[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I don't think that Starbuck's baby is really hers or necessarily a hybrid. Based on her age, she would be much older than Hera and Hera would not be the "first". Starbucks baby is probably not a cylon/hybrid or not hers. Two hybrids reduces Hera's importance. The writers know better than that.

Or, Starbuck's kid is one of the unknown models. Her injury was rather convenient and was quite effective at changing Starbuck's attitude.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Oh you're right. Good, I like the Pegasus better.

And then the show would have to change names to Battlestar Pegasus

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Lazy bastards.

They can make robots roam the streets and gigantic space battles but think a beard will look fake?

Well, in all honesty, I think the CG centurians look incredibly fake too.

Anyways, they said the beard would look fake. But then again, they did the fat suit for Apollo, and that looks pretty fake too. It's like he has the mumps, but only on one side of his face.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Or, Starbuck's kid is one of the unknown models. Her injury was rather convenient and was quite effective at changing Starbuck's attitude.

The writers have already gone on record to say it's her kid.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug

The writers have already gone on record to say it's her kid.

I didn't think they had. Linkage?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug

The writers have already gone on record to say it's her kid.

Where? On the podcast they mentioned it was her and a follow up to the farm episode but they could just be wanting us to be fooled just like starbuck has.

[Eug]

Well he says Casey is the result of Starbuck's missing ovary, although I don't think he says Leoben is the father.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug

Well he says Casey is the result of Starbuck's missing ovary, although I don't he says Leoben is the father.

I've seen it said she believes Casey is her kid, but they don't go as far to say that Casey is her kid.

[Eug]

Well, I must admit that saying that this is a result of the missing ovary can be construed as playing it a bit coy.

Cute kid BTW. She actually looks like the love child of Leoben and Starbuck, too.

[SirCastor]

It seems to me that it would have to be at least half human. We know Cylons and Humans can have kids. We know Cylons and Cylons can't have kids. And it appears that there aren't any children cyclons (as they download to adults)

I think it's Starbucks. I'm not sure if it's Leoben's. I don't doubt that the Cyclons would do it though.

BTW, has anyone noticed that everyone and their dog is married now? I'm all pro marriage, but Cally and Tyrel got Married, Dee and Lee got married, Starbuck and Anders got married, Sharon and Helo are married...
I guess a lot happens in a year...

[reader50]

I'm not sure if the dog is married.

But yeah, I noticed it with the others. Tori is available, and the original Boomer. Gaita seems to be single still too.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

So why is starbuck "special" like they keep mentioning even before she had the baby?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

I think it's Starbucks. I'm not sure if it's Leoben's. I don't doubt that the Cyclons would do it though.

That's a good point. It could be Ander's.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by goMac 

That's a good point. It could be Ander's.

Why would they want it then?

Oh and I bet anders will die eventually.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

So why is starbuck "special" like they keep mentioning even before she had the baby?

Because she has a Minbari soul.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Why would they want it then?

Oh and I bet anders will die eventually.

Dunno. Maybe they altered it or they want to mess with her head.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

So why is starbuck "special" like they keep mentioning even before she had the baby?

I've had a theory for awhile on why the Cylons are particularly interested in Starbuck.

Assume that one of the Cylon motives is to find the Gods and ask for their souls. I know that Leoban has claimed under interrogation to have a soul, but that is probably one of those things where you proclaim it loudly to quiet the doubting voices.

Say the Cylons feel that Humanity didn't pass on what it got. Perhaps the Cylons even did some basic tests. Had one group pray while working on a task, and a control group doesn't. If both groups finish at the same time, then there is something wrong with the connection upstairs.

So while the Cylons are infiltrating the colonies in preparation for the attack, some would be checking out temples. Magicians. Charlatans. Anyone who claims to have supernatural skills, in the hope that it's either a god in disguise, or a mortal partially descended from interbreeding with the gods. They apparently found nothing.

The next place to look would be on Kobol, and I still think the Cylons found Kobol before the fleet did, and even herded the fleet to Kobol. But they didn't find any gods hanging around there either. To Cylon logic, if the gods aren't at Kobol anymore, and they aren't at the 12 Colonies ... then they must have gone on to the 13th colony.

In the meantime, all they have to work with is looking for Humans that may have a trace of gods blood. They would look for anyone who beats the odds. Starbuck would come up high on any list like that.

