[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Secret__Police:
I just have to ask this one question.......

Just what do we make in the USA anymore?? Do we make anything anymore?

I must have missed this earlier.

Yank products I own: Guitars, amplifiers, guitar stuff (strings, straps, cables, plectra), speakers, cars, washing machine, "hoover", fridge.

Oh, and some computer goodies. With fuirty logos on them (doesn't matter that they not built in the US, as long as the US owner profits from the sale - as explained to everyone in the UK by Mr Dyson a few weeks back).

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Care to elaborate?

In Germany, when you apply for a loan to buy a house for instance, then the value of the house remains fixed, say 100, for as long as you owe the bank money.

In America, it seems to be that the value of the house is not fixed. If the house is worth 100 in the beginning, you apply for a credit for 100. After -- say -- five years, the market value of your house decreases to 90, you have an additional 10 to spend (on a car for instance).

I'm not 100 % sure if I got everything right (as his explanation took about 45 minutes) and I'm no expert on banks and all that.

Then, according to this guy (my sister's bf), a lot of real estate is undervalued, so when the value has to be corrected (upwards), there is a lot less money to spend. The US economy is very much dependent on domestic demand (unlike Germany, for example). In addition to that, when the interest rate of the fed is increased (well, it can't get any lower than this), it's harder to get a credit as well.

His employer (one of the two biggest banks in Germany) is already taking the necessary steps to change their strategy accordingly, i. e. investing somewhere else (e. g. China).

[Zimphire]

My house has went UP in value since I bought it.

Of course anytime you make improvements, the value goes up.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
In Germany, when you apply for a loan to buy a house for instance, then the value of the house remains fixed, say 100, for as long as you owe the bank money.

In America, it seems to be that the value of the house is not fixed. If the house is worth 100 in the beginning, you apply for a credit for 100. After -- say -- five years, the market value of your house decreases to 90, you have an additional 10 to spend (on a car for instance).

This seems a little strange.
Here (UK), you take out a mortgage on a property for the market value at the time of the sale. Regardless of the increase or decrease of the house value over the term of the loan, you still pay the bank the original agreed value plus interest.

Thus, aside from any interest rate rises, there's no additional money to pay (or gain) when the house is revalued.

(I'm no expert - never having had to have a mortgage - but this is how I understand it)

[PB2K]

Low dollar is great, for 100 euro's I can buy 136 dollars.

Just arrange a friend who goes to the states and let him take that nice equipment home

still. the applestore here is more expensive than that in the US.

[Scifience]

Originally posted by tonton:
Ok. Please recommend someone you consider to be good Jpop.

I'd recommend some Cantopop for you, but I assure you that none of it is good.

Kpop is just more Britney/Boyband/American Idol crap and hip-hop.

All the Jpop I've ever heard (and I've heard a lot) is Britney/Boyband/American Idol crap or some little schoolgirl cutesy stuff or some horrible visual pop.

If I'm wrong, then make a suggestion and I'll check it out!

But if it sounds like Britney or Justin singing in Japanese, or (even worse) some little girl, then I'm not interested and I stand by my statement.

Look these up: Puffy, Hikaru Utada (not her new English release, though), Hamasaki Ayumi, Polysics, ACO, Kitaki Mayu.

[wataru]

Originally posted by Scifience:
Look these up: Puffy, Hikaru Utada (not her new English release, though), Hamasaki Ayumi, Polysics, ACO, Kitaki Mayu.

I get the feeling that he's not going to like Puffy or Hamasaki Ayumi. Frankly, I can't stand either of them.

[Skip Breakfast]

We also can't compete with other countries in terms of quality. Take cars, for instance. Sure, we make them, and we even made the modern car first, but other countries now do it better.

This has more to do with engineering, management, and suppliers than it does with the folks who do the assembly work. If it weren't true, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mercedes, and BMW wouldn't have factories on US soil. Those factories are here for economic reasons as well. VW/Audi is considering building a US factory because the weakening dollar is killing their ability to be profitable.

[Scifience]

Originally posted by wataru:
I get the feeling that he's not going to like Puffy or Hamasaki Ayumi. Frankly, I can't stand either of them.

Oh well. Just recommending what I liked. I don't like all of Ayu's stuff, but I like the rock-type songs. GAME comes to mind.

[Spliffdaddy]

Property value gets re-assessed by the local government in order to determine its property tax. So, if your house increases in value during ownership your taxes may increase, as well. Typically, property taxes on a $100,000 home are between $500 - 3,000 annually.

