[Adam Betts]

Nice but I'm surprised they would do this as they have greater hatred for subtitle/closed captioning than any other movie companies. I know this well as it's well known issue among deaf community that they refused to allow any subtitled Sony movie at theater, for DVD's features/extras or anything related to subtitles.

Also I wouldn't exactly call this feature innovative. VLC have this feature for ages

[icruise]

It might be mostly a concession to the Japanese market, since all foreign films are going to be subtitled for use in Japan.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by marzetta7 

Blu-ray.com is a great website to follow the format wars. Some would point you to AVS forums, but that area has been overrun with Microsoft employees working hard to push HD DVD.

HAHA! So AVS is biased, but Blu-Ray.com is a bastion of unbiased information???

A *real* website that is probably best for updates is the High-Def Digest:
High-Def Digest | HD DVD & Blu-ray News and Reviews in High Definition

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Cue post from goMac about how those numbers actually show that HD-DVD is on the rebound.

Why? The numbers don't really show any trend. You can't use those numbers to really argue that HD-DVD is dying either...

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

HAHA! So AVS is biased, but Blu-Ray.com is a bastion of unbiased information???

A *real* website that is probably best for updates is the High-Def Digest:
High-Def Digest | HD DVD & Blu-ray News and Reviews in High Definition

Actually, I agree with you with the HighDefDigest website as well, a forum I'm also a member of. So no disagreeing with you there.

As for Blu-ray.com, yes, I consider it a well balanced forum, that doesn't attack and shut down posts that talk about the competition such as AVS. Nor is rampant with fanboys with no logic or facts to back up their claims,...too bad the same can't be said for AVS.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Why? The numbers don't really show any trend. You can't use those numbers to really argue that HD-DVD is dying either...

Back on May 25th you were ready to claim that one week's numbers indicated that HD-DVD was in "an upswing." But you see no trend in six weeks of dismal HD-DVD performance? Interesting. What would a format that was dying look like?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by marzetta7 

Actually, I agree with you with the HighDefDigest website as well, a forum I'm also a member of. So no disagreeing with you there.

As for Blu-ray.com, yes, I consider it a well balanced forum, that doesn't attack and shut down posts that talk about the competition such as AVS. Nor is rampant with fanboys with no logic or facts to back up their claims,...too bad the same can't be said for AVS.

You may like the Blu-ray.com forum, but that doesn't make it unbiased. It's a site dedicated to being biased.

At least AVS has sections for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

[Hawkeye_a]

Hello folks.

Well.... i think BR-DVD has taken the early lead (and very possibly the format war alltogether).
-The fact that all but 1 studio is releasing movies in the BR-DVD format
-The fact that blockbuster (which is not just a U.S. rental outlet) has moved behind BR
...is enough in my opinion to tip the scale firmly in blu-ray's favor.

I have to admit i was wrong about HD-DVD.....it had all the right ingredients to win, based on previous format wars, but it's execution/release was absolutely horrible.... the fact that Sony was bundling the BR-DVD into PS3 should have raised quite a few eyebrows in the HD-DVD camp and prompted them to release their players and movies well in advance.....they didnt.

Moving beyond the HD format war...... despite whats happening on the gamng front, Sony might actually see sales of it's PS3 pick up thanks to the Blu-Ray capabiity now that the format is probably going to snowball.

I'm not sure how fast the adoption of HD is... im willing to wager that DVD players are still outselling them on a global scale. So yeah..... i hope Sony wont be all weird in terms of licensing stuff to the folks at Apple for use in future software/hardware.

Cheers

[jokell82]

Calling the "war" for either side is just stupid at this stage of the game. The sales numbers are minuscule compared to DVD. It's a niche market inside a niche market.

Blu-Ray has about a 3:2 lead right now, but that's not nearly as big of a deal as people are making it out to be, especially at this stage of the game.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Hello folks.

Well.... i think BR-DVD has taken the early lead (and very possibly the format war alltogether).
-The fact that all but 1 studio is releasing movies in the BR-DVD format
-The fact that blockbuster (which is not just a U.S. rental outlet) has moved behind BR
...is enough in my opinion to tip the scale firmly in blu-ray's favor.

Wow, someone's in check with reality for a change

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Back on May 25th you were ready to claim that one week's numbers indicated that HD-DVD was in "an upswing." But you see no trend in six weeks of dismal HD-DVD performance? Interesting. What would a format that was dying look like?

It still is. The weekly numbers are generally higher than the yearly numbers, which means HD-DVD's market share is growing.

[icruise]

There, I was waiting for that post.

