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Microsoft Photoshop CS2011
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voodoo
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:02 PM
 
Microsoft and Adobe Chiefs Meet to Discuss Apple - NYTimes.com

There are these rumors of a Microsoft acquisition of Adobe going around and I simply love the idea! It makes sense, sure - but more than that, it's amusing.

Adobe doesn't have a future, so it might as well be picked up by MS. Microsoft Photoshop does sound a bit odd now, but so did Mac Book Pro.

Seeing as MS supports its flagship products on the Mac and Adobe's products are bloated and Microsoft-y already, this looks like a match made in heaven. ... sure this is all about Flash, so I suppose MS could well just spin off the creative apps, but that wouldn't be nearly as amusing.

The creative apps are just orphans now, since Adobe bought Macromedia because of Flash and orphaned its creative apps, a MS acquisition of Adobe would likely result in the same.
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olePigeon
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:04 PM
 
I'd rather Apple buy Adobe, streamline it, then rename it Photo Studio Pro. They could then officially kill Flash.

If Microsoft buys Adobe, everything will be Silverlight.
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iMOTOR
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:18 PM
 
Nooooooooooooo!
     
voodoo  (op)
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
I'd rather Apple buy Adobe, streamline it, then rename it Photo Studio Pro. They could then officially kill Flash.

If Microsoft buys Adobe, everything will be Silverlight.
Silverlight or Flash, does it matter? Really?

Either way, I'd prefer Apple to buy the design apps from Adobe, let it die or merge with MS - I can't differentiate between Adobe and MS these days anyway. Actually I wouldn't like it if Apple got any Adobe parts, seeing as Apple is on some drug-enhanced journey into iOS-land these days and leaves the Mac development on autopilot.

Though seeing how well MS handles the Mac apps, perhaps this merger of Adobe and MS would be a good thing!
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Andy8
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:51 PM
 
The horror, the horror.
     
boy8cookie
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
Though seeing how well MS handles the Mac apps, perhaps this merger of Adobe and MS would be a good thing!
This be sarcasm, eh?
     
voodoo  (op)
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Oct 7, 2010, 08:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
This be sarcasm, eh?
Not really, because we're talking about Adobe here - the only major software house that makes worse Mac apps than Microsoft.

And the bloat! Good gods! Just installing Illustrator (and nothing else) creates 4 folders in the Applications folder - one for the app and three for complete garbage such as Adobe Bridge.

I wish it was sarcasm. But Adobe sucks in ways I never though possible outside MS.

(besides, just look at Windows 7, it's pretty damn good!)
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imitchellg5
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Oct 7, 2010, 09:52 PM
 
I really doubt Microsoft would buy all of Adobe. I could see them acquiring (and they probably have in the past) certain Adobe rights or technologies.
     
Brien
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Oct 7, 2010, 09:55 PM
 
I used to be in favor of Apple buying Adobe, but at this rate, I'd rather they bought Pixelmator. I love Photoshop and Illustrator, but they're so bloated and have so much legacy code that it'd be the same amount of work (maybe less, actually) to just write something else from the ground up. Buying Pixelmator gives them a great base to build off.
     
imitchellg5
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Oct 7, 2010, 10:00 PM
 
I think there are a lot of people who sort of expect Apple to buy Pixelmator, maybe it was even a rumour going around. It does make some degree of sense.
     
Brien
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Oct 7, 2010, 10:07 PM
 
Well, MS buying Adobe would certainly put the pressure on them to do so.
     
imitchellg5
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Oct 7, 2010, 10:22 PM
 
Sure, but Pixelmator would already fit in perfectly with iPhoto, and even into the mobile space.
     
Eyenigma
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Oct 8, 2010, 01:16 AM
 
In all seriousness, I don't see the real upside for MSFT. I mean sure there are some interesting technologies like Flash which I'm sure MSFT would want in their new mobile OS. Or perhaps the PDF patents and plug-ins. But I don't get what buying the company could do that working in synergy couldn't.