While there are a ton of mortgage options, I've never heard of one that is based on the future market value of the home.

Typically, you borrow X amount of money - up to 80% or 90% of the home's purchase price - and repay the principal of the loan over a scheduled repayment period...usually 20 or 30 years - while interest is being charged at either a fixed percentage rate or an 'adjustable' rate which is indexed to some other well-know rate (like the Prime rate, for example, the percentage rate that banks charge each other).

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
This has more to do with engineering, management, and suppliers than it does with the folks who do the assembly work. If it weren't true, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mercedes, and BMW wouldn't have factories on US soil. Those factories are here for economic reasons as well. VW/Audi is considering building a US factory because the weakening dollar is killing their ability to be profitable.

Toyota opened (as the first Japanese car manufacturer) a factory, because the US (it was in 1983) begged Japan to. It was when Japan reached it's peak, the US car industry couldn't keep up in terms of quality and costs. So they imported the Toyota Production System in a joint-venture between GM and Toyota.

Mercedes (aka Daimler Chrysler) bought Chrysler, so they have lots of American factories now. Jokes aside, that's part of globalization.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Property value gets re-assessed by the local government in order to determine its property tax. So, if your house increases in value during ownership your taxes may increase, as well. Typically, property taxes on a $100,000 home are between $500 - 3,000 annually.

While there are a ton of mortgage options, I've never heard of one that is based on the future market value of the home.

Typically, you borrow X amount of money - up to 80% or 90% of the home's purchase price - and repay the principal of the loan over a scheduled repayment period...usually 20 or 30 years - while interest is being charged at either a fixed percentage rate or an 'adjustable' rate which is indexed to some other well-know rate (like the Prime rate, for example, the percentage rate that banks charge each other).

Maybe I didn't state this clear enough: the special thing is that Americans apparently can spend the delta for other things whereas in Germany (and many other countries) you cannot.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Scifience:
We also can't compete with other countries in terms of quality. Take cars, for instance. Sure, we make them, and we even made the modern car first, but other countries now do it better.

I'll hazard a guess that cars are the only items with which you don't compete in terms of quality (even though it's only actually specific areas of cars - like interiors and shut lines - which aren't up to scratch).

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
In Germany, when you apply for a loan to buy a house for instance, then the value of the house remains fixed, say 100, for as long as you owe the bank money.

In America, it seems to be that the value of the house is not fixed. If the house is worth 100 in the beginning, you apply for a credit for 100. After -- say -- five years, the market value of your house decreases to 90, you have an additional 10 to spend (on a car for instance).

I'm not 100 % sure if I got everything right (as his explanation took about 45 minutes) and I'm no expert on banks and all that.

Then, according to this guy (my sister's bf), a lot of real estate is undervalued, so when the value has to be corrected (upwards), there is a lot less money to spend. The US economy is very much dependent on domestic demand (unlike Germany, for example). In addition to that, when the interest rate of the fed is increased (well, it can't get any lower than this), it's harder to get a credit as well.

His employer (one of the two biggest banks in Germany) is already taking the necessary steps to change their strategy accordingly, i. e. investing somewhere else (e. g. China).

I don't follow this. In the US, the property value is determined by the free market. How you finance the purchase is a separate question. The property value should be the same if you pay cash as if you obtain a 100% mortgage.

In practice, most people finance their homes, traditionally, by borrowing 80% of the cost to finance, and putting down 20% themselves (there are variations on this). The loan is then amortized over the life of the loan. So for example, it might be paid off over 30 years. Amortization consists of interest and principal, but in the early years, the payment is mostly interest, very little principal. Over time, that reverses so that in the later years the principal exceeds the interest paid monthly. Interest is deductible from taxes, but principal is not.

As principal is paid off, the owner gains equity. Equity is the value of the property over the value of the loan. If the house is sold before the loan is paid off, the lender is paid first, and any excess belongs to the owner.

Most US mortgages have fixed interest rates, which means that the payment remains mostly fixed for the life of the loan (except for property taxes). Because of inflation, that makes the monthly payment appear to become progressively cheaper. Some mortgage loans have variable interest rates. Typically, those are adjusted periodically. In the current market, those are a bad idea because interest rates are low. In times when the interest rate is high, people might gamble on an adjustable rate mortgage, hoping that the rate will go down.

