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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > iPhone 4 (Official Thread)

iPhone 4 (Official Thread) (Page 13)
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Brien
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Jul 23, 2010, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
The white iPhone 4 is delayed yet again, until the end of the year. I'm tired of waiting.
Same here. Wish I had a crystal ball, I'd have ordered one last month. Oh well. Maybe (if) the white iPhone comes out I'll see if I can sell the black one for enough to buy the white at the non-upgrade price.

Seems that Apple is only offering black or clear cases for the rebate program as well. Not a whole lot of choice. Again, oh well.

As for the hardware revision: if Apple silently upgrades the hardware, they'd have a massive lawsuit on their hands unless they offer a trade-in program.
     
turtle777
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Jul 23, 2010, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
As for the hardware revision: if Apple silently upgrades the hardware, they'd have a massive lawsuit on their hands unless they offer a trade-in program.
Huh ? Care to explain why ? On what legal grounds ?

-t
     
imitchellg5
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Jul 23, 2010, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
Same here. Wish I had a crystal ball, I'd have ordered one last month. Oh well. Maybe (if) the white iPhone comes out I'll see if I can sell the black one for enough to buy the white at the non-upgrade price.

Seems that Apple is only offering black or clear cases for the rebate program as well. Not a whole lot of choice. Again, oh well.

As for the hardware revision: if Apple silently upgrades the hardware, they'd have a massive lawsuit on their hands unless they offer a trade-in program.
The smartphone world is full of annoyances right now. I figured I'd go get the HTC Incredible and try out Android for 30 days and then make my decision, but alas. Verizon is sold out of those too.
     
Brien
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Jul 23, 2010, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Huh ? Care to explain why ? On what legal grounds ?

-t
A hardware change would be a tacit admission of guilt/fault with the device, and legal or not (pretty sure it is, though) there would be several lawsuits about 'antenna-gate'.

Either way, I've been hearing that Apple is telling third-party retailers to remove the white SKUs from their systems so I'm honestly thinking Apple is going to wait for this whole white iPhone issue to blow over, then silently cancel it. All of the Chinese newspapers are saying that making these white iPhone parts to Apple's standards just isn't going to happen.
     
jokell82
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Jul 23, 2010, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
A hardware change would be a tacit admission of guilt/fault with the device, and legal or not (pretty sure it is, though) there would be several lawsuits about 'antenna-gate'.
[citation needed]

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imitchellg5
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Jul 23, 2010, 04:08 PM
 
What Brien is basically saying is that it opens the door to an easy-kill class-action.
     
Brien
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Jul 23, 2010, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
[citation needed]
I'm not a lawyer.
     
turtle777
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Jul 23, 2010, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
A hardware change would be a tacit admission of guilt/fault with the device, and legal or not (pretty sure it is, though) there would be several lawsuits about 'antenna-gate'.
I'm not buying it.

Same could be said about giving out free bumpers. That also could be interpreted as an admission of guilt.

Apple IS going to fix this. The only question is are they going to do it in rev a, or rev b.

-t
     
Brien
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Jul 23, 2010, 06:05 PM
 
Okay then, Apple can update the hardware and not get sued. Plan B. I don't care, but if they do 'fix' the issue I'd better be able to get a fixed unit. Coverage here in OC isn't that great.
     
amazing
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Jul 24, 2010, 10:30 AM
 
Bottom line is that it would be yet another PR nightmare is Apple comes out with a "fixed" iPhone 4 before the normal refresh cycle--so don't expect a "fixed" white iPhone 4.

Apple's only just survived (barely?) the current PR nightmare.
     
ort888
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Jul 24, 2010, 11:09 AM
 
If by just survived you mean they sold 3 million phones, then yeah, they are squeaking by.

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amazing
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Jul 24, 2010, 11:21 AM
 
should've left out the "barely".

Without the case giveaway, Apple faced pretty credible lawsuits about the antenna. With the case giveaway, those lawsuits are pretty crippled.
     
imitchellg5
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Jul 24, 2010, 06:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
Bottom line is that it would be yet another PR nightmare is Apple comes out with a "fixed" iPhone 4 before the normal refresh cycle--so don't expect a "fixed" white iPhone 4.

