[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:

I have to wonder aloud again: do conservatives have this same dilemma? Maybe it's because I don't pay close enough attention, but it still seems to me that the right is far more laid back about voting for the guy who comes closest to holding their views, without all this handwringing about the lesser of two evils. The belief in the "ideologically pure" vote seems stronger on the left than the right. But who knows�the way Bush is dividing fiscal and social conservatives in the GOP, maybe some Republicans will be holding their noses come November.

Good question. I guess we saw some of that in 2000 with McCain vs. Bush. And we all know what happened with Gore and Nader. I have no doubt that Bush will get every Republican vote this time around though. I can't see any crossovers to Kerry.

My candidate doesn't have to be 'ideologically pure'. He (or she) has to least be in the ballpark on the issues, be a capable, articulate spokesman for their positions, and appear to be a principled individual. I guess candidates like that only come around in a generation or so. JFK for the Dem's and Reagan for the GOP were the best examples. Dean filled two of those criteria for me. The other candidates....meh, I just don't see it yet. Maybe my bullsh*t meter is too sensitive. I don't know.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Yeah, it's a tricky one. The best suggestion I've heard is regional primaries - Northwest, Southeast, Northeast, Southwest, etc.,. Of course that eliminates the traditional NH and Iowa elections but I don't care. I don't think Iowa and NH are representative of the whole US anyway. That's true whether you're a Democrat or Republican.

Te bottom line is I, and most voters in the country, have very little choice in who are the candidates for the Presidency. I find it extremely frustrating but maybe I'm alone. Once again I have a candidate who i had no choice in selecting and no little about because he wasn't forced to campaign in my state. Wasn't the former Soviet Union's 'elections' run this way? Here's the Party's candidate, vote yes or don't vote. It doesn't matter.

(1) Cool idea on the regional thing. The problem would be that the candidates would likely only canvas the cities.

As for you having little choice, I think Dean screwed up in deciding to forgo matching funds. Edwards is going to be receiving a couple million bucks, which will undoubtedly help him.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
Because of the failures of the candidates who are gone. It wasn't the front-loaded schedule that caused Dean to not win a single contest. Look at it this way: at least you won't be voting for someone who can't go the distance.

Yeah, but the field was whittled down by corn-farmers, confederate flag wavers, and whiny Red Saux fans ( you can tell I'm not running for office ). That's my point. They aren't representative of America on the whole.

Originally posted by roger_ramjet:

Kerry won't fare much better. The security issue today is framed by the war in Iraq. Kerry's voting record on Iraq is the same as Edwards. Add to that all the votes Kerry's made over the years against key weapons systems that our military relies on - votes that Edwards doesn't have on his record - and Kerry may very well be the weaker candidate against Bush. And who of the two do you think has any chance in the South?

Again, I give up on political guessing considering I'm running a 90% failure rate on picking political winners and issues. I do know that I don't believe these idiotic polls that say Kerry would win against Bush. Bush has just barely started his campaign. We have a long way to go.

[itai195]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Look, again, I'm sorry your guy lost. Mine did too. I'm just not as big of a whiny baby about it.

Joe kidding! When Joe dropped out, you didn't express a Joe-verwhelming sense of Joe-pelessnes. You didn't Joe-pe around, you were dip-Joe-matic and Joe-pened your mind to other candidates. The show must Joe on, and there are other Dem-Joe-crats out there to Joe-te for!

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
(1) Cool idea on the regional thing. The problem would be that the candidates would likely only canvas the cities.

That's true. Campaigns would probably be more media focused. You'd lose a little of that personal campaigning. But I'd ask you, do you really need to see another candidate flipping pancakes? I think I've seen footage of every Democratic potential wielding a spatula this year. Considering that 80% of the population is shut out of the current process, I could live with a new alternative.

Originally posted by spacefreak:

As for you having little choice, I think Dean screwed up in deciding to forgo matching funds. Edwards is going to be receiving a couple million bucks, which will undoubtedly help him.

Boy, you may be right. I wonder if that made a big difference? All we kept hearing about was how Dean had all this cash and then...poof, it was gone.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Look, again, I'm sorry your guy lost. Mine did too. I'm just not as big of a whiny baby about it.

I'm sorry that your candidate was so uninspiring.

BG

[voodoo]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
I'm sorry that your candidate was so uninspiring.

BG

He'd have inspired a lot more if he was in the GOP methinks.

[saab95]

Dean has officially dropped out of the race.

Good riddance.

Who needs a President whose platform is to balance the budget by raising taxes?

[itai195]

Originally posted by saab95:
Good riddance.

Who needs a President whose platform is to balance the budget by raising taxes?

Who needs a president whose platform is to unbalance the budget by cutting taxes and raising spending?

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by saab95:
Good riddance.

Who needs a President whose platform is to balance the budget?

Indeed.

One thing is certain. One way or the other, after the next US election we can all poke fun at the US president, who will be an assclown.

Is it really all about preserving the status quo? Don't rock the boat - vote Kerry. We demand NOTHING! NOW!

No wonder Americans don't vote.

[daimoni]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
What you might call spineless I would call a welcome return to pragmatism.

I'm all for pragmatism, in fact, for me, pragmatism usually trumps ideology (which is why I've walked out of Green Party meetings laughing to keep from crying )... however I'm not exactly sure what you think I might call spineless.

What some might call pragmatism others may call an unwelcome return to defeatism.

But enough of bickering... I really dig your Freddy D. sig file.

[roger_ramjet]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Yeah, but the field was whittled down by corn-farmers, confederate flag wavers, and whiny Red Saux fans ( you can tell I'm not running for office ). That's my point. They aren't representative of America on the whole...

Who is? Bigger states offer a greater diversity of viewpoints but they also raise the bar for who gets heard. And even the biggest states don't reflect all our concerns. States like Iowa and New Hampshire give a dark horse a chance because the campaign there is face to face. You can't do that in California. To compete in a big state you have to be able to make massive media buys.

... We have a long way to go.

Yep.

[pooka]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
One thing is certain. One way or the other, after the next US election we can all poke fun at the US president, who will be an assclown.No wonder Americans don't vote.

Whoa, whoa, whooooah. This coming from the folks who put dubya's "other poodle" into office?

[BRussell]

From his statement, I'd guess that he's going to start a 527 and buy lots of anti-Bush ad time.

A Beginning not an End

Today my candidacy may come to an end--but our campaign for change is not over.

I want to thank each and every person who has supported this campaign. Over the last year, you have reached out to neighbors, friends, family and colleagues--building one American at a time the greatest grassroots campaign presidential politics has ever seen. I will never forget the work and the heart that you put into our campaign.

In the coming weeks, we will launching a new initiative to continue the campaign you helped begin. Please continue to come to www.deanforamerica.com for updates and news as our new initiative develops. There is much work still to be done, and today is not an end--it is just the beginning.

This Party and this country needs change, and you have already begun that process. I want you to think about how far we have come. The truth is: change is tough. There is enormous institutional pressure in our country against change. There is enormous institutional pressure in Washington against change, in the Democratic Party against change. Yet, you have already started to change the Party and together we have transformed this race. Along the way, we�ve engaged hundreds of thousands of new Americans in the political process, as witnessed by this year�s record participation in the primaries and caucuses.

The fight that we began can and must continue. Although my candidacy for president may end today, the most important goal remains defeating George W. Bush in November, and I hope that you will join me in doing everything we can to support the Democrats this fall. From the earliest days of our campaign, I have said that the power to change Washington rests not in my hands, but in yours. Always remember, you have the power to take our country back.