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Spheric Harlot · Feb 13, 2009, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by klb5090

Really it just looks like they designed a decent looking spoiler and some guy just measured wrong...

comes to mind...

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2009, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Shaddim, do you acknowledge that the term musclecar came about from Novas and 'Cudas and Chargers and such? Just want to make sure we're on a similar page. Because that's where it started, and the meaning hasn't changed much.

I agree with that, but actually it was even before. Let me tell you where I started. My relatives used to run shine in a 400hp `46 Ford, in a very real way they were the founders of the American muscle car movement. They did it out of necessity, you don't make any money if the law catches you. Some of my earliest memories were of taking rides with my great-uncle in his "Batmobile", which is what it looked like to me... a heavily modified jet black 1964 GTO that was so fast, he'd place a $20 on the dash and tell you that you could keep it if you could reach up and grab it while he was accelerating. I don't think anyone ever got that bill.

Very few modern muscle cars exist, most are just hunks of plastic without any image or soul. Sure, they're fine transportation, and a few are probably even faster than my cousin's Goat (he owns it now), but they don't stir your pulse in the same way. The exception from Ford is the GT, it's one hell of a car. I may buy one myself one day, I'm sure there are quite a few that will pop up on the used market.

Personally, I like a comfortable ride with crazy handling, and my car delivers that quite well. With a computer adjustment it does 0-60 in 4.5, and the quarter in 11.8, which isn't shabby. After I upgrade the exhaust and swap in some carbon fiber, to remove a bit more weight, it should be quicker and a little more nimble. Really though, I wouldn't call any "M" a muscle car, that isn't their identity. They're just really fast touring cars.

Doofy · Feb 13, 2009, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Muscle cars are exactly what Laminar said. Also though, I'd include most V8+ powered RWD coupes. Vette, Ford GT, Pantera, Viper, 599GTB(!), and such. I think they're musclecars inherently

No.

No no, no no, no no no.

Grand tourers are not muscle cars. They're two different design concepts. One is for getting from one set of traffic lights to the next really quickly, the other is for crossing continents when your Gulfstream is broken.

Laminar · Feb 13, 2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Muscle cars are exactly what Laminar said. Also though, I'd include most V8+ powered RWD coupes. Vette, Ford GT, Pantera, Viper, 599GTB(!), and such. I think they're musclecars inherently because they're raucous powerful machines that can lay hundreds of feet of matching black rubber strips at the tip of your right foot. I've been seen often down by the lake pondering whether the newest V8 M3 is a musclecar. It may be.

I always figured muscle cars were at least 2+2 seating, so Corvettes, Vipers, etc. were considered sports cars. But if the Viper doesn't have muscle, then nothing else does.

angelmb · Feb 13, 2009, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

I would freakin love to have a CTS-V. I saw one the other day, glossy black. Definitely stood out from the rest.

I saw one here in Spain, a 'mere' CTS… but it caught my eye, I don't think the Taurus would stand out that way.

IceEnclosure · Feb 13, 2009, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

No.

No no, no no, no no no.

Grand tourers are not muscle cars. They're two different design concepts. One is for getting from one set of traffic lights to the next really quickly, the other is for crossing continents when your Gulfstream is broken.

I was talking a litle bit of smack on that, but hey - the thing has 600+HP from the factory. That's muscle.

Also, I doubt anyone is crossing the continent in the 599GTB when their Gulfstream is broken.
I see them tooling around town all day long.

IceEnclosure · Feb 13, 2009, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

I always figured muscle cars were at least 2+2 seating, so Corvettes, Vipers, etc. were considered sports cars. But if the Viper doesn't have muscle, then nothing else does.

A Miata is also a sports car though. A Miata with a 5.0L under the hood is now a musclecar.

I'd call a Viper and or Vette a sports car, a supercar beater, and a modern musclecar. It's American, V8, RWD, and can make a girlfriend NEVER want to get in your car again.

The Dodge SRT cars, musclecars? I say yea. Recent GTO? Yeah. etc etc

The main thing differing the old musclecars from new, modern versions, TO ME, is that technology has moved along and extremely ill handling is all but gone. Even 4000lb Challengers handle okay, and they're out in the various classes racing now too(saw them in the Koni Grand Sport series)!

Oops, Edmunds calls 'em muscle cars!:

http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/01/...r-charity.html

Laminar · Feb 13, 2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

A Miata is also a sports car though. A Miata with a 5.0L under the hood is now a musclecar.