Apple's only just survived (barely?) the current PR nightmare.
It wouldn't be a PR nightmare at all if they could apply the fix to current iPhone 4s.
     
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Jul 24, 2010, 06:52 PM
 
I have virtually ZERO signal issue!
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amazing
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Jul 24, 2010, 08:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
It wouldn't be a PR nightmare at all if they could apply the fix to current iPhone 4s.
Apple's fix for the iPhone 4 is free cases. That's most likely the only "fix" Apple will offer. Any additional fix would be too much admission of guilt.

Right now Apple is saying "we're not guilty of anything: look at how all these other smartphones do exactly the same thing. Even though we have nothing to be ashamed of or guilty about, out of the goodness of our hearts, we're gonna give you a free case."
     
imitchellg5
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Jul 24, 2010, 10:04 PM
 
What? "Too much admission of guilt?" Besides having a whole press conference for the entire world to see? Apple isn't saying they aren't guilty of anything, they're just trying to pass it off to the market, but Apple HAS said that they still feel badly about it and want every single customer to be happy.
     
amazing
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Jul 24, 2010, 10:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
What? "Too much admission of guilt?" Besides having a whole press conference for the entire world to see? Apple isn't saying they aren't guilty of anything, they're just trying to pass it off to the market, but Apple HAS said that they still feel badly about it and want every single customer to be happy.
Absolutely correct. Apple has no guilt whatsoever.

That's why they're so busy trashing every other smartphone competitor with videos of the assorted malefactors losing signal bars.

No guilt = spreading the guilt around. "How can we be guilty when all the world is doing it?"
     
imitchellg5
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Jul 24, 2010, 11:04 PM
 
You misread (well, I misphrased). I'm saying that Apple's already gone pretty far to admit guilt, especially in this industry. I don't think a hardware fix that could be applied to all iPhone 4s would be admitting even more guilt. If you're gonna make a press conference, albeit a biased one, I think that's pretty unusual for Apple. Normally Apple's line is basically "we're working on it."
     
Wiskedjak
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Jul 24, 2010, 11:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Normally Apple's line is basically "we're working on it."
Or, to ignore the issue publicly until they have a fix to release or until it becomes too widespread that deleting Apple Discussion posts no longer serves to cover the issue up (at which point, if they don't have a fix, they resort to recall).
     
AKcrab
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Jul 24, 2010, 11:59 PM
 
Have all you folks having antenna issues gone ahead and returned your phones?
     
stevesnj
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Jul 25, 2010, 12:54 AM
 
Changing the iPhone to be 'better' is not illegal. Changing the 'hardware' in the iPhone 4 to better it's product for the consumer is no admission of guilt. If a product is 'improved upon' the owner of a previous model, even of the same name, admits no guilt or will the company be liable for improving on it's design. For example, you buy a 2009 Honda witch includes a lot of safety features except side airbags and you wanted side airbags. The 2010 model Honda comes with side airbags but you get in an accident (in your 2009 Honda) where side airbags would of reduced your injuries. You wouldn't sue Honda would you? Honda knows that side airbags would reduce injuries but they didn't engineer that 2009 Honda with them. The product was improved upon, tough shit. Same goes for the iPhone 4. If they improve upon it no liable suit can be filed.
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amazing
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Jul 25, 2010, 12:57 AM
 
what's to return? Put it in a case, and it's best in its class, hands down.

Some people will even argue that it's best in its class even without a case, provided you hold it right...except that "holding it right" feels most unnatural.

Which can't hide the fact that Apple should most definitely be ashamed of that one spot on the antenna band: that's very bad design, pure and simple.
     
