the exact opposite of the direction the US should be headed in in terms of race relations which are obviously in a very perilous state as well.
Can we talk about this, preferably without making this about the left and Hillary Clinton? After all, it is pretty apparent that these KKK/neo-nazis are predominantly fervent Trump supporters, agreed?
With Naziism and white supremacy violence is inherent. Its explicitly built into the ideology. To wipe out or enslave other races or at the very least to evict them from white areas or countries.
There is further evidence of this in the way they talk. They don't calmly state opinions about genetic superiority, or a desire to peacefully segregate the races and then peacefully ignore each other afterwards, they swear a lot and display extraordinary anger towards all other races. Slurs flying all over the place.
Throwing the first punch is just a legal technicality and a calculated strategy for these Nazis. They deliberately provoke others into throwing the first punch. They hardly deserve the condemnation they've been getting for falling into the trap set for them.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status:
Offline
Aug 17, 2017, 12:30 PM
It sounds like you're trying to downplay the violence of the antifa, which feeds into CTP's point. You don't need to do that. The other side is literally Nazis.
You're trying awfully hard to steer the conversation away from the fact that this rally of white supremacists, Nazis, and racists literally want to turn the US into a white ethno-state.
and you're ignoring that Antifa wants to turn it into a Marxist, communist state (which is just as bad). I agree, nazis are bad (seems conservatives have to disavow every 5 min these days), I certainly don't want what they want, but I sure as hell don't want what Antifa wants, either.
Your'e trying to do this by pointing out that the anti-protestors are violent, which is a point absolutely no one is arguing against.
It just seems odd that you're not phased by the literal Nazis that want to ethnically cleanse your country.
I am phased. The thing is, just yelling at the alt-Right and pushing them back isn't going to do anything, and neither is ignoring them, they aren't going to disappear. You can't deport them, they're US citizens, and if you try to silence them the ACLU will get injunctions to allow them to publicly protest.
But I believe they can still be reasoned with, even people like Richard Spencer (who is far from the worst). They believe in structure, in respect for authority (to a point), while Antifa certainly doesn't. They like to tear down authority and cause chaos. It also doesn't help that there are ignorant folks, even on this forum, who believe that Antifa largely "sets trash cans on fire and breaks windows".
I'm still at a loss for what to do with the nazis, other than debate them and publically expose their ideas as crap, tearing down their ideology for the world to see (maybe have a debate between Shapiro and Spencer and let Ben rip him to shreds). Antifa, OTOH, ignores dialogue and randomly shows up at things and causes harm and injury. We already have gang/anti-terrorism laws for people like that.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
and you're ignoring that Antifa wants to turn it into a Marxist, communist state (which is just as bad). I agree, nazis are bad (seems conservatives have to disavow every 5 min these days), I certainly don't want what they want, but I sure as hell don't want what Antifa wants, either.
But why do we not see Antifa running their own violent marches to further these alleged agendas.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
I am phased. The thing is, just yelling at the alt-Right and pushing them back isn't going to do anything, and neither is ignoring them, they aren't going to disappear. You can't deport them, they're US citizens, and if you try to silence them the ACLU will get injunctions to allow them to publicly protest.
This is one of the most sensible things I've seen you say in ages.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
But I believe they can still be reasoned with, even people like Richard Spencer (who is far from the worst). They believe in structure, in respect for authority (to a point), while Antifa certainly doesn't. They like to tear down authority and cause chaos. It also doesn't help that there are ignorant folks, even on this forum, who believe that Antifa largely "sets trash cans on fire and breaks windows".
And we're back to our regularly scheduled nonsense.
Again, where are the violent Antifa rallies? Where are they seen driving cars into crowds? They are purely reactionary. No fascists, no need for anti-fascists.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
I'm still at a loss for what to do with the nazis, other than debate them and publically expose their ideas as crap, tearing down their ideology for the world to see (maybe have a debate between Shapiro and Spencer and let Ben rip him to shreds). Antifa, OTOH, ignores dialogue and randomly shows up at things and causes harm and injury. We already have gang/anti-terrorism laws for people like that.
On an individual basis, there is lots of anecdotal cases of racists being led to question themselves when you can separate them from their groups and then expose them to members of other races. Unfortunately its wildly impractical to send each and every last one of them on foreign exchange trips to live with families in Africa or wherever for a month each.