I cringe at the thought. Create Suite apps for the Mac would be bastardized *(at best) beyond what they are now. Adobe for the most part simply ports the CS stuff to Mac anyway. Their real gravy train is the PC market. Not good, ... not good at all.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 8, 2010, 02:27 AM
 
They'd leverage Flash to embrace and suffocate/replace it with Silverlight.

Make the mobile version exclusive to Windows Phone, and try to leverage the fading star of Flash dominance to muscle their way back into the mobile market. Two years too late.

Just like Flash.
     
Laminar
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Oct 8, 2010, 09:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
a rumour
     
olePigeon
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Oct 8, 2010, 11:20 AM
 
Not to mention PostScript would be replaced with XPS.
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imitchellg5
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Oct 8, 2010, 06:51 PM
 
Do you have a problem, Laminar?
     
Lateralus
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:28 PM
 
Probably something to do with your misspelling of rumor.
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imitchellg5
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:43 PM
 
Oh. I've been applying for a lot of schools and scholarships overseas and the English has to be UK version. It gets in my head. However, I don't think that UK English is wrong, it's probably actually more correct.
     
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:44 PM
 
Upside: Acrobat. Acrobat would do so much better with MS - they'd integrate it in the OS, in Office, in their server products. It's insecure and broken right now, and there's noone more experienced with code like that than MS (really. Not kidding. They've done some great things considering that qulity of the code they started with). Flash would also benefit from that.

Neutral: CS. I think that is will be mostly neutral actually. Adobe already treats the Mac as an also-ran, trying to run everything inside their own bastard shell of Fireworks and Flash and Shockwave and AIR and I don't even remember the names anymore. This is very close to what MS does with MS Office - and the Office group at MS develops their own interface elements even when running under Windows (that ribbon thing? Yes, it looks the same in Win 7 as it does in Office 2007+. It isn't, though - the Windows team reimplemented the same metaphor with different code. MS has an NIH syndrome that even nineties Apple would be embarassed of). MS can't kill the Mac version without having Judge Konsonant-Kollection down on them like a ton of bricks - they're still under special supervision, remember.

Negative: Mobile development, HTML, and anything that is currently developing. All Adobe tools will produce code that works best in IE, and they'll push Flash all over the place. The devlopment tools, whatever they will be called, will prodcue .NET code for Win Mobile and barely-works Flash for everyone else. This can be a total disaster.

I don't think they'll do it, though. Many Adobe CS customers will run screaming for the woods, MS is notiously terrible at integrating startups so Adobe developers will run, there is bound to be antitrust concerns, and oh yeah, Jobs will never let that happen and he has more money than Ballmer these days.

What I'd really like is to reverse that godforsaken Macromedia merger and kick Flash and Fireworks and all that garbage out.
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Lateralus
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
...it's probably actually more correct.
More correct? How?

All of the *our words have the same problem - an old form that no longer matches the modern pronunciation.
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imitchellg5
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Oct 8, 2010, 08:06 PM
 
Maybe not the "our" words, but some other words such as "organise" that use the hard "ess" instead of the soft "zzz" sound, for example.
     
tooki
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Oct 9, 2010, 04:12 AM
 
Oisín, where are you?

<linguist>No one kind of modern English is more or less correct than any other. Standard American English tends to hold on to more historical (older) forms of words and pronunciation than British English, which changed more over the intervening 400 years. Also, as Lateralus alluded to, English has had several major shifts in pronunciation over the centuries, but any words written before a pronunciation change didn't get re-spelled. Plus English has had multiple spells of major influx of words from French (and minor influx from other languages) at various times before and after specific pronunciation changes, further messing up spelling. Spelling in English has never been fully standardized, since English does not have any body with authoritative power over the language (unlike many other languages). </linguist>

Oisín? Back me up here, buddy!
     
tooki
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Oct 9, 2010, 04:15 AM
 
On the topic of Adobe-MS: I'd support MS buying Adobe if Apple doesn't. MS treats its customers better than Adobe.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 9, 2010, 06:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by tooki View Post
Oisín, where are you?

