Originally posted by Splinter:
I'm not sure I understand. Are you asking if that doesn�t also apply to Israel how can they claim to be direct descendants of those who lived here when it was ancient Israel?
Yes. I think. Don't understand your question well enough to tell.
If that�s what you mean then you are very right there is no way to be 100% sure but it is very well known that the Jews were always centralized in and around Israel until after they were dispersed throughout Europe and other places and in very much the same way as is done today they make sure their children know exactly where they came from you know make sure they know the ancient traditions stuff like that was what they did in the "Diaspora" if you will. And so most the Jews today come from families who never really lost track of whether their family came directly from Israel or not I mean there is hardly a Jew in the world whose family back then didn�t reside in Israel.
You really have to start using periods and commas. But anyway.
But how do you know who came from a convert family and who didn't? There is no way(at least very difficult) to verify that. That is one of the bigger issues when giving all Jews the right to "return" to Israel. At the same time we are being denied our basic human rights like the right of return.
Well you call the foreigners now but a few centuries ago their families were living there to... the people next door weren�t part of ancient Israel or their families most likely weren�t. And so those coming from abroad get citizenship because they are Jews and their families used to live there. But hey I have many many non-Jewish friends who have made aliyah and are citizens here.
Again. How do you verify that they aren't converts or had converts in their families? There is no way of doing that. It's even possible for a European, American or whomever to convert and thereby get the same legal status as Jews who actually lived in Israel before. All while we are being denied our basic rights.
If it�s not too much trouble could you show me what parts of those links mean that Palestinians are closer to Israelis then to other Arabs?
I don't have time at the moment but I'll try to do it when I have the time.
Well I don�t believe Arafat did what he should have done for the Palestinian people. Trying to keep the extremists "friendly" is just giving in to them. You need to fight them... if the PA really wanted to fight them like I said they know they could get military support form both the US Israel even the UN or something.
No, keeping them friendly in the current climate gives you some control over them. Arafat tried to keep them at bay until we get free at last. Because after that the support they currently hold would quickly erode and be a memory of the past. And getting Israeli or US support would be suicide for any Palestinian leader. And Palestine has asked several times for help from the UN only to be rejected by guess who.
Well it was only a lose-lose for the native inhabitants at the time that weren�t part of Israel... for Israel herself and the Jews it was a very good thing.
And that is unacceptable. As you say the native inhabitants lost. That is always unacceptable. Unless you consider what happened to the native Americans and others to be a very good thing.
I knew about the demolitions for houses of the terrorists but not for just settlements but hey that wouldn�t surprise me... allot of time people pass stupid ideas on both sides. But to be sure do you have any links?
I'll find the links when I have the time. Quite busy at the moment.
Yeah that family may not know ahead of time but then they are interviewed on TV praising him for taking the lives of those people.
What do you expect them to do after their house has been demolished by Israel? Praise Israel? Curse their family? By demolishing their house Israel has proven the suicide bombers point.
Well we already know the PA will get support if they ask for it... even before the Intefada Israel started training and supplying the PA forces... unfortunately many of them started using that stuff against Israel by selling it to terrorists or using it themselves... 
And there is little the Palestinian authority can do about that. At the moment one of the only jobs a Palestinian can find is with the PA. And they try to hire as many as possible to keep unemployment down. That leads to several "unwanted" persons working for them.
The problem being the current settlements... they are there and many have been there longer then the creation of this state itself. To remove them is a very... hmm, delicate situation that will take time if it is done at all. After that Israel can safely move the wall back but to do it before that is to practically condemn every one of the families there to death.
They can still live there if they want. They'll just live under Palestinian rule and be given Palestinian citizenship and rights. Something that Israel has denied us so far.
Yeah... but I don�t want you or anyone one else in this forum to get me wrong. I still think that the creation of Israel was a good and right thing to do... its the circumstances around it that are the big issue and that I wish something else had been done about them.
Agreed.
Really right now we are debating semantics but Palestine is the name of a state the area of the West Bank and Gaza strip are currently not a state, which is why they are called by their locations and or the occupied territories. I would disagree that they should be called Palestine now but that is really not an area of important contention to begin with so I will agree to disagree if you will. 
Fair enough.
Yes now they are. Like on what was it? Ramadan maybe any Muslims under the age of 45 was forbidden to go there and pray for fear of a violent outburst... which they had an historical basis to be wary of however its still a restriction. But before the Intefada and after Jerusalem was Liberated from Jordan There was quite free access there.
There have been several different restrictions on access to Al Aqsa. One is that you can't simply go there from where ever you are in Palestine unless you want to spend several hours waiting in checkpoints and hope you make it to Al Aqsa early enough to be able to return back in time. There are several "small" restrictions in place that don't have the name "Restrictions especially for Al Aqsa" on them but do at the same time have exactly that effect.
My knowledge is not very extensive at all... so I wont lie to you... if you wanted me to answer that it would be based on the first few articles I could find pertaining to the subject on google.
The short answer is that it was used as a dump site by the Crusaders and was mostly demolished. At times Jews were only allowed access one time per year and that was to access the "Wailing Wall" to grieve the original temple. When the Muslims conquered Al Quds they decided to rebuild it and allow everyone access. That is the reason that there still is something there today.
Absolutely. Believe me the discussion between you and I have been more civilized then any of the other discussion I have had with any of these other people. Funny that. An Israeli and Palestinian talking about this calmly while when other people mostly in Europe and such try and talk about it things just go haywire.
I do very much appreciate the way you have helped to carry on this discussion. 
I'd say that both the Europeans and Americans get all carried away when discussing this. They both do that because they don't realise what is at stake and only think about it from what they would benefit from it. Just as usual.
Top