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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > iPhone 4 (Official Thread)

iPhone 4 (Official Thread) (Page 7)
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scaught
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Jun 24, 2010, 09:23 AM
 
I tried a few things regarding the signal:

I tried just holding the sides in my right hand while not on a call, and noticed they would drop.

Then I tried it when I was on a call, and saw they didn't drop as much. I don't know if it's a sporadic issue or what.

I also have a bumper case on the way, and it sounds like that's clearing up peoples issues. I just hope I actually like the case and aren't annoyed at how it bulks up the phone. Damn this thing is sexay.
     
MacinTommy
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Jun 24, 2010, 09:39 AM
 
Well since Radio Shack failed me or Apple failed to send enough units to them (I really don't know who's to blame), I ordered one last night and now have to wait until July 14th until it ships. Perhaps these screen & reception issues will be fixed by then...
     
Angelo78
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Jun 24, 2010, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by scaught View Post
I tried a few things regarding the signal:

I tried just holding the sides in my right hand while not on a call, and noticed they would drop.

Then I tried it when I was on a call, and saw they didn't drop as much. I don't know if it's a sporadic issue or what.

I also have a bumper case on the way, and it sounds like that's clearing up peoples issues. I just hope I actually like the case and aren't annoyed at how it bulks up the phone. Damn this thing is sexay.
It seems that when you touch both the top antenna and the one that goes along the bottom things get worse. If you hold it so you do not touch the lower antenna (from the Home button and below) it doesn't seem to be as bad.

Apparently the two antennae do not like to be bridged. You'd think if this is truly a design issue (and not software related) that something this obvious would have been caught long ago. I don't want to use a bumper but those that have them say it cures the issue.

Oddly enough I watched a youtube video of an 3GS running iOS4 have the same issues when he touched the metal bezel. Hopefully it's a software problem that can be fixed with an update.
     
Cold Warrior
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Jun 24, 2010, 10:26 AM
 
I tried bridging them as described and holding various sides with different hands and pressing with multiple fingers at all areas but saw no loss.
     
Hodog16
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Jun 24, 2010, 10:35 AM
 
Didn't get shipping confirmation until lunchtime yesterday, but the phone is scheduled to arrive this afternoon. Probably won't get to use it until tomorrow though due to work.

I have read many people talk about how much faster the new phone is than their 3G/3GS. Coming from a 1st gen, I can only imagine how much nicer this one will be!
     
scaught
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Jun 24, 2010, 10:56 AM
 
Coldwarrior: Agree. I think this is a bit blown out of proportions.

Originally Posted by Hodog16 View Post
I have read many people talk about how much faster the new phone is than their 3G/3GS. Coming from a 1st gen, I can only imagine how much nicer this one will be!
I dont think it's MUCH faster than 3GS, and some of that improvement could just be optimizations in the iOS4 code.

If I can just get the debug mode turned off...[/old timer macnn joke]

The jump from 1st gen to this will blow your mind, for sure. Enjoy!
     
awaspaas
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Jun 24, 2010, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Many are reporting that there is actually no difference in call quality/reception. The signal status indicators, which is a very simple display, use complex algorithms based on signal strength, noise, etc etc. I would imagine that your hand greatly affects the inputs into those algorithms, and I'd bet you that the new iPhone needs some sort of update to AT&Ts network to take full advantage of the new antennae (remember the new cell tower selection process touted for iPhone4?), and that not all of AT&T's towers are up to speed before the phone actually launched. Several people on other boards who loaded jailbroken profiles to iPhone 4 after experiencing the problem, reported that the actual signal strength and noise when displayed as a number did not change.

All i'm sayin is let the damn thing launch before making assumptions about its operation on AT&Ts network
When I bridge the two sections, the signal drops to zero and I can't place any calls. When I'm on a call and I bridge the two sections, the call immediately fails. So much for it just being a software issue that doesn't affect calls.
     
awaspaas
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Jun 24, 2010, 11:00 AM
 
Does anybody know if the Apple stores have a ton of bumper cases? Would I be able to go get one today without waiting in an ungodly line?
     
jokell82
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Jun 24, 2010, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by scaught View Post
Coldwarrior: Agree. I think this is a bit blown out of proportions.



