[SpaceMonkey]

Wait, shif is female?










I'm joking, I'm joking.

[shifuimam]

[brassplayersrock²]

Good luck. Shif. You have at least two things going for you.

Actual knowledge of the products, and a good personality.

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

Try to look pretty.
No one likes to see a fug working retail. It makes for an uncomfortable shopping experience.

Maybe if you're superficial. I couldn't care less what someone looks like as long as they have proper hygiene. Personality and expertise matters much more so they can answer my questions, understand my product needs, and know when I just want to browse on my own - I'm there to buy something, not pick someone up for a one night stand.

[Big Mac]

I think Shif does have the general look Apple Store managers like. But I do still believe that it's important to believe in the superiority of Apple products, including OS X. When I sold Macs retail I was a believer, and I think that made a difference.

[besson3c]

Apple fanboys are not who you want fixing software problems. Apple fanboys are generally not accustomed to understanding problems at a deeper level than Apple's little bubble because they lack experience in computing outside of said bubble.

Knowing the combination of things to click on to repair permissions, for instance, is far less useful than actually understanding what permissions are and how they work. Understanding commands like iostat, how to check swap usage, reading logs, using lsof, tcpdump, smartctl, etc. might be troubleshooting techniques that Mac users don't often employ, but it's far more difficult for somebody who is intimidated by these sorts of tools to pick them up than it is for somebody who is to learn about Apple GUIs. There are obviously plenty of Mac users who know these sorts of tools inside out and backwards, but there are likely several that wouldn't think along these lines too because they are generally shielded from all of this in Apple's little bubble.

It seems like the more experience and understanding you have with IT, the deeper the layers you can penetrate in diagnosis and understanding. A complex operating system like OS X consists of *many*, *many* different layers. There is far more to it than just what icons/GUI controls you need to click on.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Knowing the combination of things to click on to repair permissions, for instance, is far less useful than actually understanding what permissions are and how they work. Understanding commands like iostat, how to check swap usage, reading logs, using lsof, tcpdump, smartctl, etc. might be troubleshooting techniques that Mac users don't often employ, but it's far more difficult for somebody who is intimidated by these sorts of tools to pick them up than it is for somebody who is to learn about Apple GUIs.

Uh huh. You think lsof and tcpdump come up in the course of selling Apple products on a daily basis?

[Eug]

Just check the man pages. They'll solve all the world's ills, as long as you read them and understand them.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Uh huh. You think lsof and tcpdump come up in the course of selling Apple products on a daily basis?

Not selling, but supporting Apple products. Shif was thinking of the genius bar.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Apple fanboys are not who you want fixing software problems. Apple fanboys are generally not accustomed to understanding problems at a deeper level than Apple's little bubble because they lack experience in computing outside of said bubble.

Knowing the combination of things to click on to repair permissions, for instance, is far less useful than actually understanding what permissions are and how they work. Understanding commands like iostat, how to check swap usage, reading logs, using lsof, tcpdump, smartctl, etc. might be troubleshooting techniques that Mac users don't often employ, but it's far more difficult for somebody who is intimidated by these sorts of tools to pick them up than it is for somebody who is to learn about Apple GUIs. There are obviously plenty of Mac users who know these sorts of tools inside out and backwards, but there are likely several that wouldn't think along these lines too because they are generally shielded from all of this in Apple's little bubble.

It seems like the more experience and understanding you have with IT, the deeper the layers you can penetrate in diagnosis and understanding. A complex operating system like OS X consists of *many*, *many* different layers. There is far more to it than just what icons/GUI controls you need to click on.

God, I hate the term "Apple fanboy."

[Laminar]

Speaking of hilarity...

[dedalus]

If you don’t realise OS X and Apple hardware are superior, you have no business working in a place that is selling it, that’s the way I look at it.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by dedalus 

If you don’t realise OS X and Apple hardware are superior, you have no business working in a place that is selling it, that’s the way I look at it.

[shifuimam]

I get it. Some of you don't think that I have a "right" to work at any Apple-related company or job because I'm not a fangirl.

Too bad. I need a job, and I'm going to the interview whether you think I have a "right" or any "business" doing so. I'm more than qualified for the position I applied for. Whether or not I use Windows or OS X as my primary OS at home does not affect my ability to sell a product, provide good customer service, and repair malfunctioning hardware.

So move the fsck on.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I think Shif does have the general look Apple Store managers like. But I do still believe that it's important to believe in the superiority of Apple products, including OS X. When I sold Macs retail I was a believer, and I think that made a difference.

And when I sold overpriced coffee and beverages at Starbucks, I was lock stock and barrel a Starbucks fangirl.

I even read the autobiography written by the then-CEO, Howard Schultz. I knew more about the corporation's history and goings-on than my district manager did.

Did my fangirlism make me a better employee? Not really. Did it make me sell more product? No, I'm pretty sure that my face, boobs, and friendly demeanor had a lot more to do with that than me "believing in Starbucks".

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Apple fanboys are not who you want fixing software problems. Apple fanboys are generally not accustomed to understanding problems at a deeper level than Apple's little bubble because they lack experience in computing outside of said bubble.

