Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

stevesnj · Jan 4, 2009, 07:55 PM

Seems the Euro is very strong against the Dollar and the Uk is even thinking of switching (maybe).

But if there was a unique currency between Europe and North America...could our financial woes be solved or would this collapse the world economy?

turtle777 · Jan 4, 2009, 08:08 PM

Out financial woes be solved ? No, not by a new Mickey Mouse Fiat currency.
Only if that currency was backed by gold.

It will happen at some point, but the US and European governments are going to be kicking and screaming.

The drive is more likely to come from consumers and private companies.

Meanwhile, expect the US $ to drop like a rock in the next 3 years.

-t

mduell · Jan 4, 2009, 08:54 PM

Why bother with gold? How about a new, international wood-backed currency?
Or shells? They don't burn as easily.

I wonder at what point it becomes economically feasible to produce gold via atom smashing.

Hg2491 · Jan 4, 2009, 09:03 PM

I'm still waiting for Latinamerica to have its own currency.

turtle777 · Jan 4, 2009, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Why bother with gold? How about a new, international wood-backed currency?
Or shells? They don't burn as easily.

Are you seriously asking this question ?

-t

mduell · Jan 5, 2009, 03:00 AM

As seriously as you're advocating a gold-backed currency.

turtle777 · Jan 5, 2009, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

As seriously as you're advocating a gold-backed currency.

So you seriously expect me to explain why gold backed is a better idea than wood backed or shell backed ?

Well, for starters:

rarity
durability
divisibility
fungibility
ease of identification,

-t

Big Mac · Jan 5, 2009, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

As seriously as you're advocating a gold-backed currency.

At least gold can't be made a whole lot less precious by fiat, like fiat money can and is whenever governments find it convenient.

Not posting this in the PWL makes this thread a fail, btw.

turtle777 · Jan 5, 2009, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

At least gold can't be made a whole lot less precious by fiat, like fiat money can and is whenever governments find it convenient.

Not posting this in the PWL makes this thread a fail, btw.

We shall see.

-t

Andy8 · Jan 5, 2009, 03:38 AM

Give it six more months and the GBP will be toast.

turtle777 · Jan 5, 2009, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by Andy8

Give it six more months and the GBP will be toast.

I don't think so. Fundamentally, the GBP is in better shape than the USD should be.

The US Fed is printing money like crazy, it's absolutely nuts. Sooner or later, the USD is going to be massively depreciated. The British economy might be in bad shape, but their Central Bank is not quite as reckless as the US Fed.

-t

Andy8 · Jan 5, 2009, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I don't think so. Fundamentally, the GBP is in better shape than the USD should be.

The US Fed is printing money like crazy, it's absolutely nuts. Sooner or later, the USD is going to be massively depreciated. The British economy might be in bad shape, but their Central Bank is not quite as reckless as the US Fed.

-t

Perhaps it is better for me to say that once the GBP is toast (say six months from now), they will have to adopt the EUR.

The USD is whole different can of worms.

Jawbone54 · Jan 5, 2009, 04:10 AM

Topics such as this just make me hate governments, economies, and money.

On my one-island government, we're not going to have money. We're also not going to have electricity, but I can deal with the trade-off.

turtle777 · Jan 5, 2009, 04:19 AM

Hey, if you want your own government to be scriptural based, you should buy gold:

You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.'
But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
I counsel you to buy [...] gold ...

Rev 3:17-18

-t

red rocket · Jan 5, 2009, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

But if there was a unique currency between Europe and North America...could our financial woes be solved or would this collapse the world economy?

B. No reason for the Eurozone to destroy its relative stability by tying itself any closer to the ruined US economy and its worthless currency.

mattyb · Jan 5, 2009, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Out financial woes be solved ? No, not by a new Mickey Mouse Fiat currency.
Only if that currency was backed by gold.

