[ort888]

Yeah, people are way to touchy about this stuff.

At any rate, a poster on another board I frequent works for Warner in their DVD authoring department.

The rumor he has heard (again, just a rumor, but it's coming from the inside) is that Warner didn't take a lump sum of cash, but rather got $350 million bucks worth of incentives to go Blu-ray.

So no, they didn't get a payout, but yes, there was a monetary reason to go exclusive.

[zerock]

anyway thanks to the warner announcement as said before, will make apple decide to go with bluray finally.

although.. i have a new mac and doubt ful i will buy one for a few years.. those lacie drives may come down in price... (wishful thinking)

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by zerock 

anyway thanks to the warner announcement as said before, will make apple decide to go with bluray finally.

Apple has been on the Blu-ray wagon from the start.

Originally Posted by zerock 

although.. i have a new mac and doubt ful i will buy one for a few years.. those lacie drives may come down in price... (wishful thinking)

Why don't you just build your own external?

You can buy the same drive and an equally nice enclosure for $300~ from NewEgg.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Not really champ. You bought an xbox for $400 + $200 for the Hd-DVD player and YOU NEVER PLAY GAMES ON IT!
You spent more on that glorified HD-DVD player than it would have cost you to get a PS3.

You don't get it. I want a standalone, because I'm less than enthused about using a console as my primary player.

P.S. I bought the Xbox 360 initially not because of HD DVD, but for:

1) iTunes streaming and iPod music playback
2) Xbox Live Arcade
3) Xbox 360 gaming.

...and because I got a whole bunch of Future Shop gift cards on my birthday. (Remember, I bought my 360 in the spring.)

I didn't get HD DVD until 8 months later, because it came out for, you guessed it, $199. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

I don't see what is better about that sorry.

Apparently.

[Kerrigan]

Not only is one a loser for caring this much about high def formats, but the least one could do is pick the winner instead of becoming a loser again on yet another level.

[Oversoul]

I think we need to stop trying to sell Eug on a PS3. He's already stated he'll go Blu when a Profile 1.1 or 2.0 player is available for $199. Even with the added clarity following Warner's announcement, there are going to be people still on the fence waiting for the right specs, price, or titles. It's just a matter of time.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Oh shut up. They didn't need payment. They looked at the sales and it was always getting better for Blu-ray. Please go back to your Nintendo and never buy a Mac with Blu-ray in it if you hate it so much.

Care to revise that statement in light of the other information posted in this thread? I don't think the payment was Warner's primary motivation, but what you are suggesting is they were stupid enough not to take the money offered to them.

Today I wrote Warner and told them that I won't be buying any Bluray discs from them. I actually don't plan on buying Bluray discs at all. In fact, I wouldn't have supported HD-DVD if it wasn't for managed copy. With all this I'm back to digital downloads. I don't plan on putting up with Sony when they start re-enabling region coding, and when managed copy dies a quiet death. Have fun repurchasing all your content next time around, everyone.

Edit: Hey! Look's like it's already started. Sony has raised the price of the BDP-S300 back to $400.
Category Page Blu-ray Disc Players

[starman]

LOL. You actually wrote to them to tell them that? I'll bet they frame it.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Care to revise that statement in light of the other information posted in this thread? I don't think the payment was Warner's primary motivation, but what you are suggesting is they were stupid enough not to take the money offered to them.

All I've seen are rumors and hearsay from someone with a supposed trusted inside source who was allegedly close to the negotiations. On the other hand, Warner's president is on record as denying that anywhere in upwards of $500M was exchanged for Blu-ray exclusivity. Contrast this with Paramount promptly acknowledging that cash was given as "promotional consideration" for their exclusivity.

Even if cash was given to Warner, it's really a matter of HD DVD calling the kettle black because (1) they were the ones to do it first with Paramount and Dreamworks, and (2) if the rumors are to be believed, then HD DVD was courting both Warner and Fox with offers (likely in the form of more payments) to go red. HD DVD just got beat at their own game and now they're crying sour grapes.

I'm inclined to believe Warner's president when he's on record as saying no cash was exchanged in the deal over vague rumors and hearsay. Especially so because as a publicly traded company such a payment would be reported on its financial statements. Again, I'm not saying no incentives were given to Warner (I fully expect there were), but stop believing every desperate bit of speculation out there and spouting it as fact.

Originally Posted by goMac 

Today I wrote Warner and told them that I won't be buying any Bluray discs from them. I actually don't plan on buying Bluray discs at all. In fact, I wouldn't have supported HD-DVD if it wasn't for managed copy. With all this I'm back to digital downloads. I don't plan on putting up with Sony when they start re-enabling region coding, and when managed copy dies a quiet death. Have fun repurchasing all your content next time around, everyone.

Digital downloads don't have their own form of proprietary codecs and DRM?

Personally, I'd rather not have to keep buying hard drives on top of the movie download price (which Hollywood studios are likely to insist to be comparable to their physical media, as in the current bruhaha over iTunes pricing) to store a growing digital library especially with movies topping 10GB at a minimum. Or, for that matter, lose my entire library if I ever suffer a hard drive crash. That, and I'd actually like to have a physical copy of a movie I buy.

As for managed copy, it's party of the Blu-ray spec. Will Blu-ray support mandatory managed copy?. Yes, it's mandatory for Blu-ray movies and voluntary for hardware, but that hardly is the fault of Warner. Even so, I'm sure some crafty kid out there will figure out a way to crack Blu-ray's DRM sooner or later if making copies of your disc is that important.

Originally Posted by goMac 

Edit: Hey! Look's like it's already started. Sony has raised the price of the BDP-S300 back to $400.
Category Page Blu-ray Disc Players

Who buys from SonyStyle? That's Sony's official store, so of course they'll stick close to their MSRP. The player is available much cheaper elsewhere (Amazon, $316; Costco's BDP-S301, sub-$300).

[Chongo]

I'm going to wait for the 2.0 players to hit the stores before I buy a BD player. Like all the 1.0 player owners, I don't want to get stuck with a player that won't run the newest disks.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

When you put the disc in it automatically powers on so that's not an issue.

You don't want to think about leaving it on all the time.

[UPDATE: All the info I can find on the 40GB, says it uses 32.5% less power than these numbers. I calculated those numbers in bold. Link]

Regardless... Still you wouldn't want to leave that sucker running 24/7.

Average power consumption while playing games:
Wii - 17.8 watts
XBox 360 - 185.1 watts
PS3 - 193.6 [130.68]

Average power consumption (idle):
Wii - 13.5 watts
XBox 360 - 157.54 watts
PS3 - 177.17 [119.59]watts

Average power consumption (standby):
Wii (Connect24 off) - 1.3 watts
XBox 360 - 2.5 watts
PS3 - 1.9 [1.28]watts <- My personal option

Power Consumption Report

Holy crap. The Wii rocks.

And holy crap the Xbox 360 and PS3 waste energy. I'm impressed that the PS3 is as quiet as it is, considering the previous version actually uses more watts than even the power hungry 360.

My A2 uses 37 watts at idle, and not much more during playback. I keep it off though since when off it's less than 1 watt.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

All I've seen are rumors and hearsay from someone with a supposed trusted inside source who was allegedly close to the negotiations. On the other hand, Warner's president is on record as denying that anywhere in upwards of $500M was exchanged for Blu-ray exclusivity. Contrast this with Paramount promptly acknowledging that cash was given as "promotional consideration" for their exclusivity.

Warner hasn't said they weren't paid off, and there are certainly a lot of rumors from different corners that they were.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Even if cash was given to Warner, it's really a matter of HD DVD calling the kettle black because (1) they were the ones to do it first with Paramount and Dreamworks, and (2) if the rumors are to be believed, then HD DVD was courting both Warner and Fox with offers (likely in the form of more payments) to go red. HD DVD just got beat at their own game and now they're crying sour grapes.

I realize that. I just am tired of this "holier than thou" attitude from the Bluray fanboys.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

I'm inclined to believe Warner's president when he's on record as saying no cash was exchanged in the deal over vague rumors and hearsay. Again, I'm not saying no incentives were given to Warner (I fully expect there were), but stop believing every desperate bit of speculation out there and spouting it as fact.

He said the cash wasn't the reason that they switched, not that they didn't accept any cash.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Digital downloads don't have their own form of proprietary codecs and DRM?

I have confidence that something will be worked out. I hope that the movie studios learned from the experience of the music studios and DRM, and will hopefully come up with one shared format. Part of me hopes it will be something based on HDi.

I currently have investments in both iTunes and XBox Live. I'll be evaluating over the next several weeks what I want to do. Currently it's down to iTunes + Apple TV vs. Windows Media Center + XBox vs. Amazon Unbox + TiVo. I hate to say it but Apple is kind of behind on this. Unbox is already compatible with Windows Media Center and the XBox. I really would hate to get a Windows machine, so I'll see what Apple has in store...

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Personally, I'd rather not have to keep buying hard drives on top of the movie download price (which Hollywood studios are likely to insist to be comparable to their physical media, as in the current bruhaha over iTunes pricing) to store a growing digital library especially with movies topping 10GB at a minimum. Or lose my entire library if I ever suffer a hard drive crash. That, and I'd actually like to have a physical copy of a movie I buy.

People said the same thing about digital music when that started up. In a few years, hard drives will be pretty standardly in the 4-8 terrabyte range and it will be a foregone conclusion. I'm already planning on buying a Mac Pro with 4 drives. Before I was going to work out a way to rip HD-DVD's onto it, but now I'm going to have to change content sources. If managed copy software ever gets released on the HD-DVD front for Mac, I'll buy some HD-DVD's and rip those, but that doesn't look so likely anymore...

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

As for managed copy, it's party of the Blu-ray spec. Blu-ray.com - Blu-ray FAQ. Yes, it's mandatory for Blu-ray movies and voluntary for hardware, but that hardly is the fault of Warner. Even so, I'm sure some crafty kid out there will figure out a way to crack Blu-ray's DRM sooner or later if making copies of your disc is that important.

I have a feeling it will quickly be buried. The only reason they put it in the spec is because they were competing with HD-DVD. With HD-DVD gone I don't think they'll complete it. If they do, I'll reconsider.

Ripping for me is not a great solution. The advantage of managed copy was you got the entire disc, including menus and extras. The only advantage to ripping is I'd be getting the 1080p version of the movie, but digital downloads would save me a trip to the store while providing me with the same content.

My wish list to Apple at this point basically consists of:
• 720p with 5.1 just like XBox Live.
• Downloading of content from the AppleTV.
• Automatic downloading of season passes on the AppleTV.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

I'm going to wait for the 2.0 players to hit the stores before I buy a BD player. Like all the 1.0 player owners, I don't want to get stuck with a player that won't run the newest disks.

I figure we'll be waiting forever if we wait for a half decent low-priced 2.0 player.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

All I've seen are rumors and hearsay from someone with a supposed trusted inside source who was allegedly close to the negotiations. On the other hand, Warner's president is on record as denying that anywhere in upwards of $500M was exchanged for Blu-ray exclusivity. Contrast this with Paramount promptly acknowledging that cash was given as "promotional consideration" for their exclusivity.

Even if cash was given to Warner, it's really a matter of HD DVD calling the kettle black because (1) they were the ones to do it first with Paramount and Dreamworks

True story (from several months ago):

Reporter: Did you accept promotional incentives from Blu-ray for your exclusivity?
Disney: I'm not gonna comment on that.
Reporter: So does that mean you're denying you got incentives?
Disney: I didn't say that. I'm not denying it. I'm just not commenting on that.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Warner hasn't said they weren't paid off, and there are certainly a lot of rumors from different corners that they were.
...
He said the cash wasn't the reason that they switched, not that they didn't accept any cash.

Except that they have said they weren't paid off.

From Warner: No Payoff for Move to Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

Warner Home Entertainment President Kevin Tsujihara says the studio took no pay-offs to exclusively back Blu-ray.

In a post-announcement conference call, Tsujihara flatly denied rumors that studio had accepted anywhere from 250M to $500M in exchange for dropping its HD DVD format support.

And from Engadget HD

[O]n a recent conference call when asked about any "compensation" Kevin Tsujihara, president, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group said that it "was not a bidding war" and that it really came down to Q4 sales, specifically in the International markets -- then he wanted to know if we had any idea where they could collect the $500 Million.

Originally Posted by Eug 

True story (from several months ago):

Reporter: Did you accept promotional incentives from Blu-ray for your exclusivity?
Disney: I'm not gonna comment on that.
Reporter: So does that mean you're denying you got incentives?
Disney: I didn't say that. I'm not denying it. I'm just not commenting on that.

See, that's what I mean. If Warner did accept a pay-off, they could just say "No comment." It's neither an answer nor denial and it's always done by company officers and their PR people. But Warner's president went on record denying that Warner took no pay offs for their exclusivity. I'll give that a little more veracity. Note, however, Tsujihara denies Warner accepted any pecuniary pay off, but this doesn't mean Warner isn't getting some sweet incentives that will save Warner the same cash equivalent.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Care to revise that statement in light of the other information posted in this thread? I don't think the payment was Warner's primary motivation, but what you are suggesting is they were stupid enough not to take the money offered to them.

I couldn't care less if they took money. That's business. I don't know why people are harping on this. Nobody betrayed anybody or is acting in an underhanded manner. Two sides were bidding and one of them won.

Today I wrote Warner and told them that I won't be buying any Bluray discs from them. I actually don't plan on buying Bluray discs at all.

That is hilarious.

In fact, I wouldn't have supported HD-DVD if it wasn't for managed copy. With all this I'm back to digital downloads. I don't plan on putting up with Sony when they start re-enabling region coding, and when managed copy dies a quiet death. Have fun repurchasing all your content next time around, everyone.

I have no idea what you are thinking here. Digital downloads are somehow less DRMed than Blu-ray? What real-world advantage do you get from digital downloads over physical discs (keeping in mind, of course, that Blu-ray also has a form of managed copy in the works).

And what does repurchasing content have to do with anything? How does downloading movies save you from the studios' attempts to get you to repurchase content? If anything, I would think physical discs would be the better choice in this regard. If you're happy with the HD versions of your movies (and I think we're getting to the point where you're not likely to get much better, quality-wise) then you can keep them forever if you like. If the company that sold you the digital download goes belly-up, you may suddenly be unable to authorize your computer to play them.

Edit: Hey! Look's like it's already started. Sony has raised the price of the BDP-S300 back to $400.
Category Page Blu-ray Disc Players

How much was it before? And you do realize that prices often change right after Christmas, right?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Reporter: Did you accept promotional incentives from Blu-ray for your exclusivity?
Disney: I'm not gonna comment on that.
Reporter: So does that mean you're denying you got incentives?
Disney: I didn't say that. I'm not denying it. I'm just not commenting on that.

So... That basically boils down to "no comment."

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I have no idea what you are thinking here. Digital downloads are somehow less DRMed than Blu-ray? What real-world advantage do you get from digital downloads over physical discs (keeping in mind, of course, that Blu-ray also has a form of managed copy in the works).

Once I have a digital download it will always work the same. I can stream it, I can transfer it to a digital media player. I can put it on a digital media player and take it to someone else's place, regardless of what player they have, and play it on their tv. I don't have to buy an optical drive for every tv I want to play the content. I can pay upgrade fees to get higher quality versions of the content as opposed to buying a new disk (with iTunes Plus as the example). I've already put the kibosh on buying any music on CD. All my music is digital and legally purchased, and it has been for quite a while. As I write this, my music is streaming from iTunes to my XBox 360 without me having to fumble with CD's.

I already commented on Bluray managed copy in my last reply.

Originally Posted by icruise 

And what does repurchasing content have to do with anything? How does downloading movies save you from the studios' attempts to get you to repurchase content? If anything, I would think physical discs would be the better choice in this regard. If you're happy with the HD versions of your movies (and I think we're getting to the point where you're not likely to get much better, quality-wise) then you can keep them forever if you like. If the company that sold you the digital download goes belly-up, you may suddenly be unable to authorize your computer to play them.

Because the movie industry will eventually switch disk formats again. And when they do they will get everyone to rebuy their movies. On the other hand, on XBox Live I can redownload the latest version of the content again for free. iTunes charges a fair upgrade price for my music so I don't have to pay the full price again.

In fact, if HD-DVD had managed copy out right now I could go to the store, buy a bunch of HD-DVD's, managed copy them, and not give a care to Bluray killing HD-DVD because I could play my content without any HD-DVD drive at all.

iTunes is more and more becoming DRM free, and I buy all my content in iTunes Plus when possible. As I said earlier, I think the movie companies will probably come up with a shared DRM system to prevent the vendor lock in that the music companies got themselves into.

Originally Posted by icruise 

How much was it before? And you do realize that prices often change right after Christmas, right?

It was $299 before, and a lot of people here were talking about Bluray reaching the magical $300 price point.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Except that they have said they weren't paid off.

I've read the quote from them, and again, they did not say that they took no money. Numerous insiders have said that they took money, and a Microsoft insider has already verified that Fox and Warner were talking about both switching to HD-DVD, which verifies the other part of the story. I think Engadget has it wrong here. If you actually read what Warner said they didn't deny taking money.

I don't really care one way or the other, whether they took money or not it's over. But I find that the idea that Warner was trying to get Fox to go HD-DVD significant.

[Oversoul]

I'm don't have as much faith in Apple (or any other company) with regard to my digital downloads. They're still companies out to make a buck from the consumer, sometimes however they can. When Apple began selling TV episodes, the resolution of these downloads was 320x240 (QVGA); when the iTunes Store began selling Hollywood movies, Apple increased the quality of their downloads across the board to 640x480 (VGA). There was no upgrade option and you were either stuck with your lower quality purchase or had to buy a new copy for the same, full price. I don't ever expect Apple to offer an upgrade option on their movie downloads if and when they switch to HD downloads, even if I already own a license to that title with the iTunes Store.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

I'm don't have as much faith in Apple (or any other company) with regard to my digital downloads.

Apple has been pretty good with music downloads so far, I'm hoping they get their video act together at MacWorld. Of course, once one of the video stores starts offering their content DRM free, vendor lock in becomes a mute point.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

They're still companies out to make a buck from the consumer, sometimes however they can. When Apple began selling TV episodes, the resolution of these downloads was 320x240 (QVGA); when the iTunes Store began selling Hollywood movies, Apple increased the quality of their downloads across the board to 640x480 (VGA). There was no upgrade option and you were either stuck with your lower quality purchase or had to buy a new copy for the same, full price.

I've been using XBox Live for my video downloads. So far it's been great, although it would be nice to see them add more content. The real reason I'm hoping Apple upgrades their video store is that the XBox media interface is really awful. Honestly, it's the only thing thats ever made me look at a PS3. The AppleTV has a great interface, and when you disassemble the software on it, it looks like Apple intends to add 3rd party plugin support. With 3rd party plugin support you could easily add software for something like TV tuner support.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

I don't ever expect Apple to offer an upgrade option on their movie downloads if and when they switch to HD downloads, even if I already own a license to that title with the iTunes Store.

I think when Apple switched to 640x480 they were inexperienced. Most consumers, when faced with having to pay for their digital content all over again will just end up pirating a higher quality version. An upgrade fee is more palatable for your average consumer, and I think Apple figured that out with iTunes Plus.

For TV series I have been fine with 640x480. I've got an external drive full of iTunes TV shows, and I keep The Office from iTunes on my main drive (Apple, work something out with NBC.) When I get my Mac Pro after MacWorld I plan on setting up a hard drive dedicated to my media (I'm actually trying to decide whether or not I should use OS X Server). My network is already moved to IPv6 so that I can get to my media from anywhere in the world I have a connection to the IPv6 internet (which is admittedly not very many places right now). I moved my wired network to gigabit so I should be able to more easily push my content around, and I've got a few Airports acting as extenders right now with an Airport Express connected to a stereo system. My iPod video was setup to carry my TV shows to parties and stuff, but I'm yet to get video cables for my iPhone.

I actually bought a G4 Cube as a media server about a year ago. I hooked up an external drive to it and it worked ok, but I think I'd rather have the heft and the internal drives of a Mac Pro. Besides, it's time to upgrade anyway.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Holy crap. The Wii rocks.

And holy crap the Xbox 360 and PS3 waste energy. I'm impressed that the PS3 is as quiet as it is, considering the previous version actually uses more watts than even the power hungry 360.

My A2 uses 37 watts at idle, and not much more during playback. I keep it off though since when off it's less than 1 watt.

Wow dude, you really need to take a chill pill. I'm sure cheap DVD players use little power too but what's your point exactly?

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I've read the quote from them, and again, they did not say that they took no money. Numerous insiders have said that they took money, and a Microsoft insider has already verified that Fox and Warner were talking about both switching to HD-DVD, which verifies the other part of the story. I think Engadget has it wrong here. If you actually read what Warner said they didn't deny taking money.

I don't really care one way or the other, whether they took money or not it's over. But I find that the idea that Warner was trying to get Fox to go HD-DVD significant.

David Vaughn is not and insider. Real insiders from SPHE who have attended numerous BDA events have said that David is not an insider. If David is your "source", then you are believing just some blogger guy with a subscription to Home Media Magazine to get early Nielsen number alerts.

All of your "sources" are all just referring back to the same rumor monger. I'm afraid that you have fallen for a wild goose chase.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

David Vaughn is not and insider. Real insiders from SPHE who have attended numerous BDA events have said that David is not an insider. If David is your "source", then you are believing just some blogger guy with a subscription to Home Media Magazine to get early Nielsen number alerts.

All of your "sources" are all just referring back to the same rumor monger. I'm afraid that you have fallen for a wild goose chase.

Yes, I'm sure all of the sources I have cited are wrong, while you are right.

The theory that Warner was trying to get Fox to go with them to HD-DVD fits perfectly with Warner trying to end the format war. I'm not sure why you're so resistant to it. It's not like they were successful...

[Helmling]

The bottom line is that Warner and the other studios have gotten a whiff of a future with NO disc formats and they don't like it--they know that the profits from HD downloads won't be as high as what they could make from Blu-Ray, so Blu-Ray it is. Anyone following this knows that Sony forfeited the leading spot in the video game market to Microsoft in order to sell Blu-Ray players and win the format war. Now, with Warner's move and the Q4 sales, it's paid off. Sony won--for once. The specter of digital downloads replacing all movie sales and laying waste to Hollywood's cash cow the way the CD market has been gutted is not palatable to the studios. They are finally seeing that and it's just a shame that all involved didn't have this oh-so-obvious revelation a bit sooner and save all the BD owners some anxiety and the HD-DVD owners a whole bunch of money by consolidating into one format from the beginning. Dreamworks and Paramount will have to suck it up in the next few months and forfeit that kick-back because the writing's on the wall.

Mark my words: Normandy is stormed. The Red Army is advancing in the east. The fatherland is being defended by old men and little boys. The war is over...one side just doesn't know it yet.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I've read the quote from them, and again, they did not say that they took no money. Numerous insiders have said that they took money, and a Microsoft insider has already verified that Fox and Warner were talking about both switching to HD-DVD, which verifies the other part of the story. I think Engadget has it wrong here. If you actually read what Warner said they didn't deny taking money.

I don't really care one way or the other, whether they took money or not it's over. But I find that the idea that Warner was trying to get Fox to go HD-DVD significant.

What's significant is that Warner knew it was the format war that was the problem. Their pick of a horse is almost arbitrary, but the result is that their pick is the de facto winner. I'm telling you, game over.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

What's significant is that Warner knew it was the format war that was the problem. Their pick of a horse is almost arbitrary, but the result is that their pick is the de facto winner. I'm telling you, game over.

I don't disagree that Warner was trying to end the format war, and I don't disagree that it's game over for HD-DVD. Hence me abandoning any plan for using HD-DVD.

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm sure many of the Betamax people sounded much like the HD-DVD people just about now.

At least we have a clear winner at this point.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I'm sure many of the Betamax people sounded much like the HD-DVD people just about now.

At least we have a clear winner at this point.

Ironically, we were Beta people. Had it for years and years. The difference is that Beta was better, as Blu-Ray is marginally superior. I think the whole HD thing is a mess and a scam, though. I remember when the computer industry lobbied the TV guys to make HD resolutions that made sense, but instead we got this 480,720,1080 crap. Now this format war for the discs...they're idiots and so are all of us early-adaptors.

At least I'm out of hot water now. My wife was mad at me after she found out that we wouldn't be able to buy the "new" disc for Transformers. She thought I had probably screwed up and bought the wrong format. So now every once and a while she asks me to check the HD news and see who's winning. The sales numbers and Warner announcement have gotten me out of the doghouse for my $500 PS3 purchase.

[hyteckit]

Not jumping onto the Bluray wagon anytime soon.

Why take the risk twice? Both Hidef platforms could be losing formats. I know HDDVD is basically dead now that Warner has going Bluray exclusive, but Bluray is not out of the water yet.

With my $200 HDDVD player, I can still watch over 400 titles available for it. I'll just rent them from Netflix. Doesn't make any sense to me to abandon ships and jump to Bluray.

Like most consumers, I tend to watch a movie once or twice. Without the PiP and web interactivity, it doesn't really make sense for me to buy the movie unless I plan to watch the movie more than once or twice. I don't see myself rushing to buy a Bluray player and buying Bluray movies without the PiP and web interactivity features. I have a Hidef player with a library of 400 titles, so it'll last me until the dust settles on the Bluray side.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Holy crap. The Wii rocks.

And holy crap the Xbox 360 and PS3 waste energy. I'm impressed that the PS3 is as quiet as it is, considering the previous version actually uses more watts than even the power hungry 360.

My A2 uses 37 watts at idle, and not much more during playback. I keep it off though since when off it's less than 1 watt.

A Ferrari also uses more gas then a Kia.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by ort888 

A Ferrari also uses more gas then a Kia.

So the Kia wins in terms of gas mileage.

[Lateralus]

And bang for buck.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I'm sure many of the Betamax people sounded much like the HD-DVD people just about now.

Oh, you'd still find them years after Beta died, extolling the virtues of their dusty betamax players and wailing on about how they wuz robbed. Kinda sad really.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

With my $200 HDDVD player, I can still watch over 400 titles available for it. I'll just rent them from Netflix. Doesn't make any sense to me to abandon ships and jump to Bluray.

... and you'd see the Beta guys at the video library, scouring their ever-thinning shelves for a title they hadn't already seen 400 times.

Most of those guys finally caved and bought a VHS deck (shortly before DVD came out).

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Oh, you'd still find them years after Beta died, extolling the virtues of their dusty betamax players and wailing on about how they wuz robbed. Kinda sad really.


... and you'd see the Beta guys at the video library, scouring their ever-thinning shelves for a title they hadn't already seen 400 times.

Most of those guys finally caved and bought a VHS deck (shortly before DVD came out).

