[FunandBlindness]

What about Toast with Jam? Is Jam getting upgraded to v.6?

[Dr. Galakowitz]

I have to agree with Starman.

The fact that Roxio has decided against a $50 upgrade price and the fact that Toast 5 is broken in Panther has me fuming.

Look at it this way:

Adobe is GIVING away a G5 upgrade to Photoshop- FREE! Most upgrades are a fraction of the previous version.

Even Apple has an Up to Date program: $99 to keep you in the latest OS for 3 years! So once you buy the OS, $30/yr to keep it current.

But if you bought toast 5 this year, it's $99 to keep you current.

This is so reminscent of people that put out shareware and try to charge $50. Granted, Toast is a great product, but greediness soon loses marketshare. Disk burning in the OS is by no means as elegant as Toast . But I've been a loyal customer since the days when it was owned by Astarte and 2x burning was the major newsflash. In those days, the product was geared toward business/creative industries and was not cheap. I have watched the product evolve and have been impressed for the most part with the improvements. I have also watched Roxio struggle as of late with what to do with a product that is nearly perfect in execution. Their answer? Fill it with extra fluff and double the upgrade cost .

The issue is I will have to upgrade 1200 systems to Panther next year and a good number are running Toast. I now have to consider the cost of upgrading is double...

So, like Starman, I have to buy it and I don't like Roxio's new sense of customer loyalty.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by starman:
1) You don't know how to read.
2) There's no upgrade price on their web site.

Mike

1) You don't know how to answer a question
2) Who said that Toast 5 will not be updated?

[starman]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
1) You don't know how to answer a question
2) Who said that Toast 5 will not be updated?

1) I answered the question above already.
2) Please point to an upgrade price link on Toast's web site.

Mike

[Eug Wanker]

Note, Panther isn't even out yet. You can't complain about Toast 5 not working in Panther yet.

Anyways, I asked around and it seems that stores around here don't expect to get it in stock until mid to late September.

[starman]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Note, Panther isn't even out yet. You can't complain about Toast 5 not working in Panther yet.

You can if you're an Apple Seed Developer.

Mike

[PubGuy]

Well, I've justed checked out Dragon Burn for OS X

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/08/19/dragon/

It works with 10.2 and Panther. Seems to have all the features of Toast 6 for half the price.

YMMV

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by starman:
1) I answered the question above already.
2) Please point to an upgrade price link on Toast's web site.

Mike

Upgrade price? I am talking about Toast 5 just getting a minor update so it runs on Jaguar. Duh.

Plus when Final Cut didn't run on the Jag demo's did you through a hissy fit? No, cuz it started working again in the next build.

[workerbee]

Originally posted by PubGuy:
Well, I've justed checked out Dragon Burn for OS X
It works with 10.2 and Panther. Seems to have all the features of Toast 6 for half the price.

When burning hybrid (say HFS+/Joliet) discs, is it possible with Dragon to change what is burned on the Joliet side of things? I haven't been able to find this option anywhere yet.
Changing names (or being warned of incompatible names inside a mac folder, like .icon) and especially being able to not have Mac Projectors on the Joliet partition, and vice-versa no Windoze .exe Projectors and autostart files on the HFS disc has really been helpful for Director and Flash CD-ROM projects. Toast may be expensive, but even in Roxio hands they have a lot of experience, IMHO.

[starman]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Upgrade price? I am talking about Toast 5 just getting a minor update so it runs on Jaguar. Duh.

Plus when Final Cut didn't run on the Jag demo's did you through a hissy fit? No, cuz it started working again in the next build.

But Apple already stated on their support forums that it would so to you.