SSharon
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Jul 25, 2010, 01:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by stevesnj View Post
For example, you buy a 2009 Honda witch includes a lot of safety features except side airbags and you wanted side airbags. The 2010 model Honda comes with side airbags but you get in an accident (in your 2009 Honda) where side airbags would of reduced your injuries. You wouldn't sue Honda would you? Honda knows that side airbags would reduce injuries but they didn't engineer that 2009 Honda with them. The product was improved upon, tough shit. Same goes for the iPhone 4. If they improve upon it no liable suit can be filed.
Just to be clear, there is a huge difference between a safety improvement and what Apple is potentially doing here. In some states products liability suits specifically cannot be brought based on a claim of changes to include new safety features, like the addition of airbags. This is because we want to encourage companies to improve the safety of their products without fear of getting sued. Apple is (or might be) fixing a "defective" product that has nothing to do with safety.

IAAL, but I'm not giving legal advice here, just some thoughts off the top of my head.
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amazing
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Jul 25, 2010, 02:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by SSharon View Post
Just to be clear, there is a huge difference between a safety improvement and what Apple is potentially doing here. In some states products liability suits specifically cannot be brought based on a claim of changes to include new safety features, like the addition of airbags. This is because we want to encourage companies to improve the safety of their products without fear of getting sued. Apple is (or might be) fixing a "defective" product that has nothing to do with safety.

IAAL, but I'm not giving legal advice here, just some thoughts off the top of my head.
Clear and concise!
     
turtle777
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Jul 25, 2010, 02:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by SSharon View Post
Just to be clear, there is a huge difference between a safety improvement and what Apple is potentially doing here. In some states products liability suits specifically cannot be brought based on a claim of changes to include new safety features, like the addition of airbags. This is because we want to encourage companies to improve the safety of their products without fear of getting sued. Apple is (or might be) fixing a "defective" product that has nothing to do with safety.
IMO, the same argument can be made for the iPhone 4.

Generally, the iPhone 4's radio and antenna is much better than the 3Gs'.

To claim that the iPhone 4 is a completely defective product would mean that the previous generations were even more defective.

-t
     
ajprice
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Jul 25, 2010, 06:04 AM
 
I just wonder why anyone with a £600 handheld thing made of metal and glass wouldn't put it in a case?!?!

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 25, 2010, 06:45 AM
 
Because an awful lot of work went into making it feel really really nice WITHOUT a case.

Putting it in a case makes all the work put into the exterior of the device irrelevant.

I hate iPod/iPhone cases for that reason.

What's the point in buying a perfectly balanced design if you're gonna be looking at/holding a badonka-donk butt-fugly plastic box all the time anyway?
     
ghporter
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Jul 25, 2010, 09:59 AM
 
I have a case on my 3Gs. Not because I want to hide the shape, but because the wonderfully smooth phone body is a bit difficult for me to grasp firmly-it slips out of my fingers and that worries me. So I got an iFrogz case, which fits the form very well, adds a touch of color, and is easier for me to hold onto.

I like the shape, the lines, and the feel of my phone, but a little added color and texture on the outside helps me use it more comfortably.

If/when I get an iPhone 4, I'll put it in a very slim, soft case like the iFrogz case for the same reason. But again, this is a preference thing. It shouldn't NEED a case, and I think there's a big problem when an appreciable number of these phones (even if it is still only a small fraction of all of them) do need something on the outside for them to work properly.

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SSharon
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Jul 25, 2010, 11:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
I just wonder why anyone with a £600 handheld thing made of metal and glass wouldn't put it in a case?!?!
I'm typically not a careless person and so I never put a case on my original iPhone (although it does have a screen protector super glued on). After three years it has two tiny nicks on the back, one from my wife dropping it and the other from my brother in law dropping it.

I'm using the iPhone 4 naked because even a screen protector seems unnecessary. It's just a cell phone. How many people do you know with expensive watches that put a screen protector on the face?
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Oisín
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Jul 25, 2010, 01:20 PM
 
Because an awful lot of work went into making it feel really really nice WITHOUT a case.
I haven’t held an iPhone 4 yet, but for the previous generations, that work doesn’t seem to have paid off very well for me. I find caseless iPhones extremely difficult to hold without cases. They slip and slide, and I would no doubt have dropped mine at least a dozen time without the case.