<linguist>No one kind of modern English is more or less correct than any other. Standard American English tends to hold on to more historical (older) forms of words and pronunciation than British English, which changed more over the intervening 400 years. Also, as Lateralus alluded to, English has had several major shifts in pronunciation over the centuries, but any words written before a pronunciation change didn't get re-spelled. Plus English has had multiple spells of major influx of words from French (and minor influx from other languages) at various times before and after specific pronunciation changes, further messing up spelling. Spelling in English has never been fully standardized, since English does not have any body with authoritative power over the language (unlike many other languages). </linguist>

Oisín? Back me up here, buddy!
This is correct, AFAIK.

The quick summary:

English, whichever version, is a horrible, bastardiz/sed mess. (Also AFAIK, "bastardized" cannot correctly be spelled/spelt with an "s")
     
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Oct 9, 2010, 01:54 PM
 
I think voodoo is in favor of MS acquiring Adobe just so Quark would have a tiny glimmer of hope for a comeback.
     
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Oct 9, 2010, 04:24 PM
 
Resultant company should be named Microbe in honor of MS & Adobe security track record.
     
Oisín
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Oct 9, 2010, 04:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki View Post
Oisín, where are you?

<linguist>No one kind of modern English is more or less correct than any other. Standard American English tends to hold on to more historical (older) forms of words and pronunciation than British English, which changed more over the intervening 400 years. Also, as Lateralus alluded to, English has had several major shifts in pronunciation over the centuries, but any words written before a pronunciation change didn't get re-spelled. Plus English has had multiple spells of major influx of words from French (and minor influx from other languages) at various times before and after specific pronunciation changes, further messing up spelling. Spelling in English has never been fully standardized, since English does not have any body with authoritative power over the language (unlike many other languages). </linguist>

Oisín? Back me up here, buddy!
Full backup, present!

(SH: No, ‘bastardiz/se’ can be spelt either way. All -ize words can be spelled -ise as well, though there are some -ise words that can’t be spelt -ize, namely if they’re derived from nouns that end in an s (like ‘televise’ or ‘advertise’, which is a back-formation from ‘advertisement’); or if they contain endings from verbs that contain an s, like -mise or -prise, from French.)

Maybe not the "our" words, but some other words such as "organise" that use the hard "ess" instead of the soft "zzz" sound, for example.
But you both pronounce the words with the ‘soft’ (= voiced) z sound, as would be expected from both spellings.



On topic …

Adobe are pricks. They make bloated software that’s getting increasingly bloateder, and their idea of customer support and treatment would make Orwell proud.

And yet, a purchase by Microsoft makes me nervous, for the exact reasons that P mentions. I can live with bloated apps, even if they’re annoying. I can live with ‘ribbons’ and such monstrosities, even if they’re frustratingly annoying. But the prospect of all the progress that’s been made by web standards proponents and activists over the past decade being more or less swiped off the face of the earth by Microsoft churning out crap code not only from the Office package and Outlook, but also from an entire creativity suite.
     
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Oct 12, 2010, 11:59 PM
 
I can't imagine this meeting regulatory approval... then again I couldn't imagine them being able to buy Macromedia either. Apple would do well to buy them just for the patent portfolio and then can all the employees.

In actual fact Apple would be smarter to treat them like they do Filemaker. Allow Adobe to keep on living, pretty well like they do, only stop bitching about having flash on everything, and instead optimize the hell out of it.

Fact is a lot of Adobe's technology isn't so bad. They just don't follow the HIG (which would make them fit in fine at Apple) and they often suffer from wanting to push out new features without having really gotten things working.

If this did happen between Microsoft and Adobe, I'm sure Apple would immediately buy Pixelmator and pump a gazillion dollars into it. That is of course if Apple still cares about selling any Mac Pros... which I don't know if they really do. With the way Final Cut Pro and the rest of the pro software has been languishing it really seems as if Apple's focus has moved away from the pro market. To be honest it looks like it's moved away from enabling people to create anything more than $1 apps.
     
