[the_glassman]

iPhone & LG KE850: separated at birth? - Engadget Mobile

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by the_glassman 

iPhone & LG KE850: separated at birth? - Engadget Mobile

Where have you been?

[slugslugslug]

Well, I haven't read this entire thread nor every article out there, but:

Has anyone heard about multitasking with this thing, especially in iPod mode? That is, if you turn on some tunes, and then hit the Home button to do other stuff, your music does keep playing, right?

I mean, on the one hand, it seems obvious that music should play in the background. On the other, that might make it difficult to quickly control your music. That's something that seems a good reason to have included a few more physical controls..

[Krusty]

Interesting question. If iPhone had yahoo "push" email, is there any reason you couldn't set yahoo mail to check all of your accounts (POP and otherwise) and basically make "push" email out of all of them?

[f1000]

Originally Posted by Krusty 

Interesting question. If iPhone had yahoo "push" email, is there any reason you couldn't set yahoo mail to check all of your accounts (POP and otherwise) and basically make "push" email out of all of them?

If someone sends me an email that fulfills a certain filter's criteria, then I'll receive an alert on my Cingular LG CU500 asking me whether I want to read that message. It doesn't "push" the entire message into my cell phone's memory first, though.

[stevesnj]

Well I was on the fence about the iPhone then watched the iPhone intro on the Apple website and I decided I will buy the iPhone. It will do everything i need all in one and to me it will be worth it considering my needs. Thank you Apple!

[Eug]

The Street: Don't Buy Apple's One-Trick iPhone Pony

While some have criticized my pricing and keyboard concerns, the real objection seems to be to my statement that Apple's shares have benefited from a nearly $20 billion incremental rise in equity capitalization from last week's MacWorld announcement.

In actuality, that was being conservative. I would say there was more than $5 to $10 of pre-announcement hype built in to Apple's share price, and then the stock rose another $10. With 870 million shares outstanding, those two pops represent $4.3 billion to $8.7 billion and $8.7 billion, respectively, which is how I arrive at nearly $20 billion in hype.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The Street: Don't Buy Apple's One-Trick iPhone Pony[/i]

So we shouldn't get the iPhone because the original announcement caused Apples Stock to go up?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

So we shouldn't get the iPhone because the original announcement caused Apples Stock to go up?

He's quite negative, but...

"Without the iPhone announcement, MacWorld is a giant yawn ... so the iPhone is announced -- without even having the rights to the name -- months before it is ready to be shipped."

And looking beyond the wow! factor, one has to question many of the features of the iPhone product. I suspect that in the fullness of time there could be even more flaws than I mentioned in my article yesterday.

[xi_hyperon]

Negative? How about bitter, perhaps.

I can understand people getting put off by the saturation of publicity that accompanies Apple announcements (especially the iPhone's, which got even more publicity than normal). But guys like this just sound sour in their effort at taking down the hype a notch. I don't think it matters either way. People who like the phone will get it, and will choose to like Apple products (or not) based on their merit, not because of the millions of opinions on the web. And company income analysis (Apple really only grew this much because of this product, so they're not that great!!11) is not exactly something people care about when considering a product.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

And looking beyond the wow! factor, one has to question many of the features of the iPhone product. I suspect that in the fullness of time there could be even more flaws than I mentioned in my article yesterday.[/i]

He sounds bitter. The product isn't finished nor has he really used it but he is already bitching about the flaws.

No matter what he will never be satisfied but I am still interested in knowing what he considers the best alternative.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

Negative? How about bitter, perhaps.

I can understand people getting put off by the saturation of publicity that accompanies Apple announcements (especially the iPhone's, which got even more publicity than normal). But guys like this just sound sour in their effort at taking down the hype a notch. I don't think it matters either way. People who like the phone will get it, and will choose to like Apple products (or not) based on their merit, not because of the millions of opinions on the web. And company income analysis (Apple really only grew this much because of this product, so they're not that great!!11) is not exactly something people care about when considering a product.

Well, to be honest, while many sound sour/bitter, I happen to share a lot of the concerns those people have.

