Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Dubya website blocked outside the US ??

Dubya website blocked outside the US ??
Thread Tools
Krusty
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Always within bluetooth range
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 26, 2004, 11:20 PM
 
According to netcraft http://www.georgewbush.com/ has blocked access from outside the US. Anyone outside the US wanna try and see if you are being blocked. I'm curious.

If it is ..... why ??
     
t6hawk
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 26, 2004, 11:22 PM
 
I'm in Canada. Loads fine here
:)
     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 26, 2004, 11:57 PM
 
Originally posted by Krusty:
According to netcraft http://www.georgewbush.com/ has blocked access from outside the US. Anyone outside the US wanna try and see if you are being blocked. I'm curious.

If it is ..... why ??

Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
Wiskedjak
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 12:15 AM
 
No problems from Canada. Does that mean I don't have to register as a foreign agent in order to talk about US politics in my own home?
     
Krusty  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Always within bluetooth range
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 12:22 AM
 
The netcraft report actually said the 3 outside test servers were in UK, AUS, and Amsterdam ... so maybe Canadians aren't considered foreign agents per se ... just cheap drug pushers
     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 12:49 AM
 
Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
No problems from Canada. Does that mean I don't have to register as a foreign agent in order to talk about US politics in my own home?
Just as long as you tell yourself your correct location.

But how would you know you were telling you the truth?

It MIGHT not be verifiable, thus not enforceable, in which case the answer might be...

Hmmm...good question. I'll have to think about that one.
Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
jojo gunne
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: When you get there, there you are.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 12:59 AM
 
Ahhhhh.....I've got a question.

Who wants to go there anyway?

LOL!!1!11!
     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 02:40 AM
 
Originally posted by jojo gunne:
Ahhhhh.....I've got a question.

Who wants to go there anyway?
Hey, Canada is the "Poutine" eater's heaven!
Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
Splinter
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: with stupid
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 05:28 AM
 
strange....

tried loading it in opera firefox and intercrapexploder all of them said access denied... poop
     
Troll
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 05:41 AM
 
From France.

It was working yesterday. Not working anymore.

You are not authorized to view this page
You might not have permission to view this directory or page using the credentials you supplied.
     
Logic
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The northernmost capital of the world
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 05:46 AM
 
Not working.


WTF!?!




"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
chalk_outline
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: sleep
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 06:09 AM
 
http://news.netcraft.com/


http://www.georgewbush.com was running Microsoft-IIS on Linux

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?...eorgewbush.com

Is this possible? Last Week It ran on Windows Server 2003.


http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?....johnkerry.com
http://www.johnkerry.com was running Apache on Linux
     
Ω
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 07:21 AM
 
Foreign Agent - not working.

What is he hiding????

     
Tarambana
Forum Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Madrid, Spain
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 07:30 AM
 
Though it works just fine through proxies. Not that there is so much interesting content, anyway.
     
jbartone
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 07:34 AM
 
I have NEVER been able to get to it, even a few months ago.

Optusnet Cable, Australia.
     
DBursey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 08:02 AM
 
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Hey, Canada is the "Poutine" eater's heaven!
Incorrect. Poutine is typically eaten only in Quebec (for the geographically challenged, that's a Canadian province where the majority speak french).

Trust aberdeenwriter for all your factual inaccuracies (not available to Quebec residents).
     
y0y0
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Not Poland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 11:29 AM
 
Working fine here, so maybe I'm in the US, but maybe I'm in Poland using an anonymous proxy server in the US, like a good foreign agent would.

But this is so fukking pathetic anyway. Is the point of blocking foreign access to the Bush's website meant to stir up American fear of foreigners, or is it so that Bush's nutjobs can post virulent xenophobic crap about how dangerous "Them foreigners" are, or what?

And it's also shooting himself in the foot, as is typical, because Americans overseas can now not view the site, so he loses potential votes.

What a fukking dumbass.
But what about POLAND?
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 11:33 AM
 
It's a very similar tactic that they used when they had the "print out a campaign poster" section of the website. You had to select the state you were in, and if you selected Massachusetts or some other "libral" state, you weren't allowed to print posters. Which was very silly, a) there are republicans in MA; and b) anyone who wanted to could just select Iowa from the pulldown instead.
     
jojo gunne
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: When you get there, there you are.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 11:41 AM
 
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Hey, Canada is the "Poutine" eater's heaven!
I meant the Bushy web site.