Mike

[starman]

Well, here's an idea about how goddamn clueless Roxio is:

--

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------


Posted At: 20:56:32.000 08/19/2003
Posted To: [email protected]
Subject: Support options [KB=Customer Service]

Product=Toast
Version=Version 5.x
Purchase Method=From Roxio online
Help Topic=Support options
Details=I'd like to know if you're going to offer an upgrade for Toast 5 so that it will work with Panther, or if I'm forced to get Toast 6. I don't need Toast 6's new features.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** BEGIN NVPS ***
RX_Organization=Customer Service]
Thank you for your e-mail regarding support for your recorder device. For our most recent compatibility information, please visit our recorder support page at: http://rpp.roxio.com/drives/?page=supported_drives
If you have checked the recorder support database, and do not see your drive listed, please reply to this email with your Make and Model, and I will check into it and get back to you. Please note, that if the drive is not on the list, it is more then likely not a supported drive at this time, and we recommended that you sign up for our newsletter that comes out bi-weekly with information on new drives that are supported.

IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF WHAT KIND OF RECORDER YOU HAVE, right click on the "My Computer" icon, Select "Properties". Find the "Device Manager" in the "Properties" window. This may be listed under the "Hardware" section in some versions of Windows. Here you should be able to locate the make and model of your recorder.

If you have checked the Recorder Support database, have done the latest update and the software is still not detecting your drive, you will need to contact technical support for further assistance.

We hope this prepared response supplies you with the information needed. If you have any further questions please reply to this email.

Regards,

Roxio Customer Service




RX_Product_Queue=Customer Service]
*** END NVPS ***



(#0237-000081-1451\811451)

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Can you put the bitching on ice till 10.3 ships and Roxio can respond or do you need Toast 6 and Jag RIGHT FRINGGING NOW!?

[starman]

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
Can you put the bitching on ice till 10.3 ships and Roxio can respond or do you need Toast 6 and Jag RIGHT FRINGGING NOW!?

That WAS Roxio's response.

Don't you think they'd actually post the Toast 5 update at the same time as the Toast 6 release? Any RESPECTABLE company would do that.

Mike

[clebin]

Originally posted by starman:
You can if you're an Apple Seed Developer.

Mike

You think Roxio are going to keep updating it for 7Bxx and 7BBxx+1 because you're too stupid to have Jaguar installed somewhere?

Honestly, you're not making sense.

Chris

[starman]

Originally posted by clebin:
You think Roxio are going to keep updating it for 7Bxx and 7BBxx+1 because you're too stupid to have Jaguar installed somewhere?

Honestly, you're not making sense.

Chris

So let me get this straight...I'm supposed to hold onto a jaguar partition after panther's released just to run Toast? You're a friggin' moron.

Mike

[Cadaver]

Here's what I would love from Toast 6 -

I'm waiting (eventually it'll arrive) for a G5, which of course has an optical digital audio input. I've got an old DAT deck and some tapes I'd love to convert to MP3s. I know I could do this in the analog domain, but it would be great if Toast/Jam (or whatever the audio app that comes with Toast is going to be called these days) supported the digital audio input of the G5's!

Now that would be a killer app.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by starman:
So let me get this straight...I'm supposed to hold onto a jaguar partition after panther's released just to run Toast? You're a friggin' moron.

Mike

Regardless of what's on Roxio's website now, I'd wait and see what their response to Panther is. Once completed, there may be an easy fix.

While not necessarily directed at you, starman, like with all OS updates - if you have a mission-critical application, don't upgrade until you can verify all your apps work correctly.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by clebin:
You think Roxio are going to keep updating it for 7Bxx and 7BBxx+1 because you're too stupid to have Jaguar installed somewhere?

Honestly, you're not making sense.

Chris

What else is new? Talk about:

[clebin]

Originally posted by starman:
So let me get this straight...I'm supposed to hold onto a jaguar partition after panther's released just to run Toast? You're a friggin' moron.

Mike

I take it this guy is the drama queen, not me!

I was talking about keeping a Jaguar partition while you're running the developer seeds. Funnily enough, because you were the one who said "you can [complain] if you're an Apple Seed developer".

If you had a brain, I might overlook the "friggin' moron" comment, but as it stands I'm entitled to say you're a sad poisonous little sh'itbag with too much time on his hands.
</drama></queen>

Chris

[Powaqqatsi]

Question about remote burning. Does remote burning mean that you "activate" the burning on a Mac from a remote Mac. Or does it mean that the data from the remote Mac gets "streamed" to your Mac for burning on the local Mac ?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Feel
Stupid
yet?

