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Hawkeye · Aug 28, 2004, 11:38 AM

How much hard drive space do you guys have available?

I get these freezes (occurring FREQUENTLY) but it seems to coincide with my hard drive getting full -- say, under 3GB. If I clean my hard drive off a bit, they usually seem to go away.

I really think the problem is VM. Have you guys seen how this OS handles resources? Look at Activity monitor:

http://homepage.mac.com/cellis/misc/activitymon.pdf (SCREENSHOT)

500MB+ VM to kernel_task
100MB+ VM to iChat
etc.

That's ridiculous! The computer is consuming over 3.6GB in VM!

So you can see, when I get less than 3GB free on my hard drive, the computer's going to get a little cranky because it doesn't have enough HD space to suck up for VM!

Check your free space vs. virtual memory consumption. Tell me it's not just me.

--
Powerbook G4 500MHz
512MB RAM
30GB HD

zerock · Aug 28, 2004, 12:28 PM

that could be it Hawkeye, but since i have disabled APE, and shapeshifter my freezes are gone it seems, and my powerbook doesnt get as hot. But my guess is that APE is causing VM to go way up higher than supposed to, or either my disk is fragmented, and has problems using VM with the fragmented parts, So a program like ShapeShifter sucking VM, would make it freeze.And in case this is also related to having less free space than the VM file, I'm gonna get a external HDD and try to free HDD space on the startup disk.

Hawkeye · Aug 28, 2004, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by zerock:
that could be it Hawkeye, but since i have disabled APE, and shapeshifter my freezes are gone it seems, and my powerbook doesnt get as hot. But my guess is that APE is causing VM to go way up higher than supposed to, or either my disk is fragmented, and has problems using VM with the fragmented parts, So a program like ShapeShifter sucking VM, would make it freeze.And in case this is also related to having less free space than the VM file, I'm gonna get a external HDD and try to free HDD space on the startup disk.

Yeah, I don't even have APE installed.

EmmEff · Aug 28, 2004, 11:30 PM

FWIW, I have almost 20GB of free disk space and my iBook (w/all updates) still crashes regularly...

I just took a peek at Activity Monitor and see that Safari is using 279MB of virtual memory, which seems QUITE excessive on a machine with 768MB of physical memory. On a perhaps related note, Safari needs help... how is it possibly using 10% of the CPU while sitting idle (display a static page without animated GIFs or using a plug-in)?

As a new Mac user, this is such a disappointment. I was told about how stable OS X is compared to Windows XP. On OS X, I get 2 day uptimes TOPS (!!!)...

zerock · Aug 29, 2004, 01:49 AM

ok i pin pointed my problem to itunes (apparently big library causing problems), so i disabled auto-manage, and all appears good, i will reply here tomorrow, letting ppl know if it did freeze again, or if this fixed it till i get the External Drive.

addiecool · Aug 29, 2004, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by zerock:
ok i pin pointed my problem to itunes (apparently big library causing problems), so i disabled auto-manage, and all appears good, i will reply here tomorrow, letting ppl know if it did freeze again, or if this fixed it till i get the External Drive.

How big is big? I have a 22GB Library with around 3200 Songs. Is that big?

Peabo · Aug 30, 2004, 09:56 PM

Ok, it's happening to me too now. I thought it might be a problem with my newly purchased wacom tablet or maybe my extermal lacie drive or something...

The mouse also seems to almost freeze when it happens - it often jerks around then sticks etc. Nothing but a forced reboot will fix it. I've just installed the 'unlockupd' fix - I'll see if it does anything to help.

This is on my rev b Al powerbook 17" btw.

ETPhoneHome815 · Aug 31, 2004, 01:36 AM

Symptoms: everything freezes except the mouse... sometimes it recovers... sometimes reboot required

Conditions: iTunes + Safari (no AirPort, no APE, no haxies, no iPod)

Timeframe: started happening in about the past month or so (since maybe around 1 AUG 2004 - not a precise date, just a guesstimate)

System: 1.25 GHz mirror-door G4 (tested with 512 MB (stock) RAM and 1GB (512 stock + 512 Kensington RAM), 10.3.5

Temporary Fix(?): no running iTunes = no more crashing (stable for almost a week now)

Link · Aug 31, 2004, 02:27 AM

Funny, I only have 263 songs in itunes..

Azzgunther · Aug 31, 2004, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by ETPhoneHome815:

Temporary Fix(?): no running iTunes = no more crashing (stable for almost a week now)

It seems to be iTunes related a lot of the time for me. I'll start a song up, and within 2 minutes the thing is hanging. Defragmenting the startup drive DOES make the freezes end for about 5 days. However, I can ruin things by using Bittorrent, thus returning the computer to it's normal flawed state.

Basically, 5 days w/out freezes can be achieved (in my case) by not using Bittorrent. After the 5 days or bittorrent, iTunes starts freezing the thing again.

EmmEff · Aug 31, 2004, 06:20 PM

This is really starting to get to me... I am rebooting at least once per day now because of the lockup problem. I have two days to return this iBook and give up on the Mac. This is a HUGE disappointment.

I cannot believe enough people are affected to create a 9 page thread and Apple doesn't have a fix for this.

What can I/we do to make this problem known to Apple? This is totally unacceptable.

Azzgunther · Aug 31, 2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by EmmEff:
I cannot believe enough people are affected to create a 9 page thread and Apple doesn't have a fix for this.

What can I/we do to make this problem known to Apple? This is totally unacceptable.

We had a 675-post thread at Apple's own forums until they locked the topic.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

Instead of silencing us, they need to respond to - and acknowledge - the flaw.

Spliff · Aug 31, 2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by EmmEff:
This is really starting to get to me... I am rebooting at least once per day now because of the lockup problem. I have two days to return this iBook and give up on the Mac. This is a HUGE disappointment.

I cannot believe enough people are affected to create a 9 page thread and Apple doesn't have a fix for this.

What can I/we do to make this problem known to Apple? This is totally unacceptable.

Send them feedback via the OS X feedback link at their website.

You have an iBook. Are you sure you don't have a defective logic board that all the iBooks seem to have?

torifile · Aug 31, 2004, 09:03 PM

RAM issue maybe? This problem is more often intermittent than regular. That sounds like a hardware issue.

EmmEff · Aug 31, 2004, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Azzgunther:
We had a 675-post thread at Apple's own forums until they locked the topic.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

Instead of silencing us, they need to respond to - and acknowledge - the flaw.

Hmmm... in the meantime, I am supposed to tolerate my brand new notebook crashing daily? This is better than a PC how?

EmmEff · Aug 31, 2004, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by torifile:
RAM issue maybe? This problem is more often intermittent than regular. That sounds like a hardware issue.

Have you read any of this thread?

Spliff · Aug 31, 2004, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by EmmEff:
I experienced my first lockup in the first hour or so of Mac ownership, so that was a bit of a disappointment. It seems if I stay away from Expose, the machine is okay. The only thing I can think is that the video card is being taxed when using Expose. Maybe a bug in the video subsystem?

Emm,

I don't think you have the same problem as other people here. New iBooks don't crash within a hour of ownership unless there is a hardware problem like bad factory RAM or a defective logic board.

The issue here is related to virtual memory, the file system, disk fragmentation, and in many cases, heavy network usage (bittorrent, downloading newsgroups binaries). Apple is aware of the problem and is working on a fix, according to a poster over at Macintouch.com.

This problem is not related to Expos� and it's not easily reproducible. It is a file system bug that is triggered only in certain circumstances. Expose has nothing to do with it.

I suggest you take your iBook into an Apple shop and have the technicians test the RAM and logic board.

EmmEff · Sep 1, 2004, 04:45 PM

On that condescending note, I'll just watch the thread from the sidelines from now on...

My symptoms are identical to those of the original poster who started the thread. Whether I am a new Mac user or not, the fact of the matter remains that (a) my hardware checks out fine, and (b) my machine freezes sometimes once or twice per day.

Spliff · Sep 1, 2004, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by EmmEff:
On that condescending note, I'll just watch the thread from the sidelines from now on...

How is my post condescending? I just made a suggestion and offered my opinion that your problem may be hardware related. There was no condescension in my words.

torifile · Sep 1, 2004, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by EmmEff:
Have you read any of this thread?

What do you think?

I was merely throwing out a possibility. I'd take it in. Return it and get another. It's a regular problem. You should be able to get it replaced.

EmmEff · Sep 3, 2004, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by torifile:
I was merely throwing out a possibility. I'd take it in. Return it and get another. It's a regular problem. You should be able to get it replaced.

Is there any diagnostic tool I can run to prove this is a logic board problem? I mean, taking in what appears to be a fully functional notebook and claiming it's broken isn't going to get me anywhere. I've been down that road before...

Azzgunther · Sep 3, 2004, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by EmmEff:
Is there any diagnostic tool I can run to prove this is a logic board problem? I mean, taking in what appears to be a fully functional notebook and claiming it's broken isn't going to get me anywhere. I've been down that road before...

None that I've heard of. Do you live near an Apple store? Call in and set up a time for them to look at it.

EmmEff · Sep 3, 2004, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Azzgunther:
None that I've heard of. Do you live near an Apple store? Call in and set up a time for them to look at it.

I live in Canada, we don't have Apple Stores here. I guess calling Apple is my next step.