Who wants to go there?

LOL!!1!11!
     
Mithras
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: :ИOITAↃO⅃
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 11:46 AM
 
Comment on slashdot says that using the IP address:

http://65.172.163.222/

works fine. Can a Foreign Agent confirm?
     
Busemann
Mac Elite
Join Date: Feb 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 11:59 AM
 
Originally posted by Mithras:
Comment on slashdot says that using the IP address:

http://65.172.163.222/

works fine. Can a Foreign Agent confirm?
that one works..

What a way to treat allies though, forcing us to type in IP addresses
     
nath
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 12:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Mithras:
Comment on slashdot says that using the IP address:

http://65.172.163.222/

works fine. Can a Foreign Agent confirm?


confirmed.



f*cking hell, it looks like Starship Troopers!!!!!
     
dziuopl
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 01:11 PM
 
Once again confirmed, using the name ain't working but the IP loads just fine (from Denmark)
     
itai195
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Cupertino, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 01:20 PM
 
Perhaps just a DNS entry that somehow hasn't propagated overseas yet. Strange.

Anyway, vote for Kerry, his site uses Apache!
     
nath
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 01:31 PM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
Perhaps just a DNS entry that somehow hasn't propagated overseas yet. Strange.

Anyway, vote for Kerry, his site uses Apache!
looks like more than a mistake!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/27/bushwhacked/
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 02:11 PM
 
That is so incredibly lame...I mean, just dumb.

     
Logic
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The northernmost capital of the world
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 03:17 PM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That is so incredibly lame...I mean, just dumb.

seconded

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 04:31 PM
 
Originally posted by DBursey:
Incorrect. Poutine is typically eaten only in Quebec (for the geographically challenged, that's a Canadian province where the majority speak french).

Trust aberdeenwriter for all your factual inaccuracies (not available to Quebec residents).
I also heard someone say Canucks were the most efficient, ruthless and dangerous people he's ever known.

Mebbe, DBursey is a transplant?

So, let me get this right...K-Beck is part of Canada, oui?

Poutine is typically eaten only in K-Beck, oui?

So my original assertion is challenged by, what? Your little attempt at a Fuzzy Slam?

C'mon DBursey, you can do better.
Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 04:36 PM
 
Originally posted by jojo gunne:
I meant the Bushy web site.

Who wants to go there?
uhhh, YOU?!

And half the libs on this thread! You guys are so predictable. HAHAHAHHA! Messing with your minds is like a parlor game!
Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
Nicko
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cairo
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 04:42 PM
 
Originally posted by nath:
confirmed.



f*cking hell, it looks like Starship Troopers!!!!!
Ok that new address worked for me too.

Agreed. That site is scary, and ugly!
     
spacefreak
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 05:22 PM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That is so incredibly lame...I mean, just dumb.
It has to do with certain 'outages'.

Here and here...
October 21, 2004

Web sites for President Bush's campaign and the Republican National Committee suffered outages for several hours on Wednesday. It was not immediately clear whether a systems failure or a hacking attack was to blame. Campaign and committee officials would only say they were investigating.

Protesters often attempt to bring down sites by overwhelming them with so much bogus traffic that legitimate visitors could not get through. The fact that two sites suffered outages simultaneously suggests such a coordinated attack.

But analysts with AlertSite and Keynote say other evidence suggests a technical problem.

Roopak Patel, senior Internet analyst for Keynote, said many of the errors related to the Domain Name System, the computers that translate a domain name into a site's actual numeric address. Those errors often occur when incorrect or incomplete information is loaded into the system.
     
DBursey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 05:54 PM
 
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
I also heard someone say Canucks were the most efficient, ruthless and dangerous people he's ever known.

Mebbe, DBursey is a transplant?

So, let me get this right...K-Beck is part of Canada, oui?

Poutine is typically eaten only in K-Beck, oui?

So my original assertion is challenged by, what? Your little attempt at a Fuzzy Slam?