I dont think it's MUCH faster than 3GS, and some of that improvement could just be optimizations in the iOS4 code.

If I can just get the debug mode turned off...[/old timer macnn joke]

The jump from 1st gen to this will blow your mind, for sure. Enjoy!
I'm not sure how it can be blown out of proportion when everyone (except for a few people) seem to be able to replicate the problem. I've not had a call drop because of it, but I can definitely see signal loss when I touch the bottom left of the phone.

Also, I think the iPhone 4 is 50% faster than the 3GS - saw some actual benchmarks yesterday but can't remember where.

Originally Posted by awaspaas View Post
Does anybody know if the Apple stores have a ton of bumper cases? Would I be able to go get one today without waiting in an ungodly line?
I'd like to know this too. Think I'll call the Apple store to find out.

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stevesnj
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Jun 24, 2010, 11:06 AM
 
Well I'm gonna wait to buy my iPhone4 when the next batch comes into Best Buy, they told me mid July, maybe issues will be delt with in the new batch. I'm in no hurry.
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awaspaas
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Jun 24, 2010, 11:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
I'd like to know this too. Think I'll call the Apple store to find out.
Let us know if you learn anything.
     
jokell82
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Jun 24, 2010, 11:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by awaspaas View Post
Let us know if you learn anything.
Just busy signals so far.

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scaught
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Jun 24, 2010, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
I'm not sure how it can be blown out of proportion when everyone (except for a few people) seem to be able to replicate the problem. I've not had a call drop because of it, but I can definitely see signal loss when I touch the bottom left of the phone.
The reason why I think it's blown out of proportions is because I haven't heard of dropped calls because of it, just less bars.

50% faster? Could be. The 3gs was already pretty peppy though, so maybe it's harder to notice when it's peppy compared to peppy-er.
     
scaught
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Jun 24, 2010, 11:23 AM
 
Has anyone dinked with the new search? I was searching through text messages, and it doesn't seem to dig back very far. Is it going to take time to index the thing or ?
     
awaspaas
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Jun 24, 2010, 11:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by scaught View Post
The reason why I think it's blown out of proportions is because I haven't heard of dropped calls because of it, just less bars.
Did you not see my reply above? Also Gizmodo showed a data speed test that grinded to a halt when touching the ring.
     
scaught
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Jun 24, 2010, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by awaspaas View Post
Did you not see my reply above? Also Gizmodo showed a data speed test that grinded to a halt when touching the ring.
Oh....no...Didn't see that. Strange. Mine doesn't do that? My bars seem to lower if I grab the phone in my hand with as much hand/fingers as possible holding the edges (which really isn't how I'd hold the thing), so I do think there's something to it. Hmm.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 24, 2010, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by awaspaas View Post
Did you not see my reply above? Also Gizmodo showed a data speed test that grinded to a halt when touching the ring.
Giz…who? …oh wait, I heard they broke the phone trying to take it apart.
     
Andrew88088
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Jun 24, 2010, 12:34 PM
 
I retract my earlier comment. I've now replicated the drop in signal while holding it. Mine hasn't gone down to zero.. it went from 5 bars to 3, both times.
     
stevesnj
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Jun 24, 2010, 12:41 PM
 