• She can't seem to be beaten in a space fight, even by adaptive learning computers (raiders). Not without ridiculous odds.
• She gets shot down on an inhospitable moon, and comes back several hours after her oxygen runs out. Without having done the usual courtesy of dying first.
• She fought a model Six, which was both stronger and faster than her. Between two machines, the one with the higher specs usually wins. But in that case, Starbuck was the one who survived.
• She escaped the farm. No one else had.
• She escaped Cylon-occupied Caprica. No one else had since the fleet left.

Admittedly, she had some degree of help on most of those exploits. Still, if I were a Cylon looking for humans who show supernatural ability, I'd be watching Starbuck really closely. They grabbed an ovary. Now, they are trying to do another Helo-Sharon exercise. Get Starbuck in love, and get another hybrid kid. Or something like that.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, they shot some scenes weeks later, after they had shot some future episodes. By that time his beard had already been shaved.

They decided against doing the fake beard thing so they intentionally just glossed over it.

See, ever since I listened to the audio commentary on the first Kobol episode (Season 1, the one where Six shows Baltar the temple and tells him of their child), I've got slightly disillusioned.

Everything in this series seems so slick and seamless and makes so much sense, but alone in that one, there were some MAJOR storyline changes that stemmed from the simple fact that they didn't have the budget to actually build the temple.

Most of this thread seems a little silly in that light, what with people sweating over the meaning of details, most of which probably happened due to forty reasons other than intent, but just seem very consistent, because the writers/director/continuity are good enough to integrate them seamlessly later on, or because the audience WANTS to believe and will somehow construe meaning.

Like the Chief's beard. A production planning bung-up turns into "nice how he had time to shave in Cally's absence. It shows a touch of class."

Note that I'm not knocking the series - I think it's the best television I've seen since Futurama.


BTW, just noticed the ad at the top:

[Sparkletron]

Even when this series was interesting I always felt it was luck more than skill, particularly as kooky details continued to emerge regarding the Cylons and their religiosity and hybrid baby implantation machinations (I mean, jeez, if I wanted to watch shows about aliens impregnating humans I'd watch the History Channel).

The latest season seems to confirm this. Watching a bunch of Cylons in a room bickering over tactics and strategy is like watching a scripted conflict scene on "reality" TV. The occupation seems to me a thinly veiled scenario allowing the writers to make political commentary on the war in Iraq (suicide bombings, etc.). Having the two sides "switch", with the humans becoming cold and merciless and inhumane as they struggle to survive, as meanwhile the Cylons become more human, would have been an interesting twist if they could have pulled it off. But of course they couldn't.

It was better when we didn't know much about the Cylons, when they were alien and mysterious. The writers broke a cardinal rule by revealing way too much way too soon. Meanwhile. if they really wanted to be provocative, instead of suicide bombings, they should have had Starbuck take the baby, snap its neck, and hand it back.

-S

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by reader50 

• She can't seem to be beaten in a space fight, even by adaptive learning computers (raiders). Not without ridiculous odds.
• She gets shot down on an inhospitable moon, and comes back several hours after her oxygen runs out. Without having done the usual courtesy of dying first.
• She fought a model Six, which was both stronger and faster than her. Between two machines, the one with the higher specs usually wins. But in that case, Starbuck was the one who survived.
• She escaped the farm. No one else had.
• She escaped Cylon-occupied Caprica. No one else had since the fleet left.

Don't forget flying a raider

[Dark Helmet]

Didn't Leoban explained to starbuck how the baby gets certain things from her and the spiritual side she gets from him? Doesn't that confirm he is the father?

Also why does Leoban always maintain to starbuck that all the suffering she went through in the past has a reason that will become clear.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Didn't Leoban explained to starbuck how the baby gets certain things from her and the spiritual side she gets from him? Doesn't that confirm he is the father?

You're taking what he said at face value.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

You're taking what he said at face value.

That is why I put a ?

Either you believe it, he is lying or he is interpreting it in a different way.

[andi*pandi]

oh, he's lying.

[olePigeon]

I think Starbuck is putting him on for a false sense of security, then she'll make her escape. At least, I hope she is.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I think Starbuck is putting him on for a false sense of security, then she'll make her escape. At least, I hope she is.

OK, I'm going to say it here first. I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes.

The little girl is a fully-grown mind uploaded to the child. Just my hunch on this.

How creepy would that be? Also, how pissed off would Starbuck be when she found out?