In other words: hands are different, YMMV.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 25, 2010, 02:00 PM
 
They are, indeed.

All my iPods and my iPhone are caseless - merely an Invisible Shield, if anything.
     
glideslope
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Jul 25, 2010, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
Same here. Wish I had a crystal ball, I'd have ordered one last month. Oh well. Maybe (if) the white iPhone comes out I'll see if I can sell the black one for enough to buy the white at the non-upgrade price.

Seems that Apple is only offering black or clear cases for the rebate program as well. Not a whole lot of choice. Again, oh well.

As for the hardware revision: if Apple silently upgrades the hardware, they'd have a massive lawsuit on their hands unless they offer a trade-in program.
There would be no lawsuits.

1: Apple has clearly stated if you have one and don't like it you receive a full refund and no restocking fees. Period.
2: Apple has clearly stated that you can have a free case to mask the issue if you choose to keep the phone. Period.

You know what the phone currently is. If you purchase it, and keep it, you are making a binding decision to accept it for what it is.

Steve never denied a change to the antenna design in the press conference. He stated " I am not sure what the future will be". This was as of that minute of that day.

IMO, there will be some type of internal modification that will be in place by Oct . Could be very simple. More a modification than a complete redesign. I'll even go out on a limb and say the antenna stays on the outside for the iPhone 4s.
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SSharon
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Jul 25, 2010, 09:10 PM
 
On an unrelated note, has anyone noticed that you can't record video if you are on a phone call, but you can still take pictures?
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Bearsfan34
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Jul 25, 2010, 11:59 PM
 
Not a single antenna / call / data issue with the two iPhone 4s in our house.

Where I work there are at least 8 people with the new iPhone 4. Out of all of 'em, just ONE had an issue...and it had nothing to do with the Death Grip. It was a faulty unit. Dropped calls, excessive proximity sensor issues, and the like. Even after 2 restores.

He exchanged that iPhone 4, no questions asked. His new model is like the rest of us.

Like Jobs pointed out, less than 1% of users are having literal issues, or at least that's who's calling AppleCare. This whole thing is overblown IMHO. I think the way Apple handled PR as a result of this though has been overall awful. That said, for the meaningless & small sample of 10+ iPhone 4 owners around me, only 1 issue that was taken care of by Apple.
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The Godfather
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Jul 26, 2010, 01:07 AM
 
I would be disappointed if Apple keeps manufacturing the flawed antenna iPhone for a day longer than it needs to. Either a silent hardware revision or a publicized revision would prevent a sore with the smartphone market looking to upgrade their 3GS, hopefully not to an Android.

Stopping production altogether wouldn't be an option, though, as 3GS owners are seeing their cellphone contracts expire in alarming rates.

You don't think that Google's marketing department isn't preparing Apple-Vista-style ads to not "let this disaster go to waste"?
     
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Jul 26, 2010, 08:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
I would be disappointed if Apple keeps manufacturing the flawed antenna iPhone for a day longer than it needs to. Either a silent hardware revision or a publicized revision would prevent a sore with the smartphone market looking to upgrade their 3GS, hopefully not to an Android.
Apple can be rather stubborn.

Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
You don't think that Google's marketing department isn't preparing Apple-Vista-style ads to not "let this disaster go to waste"?
I doubt they're doing any such thing. Not all companies are as "attacky" in their marketing strategies.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jul 26, 2010, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
I would be disappointed if Apple keeps manufacturing the flawed antenna iPhone for a day longer than it needs to. Either a silent hardware revision or a publicized revision would prevent a sore with the smartphone market looking to upgrade their 3GS, hopefully not to an Android.
Apple can be rather stubborn.

Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
You don't think that Google's marketing department isn't preparing Apple-Vista-style ads to not "let this disaster go to waste"?
I doubt they're doing any such thing. Not all companies are as "attacky" in their marketing strategies.
     