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

You may like the Blu-ray.com forum, but that doesn't make it unbiased. It's a site dedicated to being biased.

At least AVS has sections for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

Actually, if you knew anything about Blu-ray.com, you'd know they have a sister site called hd-dvd.com. In other words, they--the site owners--have sites dedicated to both...just that no one really goes into the hd-dvd forum since most people saw the writing on the wall for HD DVD from the beginning.

Regardless, my intention here is not to get in a pissing contest with you as to who and what is a biased or unbiased source (as everyone has a bias) of the format wars. The intention is to answer the OP's original question on where to get information. I think we both have done so quite successfully, so why don't we leave it at that.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by marzetta7 

Actually, if you knew anything about Blu-ray.com, you'd know they have a sister site called hd-dvd.com. In other words, they--the site owners--have sites dedicated to both...just that no one really goes into the hd-dvd forum since most people saw the writing on the wall for HD DVD from the beginning.

Regardless, my intention here is not to get in a pissing contest with you as to who and what is a biased or unbiased source (as everyone has a bias) of the format wars. The intention is to answer the OP's original question on where to get information. I think we both have done so quite successfully, so why don't we leave it at that.

Or maybe no one goes there because there is no website.

And what writing in the wall is that? The writing that has HD-DVD with 60% of player sales? Yeah they're really struggling right now.

[olePigeon]

I'm just going to wait it out. DVD's good enough for me right now. There're only a handfull of movie I enjoy that would be worth getting on HD.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

And what writing in the wall is that? The writing that has HD-DVD with 60% of player sales? Yeah they're really struggling right now.

Don't worry. By their market share standards, the PS3 is dead, the Macintosh was dead yesterday, and BMW is bankrupt.

If it doesn't have a majority market share it must be dead!

[Kerrigan]

So you're anticipating that HD-DVD will drop below 5% market share in the future?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Don't worry. By their market share standards, the PS3 is dead, the Macintosh was dead yesterday, and BMW is bankrupt.

If it doesn't have a majority market share it must be dead!

Well, it's a bit different in the case of Blu-ray and HD-DVD, isn't it? From the point of view of the consumer, they are offering an identical product (yes Eug, we know that HD-DVD has some superior features). And since most businesses and consumers can't or won't support both of them indefinitely, one or the other has to "win." (Unless of course dual-format players become the standard, making the format of movies essentially moot.)

[Kerrigan]

Ya, physical formats have rarely, if ever, shared the stage on the market place. HDDVD will have to go the way of Betamax... yes Sony continued making Betamax videos until recently, but who actually bought them?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Well, it's a bit different in the case of Blu-ray and HD-DVD, isn't it? From the point of view of the consumer, they are offering an identical product (yes Eug, we know that HD-DVD has some superior features). And since most businesses and consumers can't or won't support both of them indefinitely, one or the other has to "win." (Unless of course dual-format players become the standard, making the format of movies essentially moot.)

Why? Companies so far seem to be perfectly happy to support both formats.

I think it will end up like DVD+R and DVD-R. Eventually everyone who uses optical discs will have combo players (just like everyone has combo burners now), and nobody will care about the format they buy the disks in. And the studios will continue to produce both HD-DVD and Bluray.

One format doesn't have to win, and so far, it doesn't look like one format will win (as much as I like HD-DVD).

[icruise]

As I have said repeatedly, the combo player route might very well work, but only if they can get the cost down, and soon. The point is that there has to be a solution that will allow all users to access all content, just as we have with DVD and CD. This business of some movies only being offered on one format or the other can't last.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

yes Sony continued making Betamax videos until recently, but who actually bought them?

Mostly TV studios.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Ya, physical formats have rarely, if ever, shared the stage on the market place. HDDVD will have to go the way of Betamax... yes Sony continued making Betamax videos until recently, but who actually bought them?

XBox, Playstation, and Wii games seem to coexist just fine. I fail to see the difference when it comes to movies...

I'd *rather* have Blu-Ray go the way of the dodo, because who wants all that DRM and Sony BS, but if both stay on the market I don't see the problem.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

XBox, Playstation, and Wii games seem to coexist just fine. I fail to see the difference when it comes to movies...

That's pretty much what I was thinking two pages ago.

SACD/DVD-Audio coexist, right?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

That's pretty much what I was thinking two pages ago.

SACD/DVD-Audio coexist, right?

Kind of, if you can call what they have existence.

[icruise]

The difference between game consoles and movie players is a pretty big one. They're just totally different markets.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

The difference between game consoles and movie players is a pretty big one. They're just totally different markets.

And the difference between home video and home audio? Is that just as big of a difference?