I think they figured out how to engineer smaller, growing bodies, but not how to reproduce exactly. That's why she's stuck there with the toaster. And the "offspring."

[andi*pandi]

that would indeed be super-creepy.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by finboy 

I think they figured out how to engineer smaller, growing bodies, but not how to reproduce exactly. That's why she's stuck there with the toaster. And the "offspring."

If Agent bodies are close enough to human that they can pass medical examinations, then odds are they all grow in much the same way human bodies do. The Cylons likely accelerate the growth of their bodies in order to keep a good supply going, but all they'd have to do is stop the growth at the right point and they could get a child body with no problem.

Take a Number Six body, stop its growth at childhood, and perform just a little plastic surgery on it, and you'd have a child that could easily pass for Starbuck's daughter. Hell; you might not even need surgery.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

If Agent bodies are close enough to human that they can pass medical examinations, then odds are they all grow in much the same way human bodies do. The Cylons likely accelerate the growth of their bodies in order to keep a good supply going, but all they'd have to do is stop the growth at the right point and they could get a child body with no problem.

Take a Number Six body, stop its growth at childhood, and perform just a little plastic surgery on it, and you'd have a child that could easily pass for Starbuck's daughter. Hell; you might not even need surgery.

Do the Cylons age? Do they die of old age?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Do the Cylons age? Do they die of old age?

There's no evidence that Cylons age at all. Due to the whole same-actor thing, all the Cylons of a given model look exactly the same age.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

There's no evidence that Cylons age at all. Due to the whole same-actor thing, all the Cylons of a given model look exactly the same age.

Right. So it stands to reason that Helo Agathon will grow and get old but Sharon Agathon will remain the same age. My that is interesting.

It does seem, however, that the 7 known models are not the same age. The "doctor" seems to be in late 30s or so, Sharon mid 20s...etc. Thoughts?

[reader50]

My guess is that the humanoid models are all clones grown to standard ages for their models. I'd also guess that once released, they will age normally from that point on.

With the ability to download to a fresh body when needed, it would not be a priority to track down all the genetic issues that cause aging. We already know that low-priority genetics didn't get fixed because Sharon had problems with her pregnancy. Doc Cottle even commented about it - they "hadn't upgraded the plumbing".

I'd expect Sharon Agathon to age. However, unlike other Cylons, she won't be able to shift to a new body to become young again. Well, she could ... but it would mean becoming an instant POW. More likely, a lifelong ticket to a Cylon lab to figure her out.

It does stand to reason that the Cylons could interrupt the growth process at any desired younger age. Seems like they could do a special older run too. The writers may have gone that way, it allows for some "extra" models without directly using up all 12 slots.

note: Don't expect the Cylons to show any aging yet. Within the BSG universe, only a bit over two years have passed since the miniseries began. ~9 months from the attack to the New Caprica settlement. 13- months to the beginning of the Occupation, 4+ months to the present. So around 26 months. The 9 months from Attack to New Caprica comes from this: the settlement came at the election. During Bastille Day, Lee mentioned that the election was required in 8 months. I assume Bastille Day happened around a month or less after the original Attack.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by reader50 

note: Don't expect the Cylons to show any aging yet. Within the BSG universe, only a bit over two years have passed since the miniseries began. ~9 months from the attack to the New Caprica settlement. 13- months to the beginning of the Occupation, 4+ months to the present. So around 26 months. The 9 months from Attack to New Caprica comes from this: the settlement came at the election. During Bastille Day, Lee mentioned that the election was required in 8 months. I assume Bastille Day happened around a month or less after the original Attack.

You assume that humanoid Cylons didn't exist until just before the nuking of Caprica?

[reader50]

Not exactly, more like we haven't seen the humanoid models at any earlier time. So their appearance hasn't changed much since when we first saw them.

Good point though, we've seen several recycles. The fresh bodies (of course) looked the same age as the previous ones.

This discussion will probably yield to the practicalities of filming. The real actors will force the models to age. Pity, because the idea is quite interesting. The makeup people may be able to help some, but I'm hoping BSG stays on the air for a long time.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Not exactly, more like we haven't seen the humanoid models at any earlier time. So their appearance hasn't changed much since when we first saw them.

Good point though, we've seen several recycles. The fresh bodies (of course) looked the same age as the previous ones.

This discussion will probably yield to the practicalities of filming. The real actors will force the models to age. Pity, because the idea is quite interesting. The makeup people may be able to help some, but I'm hoping BSG stays on the air for a long time.