House prices tend to appreciate over time for market reasons. But that isn't guaranteed, and in some markets, house prices can go down. The current house value has no effect on the loan payments.

That's a thumbnail sketch of how residential lending is done. Because it is all domestic and all carried out in one currency, I don't see how international exchange rates have any effect whatsoever.

[Skip Breakfast]

Guitars

YES!!! I agree. American guitars are best. PERIOD.

[Spliffdaddy]

More and more people tend to refinance their homes or obtain 2nd mortgages in order to access the equity. This works if you have a house that is worth substantially more than the mortgage debt.

It's not thought of as a good idea to borrow against your home. Especially if the goal is to pay off 'unsecured' credit debt. But that doesn't stop people from doing it.

Maybe that's the difference between the US and some other countries. I dunno. The fact that our lenders have a wide variety of options available - not all of which are financially sound, from a homeowner's perspective.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
More and more people tend to refinance their homes or obtain 2nd mortgages in order to access the equity. This works if you have a house that is worth substantially more than the mortgage debt.

It's not thought of as a good idea to borrow against your home. Especially if the goal is to pay off 'unsecured' credit debt. But that doesn't stop people from doing it.

Maybe that's the difference between the US and some other countries. I dunno. The fact that our lenders have a wide variety of options available - not all of which are financially sound, from a homeowner's perspective.

This is absolutely correct. But I still don't see the connection to international exchange rates. From what I understood of Oreocookie's banker friend, he's worrying that US interest rates are going up. That's probably true given that they are at post-war lows right now. But again, that isn't driven by the dollar value (though it may partly be the converse).

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
This is absolutely correct. But I still don't see the connection to international exchange rates.

I don't get it either.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
This is absolutely correct. But I still don't see the connection to international exchange rates. From what I understood of Oreocookie's banker friend, he's worrying that US interest rates are going up. That's probably true given that they are at post-war lows right now. But again, that isn't driven by the dollar value (though it may partly be the converse).

The point is that according to him, his bank thinks that most real estate in the US is undervalued and has soon to be corrected upwards. This would have an impact on domestic consumption and that in turn on the US economy, the value of the dollar decreases further.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
The point is that according to him, his bank thinks that most real estate in the US is undervalued and has soon to be corrected upwards. This would have an impact on domestic consumption.

But it doesn't. Interest rates for those on variable rates, yes. Property valuation increases, no.

In the UK, we're seeing some negative effects of property price rises (in that property values are now so high that many people can't afford to buy or have to severely cut their spending in other areas), but this probably doesn't apply to the US as their huge surplus of land sees them with a fair way to go before they run into supply/demand problems.

But this still won't affect the ability of US manufacturing to pummel Europe into the ground and consequently maintain their employment levels.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
But it doesn't. Interest rates for those on variable rates, yes. Property valuation increases, no.

In the UK, we're seeing some negative effects of property price rises (in that property values are now so high that many people can't afford to buy or have to severely cut their spending in other areas), but this probably doesn't apply to the US as their huge surplus of land sees them with a fair way to go before they run into supply/demand problems.

But this still won't affect the ability of US manufacturing to pummel Europe into the ground and consequently maintain their employment levels.

His employer thinks it does. I'm not going to argue, because I'm not in the bank business. But it's business, not politics here. Banks are international businesses, so it's not something German or European here.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
His employer thinks it does. I'm not going to argue, because I'm not in the bank business. But it's business, not politics here. Banks are international businesses, so it's not something German or European here.

If you can, get him to explain it to us. I, for one, would be very interested in what the score is with this.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
The point is that according to him, his bank thinks that most real estate in the US is undervalued and has soon to be corrected upwards. This would have an impact on domestic consumption and that in turn on the US economy, the value of the dollar decreases further.

Are you sure that he didn't say overvalued? The US has been experiencing a property boom. For example, here in the DC area, it is getting hard for middle class people to afford a single family home with a reasonable commuting distance to the city. Residential housing values in the area have more than doubled in the past five years and are still going up. I know a lot of people who are concerned that there could be a correction downwards. You are the first to suggest one upwards.

Property appreciation tends to fuel consumer spending. When people see their homes appreciate 10 or 20% in one year, they feel flush. People often sell to cash in on the equity, or as Spliffdaddy said, they borrow against it. This real estate boom began in the 1990s, the previous one was in the 1980s. The boom in the 1980s was followed by a huge commercial real estate bust in the early 1990s. But that was associated mostly with a large scale overbuilding problem.