Big difference here is that all the newest movies will be available on DVD for a few years. Since my DVD player and HDDVD player plays DVDs, I'm not missing out on any new movies. Just won't have the Hidef version of some newer releases. No reason for me to jump onto the Bluray bandwagon anytime soon. I only jump onto the HDDVD bandwagon in Nov. 2007 because players were below $200. Now I have access to 400 Hidef titles plus all the new releases on DVD, so there is no urgency to jump onto Bluray.

[Brien]

Originally Posted by starman 

No. I had a $125 LD player. I also had a $1000 LD player. Movies were $80 from Fox, $24.95 from Warner.

Stupid Fox and their pricing. It's just like with BD. Warner, 25 bucks, Fox, 40 bucks. Stupid Fox.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Apple has been pretty good with music downloads so far, I'm hoping they get their video act together at MacWorld. Of course, once one of the video stores starts offering their content DRM free, vendor lock in becomes a mute point.

DRM is going nowhere so get used to it. All the companies shedding DRM for music sales are just doing so for public relations but it will be back because there's nothing wrong with it. It's the organised piracy clans who creating the whoopla against DRM because it makes their job harder.

With rentals coming to iTunes DRM is the only way to do it right otherwise you have to install auto-destruct software to destroy files after the rental period has passed. That type of system could work but wouldn't prevent unrestricted copying and would be worrying to have on any computer if it had bugs.

iPod, Apple TV and iPhone content is also coming to Blu-ray rental discs. You'll be able to rent a disc from Blockbusters and on it will be a DRM'd video file you can synch to your iTunes library. From the moment you copy it to iTunes you will have 24 hours to watch it or you can click the buy button next to the title to purchase the movie or extend the rental period. This is only possible with Blu-ray because the disk's space allows a full HD movie, HD extras, high quality audio AND finally the HD video file you can copy from the disk to purchase.

And that folks is the method that is being chosen for now to deliver HD movies to computers because the online only method consumes massive bandwidth and increases the cost of running ISPs who would pass the cost to subscribers. Until bandwidth improves we will see HD delivered on discs instead of just online.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Sony won--for once.

Except I wish those HD-DVD maniacal fanboys would shut up about Sony. Blu-ray was mostly Panasonic's technology and the forum was a lot bigger than Sony. When you get into the details of all the arguments against Blu-ray you will notice that it was from little minded people who had bought a Nintendo or an X-Box 360. Their attacks were not exactly against Blu-ray but a conceited attack on the PS3 using the disc format as a cover. A console made them feel insecure about themselves. Rather sad.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The other problem with the PS3 is that the DVD upscaling is no better than my HD-A2, which is mediocre. .....I know you don't understand the sentiment, but the point is the PS3 simply is not a standalone. Some people prefer standalones to consoles and I'm included...

The upscaling is not great on the PS3??? How is that judged anyway? Have you seen upscaling on a PS3? I think you're not only wrong your just making excuses. If you didn't know that the PS3 played games how would you even know it's not a standalone either? It works fine as a standalone for me. I got one because it's the best Blu-ray player for the money and the best upscaler and I don't play games.

Originally Posted by goMac 

Once I have a digital download it will always work the same. I can stream it, I can transfer it to a digital media player. I can put it on a digital media player and take it to someone else's place, regardless of what player they have, and play it on their tv. ....

You don't even hear what you're saying. You can take your digital media player to someone's place regardless of what player they have??? Well I can take my Blu-ray player to someone's place regardless of what player they have too!

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Big difference here is that all the newest movies will be available on DVD for a few years. Since my DVD player and HDDVD player plays DVDs, I'm not missing out on any new movies. Just won't have the Hidef version of some newer releases. .

You mean you won't have the Hidef version of ANY newer releases. Just cry about it for another week and get a nice Blu-ray player when the next one comes out. That's what I was going to do if HD DVD won. Geez, what a baby.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Because the movie industry will eventually switch disk formats again. And when they do they will get everyone to rebuy their movies. On the other hand, on XBox Live I can redownload the latest version of the content again for free. iTunes charges a fair upgrade price for my music so I don't have to pay the full price again.

Maybe they will change the disc format in 15 or 20 years. What makes you so sure iTunes or XBox live even still exist then?

And who says those services allow you to upgrade your content to newer formats? When iTunes movies switched from 320x240 to 640x480 you had to repurchase.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Maybe they will change the disc format in 15 or 20 years. What makes you so sure iTunes or XBox live even still exist then?