For the screen laminating fluid problem the iPhone video shows the process here at 2:18,Apple - iPhone 4 - Design of the display, A4 processor, and more laminating if not done by heat requires time to work (bond using chemical), I think Apple is okay with this problem but the antenna thing is a much worse and worsening issue. Apple must of noticed some issue with the antenna or why would they design the antenna in segments instead of 1 solid band? Could they not of known the human hand is a conductor of electrons and can complete or short a circuit?
( Last edited by stevesnj; Jun 24, 2010 at 12:51 PM. )
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jokell82
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Jun 24, 2010, 12:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by stevesnj View Post
For the screen laminating fluid problem the iPhone video shows the process here at 2:18,Apple - iPhone 4 - Design of the display, A4 processor, and more laminating if not done by heat requires time to work (bond using chemical), I think Apple is okay with this problem but the antenna thing is a much worse and worsening issue. Apple must of noticed some issue with the antenna or why would they design the antenna in segments instead of 1 solid band? Could they not of known the human hand is a conductor of electrons and can complete or short a circuit?
It's not one solid band because it isn't just one antenna. One is cellular and the other is Wifi and bluetooth.

But it does make me wonder what the heck happens in their QA department...

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stevesnj
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Jun 24, 2010, 01:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
It's not one solid band because it isn't just one antenna. One is cellular and the other is Wifi and bluetooth.

But it does make me wonder what the heck happens in their QA department...
Yeh I hear ya, that is why was just curious, since the skin of your hand can complete a circuit than why segment the antenna in the first place? why not just make the band plastic? But I do like the steel.
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Eyenigma
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Jun 24, 2010, 01:43 PM
 


I have a hard time believing Steve didn't know about this issue... look where he's holding the phone. Seems all too suspect. Not to sound like a conspiracist but... ?? Hmmmmmm
     
Eyenigma
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Jun 24, 2010, 01:44 PM
 
Sorry, duplicate post.
( Last edited by Eyenigma; Jun 24, 2010 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Duplicate)
     
Cold Warrior
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Jun 24, 2010, 01:48 PM
 
Seems like he's holding it so the Russian pres can see the demo.
     
scaught
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Jun 24, 2010, 02:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eyenigma View Post
I have a hard time believing Steve didn't know about this issue... look where he's holding the phone. Seems all too suspect. Not to sound like a conspiracist but... ?? Hmmmmmm
No, you definitely sound like a conspiracist.
     
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Jun 24, 2010, 02:26 PM
 
If he had regrown his beard, he could pass for Rasputin, and convince the Russian leader he can buy magic from Apple.
     
Eyenigma
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Jun 24, 2010, 03:03 PM
 
YouTube - iPhone 4 Drops Calls when Left Corner is Touched

This is quite disturbing. Probably the most chilling look at the problem. Apple is sitting on a COLOSSAL failure here. Recalling 600,000 iPhones... not likely to happen. So far people are being told "to just buy a case."

The arrogance of a company with SUCH a loyal fan base to treat them like this.
     
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Jun 24, 2010, 03:20 PM
 
I think we all need to chill out for a little bit. Let Apple address this issue before we start berating them. I'm not saying let them off of the hook, but its too early to start tossing blame around.

This is indeed an issue, but Apple has yet to release any statement on it. And you know they will at some point.

Deep breaths people... nice and easy.
     
kman42
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Jun 24, 2010, 03:25 PM
 
two new iphone 4s in my office this morning. we tried everything to replicate the signal drop issue, including, one finger bridge, hand cup, three different people, wet fingers and nothing...the signal was completely unchanged. This clearly indicates there is nothing wrong with the phone. Instead, I propose that a new superconductivity trait has been discovered in a subset of iPhone owners. (The first part was serious; we really couldn't replicate the problem on either phone.)

As for speed--oh, it's WAY faster than my 3gs with iOS4.
     
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Jun 24, 2010, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eyenigma View Post
YouTube - iPhone 4 Drops Calls when Left Corner is Touched

This is quite disturbing. Probably the most chilling look at the problem. Apple is sitting on a COLOSSAL failure here. Recalling 600,000 iPhones... not likely to happen. So far people are being told "to just buy a case."

The arrogance of a company with SUCH a loyal fan base to treat them like this.
Sell your stock.

They're obviously beleaguered.
     
