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Macola · Apr 30, 2003, 09:50 PM

Anyone else operating their 12" AlBook in clamshell (closed-lid) mode? I've had mine about a week, and I do use it as a desktop replacement a lot. However, I also have the heat problem which is bad enough to cause the front strip around the latch release button to be warped. I'm concerned that the heat could damage the screen.

icruise · Apr 30, 2003, 10:02 PM

I personally don't see the point in clamshell mode (using both screens seems much more useful to me) but if heat is a concern you can put the powerbook to sleep, wake it with the external keyboard or mouse and then open the screen and still be using only the external screen.

Macola · Apr 30, 2003, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
I personally don't see the point in clamshell mode (using both screens seems much more useful to me) but if heat is a concern you can put the powerbook to sleep, wake it with the external keyboard or mouse and then open the screen and still be using only the external screen.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing...lid partially open. The reason for clamshell mode is that the 'Book is tucked away under a hutch on my desk, so I can't keep the lid open all the way. Besides, I prefer to use all the video card's resources to drive the external monitor (20" LCD).

icruise · Apr 30, 2003, 10:23 PM

Actually for some reason that we don't fully understand (probably a bug) tests showed that the 12" powerbook is considerably faster runing in monitor-spanning mode than in clamshell mode.

dettociao · Apr 30, 2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
Actually for some reason that we don't fully understand (probably a bug) tests showed that the 12" powerbook is considerably faster runing in monitor-spanning mode than in clamshell mode.

Because I'm an idiot... how does one set a 12" not to goto sleep when the lid is closed? (ie set it to clamshell mode).

icruise · Apr 30, 2003, 11:44 PM

You need an external mouse or keyboard. Close the lid and it goes to sleep. The click the external mouse or type on the external keyboard and it will wake up in clamshell mode.

Macola · Apr 30, 2003, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
Actually for some reason that we don't fully understand (probably a bug) tests showed that the 12" powerbook is considerably faster runing in monitor-spanning mode than in clamshell mode.

That's interesting--what kinds of tests? Can you post the results?

icruise · May 1, 2003, 01:08 AM

I don't have a link right at the moment. It was discussed here back when the 12" was new. I think you may be able to see the difference by running Xbench in clamshell mode vs. monitor spanning.

Kenstee · May 1, 2003, 02:21 PM

Dumb question..but...What exactly is "monitor-spanning mode?"

SOLIDAge · May 1, 2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Kenstee:
Dumb question..but...What exactly is "monitor-spanning mode?"

basically its like having 2 monitors for 1 computer. Called spanning because if you put the LCD next to an external monitor you can span your work across the 2 doubling your work space.

see this page for an example, as you can see the person w/ the iBook is using iChat on one screen and watching a DVD on another

http://homepage.mac.com/thinkdiffere...toAlbum19.html

Kenstee · May 1, 2003, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by solidage:
[B]basically its like having 2 monitors for 1 computer. Called spanning because if you put the LCD next to an external monitor you can span your work across the 2 doubling your work space.

Do you get the same effect (increased speed vs. closed clamshell) by keeping the lid opened without displaying anything on the PB while you are using an external monitor?

mcs37 · May 1, 2003, 03:55 PM

I am very interested in this so-called "clamshell" mode. I would like to get a 3-way KVM switch next year and hook up 2 PC's and my 12" PB to it and switch between desktops. If I use this clamshell mode, I could return from class, hook it up to the KVM and use my 18" LCD (VGA) as my monitor and use an external keyboard. My only question is are there any KVM's that support USB now for keyboard I/O.... need to look into this.

The reason I would do this is I don't want to harm my keyboard any more than possible. I have this nasty habit of making my keyboards very dirty, even though I wash my hands all the time. No idea; I think it's cuz I sweat a lot more than the average bear and that sweat holds the dirt more.

Macola · May 1, 2003, 05:14 PM

Well, I tried some Xbench tests in both clamshell and spanning modes. Admittedly, the results may not be representative because I only used one data set for each. However, while the OpenGL test overall was slightly better in spanning mode (total score 102 spanning vs 99 clamshell) and Quartz graphics was essentially the same, the CPU and UI tests scored somewhat higher in clamshell mode. So my conclusion is that there's not a significant difference either way. If anyone is interested in detailed benchmarks, let me know. I'd also be interested in seeing other people's results.

icruise · May 1, 2003, 06:39 PM

That's good to hear, I guess. But the disturbing thing is that is that it should obviously take more power to drive two screens, and so the spanning score should be significantly lower than the clamshell mode score, not higher as you found. But if you don't notice a difference in everyday use it doesn't really matter.

Mskr · May 2, 2003, 12:45 PM

I would seriously not recommend this. While I don't think that my 12" gets 'hot' (just very warm), I don't think that this would be good for extended use, as the heat being so close to the screen could be bad for the LCD. While I'm sure that Apple must engineer the YaoBook to run in clamshell-mode, or else they'd disable it, I can't see that long-term this would be good for the screen, and you may not know about it until too late.

Of course, if you had it on a riser with a fan blowing on it or something, or are actively cooling it in some other way (Peltier & fan under the left-hand side, maybe), you could do it safely. But, if the screen gets hot, I wouldn't do this.

How's that for a totally non-scientific answer?

roders · May 2, 2003, 03:24 PM

10.2.5 seems to have resolved the closed lid/clamshell reduced performance bug.

escher · May 2, 2003, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by roders:
10.2.5 seems to have resolved the closed lid/clamshell reduced performance bug.

roders: How did you find out? Did you read it somewhere? Do you run a 12-inch PowerBook with external monitor and tried it yourself? It's always usefull to include the basis for or source of your claim. Thanks in advance.