Education has to be the most important tool to try to address the problem, but there you've got massive cuts and Betsy DeVos trying to privatise it or whatever evil scheme she's up to so good luck with that.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
It sounds like you're trying to downplay the violence of the antifa, which feeds into CTP's point. You don't need to do that. The other side is literally Nazis.
This would be true if he isn't saying what a lot of other Americans are saying (which means even more are thinking it) including your leader.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
It sounds like you're trying to downplay the violence of the antifa, which feeds into CTP's point. You don't need to do that. The other side is literally Nazis.
Reading the quotes from Trump's rally, it is interesting that he feels that the way to solve problems is by escalating all conflicts rather than de-escalating at least some of them.
After this is laughed off, what will the Dems do next? This only hurts them later if they try again.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
To the Republican base they didn't, at least based on this small MacNN sample size. I don't recall any Republicans in here having any problems with the repeal attempts at all.
To the Republican base they didn't, at least based on this small MacNN sample size. I don't recall any Republicans in here having any problems with the repeal attempts at all.
Hence them having a problem with said attempts failing.
The base is not happy McCain stomped on the party's dick.
You and I can agree on this, but the only way to know if it hurt them is if they get voted out, if their base stops supporting them. I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing doubling down.
In my own confusion I forgot to ask what conservatives made of Trump cutting that deal with Pelosi and Schumer
He's never been against Mexicans immigrating here, just when they do it illegally, and it makes sense. As a compromise, if a person has served in the military, and/or has lived here for decades w/o turning to crime (other than the illegal immigration itself, of course), they should be given a green card and offered a path to citizenship. He said this during his campaign, only the press was too busy with the 24/7 hate machine to care. Basically, as with just about everything else, he's doing what he said during his campaign. ALSO, this will give him some leverage with Dems to build the wall and to completely reform the immigration system.
Seriously, if you want to know what Trump is going to do, keep track of his campaign promises, he's trying to keep them.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Seriously, if you want to know what Trump is going to do, keep track of his campaign promises, he's trying to keep them.
Actually, that's true.
Repeal Obamacare on day 1: Check
Build the wall: Check
Make Mexica pay for it: Check
Lock Hillary up: Check
Get out of Afghanistan: Check
Not take vacations/Play golf: Check
Release his Tax Returns: Check
Bring back waterboarding/enhanced interrogation: Check
I know it is, with the exception of Obamacare he's virtually erased Obama's legacy, and in only 6 months. If you think; Obamacare isn't going to be replaced, the Wall isn't going to happen, and Hillary isn't going to be indicted, you're high. There are a lot of people who believe change must happen overnight, it's likely why you're on the Left, but that's not how federal politics works. When you do rush changes they become a disaster (see the afore-mentioned Obamacare), like everything the Democratic party has attempted over the last decade.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
He's never been against Mexicans immigrating here, just when they do it illegally, and it makes sense. As a compromise, if a person has served in the military, and/or has lived here for decades w/o turning to crime (other than the illegal immigration itself, of course), they should be given a green card and offered a path to citizenship. He said this during his campaign, only the press was too busy with the 24/7 hate machine to care. Basically, as with just about everything else, he's doing what he said during his campaign. ALSO, this will give him some leverage with Dems to build the wall and to completely reform the immigration system.
Seriously, if you want to know what Trump is going to do, keep track of his campaign promises, he's trying to keep them.
He did promise to not chuck people who have lived here for decades without turning to crime, and people were being unfair to him by not acknowledging it.
Then, a month or two ago, he flipped. I'm not sure of the status of those who served in the military, but the policy which allowed crime-free, long-term illegals to stay was revoked.
He did promise to not chuck people who have lived here for decades without turning to crime, and people were being unfair to him by not acknowledging it.
Then, a month or two ago, he flipped. I'm not sure of the status of those who served in the military, but the policy which allowed crime-free, long-term illegals to stay was revoked.
I know he flipped, but as it turned out it was a ploy so he could flip back, as he's doing with the Pelosi and Schumer deal (so that they'll be more willing to work with him on the wall and immigration reform). None of the "Dreamers" who aren't criminals will be deported, it was never his intention, it was a gambit.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr