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Panther First Impressions
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kelix
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:01 PM
 
Ok all... just installed DP1 of Panther from WWDC. All i can say is WOW!!!
This mother flies at unbelieveable speeds... im running a G4 700 with 384Mb Ram and this is unbelieveable!

Please tell me what youd like to know as im about to write a large first impressions piece..
Not happy tho! Itunes and all the other iLife apps were removed during installation!
( Last edited by kelix; Jun 24, 2003 at 08:45 PM. )
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:05 PM
 
Ok... All ILife apps gone.. it makes you download them over Software update (been revised) i'll post a screenie soon... Still cant believe the speed...
There is a funky fade in/out of prefpanes when u click on em in the control panels.. very nice indeed!
     
TheTraveller
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:05 PM
 
I want to know, what are the other 90-odd features that Steve didn't have time to show? That "instant find" in the Finder - is that thanks to a new metadata system? Can you try to run some tests to see how much faster Panther is, especially window resizing and scrolling?
     
ODL
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:09 PM
 
I would like to see: screenshots of:
the finder
new system prefs
preview in action
xcode
save/open dialogs

thanks
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:19 PM
 
The install also deleates IE!!!
Yes you heard right... it deleates IE lol
Its nowhere to be seen.. safari is still v85

UPDATE:
It also deleates acrobat 5 as now preview does all lol
( Last edited by kelix; Jun 24, 2003 at 08:34 PM. )
     
Guy Incognito 2
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:22 PM
 
Click a Finder window...and hit the 'Help' key on the keyboard...does a little question mark icon show up?

Go to the DVD Player and do the same.

Same with QuickTime Player.

I just want to know how much of a rewrite these three apps have gone through.

(haven't seen any screenies of QT Player so I have no idea if the QT Player has been rewritten.)
     
Guy Incognito 2
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:23 PM
 
Originally posted by kelix:
The install also deleates IE!!!
Yes you heard right... it deleates IE lol
That's great news...must be one of the 100 features.
     
Guy Incognito 2
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:32 PM
 
Hello?
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:42 PM
 
apple has put a few more of those "mysterious" sounds back into the Os.. remeber the trash can throw???

In mail when you send an email the sound of a fighter jet (non corny sounding) flies over head.. kinda cool...

how do you check the kernal version through terminal? i'd like to post its progress too but i cant remember how to do it!
     
Guy Incognito 2
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:46 PM
 
Sweet....but can you check my questions? I'll sleep better if I get an answer.
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:49 PM
 
Yup.. still a ? when you press help in the finder and QT wont even bother giving a ? when you press help!
sorry mate!
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:52 PM
 
Good Lord. I'm all for making Safari and Preview the default apps for browsing and reading PDFs, but deleting its competitors?

An installer should *never* do that.

That better change -- I can't imagine users will like that one bit.

Keep 'em coming!
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:52 PM
 
Pushing the Help button on any of those apps does nothing, but believe me the finder is fast.. I created a folder with 1568 items in it and it opens up in 1 second, and is so easy to scroll through.. Its amazing, probably better then OS 9.

Just to let you know I am on a 466Mhz G4 with an old slow 4 gig drive but Panther still super fast! Safari opens up in 3 bounces the first time, and every other time around a bounce

Quick things i have noticed are that menu dividers are back, the finder mounts disk images automatically, the network control panel has been updated to allow settings like the speed of your NIC and also renewing your IP if using DHCP... Almost all control panels have been updated in some way or another.

Mail is very very fast so far although i have only a couple of messages in it so far.

Qucktime is at 6.4d37.

System Profiler now does its thing in a couple of seconds and the options to see are along the side.

Inside the Utilities folder is an app called Ports Manager. It sort of seems like Fink Commander type app. When I open it it asks me to install Darwin Ports for Mac OS X. I have no idea if this is like a Fink like thing or not so please don't hold this against me.

Bad news is I have had 2 system crashes, but thats about it.

Sorry if things don't make sense and hope this helps, i was writing really fast

This OS is giving me the same feeling as Jag did, I think Steve really didn't get the time to into it!
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:57 PM
 
Ooo, sounds awesome.

Finally the Finder gets the attention it's long deserved.

I bet we'll get another event focused wholly on Panther, in much more depth, sometime before it ships.
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:57 PM
 
Darwin is at:
7.0.0b1 Darwin Kernel Version 7.0.0b1: Mon Jun 16 23:01:44 PDT 2003; root:xnu/xnu-452.1.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc

java version "1.4.1_01"

Fast user switching works very well, but the cube rotate is a bit choppy for me and sometimes has some black show up. The login panel has also been slightly redone.
     
Guy Incognito 2
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:59 PM
 
Originally posted by kelix:
Yup.. still a ? when you press help in the finder and QT wont even bother giving a ? when you press help!
sorry mate!
tRr says nothing happens when you hit 'Help' in the Finder.

Who's right?

tRr seems to say positive things about the Panther Finder's speed though...can anyone else confirm this? Or is it the same ol' "snappy™" comment everyone posts after an update?
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:00 PM
 
     
Brass
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:03 PM
 
Originally posted by lookmark:
Good Lord. I'm all for making Safari and Preview the default apps for browsing and reading PDFs, but deleting its competitors?

An installer should *never* do that.

That better change -- I can't imagine users will like that one bit.

Keep 'em coming!
Remember the purpose of this distribution is to get people to test the new components! I bet it comes with many warnings in the documentation about installing it on machines that you want to use for anything else.

And any application that was installed by a Mac OS X installer originally, is fair game for a newer installer to do with what it likes.

It makes good sense for the installer to delete the other products in this preview release. It's trying to create a relatively clean system to encourage users to test the new components thoroughly.
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:04 PM
 
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:06 PM
 
Build 7A179 for all you mac lovers its the one steve used at the Keynote
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:10 PM
 
The over all finish is amazing. Expose just like Steve showed it and very very cool.

The printing engine has also been done with new options like a Scheduler to print at differn't times. Printing now opens an app the same name as your printer and not Print Center for my Epson 777 at least. Seems much faster too. Actually now i just did a print Preview and it opened the document in Preview. I noticed that there was a print and a cancel on the buttom of that preview window, so i hit print and it just started printing with nothing in the dock.

Preview really does seem much faster as well.

Guy Incognito, i can tell you when i hit the Help key nothing seems to happen, well it actually selects the item in the top right hand corner, but thats it. For me anyways.

Console has seen a major update too with all the logs appearing in a sheet beside the window and buttons for marking, searching. finding, mailing, printing and clearing.
     
Guy Incognito 2
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:12 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
The over all finish is amazing. Expose just like Steve showed it and very very cool.

The printing engine has also been done with new options like a Scheduler to print at differn't times. Printing now opens an app the same name as your printer and not Print Center for my Epson 777 at least. Seems much faster too. Actually now i just did a print Preview and it opened the document in Preview. I noticed that there was a print and a cancel on the buttom of that preview window, so i hit print and it just started printing with nothing in the dock.

Preview really does seem much faster as well.

Guy Incognito, i can tell you when i hit the Help key nothing seems to happen, well it actually selects the item in the top right hand corner, but thats it. For me anyways.

Console has seen a major update too with all the logs appearing in a sheet beside the window and buttons for marking, searching. finding, mailing, printing and clearing.
Sounds great! Man oh man I can't wait for Panther now.
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:13 PM
 
Ahhhh. This is great. Been waiting all day for this.

Just a few Qs, for tRr or kelix:

- How does Exposé handle minimized windows?

- Can you navigate Exposé w/ the keyboard after it's been activated, or only use the mouse?

- Anything new in Sys Pref > Appearance?

Thanks...
     
jfinete
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:16 PM
 
Before anyone gets too excited about applications being deleted... kelix, did you chose the "Archive and Install" option? If so, then all the applications that were originally installed by Jaguar should have been moved to your archived home directory.
     
Guy Incognito 2
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:18 PM
 
Still curious about the DVD Player. Can we get shots or any info about the DVD Player prefs?

I know DVD Player chokes on a whole lot of my DVDs while vlc handles them like pro (using the most awful interface ever). I hope I'll finally be able to use DVD Player for my DVD needs. The revamped control interface looks nice.

But what about 5.1 audio (now that Apple offers 5.1 sound for their G5s) and that stuff? Is there anyway to check that?
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:18 PM
 
You can navigate Exposé after you have activated it with the keyboard.. however you cant trye pn text fields you still must select the window or app you wish to make use of first.
Expose drags windows out of the dock and put em back in when finished
Nothering new in System prefs besides Fax and a few amalgamations betwen panels like Internet and Network and Desktop And Screensaver
     
Thinine
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:18 PM
 
How is Exposé performance on the G4 466? What video card are you using? Sounds really sweet. How is fast user switching on the iMac?
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:19 PM
 
Find is a bit slower on my computer then when Steve showed it, but much faster then Jaguar so far.

Also that window on the side of all finder windows can be pushed to the side and fairly well ignored. Save dialog boxes start as the basic ones found in jaguar but then can be expanded to the more advanced version. In these you can also move that Panel (whatever they call it) to the left but this time it just becomes part of the window so it wastes no space in here.

I really like the new aqua so far, just enough there to notice it but not get distracting for me at least.

Inside addressbook is a now a card for Apple . I read on Apple's site that it does the printing to Avery paper and what not and the feature seems there....

Expose ignored minimized windows.. Just tried with the keyboard arrow keys and it does work! pressing return got that window to come to the front...

Inside Appearance to my knowledge nothing is new. There is no place for themes in there though if thats why your asking
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:22 PM
 
When I bought my G4 I upgraded it to a GeForce 2MX 32MB. Expose runs great, especially the F11 which is show the desktop.

Resizing Safari windows still is jumpy, and the Finder still seems to be a bit worse then it was in Jaguar for me, but nothing to bad.
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:23 PM
 

Expose drags windows out of the dock and put em back in when finished
Very slick.

You can navigate Exposé after you have activated it with the keyboard.. however you cant trye pn text fields you still must select the window or app you wish to make use of first.
Sorry, wasn't clear. I mean, *after* Exposé is activated (via gesture, keyboard, or mouse button) can you navigate the minimized windows by some keyboard combo (space? cmd-tab? opt-tab?) or do you have to click the window with the mouse to activate it?

Whew.
     
Ratm
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:24 PM
 
can you tell us anything about Pixlet and the issues with Finder windows and all the little annoyances that people were complaining about in Jag...thanks
( Last edited by Ratm; Jun 24, 2003 at 09:38 PM. )
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:26 PM
 
Just opened DVD player to check for Guy and it sorta frooze up on me. Clicking on the the App in the dock gave me instantly force quit, unlike in Jag when it sometimes took awhile to come up.

When you open up DVD player it fades in "DVD Player" with an Apple logo on the lower right hand corner. Inside the Prefs under disc setup under Audio output it says "Dolby Surround" and its a pop up listing but there is nothing else currently there for me. I'm not playing a video or does my computer have the hardware though to get anything else.
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:29 PM
 
no idea as yet... cant see anything which would tell me about the keybolard shortcuts
     
Guy Incognito 2
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:29 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
Just opened DVD player to check for Guy and it sorta frooze up on me. Clicking on the the App in the dock gave me instantly force quit, unlike in Jag when it sometimes took awhile to come up.

When you open up DVD player it fades in "DVD Player" with an Apple logo on the lower right hand corner. Inside the Prefs under disc setup under Audio output it says "Dolby Surround" and its a pop up listing but there is nothing else currently there for me. I'm not playing a video or does my computer have the hardware though to get anything else.
Awww sweet!
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:32 PM
 
Wow, using Apple-Tab gets up a thing sorta of like on Windows going through the apps, but just like when happens you press the sound button on a pro keyboard. Works very nice. You can also put your mouse up into the window and the app it points to instantly becomes selected.

Also right clicking on finder brings up "hide" and gets ride of all those windows. I don't think this was in Jaguar.
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:38 PM
 
LOL!!! we have had Apple-Tab since like DP3 of Cheetah dude!
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:39 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
[B]Wow, using Apple-Tab gets up a thing sorta of like on Windows going through the apps, but just like when happens you press the sound button on a pro keyboard. Works very nice. You can also put your mouse up into the window and the app it points to instantly becomes selected.
Just like LiteSwitch. Cool.

Man, bet Proteron isn't so happy about that.
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:40 PM
 
Calculator is at 3.1 and now actually works on my computer. In Jag the buttons would press very slowly. Panther is just like in OS 9 use to be.

Expose also keeps updating the apps contents, since running top continues to show new results coming up.

kelix: i know we had it just now it shows up like your increasing the sound
     
disco_stu
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:42 PM
 
Need. More. Screenshots.
     
ls -al
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:43 PM
 
Thanks for all the great info so far. Looks very good. I have a few questions, it'd be great if you guys can answer them...