Knowing the combination of things to click on to repair permissions, for instance, is far less useful than actually understanding what permissions are and how they work. Understanding commands like iostat, how to check swap usage, reading logs, using lsof, tcpdump, smartctl, etc. might be troubleshooting techniques that Mac users don't often employ, but it's far more difficult for somebody who is intimidated by these sorts of tools to pick them up than it is for somebody who is to learn about Apple GUIs. There are obviously plenty of Mac users who know these sorts of tools inside out and backwards, but there are likely several that wouldn't think along these lines too because they are generally shielded from all of this in Apple's little bubble.

It seems like the more experience and understanding you have with IT, the deeper the layers you can penetrate in diagnosis and understanding. A complex operating system like OS X consists of *many*, *many* different layers. There is far more to it than just what icons/GUI controls you need to click on.

FFS, admiring Apple's work does not cause your brain's higher functions to shut down. That's like saying Linux weenies have no business ever interacting with customers because they're all socially inept and smell bad.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That's like saying Linux weenies have no business ever interacting with customers because they're all socially inept and smell bad.

Do you actually disagree with this?

The Linux weenies I knew at my last job were not the kind of people you wanted in customer-facing employment positions. They'd scare everyone away with their neckbeards and anime t-shirts.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Do you actually disagree with this?

The Linux weenies I knew at my last job were not the kind of people you wanted in customer-facing employment positions. They'd scare everyone away with their neckbeards and anime t-shirts.

Do you smell bad?

[shifuimam]

No, but I'm also not a Linux weenie.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

No, but I'm also not a Linux weenie.

Haven't you spoken positively of Linux before, or am I confusing you with someone else? (Maybe it wasn't clear, but I meant to define "Linux weenie" as loosely as besson was defining "Apple fanboy" — i.e., anybody who thinks a particular product is of high quality.)

[shifuimam]

Oh, sorry.

See, I define "fanboy" as someone who thinks that their chosen target of their fanboyish tendencies is objectively and irrefutably superior for everyone and all needs. Which is why I can't stand Apple fanboyism - or technology fanboyism in general. Is OS X superior for some people? Absolutely? Does it not meet the needs of other people? Of course. Fanboys seem to have an incredibly hard time acknowledging that - to them, the problem is with the user. It's user ignorance or user error that brings about any frustration with their fanboy target.

I put Linux weenies in the same category. Yes, I run Linux on my VPS (although that's all being migrated to my in-house Server 2008 R2 box), and I have a netbook-optimized distro of Ubuntu running on my eee PC 701, mostly because I don't use that machine and wanted to dick around. I don't really categorize that as a Linux weenie, though.

I don't think that OS X is a total abject failure and a complete piece of shit. If that were the case, I wouldn't own Macs. It doesn't meet my needs for the level of daily computing habits I engage in. It simply doesn't. There are things about Macs and OS X that I love and wish would be adopted by the rest of the personal computing industry (two that come to mind are application packages/bundles and the built-in bootloader that auto-detects and allows booting from multiple partitions of any attached device), and there are things about Macs, OS X, and Apple software that drive me up a wall when I have to deal with them. Would those same things drive other people crazy? Probably not. I don't like the iLife suite because it's too simplified. iMovie is very limited compared to the capabilities of Windows Movie Maker 2 - but I am the kind of person who likes a lot of options and extra features in an application. Your average teenager or thirtysomething parent isn't interested in those features, which is why iMove is favored by a lot of people for its straightforward simplicity.

Get the picture? There isn't any application or piece of hardware on the planet that is objectively superior to its competitors. Even the PowerPC is still being used in non-personal computing platforms, IIRC.

[shifuimam]

I also still haven't figured out what I'm going to wear to the interview. It just feels wrong to wear jeans.

Maybe corduroy slacks? Less fancy than wool pantsuit-style pants, but nicer-looking than jeans...

[Chuckit]

Like Wiskedjak said yesterday, based on how Apple Store employees I've seen dress, jeans are OK as long as they're fashionable. I mean, this is a chain that allows visible tattoos and odd piercings while on the job. But your idea to go by the store and mimic that sounds good. Just go for whatever style you think looks cool there. Obviously they're OK with that.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Did it make me sell more product? No, I'm pretty sure that my face, boobs, and friendly demeanor had a lot more to do with that than me "believing in Starbucks".

Bingo. So take a clue and dress accordingly.

-t

[shifuimam]

Low-cut see-through top with a black bra, then?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I also still haven't figured out what I'm going to wear to the interview. It just feels wrong to wear jeans.

Maybe corduroy slacks? Less fancy than wool pantsuit-style pants, but nicer-looking than jeans...

Anything but beige corduroy slacks! Don't go in plain.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I get it. Some of you don't think that I have a "right" to work at any Apple-related company or job because I'm not a fangirl.

Too bad. I need a job, and I'm going to the interview whether you think I have a "right" or any "business" doing so. I'm more than qualified for the position I applied for. Whether or not I use Windows or OS X as my primary OS at home does not affect my ability to sell a product, provide good customer service, and repair malfunctioning hardware.