I'd call a Viper and or Vette a sports car, a supercar beater, and a modern musclecar. It's American, V8, RWD, and can make a girlfriend NEVER want to get in your car again.

My girlfriend already prefers we take her car places...

The Dodge SRT cars, musclecars? I say yea. Recent GTO? Yeah. etc etc

The main thing differing the old musclecars from new, modern versions, TO ME, is that technology has moved along and extremely ill handling is all but gone. Even 4000lb Challengers handle okay, and they're out in the various classes racing now too(saw them in the Koni Grand Sport series)!

Is the G8 a muscle car?

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

A Miata is also a sports car though. A Miata with a 5.0L under the hood is now a musclecar.

Wow, when did this start happening?

Originally Posted by Laminar

My girlfriend already prefers we take her car places...

...and what does she drive?

IceEnclosure · Feb 13, 2009, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

My girlfriend already prefers we take her car places...

I mean after one ride.

Is the G8 a muscle car?

Sure, probably more so the G8 GT. Go take one for a test drive, nice ride.

By the way, the G8 GT was the pace car for the Rolex 24 I attended a couple of weeks ago.

I think as the automotive landscape evolves, more cars need to be added to the "musclecar list". The 5.0 Stang joined the list in 1987.

Dakar, there's kits to drop a Ford 5.0L or Chevy LS1/LS2 motor in a Miata. Look on youtube or car video sites for these cars. Nice sound coming out of a little car like that.

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Dakar, there's kits to drop a Ford 5.0L or Chevy LS1/LS2 motor in a Miata. Look on youtube or car video sites for these cars. Nice sound coming out of little car like that.

Sorry, reading comprehension. I thought you were saying they shipped like that.

(But since Miata's aren't American they still wouldn't be muscles cars, IMO)

Laminar · Feb 13, 2009, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

...and what does she drive?

'07 Focus.

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

I mean after one ride.

Well for my car, there was "before 3.0" and "after 3.0." Two different cars.

Sure, probably more so the G8 GT. Go take one for a test drive, nice ride.

I guess I was wondering if you thought a 4-door car could be a muscle car.

Dakar, there's kits to drop a Ford 5.0L or Chevy LS1/LS2 motor in a Miata. Look on youtube or car video sites for these cars. Nice sound coming out of a little car like that.

Or you could just do this...

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

'07 Focus.

How original. Why does she prefer her car anyway? Because you drive more aggressively in yours?

Laminar · Feb 13, 2009, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

How original. Why does she prefer her car anyway? Because you drive more aggressively in yours?

Yeah. Mine's louder, rougher, and way more fun. And louder.

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 03:11 PM

Buy her a cute pair of pink earplugs.

IceEnclosure · Feb 13, 2009, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

(But since Miata's aren't American they still wouldn't be muscles cars, IMO)

Is an AC Cobra a musclecar?

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Is an AC Cobra a musclecar?

Don't go bringing good points into this.

I think the only wiggle room I have is Shelby is an American.

ctt1wbw · Feb 13, 2009, 03:49 PM

Steve Saleen is American. Seen his Saleen S-7? That's a nice little grocery-getter.

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 03:52 PM

More of a Super car.

ctt1wbw · Feb 13, 2009, 03:55 PM

Yeah, but it has muscle. So it could be both a super- and a muscle-car? They're cheap. I got two last month.

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 03:57 PM

Super > Muscle. It's not both, it's better.

d4nth3m4n · Feb 13, 2009, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Don't go bringing good points into this.

I think the only wiggle room I have is Shelby is an American.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Ace

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 04:06 PM

Ok, I'll amend it to American or British.

Someone had to speak english!!!1!

(Let's see what curve ball you guys throw me now)

Laminar · Feb 13, 2009, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Is an AC Cobra a musclecar?

Going by the strict definition of at least 2+2 seating, no.

Originally Posted by d4nth3m4n

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Ace

It wasn't musclecar material until Shelby put the 289 into it.

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Going by the strict definition of at least 2+2 seating, no.

Did anyone agree with you on that point?

IceEnclosure · Feb 13, 2009, 04:15 PM

I, as a dude, include more cars in the musclecar world than just 2+2s.

I'm going to go get my oil changed right now. That means a visit to the 700HP TT Vette. I'll ask him if his car is a musclecar. He'll probably say it's a supercar whooper.

