[daimoni]

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[voodoo]

WAR! Unf. What is it good for?! ABSOLOUTLY NOTHING! YEAH!

Could you rephrase the question daimoni (I know it must be very late in California now so use the Force )

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by voodoo:
WAR! Unf. What is it good for?! ABSOLOUTLY NOTHING! YEAH!

Could you rephrase the question daimoni (I know it must be very late in California now so use the Force )

I agree. Coz the way it is posted, nobody will answer...

[Millennium]

Truth be told, I would imagine that any rational person wants peace, including everyone here.

The problem is, truly rational people seldom get into power, and it's the people in power who really matter in times like these. Again, I think the question is poorly worded.

I want peace, but more than that, I want lasting peace. I can't accept a quick-fix even if it ends the war tomorrow. I want a permanent solution, where neither side will be capable of betraying it.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by Millennium:
I want peace, but more than that, I want lasting peace.

if you'd want that, you'd need to run a "stable" system. just like on a computer. right now, the world is way to instable and "polarized".

just like with anything else, maintanance is the key issue.

as much of a slimeball bin laden is, he was absolutely right when he said that "opression kills the opressor".

at any rate, it would take a lot of effort and a long time to achieve "whirld peas".

[daimoni]

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[daimoni]

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[lil'babykitten]

I want to live in a peaceful world one day.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by daimoni:
I'm not trying to be deep. I'm just short of sleep.

A couple of things. I was attempting to make a few observations and then pose a question. I'll try to break it out:

1. Every difference between two or more groups of people has been rehashed here for many pages in length over and over.

2. Right and wrong becomes defined by our differences.

3. But what defines our positions... besides these differences?

I can only speak for myself, of course, but the concept of peace is one thing, and its application is another.

We can have peace by eliminating our noisy neighbour, but who says the next one will not be worse? We can talk with your neighbour and try to achieve an agreement, but if the noise comes from his needs to survive, we won't have peace, and unless someone gives up, it may escalate...

We can eradicate life on the planet. That is a permanent solution, but no one will enjoy it, except in the after life... Let's call that "static peace"

We can also have peace at the point of gun; no protest anymore and on top of that, we get something nice: power and control to maintain the peace the way we want it. That would be a "dynamic peace"; dynamic because it involves people to do something to make a context "peaceful". Peace from submission, peace from domination...

We can also have peace by avoiding issues totally. I have seen this working for real, but it is very efficient as long as there a lot of physical space available (getting out of sight and all). One of the tricks is to make sure that confrontations are made privately, so that no one lose face publicly. It also means that people are open minded to discuss the issue by listening first, then think, think again, and again, then reply...

Compromising on an ongoing basis is also a dynamic peace.

I am totally for peace. But do you want my peace?

And then there is freedom. How much freedom does it require to achieve peace? When is freedom interfering with peace?

[Shaddim]

I suppose I'm a very cynical person, but I truly believe that total peace is impossible. I would give a philisophical (and Theosophical) reason, but most people wouldn't want to hear it anyway. And no, it's not some "Revelations, apocolyptical BS" either.

[netgear]

Peace is impossible when it's humans you are dealing with. Whether it makes you comfortable or not we are all still animals just like every other animal on this planet. And in order to survive other animals must kill other animals. The difference being that animals kill other animals just to survive while humans kill other humans for irrational reasons (mostly). As long as that element of irrationality is there peace is impossible.

[eklipse]

I don't believe total, lasting, peace will ever be achieved - if it did, the world would get very boring, very fast - ultimately resulting in unrest.

I don't think humanity can exist in a functional state without some sort of internal struggle and anxiety. Society needs to be at war with something for some reason.

[ghost_flash]

I think the worst is yet to come, and the world will have to pull together in order to rid itself of those who do not want a lasting peace.

The key ingredient that is necessary for peace is for the world to work *together*. This means putting aside political differences, extracting those individuals who only seek power and profit on the backs of the many, and help each other where necessary.

It's a sad thing that people feel the need to fly planes into buildings to achieve their end desires. The erradication of *their* sworn enemies.

I know that constant violent conflict across the globe cannot be tolerated any longer. The world is shrinking, and as technology (e.g. Faster Planes and transport to the farthest reaches of the globe in shorter times.) increases and furthers the reach of *everyone*, then it will unfortunately enable those that impose themselves without representing any country will be harder to defend from.

The good people of the world will be the ones who suffer the most. I'm open to solutions if anyone has any. I also want to add that I have no ill will against any Muslim, or other religion as I firmly believe the vast majority do not condone horrible acts in their name, just as I believe that the vast majority of Christians do not condone the horrid acts of the few, in their name.