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Jun 24, 2010, 03:35 PM
 
New iPhone 4. No reception problems to report.
     
jokell82
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Jun 24, 2010, 03:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eyenigma View Post
YouTube - iPhone 4 Drops Calls when Left Corner is Touched

This is quite disturbing. Probably the most chilling look at the problem. Apple is sitting on a COLOSSAL failure here. Recalling 600,000 iPhones... not likely to happen. So far people are being told "to just buy a case."

The arrogance of a company with SUCH a loyal fan base to treat them like this.
Considering there hasn't been any kind of response from Apple on the issue, how could you consider them arrogant in this case?

It is likely that if it is a *major* problem they will be giving out bumper cases for free with purchase (either through a lawsuit or to keep one from happening).

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
Cold Warrior
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Jun 24, 2010, 03:40 PM
 
iPhone 4 just says 'iPhone' on the back. It looks like Apple has reset the name. Next year leaves room for the logical name 'iPhone 4G' and then in 2 years 'iPhone 4GS'.
     
osiris
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Jun 24, 2010, 03:41 PM
 
I think the right question to ask at a time like this is ...

Will it blend?

YouTube - Will It Blend? - iPhone 4 Uncovered
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
stevesnj
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Jun 24, 2010, 04:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eyenigma View Post
YouTube - iPhone 4 Drops Calls when Left Corner is Touched

This is quite disturbing. Probably the most chilling look at the problem. Apple is sitting on a COLOSSAL failure here. Recalling 600,000 iPhones... not likely to happen. So far people are being told "to just buy a case."

The arrogance of a company with SUCH a loyal fan base to treat them like this.
This is chilling and disturbing Firm calls 29 Android apps spyware-like as Google pulls two | Electronista

Apple just needs to act quickly, it's not that bad but it is a problem.
MacBook Pro 15" i7 ~ Snow Leopard ~ iPhone 4 - 16Gb
     
Hodog16
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Jun 24, 2010, 05:19 PM
 
My guess is that Apple stores are out of bumpers. Usually with a frenzied release like this, people buy a bunch of accessories they don't need. I remember watching this phenomenon when the Wii came out years ago.

That and the fact that even if you found the bumper, you'd have to wait in a long line. May be better to try Best Buy or Walmart to see if they have any bumpers in stock?
     
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Jun 24, 2010, 05:22 PM
 
I arrived at the Apple store in Glendale, AZ (Arrowhead Mall) at 0530 this morning and there were two lines. I was about 100 people back in the line for those with reservations. A line for those without was three times as long. At first we lined up outside, then they opened the doors to the mall to let us in at about 0600. First the reservations line went, then the line for those without. Many of those without seemed genuinely surprised that such a thing as reservations existed. I heard more than a few people say they didn't know you could make reservations.

Apple provided coffee, water and snacks (pretzels, cookies and nutrition bars), but the mall didn't bother to turn the escalators on. Everyone had to hoof it up the long way for restroom breaks. There was an elevator nearby, but most just took the "stairs." There were a couple of off-duty cops on hand to keep the peace, as well as Paul Blart on his Segway, but they weren't needed. The entire affair was orderly.

Being about 100 people back, it took me 30 minutes to get in once the doors to the actual Apple store opened... They admitted about 20 at a time, it seemed. Checking eligibility and paying took just a few minutes and they did make you activate in the store - "to make sure the phone is okay." Not sure whether that was an excuse they fed people or whether they were genuinely concerned about yellow spots or DOA units. I plugged my new phone into iTunes on one of their MacBooks and instantly got the "iPhone is Activated" message. It took another hour-plus before the phone was "really" activated and I could use it. Unfortunately, once the new phone was plugged into iTunes in the store, my existing 3GS was immediately deactivated. I had two phones showing "No Service." I wasn't able to call home and share my good fortune. Luckily, I had no real reason to, but I could see others having a real problem with them killing your old phone before the new one was ready.