"One anonymous developer writes "Just wanted to mention in 7b44 my Aluminum PowerBook 12" couldn't wake successfully from a closed shell sleep mode, it's fixed now in b49. I have found no bugs yet, and all my old applications that wouldn't run, now run perfectly. Look, Roxio Toast 5.0 is back, so I don't have to upgrade to version 6.0 right away. This is a huge milestone." "

[FunandBlindness]

Reports are that Toast 5 works fine with the latest build of Panther.

[starman]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Feel
Stupid
yet?

"One anonymous developer writes "Just wanted to mention in 7b44 my Aluminum PowerBook 12" couldn't wake successfully from a closed shell sleep mode, it's fixed now in b49. I have found no bugs yet, and all my old applications that wouldn't run, now run perfectly. Look, Roxio Toast 5.0 is back, so I don't have to upgrade to version 6.0 right away. This is a huge milestone." "

Why would I feel stupid? There's nothing on their site about Panther support, and everyone here's been insinuating that Toast 6 is required for Panther support. I've said all along that I want something official. Just because Toast 5 works in B49 doesn't necessarily mean it'll work in B50+.

Mike

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by starman:
Just because Toast 5 works in B49 doesn't necessarily mean it'll work in B50+.

Mike

Pfhfht!

Stop argueing about beta software! specialy if it has been fixed!

-Owl

[clebin]

Originally posted by starman:
Why would I feel stupid? There's nothing on their site about Panther support, and everyone here's been insinuating that Toast 6 is required for Panther support. I've said all along that I want something official. Just because Toast 5 works in B49 doesn't necessarily mean it'll work in B50+.
Mike

You don't give in!

When has any software company in the history of software companies ever said that their software is guaranteed to work on a pre-release copy of an operating system? Never ever ever ever!

Therefore, the assumption that it might not work is soemthing that most right-thinking computer users carry with them without needing statements to confirum. That is pretty much part of our mental furniture.

Just to furnish your head a little so the complaints don't echo around it for ever this is a reminder of why no software company will make a guarantee about a pre-release OS.

A pre-release operating system:

* May have pieces of functionality that are missing
* May not run some existing applications that rely on that functionality
* May contain bugs
* May cause data loss
* Is not intended as a primary operating system

Which is why I said you need to keep Jaguar somewhere, but you rubbished that idea for some reason.....

Chris

[starman]

Originally posted by clebin:
You don't give in!

When has any software company in the history of software companies ever said that their software is guaranteed to work on a pre-release copy of an operating system? Never ever ever ever!

Be careful what you say.

LOTS of companies said their software would work on the pre-release version of OS X.0.

Mike

[keltorsori]

Everybody should cool it down a little.
1. There is never any guarantee that *any* third party app should work with a *pre-release* version of an operating system. Especially one that requires all sorts of system level APIs

2. Give Apple a chance to release Panther 10.3 to the public before you start complaining that Toast doesn't work

3. Why wouldn't Roxio update Toast 5 to work w/ Panther? And how can they even comment on whether or not they will until the new API frameworks for Panther are set in stone? Why would they make a statement regarding Panther compatibility when API's they may be depending on could be dropped from 10.3 at the last minute? That would just be a lawsuit waiting to happen. Roxio will do what everyone else does and make a compatibility statement when Panther hits GM

4. And most importantly, Toast 5.2.1 works like a charm in 7B49. I'm using it right now and would like to report Toast works peachy keen, even erased my CD-RW, wrote a DVD, etc. So it's working, so stop your whining already ;-) Then again, who knows, it might not work again in B52, but we won't know for sure until Panther hits GM what Roxio and Apple are going to do.