And considering that I also think the iPhone is waaaaay overhyped, I think people should try to look past the hype and actually analyze its features vs. price (both for the hardware and for the contract) before jumping into it just because it happens to be an iPod as well.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

He sounds bitter. The product isn't finished nor has he really used it but he is already bitching about the flaws.

That's just it. People are freaking out over an unfinished product which they have never used, and are suddenly claiming it's the 3rd coming of Jobs.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

And considering that I also think the iPhone is waaaaay overhyped, I think people should try to look past the hype and actually analyze its features vs. price (both for the hardware and for the contract) before jumping into it just because it happens to be an iPod as well.

Well, though it may have been convoluted, that was my point. I think that's exactly what will happen, regardless of the hype, and the concomitant counter-whining on the web.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

How fast is that specific iPhone ARM CPU anyway?

Something like a toilet seat iBook?



I note that the G3 PowerPC 750CX 366 MHz is around 850 MIPS.

The iPhone will fly in OS 9!!!

The iPhone uses an Marvell Xscale CPU.

I'm guessing it's a PXA900 series chip, like this guy blogged about.

That chip is supposed to be in the 1000 MIPS range, while a Core Duo 2.13 is supposed to be in the 20000 MIPS range.

[Raihan]

The manufacturing cost of the phone is $249 but look at the price they are giving it to you with a 2 year contract. I mean whats the point of going into a contract then?

[icruise]

$249 is NOT the manufacturing cost. It is the cost of the component parts. That doesn't include the cost of putting the parts together, shipping them, or marketing them, to say nothing of software (which is actually what makes the iPhone special). Apple has been working on this project for 2.5 years, so they've got a huge amount invested in the project before the first iPhone is even bought.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by icruise 

$249 is NOT the manufacturing cost. It is the cost of the component parts. That doesn't include the cost of putting the parts together, shipping them, or marketing them, to say nothing of software (which is actually what makes the iPhone special). Apple has been working on this project for 2.5 years, so they've got a huge amount invested in the project before the first iPhone is even bought.

$246 includes assembly and software; the raw components were only about $215 for the 4GB.



I was surprised the low power 802.11b/g radios are so expensive.

[icruise]

So you think $7 for OS X is a fair estimate?

EDIT: That came off a little more smart-alecky than I intended. I didn't see that they had included assembly, but my point is that there is no way you can assign a dollar amount to something like the software on the iPhone. To suggest that they are bilking their customers by charging twice as much as the iPhone is "worth" not only misses the fact that any business is out to make a profit, it also fails to take into account the fact that Apple isn't going to be making ANY money on the iPhone for a while, because they have so much R&D to recoup.

[BRussell]

It's interesting that memory is the single most expensive component. Even the touch screen isn't as expensive. Shouldn't that stuff be dirt cheap by now, as long as they've been making it?

[Gossamer]

A 2GB USB flash drive runs at least $20 still.

[Visnaut]

Or that "Voice Processing Software" is 7.5x more expensive than "Multimedia Standards & Software"? Which I would assume the iPod functionality would fall under and the new interface it employs?

I don't think anyone but Apple can truly say what the cost of software is on the iPhone.

This isn't to say that Apple won't be making huge margins on this thing. I'm sure they will, just like every other iPod they sell.

But this teardown is educated guessing at best, especially since they don't have a unit to physically take apart as of yet.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So you think $7 for OS X is a fair estimate?

Averaged over all the iPhone units? Sure, that's a $10m for 1.4m units. And if the iPhone OS really is a derivative of the desktop OSX, the development shouldn't be too costly.

Originally Posted by BRussell 

It's interesting that memory is the single most expensive component. Even the touch screen isn't as expensive. Shouldn't that stuff be dirt cheap by now, as long as they've been making it?

$8.75/GB for flash is dirt cheap; it's only the most expensive component because they're including a lot of it.

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

A 2GB USB flash drive runs at least $20 still.

That $10/GB includes manufacture, packaging, and distribution. And you can get 2GB SD cards for $17.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Raihan 

The manufacturing cost of the phone is $249 but look at the price they are giving it to you with a 2 year contract. I mean whats the point of going into a contract then?