Initial impressions... I wanted a white one, so I'm adjusting to what a fingerprint magnet the black one is. Man, this thing is glossy. The Retina Display has to be seen to be believed. It's frakking incredible! Just sick! Look at the apple on boot up or the battery graphic when charging. Wow!

Speaking of the display, the difference between apps which have been updated for the new res and those which so far haven't is unfortunately striking. The stock Apple icons are breathtaking. Many of the third party apps, notsomuch. Apps with beautiful icons - like Tipulator and AwesomeNote - now look kind of blah. I hope the daily deluge of app updates continues. There are many I'm looking for, including the now Apple-owned Siri.

Lastly, on the display, text is amazing. Just amazing.

I bought the black Bumper case and its fit is not as tight as I would've imagined. Otherwise, its of above-average quality. I'll give it awhile to see whether the Bumper is sufficient or whether I'm gonna bathe the whole thing in a more traditional case.

That's my experience. Feels good to share. I hope someone got something out of it.

Originally Posted by awaspaas
Does anybody know if the Apple stores have a ton of bumper cases? Would I be able to go get one today without waiting in an ungodly line?
They had hundreds of the Bumper cases on the hooks, ready for sale this morning. You could have any color you wanted, as long as it was black.
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awaspaas
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Jun 24, 2010, 05:40 PM
 
Interesting note - at home I had the worst kind of antenna problem, as you can see from my previous posting. I ran some errands this afternoon and was surprised to find that when I was in my local Target store, no matter how I held it, there was full signal strength. So, it's probably somewhat dependent on the signal strength and amount of interference at your location. My guess is those who have not yet seen the antenna issue may indeed have troubles in a different location.
     
kman42
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Jun 24, 2010, 07:00 PM
 
I finally got this to happen. I had to use a moist thumb and hold it for about 5 seconds and then the signal started to drop slowly. I'm curious to see if anyone experiences this with real-world use.

My guess about what is happening is that the phone senses a poorer signal, even if it might not really be any worse, since the antennae are looped and then switches to another cell channel which may actually be worse. If it had stayed on the first channel, nobody would notice. This then loops until the signal is significantly degraded.

While the antennae looping is a result of the hardware configuration, I'm guessing the actual bug is in the new software they introduced that switches channels. This new software was mentioned by one of the reviewers and Mossberg mentioned that Apple acknowledged a reception bug that would be fixed. Put it all together and I bet we have a public acknowledgement within 48 hours and a fix within two weeks.
     
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Jun 24, 2010, 07:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by awaspaas View Post
Interesting note - at home I had the worst kind of antenna problem, as you can see from my previous posting. I ran some errands this afternoon and was surprised to find that when I was in my local Target store, no matter how I held it, there was full signal strength. So, it's probably somewhat dependent on the signal strength and amount of interference at your location. My guess is those who have not yet seen the antenna issue may indeed have troubles in a different location.
Like I said, its most likely an algorithm malfunction (software problem) for the signal strength display bars. I wan't able to replicate the issue at the store or at my house, and i'm getting 4-5bars at my house whereas my father's 3gs usually gets 2-3 when he's at the house. I'm very pleased with this iPhone.

I waited for 30 minutes in line around 2pm at my local store where I had one reserved.

This is my first iPhone.

Quick question though, why does my iPhone say "14 gb" when I have it hooked up to iTunes? is 2gb reserved for iOS and therefore not counted as space? Is it space lost in formatting? I thought Snow Leopard and the newer iTunes were showing space in base 10?
     
kman42
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Jun 24, 2010, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Quick question though, why does my iPhone say "14 gb" when I have it hooked up to iTunes? is 2gb reserved for iOS and therefore not counted as space? Is it space lost in formatting? I thought Snow Leopard and the newer iTunes were showing space in base 10?
The system and builtin apps.
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 24, 2010, 07:51 PM
 
So nobody at Apple ever held the phone in their left hand? That's a bit of a worry. What else didn't they test? This release seems like it's seriously flawed. I may wait for iPhone 5...
     