[marzetta7]

Annnnnnd in case you all were wondering, the results are in and Blu-ray is steady maintiaining its sales lead for the week ending June 17th...

Nieslsen/VideoScan Numbers ending June 17th

NXTbook flash detection page

WE: BD-64% HDD-36% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-59% HDD-41%

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by marzetta7 

Annnnnnd in case you all were wondering, the results are in and Blu-ray is steady maintiaining its sales lead for the week ending June 17th...

Nieslsen/VideoScan Numbers ending June 17th

NXTbook flash detection page

WE: BD-64% HDD-36% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-59% HDD-41%

Considering BluRay was the only one to release a movie this week, that doesn't come as a surprise at all. Next week should be good, though, as here are the releases:

* American Me (HD DVD)
* Army of Darkness (Re-issue) (HD DVD)
* Being John Malkovich (HD DVD)
* The Big Lebowski (HD DVD)
* Black Snake Moan (Blu-ray)
* Black Snake Moan (HD DVD)
* Bulletproof (HD DVD)
* Dead Silence (HD DVD)
* Freedom: 1 (HD DVD)
* Hustle & Flow (Blu-ray)
* Hustle & Flow (HD DVD)
* Mallrats (HD DVD)
* Meet Joe Black (HD DVD)
* Mystery Men (HD DVD)
* Unleashed (Re-issue) (HD DVD)
* The Watcher (HD DVD)

No Blu-Ray exclusives, and only 2 movies for BR. 12 exclusives for HD, and 14 total.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Kind of, if you can call what they have existence.

Not really. Unlike HD-DVD & Blu-Ray they aren't marketed.

Originally Posted by icruise 

The difference between game consoles and movie players is a pretty big one. They're just totally different markets.

I'd say the line is getting blurred. Coincidence that both consoles support different formats? Hell, both consoles are manufactured by companies with a stake in the war.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

And the difference between home video and home audio? Is that just as big of a difference?

If you're referring to SACD/DVD-Audio, I'd say they might as well not exist from the consumer's point of view. To 99% of the populace, there is only one (non-HD) format for video, and one for audio.

There are some people who argue that the video game industry would be better off with one type of hardware as we have for DVD (and presumably will have with one of the HD formats as well). And it would be admittedly nice for the consumer in some ways, but so much of the game market now is driven by the consoles competing with one another (and by the console makers financing the blockbuster titles for this purpose) that it would take a total reorganizing of the industry for that to work. The bottom line is that for various reasons, having separate consoles works better and is more profitable for the console makers.

With video, on the other hand, there is no real benefit to segmenting the market in this way, and I don't see them doing it on a permenant basis.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

With video, on the other hand, there is no real benefit to segmenting the market in this way, and I don't see them doing it on a permenant basis.

But with dual platform players, to the end consumer there is no market segmenting. You have CD/MP3 CD players for cars and no one argues that that is a segmented market.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by icruise 

The difference between game consoles and movie players is a pretty big one. They're just totally different markets.

I agree the cost of development for multiple consoles is massive compared to multiple HD formatted media.

Originally Posted by goMac 

But with dual platform players, to the end consumer there is no market segmenting. You have CD/MP3 CD players for cars and no one argues that that is a segmented market.

Only problem is, you have people whining and crying over $400 Blu-ray players, why would they be in the market for a $1200+ for a combo player? You can get both players for $500 less, which is what you see most of now. Right now combo players aren't a blip on the screen.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

But with dual platform players, to the end consumer there is no market segmenting. You have CD/MP3 CD players for cars and no one argues that that is a segmented market.

Again, I agree with you. I just think there is a good chance that BR is going to get enough inertia early on that that the combo players won't enter into the picture. If they were anywhere near the one-format players in price, it would be a different matter. But I suspect by the time that happens, BR will have gotten enough of a lead that it might not make sense to continue with dual formats. The combo players might still have a market for people who own HD-DVD libraries and who want to switch to BR while still being able to play their old stuff, but they might not become the standard.

[icruise]

Nyko just announced an IR-based remote control (and receiver) for the PS3. Probably doesn't solve the problem of turning the unit on remotely, but at least there is a mainstream retail solution now, and you don't have to try and track down the old PS2 remote with receiver. Of course, you can use the remote to program a universal remote, so you don't actually have to use their remote control.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Lets just admit no matter what the pro BR news even if they are at 90% sales over HD you will just discredit it one way or another.

Errr... His point is very valid. That quote was from a Panasonic executive, and Panasonic is a Blu-ray patent holder. Panasonic declaring Blu-ray the winner is equivalent to Sony declaring Blu-ray the winner.

By the way, it was interesting to read about the Blu-ray consortium meetings a few months back. Panasonic was absolutely LIVID with LG, after LG announced their hybrid player, even though the LG is actually quite crappy for HD DVD playback.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

If you're referring to SACD/DVD-Audio, I'd say they might as well not exist from the consumer's point of view. To 99% of the populace, there is only one (non-HD) format for video, and one for audio.

To be fair, HD discs don't exist to 99% of the populace. HD Televisions are still pretty much a niche market, and only a small percentage of HDTV owners actually have an HD player.

[icruise]

Buy any Blu-ray player (including the PS3) between July 1st and September 30th and get 5 free Blu-ray movies. Don't know the details of it yet, though.

Blu-ray.com - Blu-ray News - Five Free Blu-ray Movies with Purchase of Player

[hmurchison2001]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Buy any Blu-ray player (including the PS3) between July 1st and September 30th and get 5 free Blu-ray movies. Don't know the details of it yet, though.

Blu-ray.com - Blu-ray News - Five Free Blu-ray Movies with Purchase of Player

It'll be interesting to see how many Blu-ray fans call this a "Firesale" or "Desperation"

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by hmurchison2001 

It'll be interesting to see how many Blu-ray fans call this a "Firesale" or "Desperation"

Don't you understand? Blu-Ray has to do this because they're taking it in the chin so badly right now. They've resorted to giving movies away just to sustain the format. You'll notice that HD-DVD doesn't have to resort to such measures.




I can't wait to see all the backpedaling.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I can't wait to see all the backpedaling.

I hope you're not implying that Bluray is doing this to compete with HD-DVD. As we all know HD-DVD is a dead format that no one ever buys, and as such Bluray has no reason to ever compete with HD-DVD.

I'm sure the Bluray group thought of this 5 free movies thing completely separately of the HD-DVD crowd.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

SACD/DVD-Audio coexist, right?

Not really. There isn't any popularity with either format. Kind of like DAT and MD coexisted, right?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Not really. There isn't any popularity with either format. Kind of like DAT and MD coexisted, right?

That comparison is invalid. The DAT was (and so a smaller extent still is) used extensively in professional audio environments and replaced analog tapes and reels, and the MD was created to replace consumer CDs.

Despite how popular the formats are, they are/were able to coexist without a prolonged "war." And they exhibit very similar progressions in quality over CDs as Blu-Ray and HD-DVD have over DVDs...

[goMac]

USB2 and Firewire co-exist. Remember the days when only one was supposed to "win"?

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by goMac 

USB2 and Firewire co-exist. Remember the days when only one was supposed to "win"?

That's true, but haven't they ultimately fallen into one being for a certain set of products and the other being found on a different set of products?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

That's true, but haven't they ultimately fallen into one being for a certain set of products and the other being found on a different set of products?

Sure, but why can't HD-DVD and Bluray be the same? HD-DVD for content that needs more interactive features and menuing, and Bluray for higher capacity.

As much as I like HD-DVD, there is no reason both formats could not co-exist. The movie companies can continue fighting for their formats (Sony can still do Bluray only, and Universal can still stick with HD-DVD), but it takes the battle out of consumer land. It also gives me a choice. I can buy HD-DVD titles when available, but buy Bluray on titles where I have no choice.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Sure, but why can't HD-DVD and Bluray be the same? HD-DVD for content that needs more interactive features and menuing, and Bluray for higher capacity.

As much as I like HD-DVD, there is no reason both formats could not co-exist. The movie companies can continue fighting for their formats (Sony can still do Bluray only, and Universal can still stick with HD-DVD), but it takes the battle out of consumer land. It also gives me a choice. I can buy HD-DVD titles when available, but buy Bluray on titles where I have no choice.

And I don't see why any consumer could have a problem with this scenario. I'd *prefer* an HD-DVD win, but this would be just fine for me too.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Sure, but why can't HD-DVD and Bluray be the same? HD-DVD for content that needs more interactive features and menuing, and Bluray for higher capacity.

As much as I like HD-DVD, there is no reason both formats could not co-exist.

Neither do I.

Originally Posted by goMac 

It also gives me a choice. I can buy HD-DVD titles when available, but buy Bluray on titles where I have no choice.

Well put.

[ort888]

http://www.uwants.com/attachments/da...KlYCq8WthG.jpg

Just like with the HD-DVD offer, you get your choice of any 5 crappy movies you want. (and Blazing saddles, which is a great movie, but isn't exactly the best example of a flick you want in hi-def)

[jokell82]

Look up about 10 posts.