5. Give up the pre-emptive bitching and give peace a chance :-)

[brainchild2b]

SHUTUP, Panther isn't even out yet you worthless whiny *itch. It didn't work in most of the betas BECAUSE OF APPLE. Toast 5 works fine in the latest builds. If you Don't want to pay full price for Panther or Toast, don't *ucking BUY IT YOU MORON.

It's that simple, if it's not worth the price to buy it then don't upgrade, DUH!

People need to assume a budget with their computers. It's not something you buy and 3 years later you update. There are ongoing expenses. If you can't plan for this then you need to be happy running older software.

But what you need to do most importantly is NOT post here ever again, we're having a thread about the new features and such of toast, not about how you can't buy it and you being a cheep*ss. This deserves another thread all together. Nothing is worse than people who stench up a thread with "cheepass". The world has too many already, at least pretend to not be one even if you are.

Originally posted by starman:
So people have to pay for Panther.
Then pay FULL PRICE for the Roxio upgrade.
On top of that, I've seen that a bunch of other apps don't work with Panther. Some companies offer small, free upgrades, others, like Roxio, don't.

I don't see why I'm not allowed to get upset with all the friggin' money I have to shell out next month.

(Cue someone with a smartass remark like: "Nobody's putting a gun to your head to upgrade"). Actually, I do have to if I want to keep the software I write up to date. Maybe I should start charging for it.

Mike

[brainchild2b]

toast 5 broke in all the beta builds as well of 10.2 but it work great when it got to final. Maybe it won't work, maybe you'll be forced to upgrade. Deal with it, and move on.

[absmiths]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
What else is new? Talk about:

Wow - that was cool like the first time, and totally lame now.

[ZackS]

Toast 6, My review:

USER INTERFACE: 3.0
The new UI is a bloated, hard to navigate nightmare. A huge step back from 5. Did they really need the frigging glossy arch that dynamically draws its self? OVERKILL. The options drawer is kind of annoying, I much prefer the way Toast 5 does things. When burning data CDs it's much less clear on which format exactly is going to be burnt. If you set up a custom job in the advanced tab and decide to just go with the basic settings, you need to undo every change you made and get it back to options supported by basic mode to switch back the tab. Very annoying. In addition, switching between tabs caused noticeable lag where as Toast 5.2 was, as we say here, Snappy�.

I noticed after a while that resizing was slow from giant dynamic widget thing at the top of the window, but simply dragging the window was choppy too! I popped open Quartz Debug (I'm a student developer) and saw that the entire window was redrawing when it was just being moved. Unacceptable. But it works, I'm giving it a 3.0 out of 10

FEATURES: 6.0
Toast 6 builds off the amazing set of features found in Toast 5.2 but there's nothing new. It sports the same data modes as 5 and throws in disc encryption and compression, both of which worked well (though you'll find better compression using Stuffit Deluxe). The Audio mode is essentially the same. The disc copy features are present, and on the drawer is support for image burning. Nothing new, though the organization is different (worse in my opinion). Video is where Toast 6 shines. It now allows burning of VCDs, SVCDs and simple DVDs. It even creates nifty looking menus on the fly and comes with all the necessary MPEG and MPEG2 encoders to convert Quicktime content. The SVCD I made worked well in my Apex DVD player. I can see myself using this feature a lot in the future.

When you press red "Record" button in Toast 6, you are greeted by a sheet with 3 Tabs. The first contains basic write options, speed, etc... A new addition is Number of Copies, I assume for making batches of discs. The second has Advanced features. The only new options include Mount after burn and the ability to disable verification. Moved from the preferences is the Disk-at-Once/Track-At-Once Audio write mode setting. The third tab contains information about your CD burner. I really dislike this new layout as it removes the "Burn Session" option and places it under the advanced tab as the checkbox "Close Disc". This change in location and function will easily confuse basic users familiar with multisession burning, but that's more of a UI problem than features.

Notoriously missing is the ever important overburning feature I was hoping Roxio would throw in. Maybe next expensive major release. The problem here is that there is simply nothing new! SVCD and DVDs are cool but there's nothing really compelling. Better compression can be had with stuffit deluxe and while you're there, use stuffit's encryption too!