-Q-
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Jul 26, 2010, 07:42 PM
 
Just got my shipment notice for the free Bumper. Looks to arrive by 8/3.
     
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Jul 26, 2010, 07:50 PM
 
hmm. I signed up for mine the day it came out...nothing yet.
     
placebo1969
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Jul 27, 2010, 12:22 AM
 
I purchased my Bumper from the Apple Store online (had an old gift card) and got it about a week after I got my iPhone. I just got an email from Apple that they will be mailing me a new gift card for the full amount (tax and shipping), but it's not due for delivery until September!

I like the relative unobtrusiveness about the Bumper. It seems to have very tight tolerances. But that is a bit of an issue, because older dock connectors that use the clip don't fit. The newer ones with the friction fit do fit. Of course the newer cables come with the phone, but those older cables won't work, which can be a pain.
     
ajprice
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Jul 27, 2010, 09:01 AM
 



It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 27, 2010, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by SSharon View Post
On an unrelated note, has anyone noticed that you can't record video if you are on a phone call, but you can still take pictures?
video includes audio, which means killing whatever internal audio stream is running.

That includes phone calls.
     
SSharon
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Jul 27, 2010, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
video includes audio, which means killing whatever internal audio stream is running.

That includes phone calls.
Good point! I never thought of it that way despite being accustomed to my music fading out when a call arrives.

I tried opening the voice memos app while listening to music and it stopped me as well. I guess there is no hope of recording calls or your own ringtones anytime soon.
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-Q-
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Jul 27, 2010, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by SSharon View Post
I tried opening the voice memos app while listening to music and it stopped me as well. I guess there is no hope of recording calls or your own ringtones anytime soon.
Recording calls could get you (and Apple) in a mess of legal trouble. I can see why they'd prevent that. A lot more trouble than it's worth.

As for ringtones, why would you want to record them from music on your phone? You can just edit/create them on your mac, export them as an .m4a file and then change the extension to .m4r.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 27, 2010, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by -Q- View Post
As for ringtones, why would you want to record them from music on your phone? You can just edit/create them on your mac using GarageBand, export them as an .m4a file and then change the extension to iTunes directly as .m4r.
Fixed.

I'm always amazed at how many people don't know this.

GarageBand even has a "Ringtone" preset template!
     
SSharon
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Jul 27, 2010, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Fixed.

I'm always amazed at how many people don't know this.

GarageBand even has a "Ringtone" preset template!
I use garageband to mac ringtones from my mac, but not everyone has a mac nor the knowledge (limited as it may be) to use garageband.

Aren't there addons to skype that allow calls to be recorded? They don't seem particularly worried about the legal aspects of it. Simple programming could solve this problem anyway. Your theory does make sense though so I'm just arguing with the policy not with your explanation.
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Stogieman
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Jul 27, 2010, 07:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Fixed.

I'm always amazed at how many people don't know this.

GarageBand even has a "Ringtone" preset template!
Or you can just go to audiko.net. That's what I do. That place has everything. I'm currently rocking the whistle from the Old Spice commericals as my ringtone.

edit: Make sure to click on the little bell next to the Google Search button to change the search bar from Google Search to Audiko search.

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SSharon
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Jul 27, 2010, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
Or you can just go to audiko.net. That's what I do. That place has everything. I'm currently rocking the whistle from the Old Spice commericals as my ringtone.

edit: Make sure to click on the little bell next to the Google Search button to change the search bar from Google Search to Audiko search.
I'm not sure about its legality, but that is one interesting website. Thanks for the link.
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FireWire
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Jul 30, 2010, 09:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by -Q- View Post
Recording calls could get you (and Apple) in a mess of legal trouble. I can see why they'd prevent that. A lot more trouble than it's worth.
Are you sure? I think it's totally legal, as they sell the necessary equipment at Radio Shack and Staples without any problem. It's just that the recording have no legal value unless the other party is aware you were recording.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 30, 2010, 09:46 AM
 
I dunno about Canadia.

Here in Europe, AFAIK it's illegal to record phone conversations without informing the other person.
     
 
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