Simple: You can't get it w/o a contract. Pretty good argument, if you ask me.

-t

[Raihan]

Originally Posted by icruise 

$249 is NOT the manufacturing cost. It is the cost of the component parts. That doesn't include the cost of putting the parts together, shipping them, or marketing them, to say nothing of software (which is actually what makes the iPhone special). Apple has been working on this project for 2.5 years, so they've got a huge amount invested in the project before the first iPhone is even bought.

If you think that iPHONE really worth at least $599 then how come price drops after few months? For an instance when V3 first came out in market, how much was it? Nokie N93 how much was the price when it came out, and you should observe the price drop of N93 at the end up summer 2007. These companies likes to do the initial business.My point is if you are gonna charge me double the price of the manufacturing and operating cost what the point of putting me in a contract? Do you really think if a phone's manufacturing cost is around $250 (approx.), will it add up to $700 just because of shipping and marketting?

[analogika]

If you've got, say, $15 million tied up in research and development, and another $25 million in ramping up production and stocking items before release, you're going to want to make $40 million off the new product as fast as possible before you even *think* about lowering prices.

At least, I would.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by analogika 

and another $25 million in ramping up production and stocking items before release

I think that's a gross overestimate, and even if its not, that's an expense for the ODM producing the phone, not Apple.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I think that's a gross overestimate, and even if its not, that's an expense for the ODM producing the phone, not Apple.

Ok then, let's toss in 30M in advertising expenses.

-t

[Kerrigan]

This reminds me of those discussions about how bad the service is on airline flights. Customers demanded that costs be lowered to such an extent that now there is no room for decent service, and yet they still bitch that they aren't getting what they want. Do you want consumer goods to become the same way?

[Salty]

I hardly think OS X should only cost 7 dollars. I don't get why people have a problem with Apple charging a premium for the iPhone. Am I wanting to buy it at it's current price point? No, I can't afford any phone right now. That said once I'm in the market for a phone the iPhone will be the one that I save for.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Salty 

I hardly think OS X should only cost 7 dollars. I don't get why people have a problem with Apple charging a premium for the iPhone. Am I wanting to buy it at it's current price point? No, I can't afford any phone right now. That said once I'm in the market for a phone the iPhone will be the one that I save for.

I doubt most companys charge for the OS of a cell phone at all. It's just a general development cost.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I think that's a gross overestimate, and even if its not, that's an expense for the ODM producing the phone, not Apple.

What manufacturer would agree to produce, say, one million phones for advance stock, without seeing any money whatsoever?

A stupid manufacturer?

NB: I am not an economics guy, but I can't imagine that having a million of these sitting around before release day, at $260 a pop, is not going to cost APPLE a pretty sum. I doubt the manufacturer/OEM parts factories could afford to sit on these costs until the phone happens to sell in quantity.

That's APPLE's risk.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

I doubt most companys charge for the OS of a cell phone at all. It's just a general development cost.

Those manufacturers who use Windows mobile in their smartphones have to pay licensing fees for the OS to Microsoft. That might be where the $7 figure is coming from.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by analogika 

What manufacturer would agree to produce, say, one million phones for advance stock, without seeing any money whatsoever?

A stupid manufacturer?

NB: I am not an economics guy, but I can't imagine that having a million of these sitting around before release day, at $260 a pop, is not going to cost APPLE a pretty sum. I doubt the manufacturer/OEM parts factories could afford to sit on these costs until the phone happens to sell in quantity.

That's APPLE's risk.

When was the last time Apple had a million anything sitting around on release day?

Most of the time they don't even have one for sale on release day.

[analogika]

The iPod nano 2nd generation and iPod shuffle 2nd generation come to mind, as well as the Intel Mac minis.

Those took under a week to show up in our stores.

Plus, in this case, we're dealing with a product that has been pre-announced six months in advance and doesn't need to be kept under wraps, and which Apple is expecting to sell like crazy.

[Chuckit]

If you have a problem with paying money and need to do a full rundown to see if the manufacturer of a product is charging you (gasp) more than cost, the iPhone is not for you. That's OK. Some people like to buy iMacs, other people like to build their own PCs and run horrible, maintenance-heavy, design-by-committee operating systems on them. To each their own.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The iPhone uses an Marvell Xscale CPU.