These are reasonable assertions, and not so complicated, so why oh-why cannot the leaders of the world get their act together?

Russia is a financial basket-case.
Chine, I am in awe of their vast problems and human rights violations along with North Korea.
Iceland - Just kidding.
Africa? - They have their own rediculous problems throughout.

I'm just nameing some off the top, because I'm not a geo-expert, but am only posting to fuel some others who have ammassed (sp) a vaster kowledge of the instability that the many regions of the world are currently facing.

---

On the media ends of things - Let us all be honest for the sake of this thread at least. They are all out to put a magnifying glass on the worlds troubles, not to show them and attempt some high and mighty act, but to be as they always have been. Self-serving, glory gore hounds. If it is a train wreck, they are there with film at 11. I'm not against the free press, but who gave them card-blanche? (sp) to no accountability or ethical reporting? I see less and less ethics in reporting the older I get.

Everyone attacks America, well I've stated it before, and I will do it again. Why the hell does everyone want to live here?

I don't understand the love-hate relationship. I've traveled the world too, and when I came home, I kissed the ground because I have seen for myself why anyone would want to come here, and I'm all for it.

Here is one person who wants peace for the world, because if anything, the USA is not the biggest place, and China / Russia etc. could sublet some space if they only were as attractive to live as the USA... There is a question to be pondered. Give that a few minutes to sink it.

Russia / China have great things to offer the world except for?

I remember when I was in grade school, and I was learning about the world and what each country specifically offered. You know the drill, Mexico : population, language, crops, exports, imports, cultural history... and I don't remember anything in school about illegal aliens, drug runners, corrupt officials, slave wages, the rich / poor ratio. Well, one grows up and the more you see, the more you just WISH people could just worry about the important things. Each other.

Sorry for the rantish post, but I'm laying it out on the line here. No BS.
- Stepping down off of the pulpit.

Thoughts?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Thoughts?

Yeah. You should post like that more often.

[ghost_flash]

I think I just had a "Jery McQuire" moment.

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yeah. You should post like that more often.

Good post flash

[ghost_flash]

Oh, great. Now they'll all be calling me a peace-mongerer...

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I think the worst is yet to come, and the world will have to pull together in order to rid itself of those who do not want a lasting peace.
(...)
Sorry for the rantish post, but I'm laying it out on the line here. No BS.
- Stepping down off of the pulpit.

Thoughts?

I also believe ghost_flash's post is a great post.

About the second part of it, I would like to say this: the problem is that often, people generalize U.S. foreign policy (or worse, the actions of its leaders) to the population.

I think it is a huge mistake. I apologize if I generalized that way before.

I too believe America is a great country. I am always impressed (and sometimes envious) for the accomplishments of many Americans (those I heard of). But what the American Corporate Cast does at times (those I heard of) makes me feel very insecure, and I do not believe the American Government is free of corruption; any country is certainly is subjected to the same. That is scary, simply for the fact that the U.S. has such a large footprint on the world (economically, politically, militarily). The potential for problems is bigger, and a cause of concern for all the other countries (this explains a lot of the animosity in these forums).

But that does not make the U.S., or any other country, an Evil One. Countries are not evil, but their representatives can be, and patriotism aside, the population is not evil because their leaders could be...

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yeah. You should post like that more often.

ditto

edit:

here's a free *SMACKDOWN* to use at your leisure....since you earned it but didn't smack any particular member down.

[PacHead]

I believe in peace, as soon as the enemy has capitulated, and not one minute before.

[daimoni]

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[finboy]

I think I'm probably echoing what some of you guys are saying about a "lasting" peace, but I don't think we can ever have peace. There will always be someone out there who is caught up in the power (bin ladin, Hussein, you name it) and who will try to use violence to achieve their goals over the weak (at least, or maybe the strong, too). As long as that happens, civilized folks will have to wage war on them. When someone wants to die for his/her cause, the only way to fix it is to help them achieve that end. And quickly, before some bus passengers are involved.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
here's a free *SMACKDOWN* to use at your leisure....since you earned it but didn't smack any particular member down.

Yay!

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by daimoni:
The creeks flowing from the Santa Cruz mountains have filled with water. Western fence lizards run between my feet as salamanders rest along the bank as I pass by them along the trail.

I love that sound.

I miss that sound. I live in a subasement, with a view on the parking lot... I mean the underside of cars.