How often do you travel? Do you know that in most of the ex Soviet Republics, they prefer Euros to US Dollars? Did you know that hotels in South Korea prefer payment in Euros instead of US Dollars? Having a currency (even one that you classify as Mickey Mouse) backed by people who accept said currency, be it wooden planks, toe-nail clippings etc is far more important than having it backed by gold - or anything else for that matter.

Financial problems (in particular the credit squeeze) aren't solved by having the same currency either.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 5, 2009, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by mattyb

How often do you travel? Do you know that in most of the ex Soviet Republics, they prefer Euros to US Dollars? Did you know that hotels in South Korea prefer payment in Euros instead of US Dollars? Having a currency (even one that you classify as Mickey Mouse) backed by people who accept said currency

He was talking about a unified currency to replace Euro and dollar.

He did not call the Euro a mickey mouse currency.

Sijmen · Jan 7, 2009, 03:52 PM

How about no currency at all?

www.thevenusproject.com

turtle777 · Jan 7, 2009, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sijmen

How about no currency at all?

www.thevenusproject.com

Originally Posted by from above source

A Resource-Based Economy is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few.

Pff, that's unachievable and IMO, undesirable.

It either means I can have all and everything I want (-> not possible), or someone else decided what's good for me (-> fark that).

-t

olePigeon · Jan 7, 2009, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sijmen

How about no currency at all?

www.thevenusproject.com

Interesting, I didn't know they had websites in 1950.

mattyb · Jan 7, 2009, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sijmen

www.thevenusproject.com

Looks like a cult to me.

Sealobo · Jan 7, 2009, 05:12 PM

To back USD by gold? hm... impossible. The world simply can't take a massive depreciation of the US dollar, at least not within the next few decades.

Do you guys know how much assets, derivatives and clearing accounts are denominated in USD? Backing a currency by Gold is backward thinking and it doesn't make any sense.

The major support of a currency is the actual productivity denominated in the same currency. To trade, you must first produce; trade enough and you can ask to be paid in your own currency. The US has been printing money to foreign buyers for decades and the US economy had gotten so big to the point foreign countries started taking USD for their exports and subsequently buying US Treasuries as foreign exchange reserve.

Even China got paid in USD. But that is about to change. China is working on the RMB to make it the regional clearing currency.

There are only two material reasons for a currency to hold: a matching productivity, and a strong military presence. Now you might wonder why the US has gunships all over the rock.

Sealobo · Jan 7, 2009, 05:18 PM

By the way, my base currency is HKD which is pegged to the USD since the 80's. A depreciated USD can only be good for me cuz my hard assets will increase in value.

turtle777 · Jan 7, 2009, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sealobo

To back USD by gold? hm... impossible. The world simply can't take a massive depreciation of the US dollar, at least not within the next few decades.

Do you guys know how much assets, derivatives and clearing accounts are denominated in USD? Backing a currency by Gold is backward thinking and it doesn't make any sense.

The major support of a currency is the actual productivity denominated in the same currency. To trade, you must first produce; trade enough and you can ask to be paid in your own currency. The US has been printing money to foreign buyers for decades and the US economy had gotten so big to the point foreign countries started taking USD for their exports and subsequently buying US Treasuries as foreign exchange reserve.

Even China got paid in USD. But that is about to change. China is working on the RMB to make it the regional clearing currency.

There are only two material reasons for a currency to hold: a matching productivity, and a strong military presence. Now you might wonder why the US has gunships all over the rock.

I disagree with your conclusion.

Too big to fail is a myth. We've seen companies go bankrupt this year that would have been considered "too big to fail" just a year ago.

Re: productivity - there is no reasonable productivity improvements in the US.
The numbers put out there are based on fudged GDP and fudged CPI.

Re: strong military presence

Sorry, but the US can barely wage war in Iraq and Afghanistan, trying to safe the USD by military force is just a laughable idea.

-t

Sealobo · Jan 7, 2009, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I disagree with your conclusion.

Too big to fail is a myth. We've seen companies go bankrupt this year that would have been considered "too big to fail" just a year ago.

Re: productivity - there is no reasonable productivity improvements in the US.
The numbers put out there are based on fudged GDP and fudged CPI.

Re: strong military presence

Sorry, but the US can barely wage war in Iraq and Afghanistan, trying to safe the USD by military force is just a laughable idea.

-t

The US actually screwed up by letting Lehman fail and created a lot of problems not only for the US but the rest of the financial world. Subsequently, AIG saved, Citi saved, all the iBanks saved one way or the other, and the US automakers are being saved. Which top-tier company has actually gone Chapter 11 except Lehman?

RE: productivity: i didn't mean US' productivity has improved. in fact, the majority of the US people have been living beyond their means and the piled up debt has only come back to haunt them.

RE: strong military presence: Saudi is selling the US barrels and barrels of oil for their "state's protection", no? and they take USD. When the Japanese invaded and occupied numerous asia pacific countries in WWII, they too issued their only military money in foreign lands. But of course the concept would not be the same now in this relatively peaceful time, but a strong military is a sign of national strength.

Sealobo · Jan 7, 2009, 07:09 PM

Imagine the day when US exports her finest products (mind you, macs are not exactly made in the US; think Lockheed F-22 instead) to China and accept RMB as payment... now THAT'S something... LOL~ but that will probably never happen. O well after yr 2008, never say never; any **** is possible.

turtle777 · Jan 7, 2009, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Sealobo

Imagine the day when US exports her finest products (mind you, macs are not exactly made in the US; think Lockheed F-22 instead) to China and accept RMB as payment... now THAT'S something... LOL~ but that will probably never happen. O well after yr 2008, never say never; any **** is possible.

See, I think one day, China is going to wake up and say: F**k it, the US will NEVER be able to repay all their debt. Let's start cutting our losses.

This unwinding of the trade deficit will cause the USD to plummet.
Now, if this will take place over the next 2 years or 10 years, who knows. But fur sure, it will happen. The US is printing money, and daily, the real world value USD holdings in China (and other Asian countries for that matter), are melting away.

It's only a matter of time. And it will not take a lot to get this avalanche started. A few investors pulling out of Treasuries and buying up gold can start this whole mess within days.

-t

NobleMatt · 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Andy8

Give it six more months and the GBP will be toast.

for some reason in the pub last night we got onto the exchange rate from GBP to EUR and US atm. GBP is close to 1 to 1 at the moment where as it use to be 1 GBP to 1.9 EUR and i remember 7 years ago using it at 1 to 1.6, but i was told last night that the GBP was always designed to be 1 to 1 one day, its just benefited the UK for the last 10 years been better than that.

I havent heard any new roomers about the UK thinking of switching ~~back~~ to the EUR, i hope we dont, the pound is one of the few british things we have left in Briton!

i recently heard a comedian on TV say that the Euro is for countries that dont have enough important and famous people to put on the back of their currency and Briton will never adopt it because we have too many of the buggers

Spheric Harlot · Jan 8, 2009, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by crazyreaper

for some reason in the pub last night we got onto the exchange rate from GBP to EUR and US atm. GBP is close to 1 to 1 at the moment where as it use to be 1 GBP to 1.9 EUR and i remember 7 years ago using it at 1 to 1.6, but i was told last night that the GBP was always designed to be 1 to 1 one day, its just benefited the UK for the last 10 years been better than that.

I havent heard any new roomers about the UK thinking of switching back to the EUR, i hope we dont, the pound is one of the few british things we have left in Briton!

What the hell are you talking about "back to the Euro"?

The Euro wasn't implemented as common currency until 1999, with actual physical money arriving in 2002.

NobleMatt · Jan 10, 2009, 07:27 PM

typo, wasnt thinking straight, sorry

Andy8 · Jan 21, 2009, 05:54 AM

How is that GBP doing today then?