[tritonus]

Originally posted by kerl:
hi tritonus

so your replacement machine showed a different behavior than the initial one? i got mine a week ago (1ghz), and it's exactly the same thing... the first machine was week 46, the second is week 50, so me too i think the change in machines after 12/6 is a myth. i couldn't find any difference between the machines, they both show exactly the same behavior...
that's all kind of sad, as i still feel disturbed by the noise when doing work, especially while programming... and i didn't buy this machine to spend hours in forums, i actually wanted to work with it...

Hi kerl

Yes, with my new machine, the right fan comes on when necessary and goes off again. I browse the web, answer e-mails and write stuff in Word X. I don't do programming, thus I don't force the G4 that much as you.

Production change after 12/6 is a TOTAL MYTH. My new one ist QT248 (week 48). The fan is not really loud when on. Have you tried working on battery?

The only problems I have with my new one are:

1) lower right corner of the unit squeaks, case not tightly fit

2) latch to cover the rear ports doesn't open well

3) battery anormalies: I could work on battery at first, but suddenly my machine crashed when plugging AC and was unable to boot (battery of course full). I went to a local dealer, tried with an exchange battery, nada. I called for DOA, but Apple had its support system down during the holidays. The worked a couple of days, and the PB "saw" the battery again, indicating orange power light. So I'm really confused if something is wrong with contact between battery and unit. I am afraid the loss of battery will happen again. I did nothing to lose it, and I did nothing to repair it! The problem came and went all by itself.

I will get all things checked again next week. The only way I can do this is with a DOA check (Apple told me).

Tsch�ss,
Marcel

[kerl]

Hi tritonus

Could you tell me how long the right fan stays on / off, and how often it changes? On what surface do you use your titanium?

Of course I don't have the problem when working on battery, but this isn't a nice solution in my eyes (I don't like using such 'workarounds' when I paid a ****-load of money for a machine...)

About your other points:

1) This issue appeard in every unit i saw during the last few months (even on 800 DVI machines). Since I saw that, I stopped being concerned about mine (I guess the same will happen now with the fan...). As long as you only can move it half a milimeter or so, it's ok. It doesn't mean that something is broken in the inside.

2) How hard is it to open? Of course it shouldn't be too easy, otherwise it would open in unwanted situations

3) that sounds odd. Did you try resetting the PMU and the PRAM?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449

good luck!

[CyberPet]

Originally posted by tritonus:
Petra:

With my old unit, the right fan never went off. The fan in the middle was only on when the processor was some/heavy use. It quickly went off. So should yours!

Are you sure you don't have a process open that is running your processor do death? Have you tried reinstalling OS X and going for the preinstalled software at first? What's your process viewer showing? If it's some high use, the fans must stay on, I guess. Maybe you have a normal machine?

Marcel

As soon as I got the machine I reformatted the harddrive, made 3 partitions and installed OS X and OS 9 on diffrent partitions.

Even when I were setting up the computer - BEFORE the reformat - the secondary fan started. It never came off. I thought it was due to all the work I was doing with the reformat, the partition, installs etc.

Before I installed any other software than the software that came with OS X, I was playing around with Mail, Explorer etc. The fan had the same behaviour then as it has today.

I normally use the web browser (Chimera) and Mail.app the most. The first fan comes on after about 10 mintes then it doesn't take more than perhaps 5 minutes and the second fan kicks in (and never stops.

I'm not sure if Chimera and Mail.app are process hungry, but I doubt it. The Process Viewer doesn't show any abnormalities, like the processes being close to 100%, it's around 25-30% and sometimes peaks at 100% - pretty normal in other words. Wouldn't you say?

I've tried running without anything hooked up to the computer, not even ethernet or modem cable nor the power. The behaviour is the same even then, once the second fan starts it never turns off.

This is not normal and it's so annoying that Apple in Amsterdam claims the secondary fan behaves normally. It doesn't... I wonder if they even did run any software at all?

It's good to know that several of you are reporting "normal" behaviour of the secondary fan, which means I can tell Apple that other people's computers are behaving as I'm expecting mine to behave.

One thing that would be interesting to try is to run the same softwares and make a comparission, i.e. have no other software running but these few that we both have in comon and messure when the secondary fan comes on and when it turns off.

Any takers? If so, perhaps those of you who are willing to do this could email me, or we could start a seperate thread on this issue (so it doesn't drown in this thread).

[CheesePuff]

I'll be getting my PowerBook G4 1 GHz w/ ComboDrive (*not* SuperDrive) in 2 days (Tuesday, the 7th).

I'll tell you all the week build date, as well as loudness of the fan and when it comes on, with the AC adapater plugged in and when its running on battery.

But, most of you can agree that the fan is much quieter while running on battery?

[CyberPet]

Feels like I've written half this thread.... The ongoing saga of my fan problem continues.

Now I've got an explaination why the PowerBook was only in Amsterdam, Holland for less than a day:

Communication problems!

Like I told you before in this thread, I had my PowerBook sent to Holland. They shipped it back almost within an hour when they got it, which was very puzzling to me.

No problems found, According to Apple.

When I got it back I notice the problem was still there (i.e. the second fan never turns off) and called Apple Support again. I was then connected to Customer Service and the girl there looked into the matter (their system was down over new years so it took a while).

Today she emailed me and had notice that *I* had reported problems with the secondary fan, but the technicians at Apple in Holland had only checked the main fan (first fan, the right-hand fan or whatever you want to call it) which I know works normal and it's not included in my complaint.

Sooo... the story continues. My "book" will probably be sent away once again this week, and now hopefully they will check the secondary fan and why it never turns off. Hopefully they'll do a extensive examination this time and not just turn it on and say "oh it works" and send it back again.

Keep your fingers crossed!

[granticus]

I have got a 1Ghz Combo drive and when I first switched it on I was so amzed that it was silent, I had an old iBook 466 which had a hard drive that wined but no fan, I was disapointed when this fan started up as it although it is more bareable than the wine of my old iBook hard drive it is a similar distraction. The right fan is on all the time when connnected to power and does blow out hot air which can except but did they need to make it draw so much power that it needs a fan? I would rather have a 10 hour charge time than a constant fan? The middle fan does stay on I would say 85% of the time although my room is fairly warm but is is quite loud, I can understand this but surely they should have designed it so that the reduced processor speed option ment that the chip ran cool enougth to need the fan half as much I notice no difference to fan use when reducing the processor speed so that is anoying.

Anyway the reason I posted is I have a little program I picked up a while ago that measures processor temp and thought this might help people who have the problem monitor the temp to see why the fan stays on so long, I dont know how accurate it is but it does go up and down. It seems to hover around 42-47oC for me and fan has gone of when it stays below 39oC but comes on and takes ages to go of if it goes above that for longer than a minute or so(guess). You should ignore the processor speed that is wrong, if you want to measure all that download the current version from http://www.sonnettech.com but this old version you can get from http://www.sonnettech.com/downloads/...onome_v145.hqx they took it out of the newer versions because they could not garuantee how accurate it was but it might help and if it is not the correct temp it is an idicator of when it is hot or cool?.

Cheers.

[DVD Plaza]

Wouldn't you know it, the 17" PowerBook is announced and my replacement 1GHz PowerBook finally arrives today (my 1GHz was DOA'd due to fan noise/etc).

BUT, since this is obviously a brand-new unopened PowerBook I spoke with the manager of the Apple Centre I purchased through about upgrading it to the new 17" model. Unfortunately yet good, albiet unannounced by Apple, all the PowerBook's have been reduced in price - so whilst my Apple Centre will do what they can to upgrade my unopened PowerBook they reckon I'll probably have to cough up the ~$500 lost value in that machine in addition to paying the difference between the models.

Waiting for final confirmation within the next 24 hours, but I reckon I'll do that... that 17" is one awesome beast!!!!

Hopefully it doesn't have any fan noise, being a bigger machine it might be able to dissipate heat better?

[DVD Plaza]

I haven't yet heard word on what the upgrade cost would be, but they did phone back to advise that now that the replacement 1GHz has arrived they need to send my faulty one back.

To that end I've spent tonight on my 800DVI, since I've transferred everything back.

And...

MY GOD - SILENCE!!! I've just ticked over the THREE HOUR mark, and the only noise I've heard thus far was at 1 hour 58 minutes when the almost DEAD SILENT fan kicked in. At the 2 hour mark the fan turned up its speed and therefore got a touch louder, and at 2 hours 1 minute it went silent again. Been silent ever since, as I said now at the 3 hour mark.

I know I've been frustrated by the chronically noisy fan in my 1GHz, but boy I had forgotten just how silent this 800DVI is...

[kerl]

Yes, the 800DVI is a very nice machine. I finally decided to get the money back from applestore and get a used 800DVI. The only thing that disturbs me with this machine is the slow harddisk, and to solve this problem one can get the Toshiba MK6021GAS 60GB Disk (the one that is used in the 1GB Powerbook) quite cheap.
I prefer a 20% slower computer (which is not really a lot, you won't notice it after a day of use) that doens't distract me. The overall gain in productivity is bigger than 20% I loose in speed.
Working with the 800DVI at night, with no music is just so peacefull (a word of a workaholic, i guess...)
For all those who are looking forward to get the 17", i have a question: What are you looking for: A laptop or a desktop computer? Imagine carrying around this board and beeing paranoid all the time about breaking it... it's just too big. But there's one advantage: if you already have a snowboard bag, you can use this one as the laptop bag as well.
Bigger is not allways better, and less is sometimes defenitely more.

btw: check out the new apple browser, it's very nice and fast: http://www.apple.com/safari. They based it on the open source project konqueror which is used as the standard browser in the linux kde window manager.

[tritonus]

My second PB G4 867 is getting tested for DOA today, due to the battery problems.

If it is DOA indeed, I am allowed to return it to the dealer and get a new box. What are chances that I can trade the box for a 17" AluBook when paying the price difference? As I can see, PB G4 867 Combo has still the same price.

I'd like the 17", as I use it mostly as desktop replacement. And I've had it with my 15" getting DOA'ed twice.

[DVD Plaza]

My 1GHz SD fan problems are now irrelevant - my replacement 1GHz arrived yesterday and today I have declined it and instead upgraded to the new 17" PowerBook.

Woohoo... !GULP!

[k2director]

Congrats, DVD PLaza. I'm looking forward to hearing about your 17"er. Not sure if I will spring for that, or a revised 15" when it arrives.

BUT...just a note to encourage you NOT to accept Apple taking $200 off the value of the Ti Gig you just returned. You bought it when it was $2999, and due to a defect (ie not your fault, but their's) you were not able to get full use/enjoyment that you were entitled to. And after much hassle and time wasted on the issue, you shouldn't be penalized $200 when Apple decides to reduce the price. You're still entitled to $2999 dollars worth of a perfectly functioning machine, since you never got it in the first place!

Of course, if they won't go for this arguement, they won't go for it, but I would press it firmly before giving up and swallowing the loss...

[CyberPet]

Congrats!

I was told that as long as an Apple Center doesn't say that the PowerBook I own (with a faulty secondary fan) is a Lemon I won't get my money back or a replacment, even if the Swedish law says something else. *sigh*

Still waiting for the THIRD evaluation on my problem, I sure hope I get some good news. DOA or a fixed machine doesn't matter, I love the size of the 15" version so I'm not sure I want the 17".

[hippy3]

Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
My 1GHz SD fan problems are now irrelevant - my replacement 1GHz arrived yesterday and today I have declined it and instead upgraded to the new 17" PowerBook.

Woohoo... !GULP!

Fantastic mate... I am the same I got a full refund from the online apple store and ordered my 17incher yesterday.... I can't wait...

[kuzzy]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'll add a few comments on the behavior of my center fan. I have a 1Ghz/SD model with 1GB RAM (my first PowerBook). My usage pattern is probably 60% surfing, 20% office type apps, 20% video/audio/graphics type apps.

On battery it may take about 25-30 minutes or so during surfing for the center fan to come on. If I quit everything it takes about 20-25 minutes to go off. The fan does eventually go off even if I continue surfing but takes longer. The fan comes on sooner with higher CPU intensive stuff.

Overall fan behavior is acceptable for the on/off time periods. I will agree with some other people that have posted that the center fan has a whining quality on top of the airflow sound. Certainly if the whining sound was absent I would probably never hear the center fan at all. That is my only gripe about the center fan because the right sided fan does not have any whining sound, just quiet airflow.

For what is worth, my brother has a year old Sony VAIO 800 mHz PIII laptop and as soon as it is turned on there is a noticeably loud hum from the fan that is essentially constant and is certainly louder than the whining center fan on my PowerBook.

I have contemplated having the whiny fan looked at, and still may, but everything else is perfect and I have no previous PowerBooks to compare experiences with. Hopefully the next PowerBook I buy won't have a whiny fan.

This forum has certainly taught me that Mac users are finicky and probably rightly so, but maybe we all should worry about other things.

[CyberPet]

Originally posted by kuzzy:
This forum has certainly taught me that Mac users are finicky and probably rightly so, but maybe we all should worry about other things.

That's why we bought a Mac in the first place, we are picky and only wants the best.

[kuzzy]

I hear you CyberPet. I should have said that whiny fan or not, nothing beats my PowerBook, certainly not any PC laptop. Got to love the Mac!

[tritonus]

Just for your information: My second PB 867 Combo was also DOA. I returned it to my dealer yesterday and managed to upgrade to the 17" PB 1000 SD! I got a full refund for the 867 that I used to pay the 17".

Now, I just have to wait for 7 to 10 weeks Looking forward to my desktop replacement!

CyberPet, how are you doing?

[CyberPet]

Originally posted by tritonus:

CyberPet, how are you doing?

I'm doing good, but my PowerBook isn't.

The PowerBook was sent in for the third time, they did say "there is a problem with the fans" and they did replace the logic board.

Today I got a message that the fans now behave more normally (but the technician weren't that convinced) but the new logic board seem to have been faulty becuase the PowerBook started to crash extensivly. So the technician has now ordered another new logic board that he hopes will work.

What happens if it won't work... I have no clue.