Yet we can find peace in ourselves.

Let's remove what points at our differences and we may very well decrease the probabilities for conflict.

Is it important to be American, Canadian, Jewish or Muslim?
Is skin color so important when we understand that this is not more important than the color of our eyes?
Is belief so important when we understand it is ours and ours only, and that it is no more important than anyone else's, considering that everyone is "kind of created equal" (in the sense that we are all pretty much all the same, as human beings go)?

And what if we were to focus on what makes us similar (need for food, shelter, safety, freedom of thought, etc.) first before we were to look at our differences?

We may never achieve a perfect peace, but we can certainly improve on the little we already have.

[netgear]

Originally posted by angaq0k:


Is it important to be American, Canadian, Jewish or Muslim?

Yes, cultural identity is very important to who you are, where you came from, and where you are going.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by netgear:
Yes, cultural identity is very important to who you are, where you came from, and where you are going.

But is that a reason for a conflict?

These are tags to categorize people. Is that necessary? And what for exactly? Can you expand on your ideas, please?

I mean, it is important for an individual, yes. But is it important for a group, other than for comparison?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by netgear:
Yes, cultural identity is very important to who you are, where you came from, and where you are going.

*BEEP* Wrong answer.

No, underneath we're all the same, and usually take our cultural rolls too far and often forget that there are no real differences, just implied. We fear people of other societies and cultures because we don't understand them, and too often, don't desire to.

[netgear]

That's not what I meant.

As a third generation German in the U.S. I think it's important to know about my heritage in addition to passing that on to children (if and when I have any). To do away with that is simply the McDonaldization of the human race. No individuality, nothing different, bland, and boring.

[daimoni]

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[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by daimoni:
The creeks flowing from the Santa Cruz mountains have filled with water. Western fence lizards run between my feet as salamanders rest along the bank as I pass by them along the trail.

I love that sound.

this reminds me of a book i read a couple of years ago. i think it was called "america", by t.c. boyle.

[mr. natural]

I believe in peace and try to live it. I like to believe everyone else wants peace too (Even Osama.)

However, Peace does not mean an absence of conflict. This is the big utopian mistake when talking about peace.

Without conflict there would be no peace, just as there would be no night without day.

It seems to me that we confuse peace as just an end in and of itself. In truth, peace is a continuum or whole with conflict; one which requires constant responsible effort to secure if one wants more of peace than of conflict.

In this sense, peace is all about choice; as in how one responds to conflict.

We can choose to ramp up the conflict and thus avoid peace, or we can choose to exert the effort which peace requires of us to overcome conflict.

Within my own life as I try and practice peaceable living. Some days I am more successful than others. But the choice is always mine.

my 2 cents.

[netgear]

Originally posted by daimoni:
I live right next to the train tracks.

But my house has lots of natural light. And I'm only 15 minutes away from the Wilderness.

Heaven is being the only human at the top of one of the many peaks of the Cascade Mountains in Washington State.

[daimoni]

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[daimoni]

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[Face Ache]

Originally posted by daimoni:
And I'm only 15 minutes away from the Wilderness.

Not much of a wilderness then, is it?

Can you catch the train there?

Last Stop: Wilderness!

[daimoni]

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[ebuddy]

humans generally want good things. In most cases those things we consider good are in common. Peace being a main one. The are two pollutants to sustained Peace IMHO, the 1st is differing views on how best to attain and maintain the Peace and the 2nd is Evil spirits. Greed, Envy, Jealousy, Lust, Hatred, Resentment, various forms of depression, etc... I know many hate the term evil, but I believe it to be the absolute truth. I've seen too much of it around me to believe it doesn't exist just as defined. We are generally good people under attack by evil spirits. All the time. Many of our dreams and desires are healthy, but our practices and daily llving are undisciplined. We are not on guard spiritually. I won't go into my personal beliefs too much here, but suffice it to say I believe certain nations and regions are blessed with more Peace than others because they were more in touch with the author of all this nonsense. However, the spiritual attacks do not necessarily decrease when you are on the right track. In many respects they will increase. We will undoubtedly fall prey to them every time because our faith is dead or slowly dying. Generally speaking here folks not singling anyone out.

Which voice do we listen to? It seems to me, unless we seek to have our spirit redirected or at least replenshed often enough for battle we won't even hear one of the voices and we will eventually lose the fight. The good news is, we are a beautful creation and we will never stop trying. Failure is our lot in life, success is our goal. Never stop trying!

[Sven G]

Some interesting reading on peace and conflict solution - IMHO, of course...