P
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Oct 13, 2010, 04:20 AM
 
Adobe could find a good home with Apple. Apple could return them to using sane interfaces, stop pushing Flash all over the world and keep making money at what they do best - make design tools.
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Oct 13, 2010, 05:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
That is of course if Apple still cares about selling any Mac Pros... which I don't know if they really do. With the way Final Cut Pro and the rest of the pro software has been languishing it really seems as if Apple's focus has moved away from the pro market. To be honest it looks like it's moved away from enabling people to create anything more than $1 apps.
Is that what is happening with the 'Pro' software? I'm genuinely interested since I know nothing about that market.
     
starman
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Oct 13, 2010, 07:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
(besides, just look at Windows 7, it's pretty damn good!)
Still can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

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Wiskedjak
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Oct 13, 2010, 08:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I think there are a lot of people who sort of expect Apple to buy Pixelmator, maybe it was even a rumour going around. It does make some degree of sense.
I hope Apple purchases nobody ... least of all Pixelmator. I'd hate to see the likes of Pixelmator get Appled into a $500+ product.
     
Wiskedjak
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Oct 13, 2010, 08:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
More correct? How?

All of the *our words have the same problem - an old form that no longer matches the modern pronunciation.
If yor conserned abowt werd spellings maching modern pronunsiashun ...
     
voodoo  (op)
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Oct 13, 2010, 08:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
I think voodoo is in favor of MS acquiring Adobe just so Quark would have a tiny glimmer of hope for a comeback.
I wish! Though I rather suspect that a Microsoft pushed InDesign wouldn't actually promote healthy competition. That's not the MS we all know and love.

@starman sarcasm is a delicate thing, best not to be explained
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Oct 13, 2010, 09:06 AM
 
If this is all rumor, or rumour, whichever it may be, then we just wasted valuable internets.
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voodoo  (op)
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Oct 13, 2010, 09:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
If this is all rumor, or rumour, whichever it may be, then we just wasted valuable internets.
This is all rumors.
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Oct 13, 2010, 09:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
If this is all rumor, or rumour, whichever it may be, then we just wasted valuable internets.
Were you saving them for something more worthwhile?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
osiris
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Oct 13, 2010, 09:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Were you saving them for something more worthwhile?
An internet is a terrible thing to waste. Perhaps you use them up all nilly willy, but I, sir, prefer to conserve them for future generations.
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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 13, 2010, 09:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
In actual fact Apple would be smarter to treat them like they do Filemaker. Allow Adobe to keep on living, pretty well like they do, only stop bitching about having flash on everything, and instead optimize the hell out of it.
IIRC, FileMaker started out in-house, at Claris.

The difference between Filemaker and Adobe is that you don't necessarily expect your own children to **** you over any chance they get.

Adobe will.

Originally Posted by Salty View Post
the rest of the pro software has been languishing it really seems as if Apple's focus has moved away from the pro market. To be honest it looks like it's moved away from enabling people to create anything more than $1 apps.
Logic has not been languishing. 9 has been seeing *almost* as many updates as Logic 7 and 8 together (not quite, but Logic 8 had to .0.x updates, while 9 is now at 9.1.1.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 13, 2010, 09:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
An internet is a terrible thing to waste. Perhaps you use them up all nilly willy, but I, sir, prefer to conserve them for future generations.
O(u)r basement is full of tubes.
     
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Oct 13, 2010, 10:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
This is very close to what MS does with MS Office - and the Office group at MS develops their own interface elements even when running under Windows (that ribbon thing? Yes, it looks the same in Win 7 as it does in Office 2007+. It isn't, though - the Windows team reimplemented the same metaphor with different code. MS has an NIH syndrome that even nineties Apple would be embarassed of).
Apparently Office doesn't use either platform's text handling APIs. Not in Windows or Mac OS. They claim that they write a custom one for both in order to "negate" the differences in how text is rendered/laid out between Windows and Mac OS.
     