1. Is there a new help viewer?
2. How's the compatibility with existing Jaguar apps, does it break anything, for instance menulings etc?
3. The new addressbook, can we get a screenshot of the print preferences. I am interested in label printing... Any other new features in this App? Can we add custom fields ?
4. Is the Connect to Server menu item gone? How's the new Network icon behave? Does FTP still cause problems in the Finder?
5. Is the toolbar in the finder customizable or is it ala Safari?
6. How's the threading in Mail.app?
7. How about some more screenies (Ports manager, Print center...)
     
kelix  (op)
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:47 PM
 
1. Is there a new help viewer?
yes (same but revamped) lol looks very unfinnished!!!

2. How's the compatibility with existing Jaguar apps, does it break anything, for instance menulings etc?
Fine nothing has broken yet!

4. Is the Connect to Server menu item gone? How's the new Network icon behave? Does FTP still cause problems in the Finder?
FTP is fine and yes conenct to server is still there

5. Is the toolbar in the finder customizable or is it ala Safari?
Always has been

6. How's the threading in Mail.app?
Nice but screenies are hard (due to personal details being given away)
     
Busemann
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:48 PM
 
Some cool stuff not mentioned:

- Infinite folder hiararchy in the dock (at least not limited to 5 anymore)

- Scheduler now built in (when to automaticaly turn on/off machine etc.)

- Finder toolbar actually customizable (!) Even allows small text / icons!

- Much smoother scrolling (at least will be in final)

- Faster calculator (duh)

- Much faster sheets (really nice)

- BRAND NEW OPEN / SAVE PANELS takes the best from 9, X, and even some stuff by Windows

- Dolby digital support in DVD player (which by the way is brushed metal and has that outline around it).

- Refinements to nearly every app. It feels very polished (considering its an aplha product)
     
fireside
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:48 PM
 
i wanty more screenshots
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:52 PM
 
It just keeps sounding better and better.

Does iDisk work in this release?
     
curmi
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:53 PM
 
Can you drag from one app to another using Exposé?

For example, start a mail compose window.
Go to Safari.
Drag an image from safari to a corner that does the exposé stuff.
Find the compose window. Can you drop the image on that?

Can you somehow bring that compose window to normal size, while still dragging the image - for example to position it in the compose window better?
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 10:01 PM
 
Here's yet another.

How do you perform an advanced Search? Does command-F in the Finder still bring up Find? Any differences from Jaguar?
     
ls -al
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Jun 24, 2003, 10:01 PM
 
1. Just wondering if navigation keys work right in the Open/Save sheets specifically,
Does Cmd+1 Cmd+2 Cmd+ 3 switch between the different views. Cmd+Shift+N for new folder etc...

2. Can you rename folders (or delete files) in the sheets ala Windows?

3. Does the drop down menu in the top still include Favorites/History

4. Can you do a Cmd+i on the files/folders to get info?

5. What kind of sorting options are available in the list view?

6. Do labels show up in the Dialogs? What about creation/modification dates?
     
tRr
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Jun 24, 2003, 10:04 PM
 
Just some more notes:

When installing it checks the hard drive for errors and the only option available for format is Journaled HFS+ and UFS.

TextEdit now has Styles an option for Styles.

Terminal has lots new options under file including a nifty little window for Connecting to Servers that remembers has lists for ssh , sftp, ftp and telnet and options to add your own. You can also get here from the dock. There is also an option for "Secure Keyboard Entry".

About the Finder I now put one folder up to 2048 items and did some more playing. The window takes about 2 seconds to come up and is very good at scrolling. I can usually select around 300 items before it starts getting really choppy. And at that many items its a bit of a pain to start moving them around, especially at first where its really thinking, once its going though (around 5 seconds) its fairly smooth. More items then 300 selected and it turns into lag city.

curmi: just tried it and it indeed does work!! I first opened up a blank email.. went to apple.com, picked up part of the g5, pressed F9, then i could move the pic of the G5 over the mail window, but when i released the mouse button nothing would enter the mail document. So next time instead of dropping it on the e-mail i pressed return on my keyboard, the mail message came to the front (with the g5 still dragging along with my mouse) and i could drop it in really sweet.
     
Thinine
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Jun 24, 2003, 10:05 PM
 
How is the startup time? Is there still a delay before restarting or shutting down?
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 10:05 PM
 
7. Does clicking, double-clicking, or dragging (into the text field) a filename from the column/list view in the Save dialog put that name into the text field?

(My one and just about only favorite Windows feature.)
     
 
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