Eyenigma
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Jun 24, 2010, 08:09 PM
 
Sell your stock.
Now, now... trailing stop for me. I'm cynical, but not a dummy. When you figure this is the absolute worst (or hyped?) modern product launch ever for Apple, and all the mistakes that were made... And then figure people are still lining up in groves to buy it... only a fool would think they won't rake in the cash this quarter.

Apple just needs to act quickly, it's not that bad but it is a problem.
Agreed completely, and Apple should come right out and acknowledge it's a legitimate concern. Naturally they're going to balk at recalling 600,000 iPhones (plus whatever else is in production), but to have this sort of issue after an already troubled prelude - it's a disaster any way you slice it.

Put it this way, I had one reserved and was eager to spend my shekels. Upon reading the reports of the signal loss, I opted not to buy. Sure, my phone was snatched up by someone else undoubtedly, but Apple is lucky there isn't a (real) viable alternative on the market to capitalize on their missteps.
     
amazing
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Jun 24, 2010, 08:10 PM
 
Bumpers solves the whole antenna issue and protects the phone from casual drops, scratches...
     
Snow-i
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Jun 24, 2010, 08:13 PM
 
imitchell, i've been using the phone extensively for the better part of the day. The reports on the internet are blown way out of proportion - no dropped calls even in areas that I traditionally can't even make a call on AT&T, and the educated guesses that its simply a bar-display issue seems to be the best explanation. It will be fixed, and fear not. By the time you get your hands on one, this "issue" will be resolved. The reception so far seems to be better - regardless of the signal status bars.
     
Eyenigma
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Jun 24, 2010, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
Bumpers solves the whole antenna issue and protects the phone from casual drops, scratches...
That's fine, but what if you had to wrap your Macbook in a case just to use it. The bumper treats the symptom, but it doesn't cure the problem. I for one hate using a case on any mobile device. And telling customers via your "tech support" to simply use a bumper is like a Window's tech support person saying "well just don't click that link," when IE crashes.



Oh well, I'll just have to wait for revision B. Such is the case with most first release Apple computers. Perhaps it's unrealistic to think such wouldn't be the case with a phone.
     
Snow-i
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Jun 24, 2010, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eyenigma View Post

Agreed completely, and Apple should come right out and acknowledge it's a legitimate concern. Naturally they're going to balk at recalling 600,000 iPhones (plus whatever else is in production), but to have this sort of issue after an already troubled prelude - it's a disaster any way you slice it.
It isn't a disaster in any way that you can slice it. the issue isn't affecting the ability to make phone calls. Its a software bug. Ever bought electronics before on their launch? It happens all the time and Apple has an excellent track record of fixing it quickly and thoroughly. Apple has already indirectly,acknowledged the issue, that its a software bug and shouldn't actually affect performance, and that they are working to fix it ASAP.

Put it this way, I had one reserved and was eager to spend my shekels. Upon reading the reports of the signal loss, I opted not to buy. Sure, my phone was snatched up by someone else undoubtedly, but Apple is lucky there isn't a (real) viable alternative on the market to capitalize on their missteps.
You should invest the money you saved into your tinfoil hat. 600,000 people bought iPhones today - and though the issue can be demonstrated on many of them, there would be a much bigger response if this issue were the "disaster" you're claiming it to be. You didn't even buy one, how could you judge the legitimacy of the claims? My experience is that the new iPhone gets better reception than its predecessor in all situations i've used it. Thats not as fun as your feigned outrage though...carry on, i guess.
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 24, 2010, 08:26 PM
 
     
AKcrab
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Jun 24, 2010, 08:46 PM
 
I've been able to test 5 new phones for this "signal loss". None seem affected. None have issues with the screens, either.
     
Snow-i
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Jun 24, 2010, 08:52 PM
 
Yeah,

I don't think this issue is affecting anyone other than the perception of lost service. Let em fix it.
     
 
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