I thought I heard something about there being five planned seasons. If that's the case and they stick to it, then they won't have to worry about aging all that much. The only characters likely to age visibly would be Starbuck's kid and Hera/Isis, and it's quite possible that they don't intend for these characters to be permanent anyway.

[Dark Helmet]

I found a silly mistake in the last episode.

It is when they rescue the people who were going to get executed. The Priest Cylon is laying there bleeding and someone says to him "I hope it hurts a good long time before you go to download city". Then the Cheif stands right next to the Cylon and yells at Lora, "don't worry, we're all going home. Adama is on his way etc...".

Shortly after the cylon dies and we see the new body chatting it up in a Cylon meeting and doesn't share that important info.

[Chuckit]

The Chief has probably been shouting about how Adama is on his way for months.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

The Chief has probably been shouting about how Adama is on his way for months.

Not if you watch it.

Cally ask him "What do we do now"

Chief:"We're going home, all of us... admiral.."

[Demonhood]

i didn't think he said it all that loudly.
altho i had the same thought at the time. "shut it Chief! dean stockwell is going to hear you!"

[SirCastor]

I just watched the scene, There's nothing that shows that Dean Stockwell (number 5??) was next to the chief. Tyrol was next to a truck, Bro. Cavel was next to a truck, but as I recall there were four trucks and they may have been plenty far apart...

Also, FWIW, Bro. Cavel was experiencing some pretty nasty pain, he probably wasn't eavesdropping...

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

I just watched the scene, There's nothing that shows that Dean Stockwell (number 5??) was next to the chief. Tyrol was next to a truck, Bro. Cavel was next to a truck, but as I recall there were four trucks and they may have been plenty far apart...

Also, FWIW, Bro. Cavel was experiencing some pretty nasty pain, he probably wasn't eavesdropping...

Ya we can make up all sorts of "it isn't clear" but either way the cheif YELLED to people a few meters away about a rescue and a cylon was at the truck right in front of the one the chief was standing at.

[reader50]

The woman rebel started near (at?) the first truck and started down the line, cutting wire ties. It isn't clear from the pictures where Cavel ended up at. When Roslin and Zarek came back up, they and the Chief are beside the 2nd truck. I got the impression that Cavel ended up farther back.

Of course, I got the impression when the trucks first drove up that he was riding in the first truck.

If you assume that both conversations took place at the same time, then it's understandable why he missed the Chief's comments.

Good catch, btw. Sensitive plans are not supposed to be handed out in public, with enemies nearby.

[SirCastor]

I don't think that the Chief yelled it at all. He said it loudly enough for the people directly around him to hear it. Oh well, it's not that important anyway...

[reader50]

This BSG-related picture has been making the rounds. I've no idea where it originated. Unfortunately, it's a little too wide to post inline.

If anyone remembers Teriq Aziz, the Iraqi Information Minister, then enjoy this.

Click to open in separate tab or window

[Dale Sorel]

Originally Posted by reader50 

This BSG-related picture has been making the rounds. I've no idea where it originated. Unfortunately, it's a little too wide to post inline.

[SirCastor]

That's hilarious reader50

[Teronzhul]

Aww, Casey was just someone else's kid; she wasn't some freaky mini-six. Damn them for writing something that makes sense. Good episode.

Oh, and Galacticas jump into the atmosphere was pretty freakin sweet.

[Lateralus]

I am so appreciative of this show...

[RAILhead]

So why did Tigh have to kill his wife if they were being rescued? Thoughts?

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

So why did Tigh have to kill his wife if they were being rescued? Thoughts?

Lingering sense of duty mixed with Anders' message that if Tigh didn't kill her, someone else would do it for him, and probably make sure that she felt a lot more pain in the process.

[Sourbook]

Originally Posted by Teronzhul 

Oh, and Galacticas jump into the atmosphere was pretty freakin sweet.

It was awesome. Pegasus ramming the base-star also looked very nice. What am I saying. the whole Galacta/Pegasus raid looked really great. Special effects made a grand return to the show today.

It looks like Baltar will join the Cylons and continue his decent into a much more evil character. I'm looking forward to seeing how he interacts on a Cylon ship. He will probably try to work his way up the Cylon chain of command. This will also give the writers more opportunity to explore the Cylon psyche.

And somehow, word of Hara's survival will have to reach the fleet. I wonder how they'll do that?