OVERALL: 4.5
Toast 6 is a solid product that does what it says but there's simply not enough to justify the upgrade. If you don't plan on using the SVCD or DVD portions, stick with Toast 5. The GUI is absolutely appalling and I can't seem to get over it. Even though I paid for the damn program, unless I'm making an SVCD, I think I'll stick with Toast 5 too.

As a note, once you set up the program and register in in Jaguar, it will work and burn in Panther. Panther has some troubles with the setup assistant.

[ZackS]

Note 2: I was just reviewing toast, not any of the add ons. I'd never share my burner on a network (home machine), or use Spindoctor 2 because my G4's mic port is shot. Deja Vu works well and for the other bits like Motion Pictures, that's what I use iMovie and FCP for. They have vastly superior interfaces and flexibility.

[biscool]

I was just at the Troy, MI apple store picking up an ipod and they had a bunch of copies of toast 6 for sale. I want the (s)vcd stuff. They had G5's too.

[memento]

Does anyone know how to change the VCD background image?

[ZackS]

Toast 6 only comes with one theme, Ocean, but I'm sure you can make more on your own as the theme is just a layered PSD file. Just duplicate it and move stuff around, change the images and there you go, a new theme. The prospect of making new themes is actually kind of cool, thanks for the idea

I really love the new Video features, it's just everything else that sucks.

This is what the ocean theme looks like for those who haven't seen it: http://pages.cthome.net/zacks/ocean.png

Warning 400KB, 1024x768 image file.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by starman:
Why would I feel stupid? There's nothing on their site about Panther support, and everyone here's been insinuating that Toast 6 is required for Panther support.

Well, for one it works.

[brainchild2b]

ZachS,

Thanks for the review of Toast 6, it's the best post thus far!

[Synotic]

OK, well I totally disagree on the bad UI comment I personally find the new UI a lot more task oriented. Easier for people who don't know what they're doing. Before you just had Data, Music, Other... And then in other about 20 different random things that means nothing to the average person. Now you have 4 tabs, Data, Audio, Video, and Copy. Once you click on a tab, you have your options drawer on the left which gives you two options. Basic or Advanced. For instance, clicking on Data, in the Basic tab there is "Mac Only" and "Mac & PC". Once you click on Advanced you can choose ISO 9660, Custom Hybrid, and there are options like Copy Desktop Database, HFS Standard. Same type of thing all over the app. Not everything has extra options. The options appear and disappear as needed. As Zack mentioned, as you resize the "arch" resizes itself. It personally doesn't seem that slow to me.. I'm on a 1Ghz PB though. Anyways, here are some temporary pictures... Grab them when you can




I think the interface looks a lot nicer than before with the exception of that Aqua bubble... even I can do better than that!

[laxthxdude]

Well, after using it for a while, I just orderd my copy of it. Here is my review of it: best burning software i've used on any platform. period.

Installation is drag and drop. No reboot. Application is single package. Drag it to wherever you like and your done.

The interface is about as straight forward and simple to use as you can get. From using it, I'd almost swear its a cocoa app...(Any one confirm?)...

The biggest thing for me is that it does DVDs from mpeg-1s with drag and drop. Now, I can take my records from my EyeTV and record them to DVD. No more demuxing mpeg streams and importing them into iMovie, etc. Just drag it in and your done.

The other big item that I will also use is the built in backup features. Too bad OS X doesn't have something built in like this. Sure there's backup, but requiring a .Mac account for it is wrong. Windows has ntbackup built into it, OS X needs something also.

Toss in the labeling program, the Spin Doctor and the remote disc burning and the software is easily one of the top ones I've used for OS X.

Thanks Roxio for a solid product. It's my pleasure to support software companies that write software that kicks ass.

[Synotic]

Originally posted by laxthxdude:
The interface is about as straight forward and simple to use as you can get. From using it, I'd almost swear its a cocoa app...(Any one confirm?)...

Well definitely not a Cocoa app but it is using nibs Sorry if this is old info: