[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Also the 3000 USB ports.

I don't understand why people are complaining about there being five USB ports in this picture, or claiming that five USB ports is a lot. It's not - five is still a small number of ports for a desktop machine - the cheapest Dell and the cheapest HP on the market both have eight.

The problem with something that wants to be the über-God-port that you use to connect everything is that you end up needing a lot of that port. All the five ports on this Mini will mean (if true) is that you'll only need one hub, instead of two of them.

[Undo Redo]

deleted

[Eug]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I don't understand why people are complaining about there being five USB ports in this picture, or claiming that five USB ports is a lot. It's not - five is still a small number of ports for a desktop machine - the cheapest Dell and the cheapest HP on the market both have eight.

The problem with something that wants to be the über-God-port that you use to connect everything is that you end up needing a lot of that port. All the five ports on this Mini will mean (if true) is that you'll only need one hub, instead of two of them.

Exactly. It continues to annoy me that the iMac has only 3 USB ports... two of which are being used by two hubs.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I don't understand why people are complaining about there being five USB ports in this picture, or claiming that five USB ports is a lot. It's not - five is still a small number of ports for a desktop machine - the cheapest Dell and the cheapest HP on the market both have eight.

That'd be because I haven't had the pleasure of having more than 3 on any of the Macs I've owned. I'll stop acting surprised when Apple starts making that a common sight.

[Eug]

FWIW, people kept saying Apple wouldn't put Firewire on an iBook... until they did.
FWIW, people kept saying Apple wouldn't implement disc burning on external 3rd party drives in iDVD... until they did.
FWIW, people kept saying that Apple wouldn't implement screen spanning on consumer Macs... until they did.
FWIW, people kept saying that Apple wouldn't put FW800 on the iMac... until they did.

I think the addition of more USB ports on a Mac mini would be a reasonable thing for Apple to do (cuz 3 x USB is woefully inadequate on a desktop), and one of the least surprising. More surprising would be dual displays.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

More surprising would be dual displays.

Especially if they did it with two different interfaces. Even more so when the newer one supposedly replicates the older one's functionality.

[CharlesS]

Not completely - there aren't currently any adapters for mini-DisplayPort to S-Video, component, or composite, which are important to have on the Mac mini, since one of its big niches is the media center.

[chichow]

Video

http://www.uberreview.com/2009/02/a-...w-mac-mini.htm

[Veltliner]

I thought about a mini as a second computer, but whenever I come to the practicability, it seems to make more sense to get an MB.

The price difference isn't that big, and you can log the MB around as an independent computer, and, for more serious work, connect an external display.

I know there are many fans of the mini, and so I'd be quite interested in their arguments against my arguments.

What's the advantage of the mini?

You have a display and are short of money. I think that's the main advantage.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Not completely - there aren't currently any adapters for mini-DisplayPort to S-Video, component, or composite, which are important to have on the Mac mini, since one of its big niches is the media center.

Currently, sure. But is that because it simply hasn't been done yet, or because it can't be done at all? It's my understanding that these adapters basically do nothing else than tell the graphics circuitry to output a different signal. The adapter does no magic. If the graphics circuitry of the Mac can do S-video Apple should be able to make an adapter to route it out. Maybe ibook_steve can chime in here because IIRC he worked on these adapters back in the iBook days.

If indeed DVI is required because MDP cannot be made to replicate previous functionality (analog video signals for example) portable Mac users are going to be really pissed off.

And finally, why would Apple chose MiniDVI over DVI? I see lots of space there, not like the MB.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Currently, sure. But is that because it simply hasn't been done yet, or because it can't be done at all? It's my understanding that these adapters basically do nothing else than tell the graphics circuitry to output a different signal. The adapter does no magic. If the graphics circuitry of the Mac can do S-video Apple should be able to make an adapter to route it out.

I dunno, all I know is that Apple released a bunch of adapters for mini-DP, and S-Video is nowhere to be found, and that Monoprice has announced that they'll be making a bunch of adapters for mini-DP to DVI, VGA, and HDMI... and no S-Video. I'm not sure that mini-DP can do S-Video. You'd think that someone would make an adapter if it could... there's got to be a market for it.

[Simon]

Absolutely. But assuming S-video is definitely not an option with MDP, why would Apple switch to MDP on their portable lines where there's no option for an extra MDVI? Because they are leaving S-video behind? Sure, they've done stuff like that before. But why then make that call only to reverse on it a few months later? And on the Mac mini??? I don't know. Doesn't sound convincing to me. I'm anxious to see the ports on the Mac mini they'll actually sell.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

I know there are many fans of the mini, and so I'd be quite interested in their arguments against my arguments.

I consider myself a fan of the mini (though I don't own one ) and i think for my needs it's better then a MB (though I own a MBP and love the MB form factor).

Here's where I think the mini beats the MB
1. Price, you cannot discount the allure and desire to get a macintosh for only 599.
2. Backup machine, I don't need mobility for a backup machine so there's no need to spend anyware upwards of 600 more dollars for a unibody mb (or 300 of the white one)
3. Young families, I think a mini is better for people with kids, as they can be quite hard on keyboards. I'd rather seem them pound the stuffing out of a keyboard then a 1300 dollar computer. (and young ones will still try banging away at a mb's keyboard even when you have an external keyboard - i know from experience )
4. Footprint, as a backup computer, or for a limited space, the mini takes up less space.

For me, its the price, I don't want to spend more $$ for a computer that will be relegated to a non-primary purpose and 600 to 800 dollars is about what I want to spend.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Absolutely. But assuming S-video is definitely not an option with MDP, why would Apple switch to MDP on their portable lines where there's no option for an extra MDVI? Because they are leaving S-video behind? Sure, they've done stuff like that before. But why then make that call only to reverse on it a few months later? And on the Mac mini??? I don't know. Doesn't sound convincing to me. I'm anxious to see the ports on the Mac mini they'll actually sell.

Apple is quite fond of deciding for you what you don't need these days, and may well have decided that you don't need S-Video anymore on the notebooks. Since the Mac mini has a niche as a media center machine, though, S-Video will obviously be needed there.

[P]

I'd argue that S-video is more useful on a laptop. When presenting, you never know what sort of display equipment you're going to get, and S-video might be useful as an ultimate fallback. At home, you probably splurged for an HDTV before considering putting a computer in your home theater setup.

Anyway: S-video ouput likely needs support in the GPU firmware. If that was a low priority for Apple, it may yet be added. Just don't hold your breath.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by P 

I'd argue that S-video is more useful on a laptop. When presenting, you never know what sort of display equipment you're going to get, and S-video might be useful as an ultimate fallback.

Oh, I agree. I'm not arguing with you at all - just speculating on why Apple might have done this.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by P 

I'd argue that S-video is more useful on a laptop. When presenting, you never know what sort of display equipment you're going to get, and S-video might be useful as an ultimate fallback. At home, you probably splurged for an HDTV before considering putting a computer in your home theater setup.

Anyway: S-video ouput likely needs support in the GPU firmware. If that was a low priority for Apple, it may yet be added. Just don't hold your breath.

I agree with this comment. To me it just doesn't sound realistic to believe that while the $600 Mm needs S-video, portable Macs including the $2799 17" MBP are just fine without it.

What I'd really like to know is
• is it technically feasible to route S-video through MDP?
• what outputs will the Mac mini actually come with?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Oh, I agree. I'm not arguing with you at all - just speculating on why Apple might have done this.

So does that mean you think this is the actual Mac mini as it will end up on shelves and not just a design concept?

To me that port layout looked exactly like what I'd expect during the design process and testing: same old case, lots of (redundant) outputs.

[P]

Originally Posted by Simon 

What I'd really like to know is
• is it technically feasible to route S-video through MDP?

If you can route VGA through it, it should be possible.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Apple is quite fond of deciding for you what you don't need these days, and may well have decided that you don't need S-Video anymore on the notebooks. Since the Mac mini has a niche as a media center machine, though, S-Video will obviously be needed there.

These days? I think apple has done that through out its history, remember the bondi blue iMac, and the floppy drive, or the lack of scsi drives. What about ADB connections.

[CharlesS]

Throughout its history? The bondi iMac was about 11 years ago. Apple is a 33-year-old company. Prior to the iMac, they hadn't done stuff like that since 1984 (and even that's debatable, since we're talking about a whole new platform there, not just an update to the Apple II line). Heck, for quite a while, they even included some kind of slot on most of their machines - imagine that!

It's Steve Jobs' Apple that I wouldn't be surprised to see decide that you just plain don't need S-Video, and then make sure you have no way to add it, either.

As for the Mac mini concept, I'm not a fortune-teller. It looks convincing to me, but I could be wrong. We'll see.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

It's Steve Jobs' Apple that I wouldn't be surprised to see decide that you just plain don't need S-Video, and then make sure you have no way to add it, either.

I agree. But why are we to believe that is indeed their policy when these pics would mean they reversed it only a few months later with their cheapest Mac product.

Either this is not the Mac mini to go on sale or that is not Apple's policy towards S-video.

[CharlesS]

It could well be that they have decided you don't need it on a laptop, but that you would on a media-center Mac mini. I wouldn't agree with that, and I would be irritated if I had a new MacBook that couldn't connect via S-Video, but I could unfortunately see them doing that.

[tooki]

Given that Apple doesn't even let its home theater set-top box output to S-video, I don't believe that the Mac mini's utility as a HTPC is a high priority for Apple.

[P]

Good points, but note that Apple DOES listen to its customers from time to time. If there had been huge cry about not having S-video on the AppleTV or latest MB, they would have added it back. For the MB/MBP, it should be as easy as a software update and an adapter. They haven't, so I guess the huge cry didn't materialize.

[macforray]

Tomorrow may be the BIG day........., but we've all heard that before.

[Simon]

Well it really looks like this Tuesday's gonna be the day.

Low-end: 2 GHz C2D, 1 GB RAM, 120 GB HDD, $499?
High-end: 2 GHz C2D, 2 GB RAM, 320 GB HDD
Both come with 5 USB, MiniDVI, MiniDP, FW800, Gigabit, and the Nvidia chipset with support for up to 4GB RAM.

I find these 'leaked' images quite interesting in comparison.





The box pic is missing a vent. One of these pics (or both) is displaying a product that will not go on sale. So maybe the early pic and video did indeed display a prototype rather than the actually shipping product.

[chichow]

Where's Simon. I need to call Simon...


http://www.apple.com/macmini/

[CharlesS]

Ha, I was right for once. Booya!