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Oct 13, 2010, 04:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
IIRC, FileMaker started out in-house, at Claris.
No, but it was in Claris for a LONG time. Claris bought it in the mid-eighties some time - that's why it wasn't called "MacFile" or whatever.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Oct 14, 2010, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I hope Apple purchases nobody ... least of all Pixelmator. I'd hate to see the likes of Pixelmator get Appled into a $500+ product.
Ummm… what?!? I don't know of any case where Apple increased the price of a software product it bought. Let's look at some examples:

WebObjects: originally $10,000, now free to develop or just $499 for Mac OS X Server to deploy
Logic Pro: originally $1000 or more, now $499
Final Cut Pro: originally $999, now you get the entire Final Cut Studio for around that
iTunes: originally something like $60 as SoundJam, now free

If anything, Apple could afford to buy Pixelmator and give it away, but I don't think it fits into what most people do. iPhoto can easily be enhanced with that.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 14, 2010, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki View Post
Ummm… what?!? I don't know of any case where Apple increased the price of a software product it bought. Let's look at some examples:

Logic Pro: originally $1000 or more, now $499
Logic Platinum ALONE was $1000. If you add all the plug-ins that were suddenly included with Logic Pro 6 (the first with the "Pro" designation), most of which were sold separately until then, you end up with about $5000. (The Space Designer reverb alone was €600 until it was rolled into the Logic Pro bundle with v. 6.)

For the Logic Studio release, which included Logic Pro v. 8, they bundled all five Jam Packs, each of which cost $100 on its own, AND threw in WaveBurner, Compressor, and Soundtrack Pro with its loops and soundbed material, AND cut the price to $500.

That's just completely insane, but it's sold a LOT of Macs.


Originally Posted by tooki View Post
Final Cut Pro: originally $999, now you get the entire Final Cut Studio for around that
IIRC, Apple sold it for $2000 originally.
     
tooki
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Oct 14, 2010, 05:46 PM
 
     
Salty
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Oct 14, 2010, 10:48 PM
 
Thing is though, Apple's pretty well out of the Pro software biz. They're siphoning engineers off the pro software products and OS teams to push iOS forward. What I don't get is why they just hire more developers! Sure iOS et al might make them more money, but it's not like the Pro software products were costing them money, not to mention the fact that having really good first party software made the platform look good. There were certain things you could ONLY do on a Mac.
Even now with the iOS devices, most of the killer apps could jump ship to another platform and when enough of them have done that, aside from slick hardware why stick with the company charging 299 for the 32 gig phone, when the other guy is charging 199?
     
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Oct 15, 2010, 01:50 AM
 
1. I don't know about Final Cut, but Logic is still developed by the same team, here in Rellingen near Hamburg.

2. The "only on the Mac" thing hasn't been the case for over ten years. What do you propose they do? Simply invent a new class of software? Nothing simpler, right? I'm sure they'd love to hear your suggestions.

3. When did throwing more programmers at a problem EVER improve things? Microsoft? Small, fast-moving teams are PRECISELY why Apple works so well.
( Last edited by Spheric Harlot; Oct 15, 2010 at 01:57 AM. )
     
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Oct 15, 2010, 02:45 AM
 
Well, neither WebObjects or Shake are exactly industry standards anymore, but certainly could have been if Apple had given them the chance.

Instead, we get infrequent pro app updates, and Apple has, especially with FCP/Logic, given the competition time to catch up. Vegas Pro and Premiere Pro have gotten a LOT closer.

Plus there's the fact Apple practically ceded the compositing market to Nuke.
     
tooki
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Oct 15, 2010, 01:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
What I don't get is why they just hire more developers!
For the love of god, read The Mythical Man-Month.

Adding more developers doesn't make things go faster, and adding bad developers just f••ks everything up that was going OK. This is the problem the software industry is struggling with: a glut of programmers looking for work, but no programmers worth hiring among them!
     
 
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