So move the fsck on.

Some people's universes just implode at the thought that the Genius they're interacting with at an Apple Store might not be among the faithful. Kinda like finding out that their priest is also a Satanist. If *you* get the job, it means that *anybody* working at an Apple Store might not be a complete believer.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Low-cut see-through top with a black bra, then?

And high heels, of course

-t

[starman]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I get it. Some of you don't think that I have a "right" to work at any Apple-related company or job because I'm not a fangirl.

No, some of us think that you don't deserve to work there because you called Apple fans some pretty disgusting things, which are archived on the internet. Not only that, but you've personally attacked the CEO of the very company you're applying for.

And now you're going to look those very same people in the eye and help them with a smile on your face.

To use your analogy, it's like a cop getting a job and saying on a web site under a pseudonym that he thinks all people of a certain ethnicity are all criminals.

I warned you years ago that it might bite you in the ass.

Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, its your own words on your own web site. Either man up and admit to yourself that you could have *possibly* screwed yourself, or continue to point fingers at people pointing out your own mistakes.

[turtle777]

Or, we just admit that we all said some foolish things in the past that would probably cause some issues in a job interview.

-t

[besson3c]

"disgusting" things? Is that really the word you intend to use? What were these "disgusting" things?

[starman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

"disgusting" things? Is that really the word you intend to use? What were these "disgusting" things?

"Apple fanboys would suck the j--- out of Steve Job's c---"

Her own words.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by starman 

"Apple fanboys would suck the j--- out of Steve Job's c---"

Her own words.

Whatever, that is just hyperbole used to make a point and crass language, whoop dee doo. Pretty standard fare for the internet.

Why did you mentally document this anyway?

[starman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Whatever, that is just hyperbole used to make a point and crass language, whoop dee doo. Pretty standard fare for the internet.

Why did you mentally document this anyway?

Probably for the same reasons everyone else here did. For the same reasons we all remember things other people say here like you, Cash, me, etc. Your point?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

"Apple fanboys would suck the java out of Steve Job's cup"

Funny thing is, some Apple fanbois would.

-t

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I don't think that OS X is a total abject failure and a complete piece of shit.

Ok, so like don’t put that in your cover letter, alright?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by starman 

Probably for the same reasons everyone else here did. For the same reasons we all remember things other people say here like you, Cash, me, etc. Your point?

I guess I'm just weird then, cause I never remember what people say in here really. I can't even remember what I was writing about a few days ago (although it was probably awesome!)

[starman]

Well, stuff has gotten dug up in here from 10 years ago.

[besson3c]

What did I say when I first came here? Do you remember anything?

[starman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What did I say when I first came here? Do you remember anything?

No, but I do remember Powerbook Dude, I remember the lifeboat, I remember Phil, I remember wdlove. Just look at my sig wall

[iMOTOR]

I seem to recall it was some pro America, pro Bush rant.

[besson3c]

Heh... I think I was into rubber duckies at the time too.

I think that the probability of some Apple employee tracing back shif's resume to her online persona and looking for anti-Apple comments is pretty remote enough to virtually be considered a non-issue.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Or, we just admit that we all said some foolish things in the past that would probably cause some issues in a job interview.

"Was kümmert mich mein Geschwätz von gestern!"

[angelmb]

… you called Apple fans …

… Apple fanboys would …

Fanboyism is the key. Fanboys give lucid Apple users a bad name, and that my friend, does indeed bit us* in the ass most of the times. Big difference.

* sane Apple users

[Peter]

[richwig83]

^^ Good find Peter!

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Whatever, that is just hyperbole used to make a point and crass language, whoop dee doo. Pretty standard fare for the internet.

Why did you mentally document this anyway?

Because there are some people on the Internet who Never. Ever. Ever. Ever. Let. Go.

Of anything.

Ever.

Personally, I've grown out of staying bitter for a decade over shit that happened to me when I was a kid. Sadly, not everyone can say the same.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Because there are some people on the Internet who Never. Ever. Ever. Ever. Let. Go.

Of anything.

Ever.

Personally, I've grown out of staying bitter for a decade over shit that happened to me when I was a kid. Sadly, not everyone can say the same.

So can I assume that you no longer want to punch me in the face?

I was having nightmares about that. I have a very sensitive face that doesn't like being punched. Not to mention, some bruises take away some of my seductive powers.

[starman]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Because there are some people on the Internet who Never. Ever. Ever. Ever. Let. Go.

Of anything.

Ever.

Personally, I've grown out of staying bitter for a decade over shit that happened to me when I was a kid. Sadly, not everyone can say the same.

Keep playing that card because it's the only one you have.

When you get your ass fired because of what you wrote on the internet, be sure and blame someone other than yourself.

Be. A. Man. And. Take. Responsibility. For. What. You. Write. On. The. Internet.

[SpaceMonkey]

It sounds like this interview is shaping up to be as epic as the courtroom scene in A Few Good Men.