I'm guessing it's a PXA900 series chip, like this guy blogged about.

That chip is supposed to be in the 1000 MIPS range, while a Core Duo 2.13 is supposed to be in the 20000 MIPS range.

AI claims it's a Samsung SoC.

I'm still more inclined to believe it's a Marvell.

[Dark Helmet]

i don't care if it is powered by a hamster in a wheel. That thing is still the hottest thing since sliced bread.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

i don't care if it is powered by a hamster in a wheel. That thing is still the hottest thing since sliced bread.

It'd be cool if it were a hamster... small hamster... and then you could just feed it.

[slugslugslug]

Then Apple would have to pay a licensing fee to tha 'NN.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by slugslugslug 

Then Apple would have to pay a licensing fee to tha 'NN.

Ya but we can feed the "No removable battery" whiners to the hamster. That would be cool, powered by the very same people who complain about it

[xi_hyperon]

My current phone seems to sense that I'm taken with the new iPhone. It's been acting up lately, locking up, not recognizing my SIM card, etc. Who knew a phone could be insecure and jealous?

[::maroma::]

I have no worries about the battery power in the iPhone. If I'm on the road and need to recharge my battery, I will simply use the power of the iPhone's own awesomeness. I will absorb said awesomeness into myself using pure smugness, and redirect it back into the iPhone.

Everyone wins.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Ya but we can feed the "No removable battery" whiners to the hamster. That would be cool, powered by the very same people who complain about it

An average male MacNN whiner is probably about 80 kg. So, a backup whiner power source for the iPhone would weigh almost 600X as much as the iPhone itself. Apple clearly hasn't thought this through.

[ort888]

The good news is that most people already own 3 or 4 chargers that will work on the iPhone.

[goMac]

"Cramer said AT&T (T - news - Cramer's Take) is one of the most interesting stories coming out of the tech period. In its call, the company made it very clear that it's going to use Apple's (AAPL - news - Cramer's Take) iPhone to get customers from Verizon Wireless (VZ - news - Cramer's Take) by giving away its service for a year and a half to those customers who buy the phone."

TheStreet.com TV Recap: Tech Signs

Got a Verizon convert here.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ort888 

The good news is that most people already own 3 or 4 chargers that will work on the iPhone.

Chargers don't help much on the plane.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by goMac 

"Cramer said AT&T (T - news - Cramer's Take) is one of the most interesting stories coming out of the tech period. In its call, the company made it very clear that it's going to use Apple's (AAPL - news - Cramer's Take) iPhone to get customers from Verizon Wireless (VZ - news - Cramer's Take) by giving away its service for a year and a half to those customers who buy the phone."

TheStreet.com TV Recap: Tech Signs

Got a Verizon convert here.

If that's true, it would make the iPhone a bargain.

1.5 years of free service is worth at least $ 720 (18 months x $ 40).

I can't believe this is going to happen.

-t

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Chargers don't help much on the plane.

We already went through this with the cheap and highly convent energizer AA charger.

Better than a spare battery as it is way cheaper, you don't have to turn off the phone and it leaves the iPhone nice and small.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

We already went through this with the cheap and highly convent energizer AA charger.

Better than a spare battery as it is way cheaper, you don't have to turn off the phone and it leaves the iPhone nice and small.

And as I posted previously, I MUCH prefer having swappable batteries because they're more convenient, and you don't have to deal with exhausted batteries 2 years down the line. However, the Energizer solution is a helpful solution, specifically for planes and such.

P.S. Have you ever disassembled your iPod? I have. It isn't easy, and it's almost impossible to keep it pristine.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

And as I posted previously, I MUCH prefer having swappable batteries because they're more convenient, and you don't have to deal with exhausted batteries 2 years down the line. However, the Energizer solution is a helpful solution, specifically for planes and such.

I agree. I phones, it's a must. If you do hiking you need swappable batteries.

In addition, phone batteries wear out quickly. And people make higher capacity batteries.