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

I, as a dude, include more cars in the musclecar world than just 2+2s.

I think I agree.

ctt1wbw · Feb 13, 2009, 04:29 PM

Someone help me out here. What the hell is a 2+2? Is that a coupe, which is a two door? Or what? I have always used the terms coupe and sedan.

And would the Mercedes C63 AMG or CLS 55 AMG be musclecars, even though they are sedans?

d4nth3m4n · Feb 13, 2009, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

It wasn't musclecar material until Shelby put the 289 into it.

kinda like a miata before you stuff a 4.6 in there?

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2009, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Someone help me out here. What the hell is a 2+2? Is that a coupe, which is a two door? Or what? I have always used the terms coupe and sedan.

2+2. 2 seats in the front, 2 seats in the back.

Doofy · Feb 13, 2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Someone help me out here. What the hell is a 2+2?

Two seats in the front. Two small seats in the back (usually only suitable for kids or amputees).

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 04:56 PM

2+2. 2 wheels in the front. 2 wheels in the back.

Laminar · Feb 13, 2009, 05:07 PM

2+2. 2 speakers in the front. 2 speakers in the back.

Dakar V · Feb 13, 2009, 05:12 PM

2+2. 2 hookers in the back. 2 hookers in the trunk.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2009, 05:13 PM

and it isn't a sedan, it's a saloon.

Maybe I watch too much Top Gear, who knows?

Laminar · Feb 13, 2009, 06:01 PM

Enjoy your coo-pay...err...coupé.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2009, 08:12 PM

Gotta love Jeremy Clarkson. If nothing else, he's very entertaining.

Laminar · Feb 13, 2009, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Gotta love Jeremy Clarkson. If nothing else, he's very entertaining.

Yeah, I'd say there's nothing else to him.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2009, 10:15 PM

I think he's great. Most of his comments are made just to incite irritation, and he's likely one of the most non-PC people on television.

As for cars, I'd never choose one that he believes to be "rubbish", he has a very keen eye and usually his tastes mirror my own. One day I'll likely purchase an Alfa just to see what the ruckus is all about (and so I can call myself a "true" petrolhead).

imitchellg5 · Feb 14, 2009, 01:40 PM

I generally agree with Jezza. He has some great points. I would love an Alfa as well. But seeing as I'm in America, that's not gonna happen. I love the SHO. It's the ultimate Q-ship I think.

ctt1wbw · Feb 14, 2009, 02:51 PM

Sorry, but British tv shows like that make me want to vomit. It reminds me of that retard who sells all that crap on tv. I can't watch that tv show you guys are talking about.

Laminar · Feb 14, 2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

It reminds me of that retard who sells all that crap on tv.

I HATE HIM TOO!all caps

Laminar · Feb 14, 2009, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

I generally agree with Jezza. He has some great points. I would love an Alfa as well. But seeing as I'm in America, that's not gonna happen. I love the SHO. It's the ultimate Q-ship I think.

My friend's dad has one of these:

angelmb · Feb 14, 2009, 04:07 PM

Alfa GTV, the V6 model maybe?, Isn't Alfa returning to the States?, you may get some beautiful cars like the 159, MiTo, Brera & Spider…

Laminar · Feb 14, 2009, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Alfa GTV, the V6 model maybe?

Correct.

Shaddim · Feb 14, 2009, 10:01 PM

Mmmmm, AR Spider w/ 3.2L V6. I'd buy one of those in a heartbeat.

klb5090 · Feb 17, 2009, 02:45 PM

Reading autoblog i saw the new Fusion Sport, and truthfully it is styled much better IMO that the new SHO, i think this car deserves the HP and motor of the SHO.

ctt1wbw · Feb 17, 2009, 03:14 PM

That's American trash. The Honda Civic Si is clearly a better car.

Laminar · Feb 17, 2009, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by klb5090

Reading autoblog i saw the new Fusion Sport, and truthfully it is styled much better IMO that the new SHO, i think this car deserves the HP and motor of the SHO.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....ge_opt_opt.jpg

Absolutely. Couple the new Fusion with AWD, the EcoBoost, and a 6 speed manual, and it would kill the G8 GT, IS-F, and would almost be on par with the Audi RS4.

klb5090 · Feb 17, 2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

That's American trash. The Honda Civic Si is clearly a better car.

nah you got it all wrong, that dodge durango is where its at!

ok i'm done