Certainly they'll keep evolving and merging as business partnerships and alliances change. A unified cross platform format for video will very likely finally be agreed upon if the Mac platform grows enough to challenge Microsoft's installed user base. But brick and mortar retail sales will always be the most important method of distributing movies because of the amount of employment it generates from manufacturing to transport to sales and from the property business to everything else. If you hurt brick and mortar sales too much then the whole economy suffers and you end up with less consumer confidence all around. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that the sale of discs keeps many people employed.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Certainly they'll keep evolving and merging as business partnerships and alliances change. A unified cross platform format for video will very likely finally be agreed upon if the Mac platform grows enough to challenge Microsoft's installed user base. But brick and mortar retail sales will always be the most important method of distributing mvies because of the amount of employment it generates from manufacturing to transport to sales and from the property business to everything else. If you hurt brick and mortar sales too much then the whole economy suffers and you end up with less consumer confidence all around. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that the sale of discs keeps many people employed.

Dude I really don't think that's what the movie companies care about. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that the goal of any corporation is to reduce the number of people on the payroll as much as possible. I'd be nice if they cared about people and the economy etc but in theory and in truth they only care about money, in fact legally a corporation's primary duty is to maximize profits.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

You mean you won't have the Hidef version of ANY newer releases. Just cry about it for another week and get a nice Blu-ray player when the next one comes out. That's what I was going to do if HD DVD won. Geez, what a baby.

Don't be a silly Bluray fanboy. Oh course HDDVD will have new releases. For at least another year. You think everyone who doesn't already own a Bluray player will now buy a Bluray player tomorrow? Silly silly fanboy.

If someone wants a Hidef player and doesn't already own one, I would recommend a Bluray player. But, why would I want to risk getting a Bluray player for $500 even though I already have a Hidef player? I already have a hidef player that plays over 400 titles. I'll wait a year or two until Bluray players standardize on profile 1.1 or 2.0. I'll wait until Bluray player drops below $200. Silly to drop $500 on a Bluray player when it'll still a risk and prices on Bluray player will drop.

I'm perfectly happy watching HDDVD exclusives, the existing 400 HDDVD titles, and all new movies releases on DVD. It's not like I won't ever get a Bluray player. I will get a Bluray player when it's pretty certain it will replace DVDs and when it drops below $200. Silly silly Bluray fanboys thinks everyone should run out to get a Bluray player.

[starman]

Well, there's really no hope for HD DVD at this point. I would also tell people to get a BR player.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

Well, there's really no hope for HD DVD at this point. I would also tell people to get a BR player.

I would too if some ask me which Hidef format to go with. But it is silly for some Bluray fanboys to suggest everyone who owns a HDDVD player to toss away their $200 HDDVD player and immediately buy a $500 Bluray player.

It's like telling everyone throw away their PS2 now that the PS3 is out. The PS2 is still a good game system that plays existing titles.

[starman]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I would too if some ask me which Hidef format to go with. But it is silly for some Bluray fanboys to suggest everyone who owns a HDDVD player to toss away their $200 HDDVD player and immediately buy a $500 Bluray player.

It's like telling everyone throw away their PS2 now that the PS3 is out. The PS2 is still a good game system that plays existing titles.

tru dat

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

The upscaling is not great on the PS3??? How is that judged anyway? Have you seen upscaling on a PS3?

Yes.

I think you're not only wrong your just making excuses.

I think you're strange trying to convince everyone that the PS3 is the best that ever existed and they should go out and spend $400 bucks on it whether they want one or not.

If you didn't know that the PS3 played games how would you even know it's not a standalone either?

Huh?

the best upscaler

Uh no, not even close. It's pretty good, about comparable with the Toshiba HD-A2, but neither are top tier upscalers by any measure. Both are much better than the Xbox 360 for DVD upscaling, but that's not saying much.

PS3 DVD upscaling review

The bottom line is that the PS3's upscaling is pretty good, although it doesn't compare to top-of-the-line players such as the Oppo DV-981HD or the new high-def disc players with HQV processing, such as the Samsung BD-P1200 and the Toshiba HD-XA2.

P.S. The new DVD Player.app in Leopard has very, very good upscaling. I'm impressed. Unfortunately, I'm not keen on using a computer for general DVD playback either.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I would too if some ask me which Hidef format to go with. But it is silly for some Bluray fanboys to suggest everyone who owns a HDDVD player to toss away their $200 HDDVD player and immediately buy a $500 Bluray player.

I don't see anyone saying that.

The only sense of urgency is if you can return as much HD-DVD stuff as you have even if you just buy BR in 6 months.

Any why you still obsessed with thinking all BR players are $500 when they are $300?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Any why you still obsessed with thinking all BR players are $500 when they are $300?

Well, more like $400 for a half-decent one.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I really have to wonder if next week resellers will get a huge load of HD-DVD returns.

[Lateralus]

How many times are you going to post about people returning HD-DVD items?