C'mon DBursey, you can do better.
'Better' is not required in this instance, my friend. Canada is a 'poutine eater's haven' as the United States is a 'polygamist haven'. Quebec is as broadly representative as Utah in these disparate yet analogous contexts.
     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 07:02 PM
 
Originally posted by DBursey:
'Better' is not required in this instance, my friend. Canada is a 'poutine eater's haven' as the United States is a 'polygamist haven'. Quebec is as broadly representative as Utah in these disparate yet analogous contexts.
Polygamy...Poutine...and a nice bottle of...Pouilly Fuiss!
Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
Jim Paradise
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 08:44 PM
 
Originally posted by DBursey:
Incorrect. Poutine is typically eaten only in Quebec (for the geographically challenged, that's a Canadian province where the majority speak french).

Trust aberdeenwriter for all your factual inaccuracies (not available to Quebec residents).
While Quebec tends to have a more diverse amount of poutine, you can get it anywhere in Ontario and people love it here. It makes for such an excellent snack or quick meal.
     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 08:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Jim Paradise:
While Quebec tends to have a more diverse amount of poutine, you can get it anywhere in Ontario and people love it here. It makes for such an excellent snack or quick meal.
Do you have a particular gravy of preference?



EDIT: I don't eat pork and recently stopped eating beef too (I fear that CJD might prematurely impair my intellectual function) would chicken or turkey gravy work?

Can you specify which one when you order it at a restaurant?
( Last edited by aberdeenwriter; Oct 27, 2004 at 08:57 PM. )
Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
mikellanes
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Right Here.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 08:57 PM
 
Is it just me? Where's waldo?

     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 08:59 PM
 
Originally posted by mikellanes:
Is it just me? Where's waldo?
That's merely an example of a "force multiplier."
Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
mikellanes
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Right Here.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 09:04 PM
 
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
That's merely an example of a "force multiplier."
     
Saad
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nashville
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 10:20 PM
 
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
uhhh, YOU?!

And half the libs on this thread! You guys are so predictable. HAHAHAHHA! Messing with your minds is like a parlor game!
And provoking you into foolish rants about the foreigners amongst us is like a child's parlor game.
     
Mithras
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: :ИOITAↃO⅃
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 10:45 PM
 
Originally posted by mikellanes:
Is it just me? Where's waldo?
How did you spot that, anyway?
( Last edited by Mithras; Oct 27, 2004 at 11:20 PM. )
     
ThinkInsane
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Night's Plutonian shore...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 10:56 PM
 
Originally posted by DBursey:
Incorrect. Poutine is typically eaten only in Quebec (for the geographically challenged, that's a Canadian province where the majority speak french).

Trust aberdeenwriter for all your factual inaccuracies (not available to Quebec residents).
I go to Kingston Ontario a couple of times a month, and they have that foul dish every where. Even the McDonalds on Princess St. has it. Talk about a big heaping plate of heart attack! Just nasty, I say.
Nemo me impune lacesset
     
aberdeenwriter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2004, 11:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Saad:
And provoking you into foolish rants about the foreigners amongst us is like a child's parlor game.
Oh, Saad, you provoke nothing but yawns. Although your efforts to be provocative do deserve an honorable mention. Just like your website.

Hey, I couldn't put something like that together, so good for you!

BTW, the point of the thread was made. It was (finally) understood by those who wanted to understand and those who had/have sufficient mental horsepower.

My referring to it is one thing. Your references to it simply amounts to a non issue because YOU MISS THE MEANING.

I never said or supported that which you are railing against. Therefore, you are trying to argue a point I never tried to make.
Therefore, you're looking to debate an issue which no one supports.

Get it?

There MAY be things you can dig up that would be suitable for rehashing. But this ain't it, pal.

Hey, why don't you re-hash that GREAT thread of yours accusing white women of being the greatest abortionists and while you're at it, leave me out of it...ok?

Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
effgee
Caffeinated Theme Master
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: hell (says dakar)
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 28, 2004, 09:03 AM
 
Originally posted by Krusty:
... If it is ..... why ??
Because there's nothing but seasoned professionals working for the Bush campaign ... and they have to make sure that evil terrorist hackers can't make a mess of Dubya's site.
  • Because hackers would never ... ever think to attack the domains' IP address or even make a complex substitution within the address field of their web browser.
Professionals, the whole lot of them.

     
badidea
Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 28, 2004, 09:40 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That is so incredibly lame...I mean, just dumb.