Escher

icruise · May 2, 2003, 06:13 PM

If that's true and Macola is running 10.2.5 it might explain the relatively small difference he/she discovered (although I would still think it's kind of an odd result). I do remember the difference shown in the original test results being much more startling.

Macola · May 2, 2003, 08:55 PM

I'm running 10.2.5 but noticed no difference at all in heat output when I upgraded from 10.2.4. Interestingly, today I tried resetting the PMU (Ctrl+Shift+Opt+Pwr) and since then I've actually noticed the fan coming on (I never noticed it before). The heat problem is still there, though.

Just to be safe, although I *am* still technically running in clamshell mode, I keep the lid open a couple of inches to (hopefully) increase airflow.

escher · May 3, 2003, 11:50 AM

Talking about airflow while running in clamshell mode: I really miss the Duo Dock of old. I have this vision of building a small box with two Teflon-padded guide-rails inside, a BookEndz Dock, and a fan (or two small ones) in the back to pull in some fresh air through the front. I could slide my future PowerBook onto the rails, which would leave space for good airflow (enhanced by the quiet fan(s) in the back) around the 'Book. I could mount that box to the bottom of my desk, kind of like a drawer, and have only an external LCD and keyboard on my desk. Because the PowerBook would slide in dideways, the optical drive would still be accessible in the front.

I want a Duo Dock for the 12-inch PowerBook!

Escher

roders · May 3, 2003, 05:38 PM

I'm running my machine closed with an external CRT Sony monitor nearly all the time at the moment, and was slightly worried about heat affecting the screen, but it seems fine at the moment.
I actually complained to Apple about the reduced performance of my AluBook running in clamshell mode when I purchased it.
After updating to 10.2.5 things seemed a lot better so I ran XBench, and where as before 10.2.5 there was a BIG difference in the scores (much lower when in clamshell) mode, under 10.2.5 my AluBook scores "slightly" more in clamshell mode now than when running only it's internal LCD.

Macola · May 3, 2003, 07:45 PM

So it seems that 10.2.5 must have compensated for the difference noted between clamshell and spanning modes. I never did any Xbench tests in 10.2.4, so I have no basis for comparison.

Roders, did you notice any difference in heat output after upgrading to 10.2.5? I really wish there was a way to fix this problem without returning my 'Book to Apple and getting another, which may potentially have the same problem...

Shaddim · May 4, 2003, 10:23 AM

My 12 runs identically in Clamshell mode and LCD mode (+/- 1pt in Xbench). Now, when it's in spanning mode, it's 2-4 pts lower than in the single display modes (clamshell/LCD). This is how it should be, and I'm happy with that.

And no, the heat deosn't seem to be an issue with the LCD closed. In fact, since 10.2.5 was installed (and I manually reset the PMU), the heat has been much less noticeable.

escher · May 4, 2003, 03:30 PM

BTW: A user on SpyMac posted a picture of his Formac 1740 and 12-inch PowerBook running in clamshell mode. That's a great combination since the 12-inch doesn't have DVI-out to connect to Apple displays.

Personally, I'm also looking at the Viewsonic ThinEdge VP 171b. Club Mac sells this 1280x1024 17" monitor for $550 and it comes with one DVI-in and two VGA-in ports. This would be ideal to share the monitor between two or three systems. I'm planning on getting a cheapo Wintel box for my wife and she and I would be able to share that screen easily when I get my Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook.

Escher

all2ofme · Sep 28, 2003, 01:00 PM

Does anyone know if this problem with reduced performance when *not* spanning monitors has in fact been resolved?

I'm most interested in hearing if it's been fixed on the new rev.B 12" machines (though obviously a software fix for both would be better).

MrNo · Sep 28, 2003, 03:25 PM

I run my 12" in the clamshell mode, and was worried at the begining about the heat damaging the LCD. My solution was to buy the aluminum notebook cooler with two fans from hardwarecooling.com. It even matches the PB

all2ofme · Sep 28, 2003, 04:52 PM

Hi MrNo - does it run any slower in clamshell mode that you can tell?

Originally posted by MrNo:
I run my 12" in the clamshell mode, and was worried at the begining about the heat damaging the LCD. My solution was to buy the aluminum notebook cooler with two fans from hardwarecooling.com. It even matches the PB

MrNo · Sep 28, 2003, 05:56 PM

It feels to be running a bit slower while it's in the clamshell mode. However X-Bench thinks differentt

Spanning 73.15
Clamshell 73.52
No external monitor 73.60

CPU had the highest score while it was in the spanning mode 102.75

Originally posted by all2ofme:
Hi MrNo - does it run any slower in clamshell mode that you can tell?

shabbasuraj · Sep 29, 2003, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by Macola:
Anyone else operating their 12" AlBook in clamshell (closed-lid) mode? I've had mine about a week, and I do use it as a desktop replacement a lot. However, I also have the heat problem which is bad enough to cause the front strip around the latch release button to be warped. I'm concerned that the heat could damage the screen.

where exactly is your 12" warping... mine is slightly separating on the rightside of the latch...right below the right palm rest...

lates...

Macola · Sep 29, 2003, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
where exactly is your 12" warping... mine is slightly separating on the rightside of the latch...right below the right palm rest...

lates...

It's most noticeable right above the latch release button (the gray plastic is separating from the Al case) but extends a couple of inches to the right.