Azzgunther · Sep 3, 2004, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by EmmEff:
I live in Canada, we don't have Apple Stores here. I guess calling Apple is my next step.

It's free

Good luck.

Krypton · Sep 3, 2004, 04:08 PM

More crashes! Apple is my friend....bah.

I hope they go bankrupt soon

Sealobo · Sep 5, 2004, 06:05 AM

Does the "AirPort Card Update 2004-08-31" have the potential to fix this lock-up issue?

ambush · Sep 5, 2004, 09:41 AM

my brand new pb12 is hard crashing with P2P apps for no apparent reason...

Krypton · Sep 5, 2004, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Sealobo:
Does the "AirPort Card Update 2004-08-31" have the potential to fix this lock-up issue?

Nope, had crashes since that update.

I'm just curious as to how we make a big stink about this, to get Apple's attention. Emailing Steve usually works, but him being out of action would make it a tad insensitive.

ambush · Sep 5, 2004, 04:31 PM

WTF THIS NEW PB12 IS CRASHING RANDOMLY

OS 9 STYLE.

OMG...

Link · Sep 5, 2004, 05:48 PM

Crashes still going strong here

Unfortunately unlockupd isn't helping as I thought it would.

I have been on MUCH less lately though.. dsl's out and all.. so I haven't seen one in a few days *sigh*

EmmEff · Sep 5, 2004, 08:44 PM

Still crashing here... I was able to reproduce the problem by cycling through the Expose buttons about a dozen times. The crash before that was during heavy network traffic (copying files from a Windows machine).

My dealer is out of stock of 12" iBooks, but I am going to try and get this one exchanged. I am still not convinced it's a hardware problem given the fact that the symptoms of my freeze are very similar to reports on this forum as well as Apple's Discussion boards.

nforcer · Sep 6, 2004, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by Azzgunther:
We had a 675-post thread at Apple's own forums until they locked the topic.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

Instead of silencing us, they need to respond to - and acknowledge - the flaw.

That's really terrible.

Start a new thread, and keep posting to it until this gets fixed.

Krypton · Sep 8, 2004, 11:29 AM

If someone could confirm that they still get crashes after the latest security update, I'd be grateful.

Mr Scruff · Sep 8, 2004, 07:27 PM

I know people reading this thread don't want to hear this - but it is the case that the majority of people aren't experiencing this problem. So if you've just bought a Mac and it's crashing all the time then there's something wrong with your setup. I'm not saying it's your fault, I'm just saying that there's no point assuming it will happen with a replacement machine.

For reference, I've owned this iBook for a year and it's crashed once in that time.

Hawkeye · Sep 8, 2004, 10:34 PM

Can someone remind me how to loop the Apple diagnostic?

Link · Sep 8, 2004, 11:42 PM

I believe it's either command L or Option L....

The crashes can be a lot of things. Perhaps it's the system chipset, system firmware, or simply the programs we use and the uptime we try to get out of them.

One time I redid my system entirely, including format 3 times in a row because I had a few qualms with the installs.. after that I had a freaking NINE DAY uptime, which got killed with a typic lookupd crash. Damn.

The truth is it has nothing to do with the setup in these cases, and whatever it is that's causing the problem, maybe isn't affecting other people.. Are there anyone with imacs getting affected by this? I doubt it...

ism · Sep 9, 2004, 05:20 AM

I never realised how big an issue this was because I've had no problems until now. It could be coincidence, but it's just started happening to me after the latest security update on a 12" pbook Rev B. Had 3 freezes this morning doing nothing in particular. Haven't exactly had time to read the whole thread but gonna try some of the things on page 1 for now.

theaidan · Sep 9, 2004, 05:04 PM

I have an 800 mhz iMac and I've been getting these crashes for months. They come in bunches, appear most often when I am doing web-intensive work and have lots of apps open, though this isn't always the case, and almost always are iTunes related. I can move the mouse, the music stops for about 30 seconds, then plays again and stops. Nothing is active. At times, merely having iTunes and Safari open at the same time (as I do now, fingers crossed) crashes the system. Keeping iTunes off eliminates the issue.

Azzgunther · Sep 9, 2004, 05:50 PM

Every few pages I like to reiterate what works for me:

Tech Tool Pro 4 - Disc Maintenance Routine and then the Disc Optomization Routine on the main OSX hard drive.

This 20 min. procedure keeps things functional for 5 days.

mbi · Sep 10, 2004, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by Azzgunther:
Every few pages I like to reiterate what works for me:

Tech Tool Pro 4 - Disc Maintenance Routine and then the Disc Optomization Routine on the main OSX hard drive.

This 20 min. procedure keeps things functional for 5 days.

Ditto here, same tool, same procedure, keeps the freezes away for some time.

(Takes more like 4 hours to run the optimization routine on my 80 Gig drive, though)