...and that's exactly what the Bush supporters like so much about him:
he's not flip-flopping - even his website is just as intelligent as him!
***
     
Saad
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nashville
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 28, 2004, 04:58 PM
 
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Oh, Saad, you provoke nothing but yawns. Although your efforts to be provocative do deserve an honorable mention. Just like your website.

Hey, I couldn't put something like that together, so good for you!

BTW, the point of the thread was made. It was (finally) understood by those who wanted to understand and those who had/have sufficient mental horsepower.

My referring to it is one thing. Your references to it simply amounts to a non issue because YOU MISS THE MEANING.

I never said or supported that which you are railing against. Therefore, you are trying to argue a point I never tried to make.
Therefore, you're looking to debate an issue which no one supports.

I was replying to (what I can only assume was humor, judging from your post) reply here:

Orginally posted by Aberdeenwriter:

Just as long as you tell yourself your correct location.

But how would you know you were telling you the truth?

It MIGHT not be verifiable, thus not enforceable, in which case the answer might be...

Hmmm...good question. I'll have to think about that one.
Relax.

I'm kind of surprised that Akami was selected, there have been a slew of attacks against their sites.
     
gabadva
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Home of the Student Prince
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 29, 2004, 10:12 AM
 
Originally posted by Mithras:
Comment on slashdot says that using the IP address:

http://65.172.163.222/

works fine. Can a Foreign Agent confirm?
Foreign agent responding - no clear - see-aye-ay probably got me on the list now from the country to the right of France. Bet they can't decode this!
     
Saad
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nashville
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 1, 2004, 11:11 PM
 
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Oh, Saad, you provoke nothing but yawns. Although your efforts to be provocative do deserve an honorable mention. Just like your website.

Hey, I couldn't put something like that together, so good for you!
Thankyou.
|
|
V
     
TheBadgerHunter
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2004, 12:05 AM
 
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Oh, Saad, you provoke nothing but yawns. Although your efforts to be provocative do deserve an honorable mention. Just like your website.

Hey, I couldn't put something like that together, so good for you!

BTW, the point of the thread was made. It was (finally) understood by those who wanted to understand and those who had/have sufficient mental horsepower.

My referring to it is one thing. Your references to it simply amounts to a non issue because YOU MISS THE MEANING.

I never said or supported that which you are railing against. Therefore, you are trying to argue a point I never tried to make.
Therefore, you're looking to debate an issue which no one supports.

Get it?

There MAY be things you can dig up that would be suitable for rehashing. But this ain't it, pal.

Hey, why don't you re-hash that GREAT thread of yours accusing white women of being the greatest abortionists and while you're at it, leave me out of it...ok?

You sound like some sort of genetic cross between Bush and Kerry. Your sentences are incoherent and you can't stop talking. For instance you replied to a post asking why anyone would want to go to that site with some crap about poutine. Do you have ADD or something?

Furthermore, while poutine is available throughout most of Canada at Burger King it is in fact a Quebec (eastern canada) dish. Most people here do not love it, like it, or even find it mildly edible. Thus it is a regional dish not a national one.

Please, please stop being a little ****.
     
Saad
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nashville
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2004, 08:10 AM
 
Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
You sound like some sort of genetic cross between Bush and Kerry. Your sentences are incoherent and you can't stop talking. For instance you replied to a post asking why anyone would want to go to that site with some crap about poutine. Do you have ADD or something?

Furthermore, while poutine is available throughout most of Canada at Burger King it is in fact a Quebec (eastern canada) dish. Most people here do not love it, like it, or even find it mildly edible. Thus it is a regional dish not a national one.

Please, please stop being a little ****.
I generally give up after the fourth or third line or so. He wants FARA to be enforced, but doesn't want to make it legally binding. A simple position.
     
voodoo
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Salamanca, España
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2004, 08:46 AM
 
How strange! I get access denied to www.georgebush.com and www.georgewbush.com

more importantly though I'm not denied access to www.georgebush.org and www.georgewbush.org



I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:43 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2015 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,