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by wataru:
Here are some of my favorites: Do As Infinity, the brilliant green, ACO, m-flo, Halcali, Utada Hikaru (not her latest release under the name "UTADA"), Shiina Ringo, Misia, Cocco (not to be confused with CoCo)

Avoid anything by "[blank] musume" or any of the flavor-of-the-month idols that try their hand at singing. The problem is that if you're not familiar with the scene, it can be hard to weed out the bad ones.

[blank] = Morning .... Morning Masume ... eww

Do As Infinity, brilliant green, Utada Hikaru, Ayumi Hamasaki...good stuff
Not too familiar with the others.

What do you guys think of Namie Amuro (or Amuro, Namie for some of you folks out there)

I started listening to her jpop since I was a early teenager. It's her stuff that got me to start listening to jpop. Her early stuff is really teeny-bopperish .. but I think her music has grown up a little bit since then. Not sure if it's your thing tho ..

OH YEAH .. What about Luna-Sea and B'z?

Side note. Utada (the english release) was horrible... ai ya.


wierd thing is, before the release of her english album, i heard a few songs by her in english that sounded good. what happend?

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by tonton:
Ergo. Therefore. Thus...

Ai Ya .. return of the retarded southern colonel dude from the Matrix Revolutions .. feh

[Scifience]

Originally posted by Lancer409:
What do you guys think of Namie Amuro (or Amuro, Namie for some of you folks out there)

OH YEAH .. What about Luna-Sea and B'z?

I've haven't listened to too much Amuro Namie () stuff but have liked the few songs I've heard, though not as much as some of the other artists I mentioned above.

I've never heard of Luna-Sea before right now. I'll look it up. I've heard of B'z, but never actually listened to any of it.

Side note. Utada (the english release) was horrible... ai ya.

wierd thing is, before the release of her english album, i heard a few songs by her in english that sounded good. what happend?

I think she was trying to appeal more to the American market or something. No clue, but for whatever reason, it turned out much worse than her Japanese stuff. A lot of her Japanese songs have English thrown in, but in that typical Japanese way in which it makes no sense whatsoever. I've never heard an entire song of hers in English before, though (aside from her American album, that is).

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by Scifience:
I've haven't listened to too much Amuro Namie () stuff but have liked the few songs I've heard, though not as much as some of the other artists I mentioned above.

I've never heard of Luna-Sea before right now. I'll look it up. I've heard of B'z, but never actually listened to any of it.



I think she was trying to appeal more to the American market or something. No clue, but for whatever reason, it turned out much worse than her Japanese stuff. A lot of her Japanese songs have English thrown in, but in that typical Japanese way in which it makes no sense whatsoever. I've never heard an entire song of hers in English before, though (aside from her American album, that is).

I really like Amuro's sound in her past 2 or 3 albums. silkier .. more R and B'ish ...

Utada sang Close to you, and also had that one track for Rush Hour 2 (the movie) with foxie brown.

[Scifience]

Originally posted by Lancer409:
I really like Amuro's sound in her past 2 or 3 albums. silkier .. more R and B'ish ...

Utada sang Close to you, and also had that one track for Rush Hour 2 (the movie) with foxie brown.

Forgot about Close to you, and wasn't aware that she had done a track for Rush Hour 2.

Thanks for refreshing my memory!

[wataru]

Originally posted by Lancer409:
[blank] = Morning .... Morning Masume ... eww

No, there are other "Musume" groups out there too; Morning Musume just happens to be the most successful.

Do As Infinity, brilliant green, Utada Hikaru, Ayumi Hamasaki...good stuff
Not too familiar with the others.

The others are a bit more obscure, but definitely good stuff.

What do you guys think of Namie Amuro (or Amuro, Namie for some of you folks out there)

I started listening to her jpop since I was a early teenager. It's her stuff that got me to start listening to jpop. Her early stuff is really teeny-bopperish .. but I think her music has grown up a little bit since then. Not sure if it's your thing tho ..

I think her stuff is generally pretty awful. She uses English gratuitously, and all of her songs (at least lately) have been obnoxious R&B-style numbers that are really only designed to show off her (poor) dancing skills.

OH YEAH .. What about Luna-Sea and B'z?

I find the male bands to be much more obnoxious than the ones with female lead singers, so I can't comment, except to say that I'm not that familiar with them.

Side note. Utada (the english release) was horrible... ai ya.

wierd thing is, before the release of her english album, i heard a few songs by her in english that sounded good. what happend?

She's trying to break into the American market, plain and simple. She threw away a streak of several good albums to make one that is absolute, unadulterated crap in the hopes of making it big overseas. If you actually listen to the lyrics of many of the songs, they're downright embarassing. Her manager (or her label, or just her) must have lost his mind, letting her put out such garbage. (Read a longer rant here.)

[drive-thru]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Oh, and some computer goodies. With fuirty logos on them (doesn't matter that they not built in the US, as long as the US owner profits from the sale - as explained to everyone in the UK by Mr Dyson a few weeks back).

That lecture was great. The text version can be found at:
"Engineering The Difference by James Dyson"

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Are you sure that he didn't say overvalued? The US has been experiencing a property boom. For example, here in the DC area, it is getting hard for middle class people to afford a single family home with a reasonable commuting distance to the city. Residential housing values in the area have more than doubled in the past five years and are still going up. I know a lot of people who are concerned that there could be a correction downwards. You are the first to suggest one upwards.

Property appreciation tends to fuel consumer spending. When people see their homes appreciate 10 or 20% in one year, they feel flush. People often sell to cash in on the equity, or as Spliffdaddy said, they borrow against it. This real estate boom began in the 1990s, the previous one was in the 1980s. The boom in the 1980s was followed by a huge commercial real estate bust in the early 1990s. But that was associated mostly with a large scale overbuilding problem.

As I said, I'm no expert on this, I was just `repeating' this (interesting) point, because I haven't heard about that anywhere in the news.

Whether or not to believe it/take it seriously/whatever, is up to you. All I know, it's part of the corporate strategy of a big bank.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
As I said, I'm no expert on this, I was just `repeating' this (interesting) point, because I haven't heard about that anywhere in the news.

Whether or not to believe it/take it seriously/whatever, is up to you. All I know, it's part of the corporate strategy of a big bank.

Did you clarify with him that he said undervalued, not overvalued? Respectfully, I think you misheard him. Either that, or his concerns are 180 degrees off from real estate professionals in this country, which would be kind of bizarre.

I say that because I just took a class in real estate law with two of them who practice in the field. Unless I misunderstood the class badly (possible, I haven't got the grade yet!), I'd say that undervaluation isn't remotely on anyone's horizons as a problem. But overvaluation definitely is.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Did you clarify with him that he said undervalued, not overvalued? Respectfully, I think you misheard him. Either that, or his concerns are 180 degrees off from real estate professionals in this country, which would be kind of bizarre.

I say that because I just took a class in real estate law with two of them who practice in the field. Unless I misunderstood the class badly (possible, I haven't got the grade yet!), I'd say that undervaluation isn't remotely on anyone's horizons as a problem. But overvaluation definitely is.

Well, it was a 45-minute explanation in a field I'm not familiar with. But I'm sure about the end-result: the real estate market will further weaken the dollar in about 1.5-2 years from now he said (his conclusion, or rather that, of the bank). Maybe I switched over and under, but the problem related to the way the American credit system is supposed to work.

(Good luck for your exam, BTW.)

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Well, it was a 45-minute explanation in a field I'm not familiar with. But I'm sure about the end-result: the real estate market will further weaken the dollar in about 1.5-2 years from now he said (his conclusion, or rather that, of the bank). Maybe I switched over and under, but the problem related to the way the American credit system is supposed to work.

(Good luck for your exam, BTW.)

Thanks, I may need it. That was an ugly exam.

On real estate investment. I don't know what the percentage of the balance of trade is of foreign investment in real estate. If it is significant, and if that investment dries up and switches to other countries -- because, for example, of a fear that values will drop -- then I could see that affecting the Dollar. When you buy investments in US assets, you buy dollars to buy the asset. That raises the value of the Dollar. If you sell Dollar-denominated assets, the currency value drops. That's basic international finance (which, admittedly, I haven't studied in several years).

However, that's the effect of real estate valutation on investments leading to an effect on the Dollar exchange rate. Your postulated the Dollar exchange rate affecting real estate valuation, and consequently affecting consumer spending. I don't see that at all.

In particular, you talked about residential real estate and an effect on consumer spending. I don't think that foreign investors play much of a role in that market. Residential real estate is bought by residents. The loans can be sold on a secondary market, but that doesn't affect real estate values. More likely your banker was talking about commercial real estate.

If he really thought that commercial real estate was severely undervalued, and about to correct upwards, he'd want to be part of that correction. You invest in an asset in order to get appreciation. The logical thing to do in an undervalued market is to buy, not sell.

In addition, a soft Dollar encourages holders of harder currencies to buy US Dollar denominated assets. A soft Dollar makes all US goods cheaper to foreigners, including real estate. But that might not be enough to offset perceptions of risk if they really do think those investments will tank.

So yes, I think he was talking about overvaluation, not undervaluation. And I think he was talking about commercial real estate, not residential. Either that, or his ideas about investment are quite different from mine. And since one of us has a grade outstanding, I'd prefer not to think that is the case!

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Thanks, I may need it. That was an ugly exam.

...

In particular, you talked about residential real estate and an effect on consumer spending. I don't think that foreign investors play much of a role in that market. Residential real estate is bought by residents. The loans can be sold on a secondary market, but that doesn't affect real estate values. More likely your banker was talking about commercial real estate.

If he really thought that commercial real estate was severely undervalued, and about to correct upwards, he'd want to be part of that correction. You invest in an asset in order to get appreciation. The logical thing to do in an undervalued market is to buy, not sell.

...

I know that he was referring to commercial real estate mainly, but I think it was easier to explain this way.

[Randman]

Originally posted by wataru:
She's trying to break into the American market, plain and simple. She threw away a streak of several good albums to make one that is absolute, unadulterated crap in the hopes of making it big overseas. If you actually listen to the lyrics of many of the songs, they're downright embarassing.

What?! You don't think eazy-peazy-Japaneasy wasn't Shakespearean?

[wataru]

Originally posted by Randman:
What?! You don't think eazy-peazy-Japaneasy wasn't Shakespearean?

That's not even the worst of it. Try Let Me Give You My Love, where she says "Can you and I start mixing gene pools? Eastern, Western..." or The Workout where she says "I was dancing with a dirty blind Texan" (unfortunately, that's not in the iTMS preview) or You Make Me Want To Be A Man, which needs no explanation. I honestly don't know what she's thinking. Maybe she's on drugs or something.

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by Randman:
What?! You don't think eazy-peazy-Japaneasy wasn't Shakespearean?

i borrowed that album, and havent done more than breeze through 2 songs, before semi giving up on it. havent worked up the patience to give it a fair shake .. but i dont think i will need to. i usually like her stuff. after hearing a bit of it, i looked at the cover (ok .. japanese chick .. it says utada ... i cant find the last name ... is this the same #$%^H?) what happened .. ugh ....


she must be surrounded by "yes folk" .. lol

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
I know that he was referring to commercial real estate mainly, but I think it was easier to explain this way.

OK, but the commercial and residential real estate markets aren't the same at all and there is no connection that I can see to exchange rates and the value of residential real estate.

[wataru]

Originally posted by Lancer409:
i borrowed that album, and havent done more than breeze through 2 songs, before semi giving up on it. havent worked up the patience to give it a fair shake .. but i dont think i will need to. i usually like her stuff. after hearing a bit of it, i looked at the cover (ok .. japanese chick .. it says utada ... i cant find the last name ... is this the same #$%^H?) what happened .. ugh ....


she must be surrounded by "yes folk" .. lol

Don't waste your time. This album is nothing like her previous albums.

And Utada is her last name.

[Randman]

Originally posted by wataru:
Utada is her last name.

Last name or surname?

[wataru]

Originally posted by Randman:
Last name or surname?

What's the difference? Just because another language orders the name differently doesn't change the accepted meaning of "last name."

Put another way, it's her family name. Her first (given) name is Hikaru.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by wataru:
What's the difference? Just because another language orders the name differently doesn't change the accepted meaning of "last name."

Put another way, it's her family name. Her first (given) name is Hikaru.

Can Hikaru be used for both males and females?

[wataru]

Originally posted by Person Man:
Can Hikaru be used for both males and females?

No, I'm pretty sure it's female only.

[Lancer409]

sorry wataru. i'm chinese... we got the same naming system. how the hell did i let that slip by me? Yet, i dont have the problem with namie amuro. *shrug* ... ugh .. horrible album, i listened to a bit more ... what the hell. Doesnt she speak perfect (or damn close) english? How did she fudge the lyrics? I mean, she comprehends 'em right?

That being said, "last" name can mean a lot of things.

ie. Sean "Puffy" Combs. Combs is his "last" name.

then again, his "last" name is P Diddy, until he changes his name. When he changes it, P Diddy will be a previous name, Puffy Daddy will be his first name, and whatever he comes up with next with be his "last" name. (as in, that's the LAST name he came up with.

[wataru]

Originally posted by Lancer409:
sorry wataru. i'm chinese... we got the same naming system. how the hell did i let that slip by me? Yet, i dont have the problem with namie amuro. *shrug* ... ugh .. horrible album, i listened to a bit more ... what the hell. Doesnt she speak perfect (or damn close) english? How did she fudge the lyrics? I mean, she comprehends 'em right?

That being said, "last" name can mean a lot of things.

ie. Sean "Puffy" Combs. Combs is his "last" name.

then again, his "last" name is P Diddy, until he changes his name. When he changes it, P Diddy will be a previous name, Puffy Daddy will be his first name, and whatever he comes up with next with be his "last" name. (as in, that's the LAST name he came up with.

Don't sweat it. She's confusing because even non-Japanese speakers call her "Utada Hikaru," unlike, for instance, Amuro Namie, who you just called "Namie Amuro." In general, I think Westerners need to pick a frickin' naming scheme and stick with it, i.e. either always use the first-last order, or follow the order used by the original language. Japanese uses the latter scheme, so for instance John Smith is still John Smith, but 周星驰 is also still 周星驰. I think that works out pretty well.

Yes, her English is either native or close to it. She must know what she's singing, and I think she actually writes all or most of her lyrics so she really has no excuse. Maybe she's brain-damaged.

The meaning of "last name" does not change unless you purposely obfuscate it by playing with the meaning of "last." In your example, the natural way to refer to those names would be "current name" = P Diddy, "previous name" = Puff Daddy," and "original (or legal, true, etc.) name" = Sean Combs. "Last name" would never refer to his current name; consider the phrase "last weekend"--even during the current weekend, last = previous. Something is not "last" until it is no longer "current." Maybe if he dies then P Diddy would be his "last" (as in "final") name.

In any case, the only time this should be confusing would be in the case of poor or deliberately unclear wording.

[mrtew]

Originally posted by Secret__Police:
Just what do we make in the USA anymore?? Do we make anything anymore?

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
We make thousands of products in the USA (cars, motorcycles, washers, dryers, toilets, etc. etc., we just can't compete with China (and various other countries) in manual labor intensive products.

Well, cars are about the most labor intensive thing to make that most people will ever buy. And we make millions of them here every year. Most cars sold in this country by far are made here... even most 'Japanese' cars are actually made here. And if you've ever lived in the midwest or the south I'm sure you know that a ton of other stuff is too. It's people living in NYC or LA that think this country is just one big import dock.

Originally posted by Big Mac:
How many recall in 2001 calls on the administration to take steps to weaken the dollar artificially? How times do change.

Yeah, half the people complain when it goes up, and the other half complain when it goes down. Same with interest rates, stocks, price of gold, whatever, and the rich just make money on it either way. I think it's a game played with the lives of ordinary pawns.... uh...people.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by wataru:
Don't sweat it. She's confusing because even non-Japanese speakers call her "Utada Hikaru," unlike, for instance, Amuro Namie, who you just called "Namie Amuro." In general, I think Westerners need to pick a frickin' naming scheme and stick with it, i.e. either always use the first-last order, or follow the order used by the original language. Japanese uses the latter scheme, so for instance John Smith is still John Smith, but 周星驰 is also still 周星驰. I think that works out pretty well.

Yes, her English is either native or close to it. She must know what she's singing, and I think she actually writes all or most of her lyrics so she really has no excuse. Maybe she's brain-damaged.

The meaning of "last name" does not change unless you purposely obfuscate it by playing with the meaning of "last." In your example, the natural way to refer to those names would be "current name" = P Diddy, "previous name" = Puff Daddy," and "original (or legal, true, etc.) name" = Sean Combs. "Last name" would never refer to his current name; consider the phrase "last weekend"--even during the current weekend, last = previous. Something is not "last" until it is no longer "current." Maybe if he dies then P Diddy would be his "last" (as in "final") name.

In any case, the only time this should be confusing would be in the case of poor or deliberately unclear wording.

Most authors of books on Japan/Japanese history stick to the following scheme: Westerners (as in non-Asians): first name last name. Japanese, other Asians: last name first name.