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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > I need advice on upgrade

I need advice on upgrade
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larrego
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Nov 26, 2006, 10:26 PM
 
I´m new in MacWorld. A good friend gave me his old iBook clamshell with a 300Mhz G3 processor. It has OS 9 installed but is running quite slow. I´m planning to make an upgrade but I need some info first. I plan using this laptop just for internet browsing a word processing. Maybe view some photos, use with iPod but no video. My questions are 1) Is it possible or necesary to upgrade the CPU? 2) What is the maximum RAM that I could install 3) What is the maximum size of HDD i can install 4) If I can´t get an airport card can I use any other USB wifi adpater?
I know this questions might seem silly but I have almost zero experience with Mac. For what I've read and what I've seen is really much better that PC based laptops.
Thank for your help
     
pat++
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Nov 27, 2006, 06:07 PM
 
1/ It's not possible.
2/ Max memory is 288mb (with a 256mb stick + 32 built-in). This requires the latest firmware upgrade
3/ No idea
4/ Probably, but it's going to be a pain to find a an USB adapter with drivers for Mac OS 9. Get an airport card on ebay.

Bottom line: I think even for simple tasks like web browsing this iBook will have hard times and will show its age.
     
amazing
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Nov 27, 2006, 09:02 PM
 
MacTracker says that it'll go up to 544 MB of RAM (Apple was always conservative on their max RAM estimates. When later larger chips came out, people discovered that they worked.)

Frankly, I think you'd be better off using OS 9. iCab is a still-maintained browser that people recommend. You can still find airport cards, like the following (you can see if you find anything cheaper on ebay)

Airport 802.11b Wireless Card - original inte... (630-2883) at OWC
     
zaghahzag
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Nov 27, 2006, 09:30 PM
 
getting a faster HD will make a huge difference. The one that it came with is tiny and probably 1/3 the speed of a modern one. it's amazing how old macs do when the hd gets updated.

just don't plan on putting osx on that machine as it will be slow and hard to install.
     
shifuimam
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Nov 27, 2006, 09:45 PM
 
You will be able to use a 512MB stick in a clamshell. It's been done many times.

You can get an Airport card for around $75, or you can get an original Airport base station for around $45 and do a little modification to your iBook to make the card in it fit.

There are a number of wireless USB adapters that will work. Some older Belkin ones have the same chipset as the Airport cards, and are recognized as such. Others make use of the Ralink chipset drivers, which are freely available for download. Try Googling "OS X Wireless USB" and see what you can find.

I would imagine you can put at least a 60GB drive in a clamshell. You do need to be careful though - 12.5mm drives are too thick. You could probably put a bigger drive in, but how much space do you really need? I have a 20GB drive in mine with OS X 10.3.9, Photoshop CS, MS Office X, and a number of other applications installed, and I have plenty of room. I do most of my work with big data files - movies, music, and images - on my much faster Dell desktop. Try and find something low-end on eBay. You'll want to check out iFixit.com for a guide on how to install a hard drive. It's a long process - at least 45 minutes from start to finish - but it's worth it to do it the right way.

I don't know enough about OS 9 to know if the mods I've done to my own iBook are compatible. For instance, it's quite simple to install a CD-RW/DVD combo drive (internal, not USB or anything) and patch OS X to allow burning CDs on a clamshell iBook. Not so sure with OS 9. I run 10.3.9 pretty smoothly, to be honest. I almost exclusively use my iBook for browsing the web, chatting, playing an OS X freeware version of Tetris, and keeping a private journal with Journler. For those things, FireFox and Adium and the other two apps I mentioned work just fine in OS X.

If you're interested in maxing out your iBook to its real full potential, feel free to check out the thread I linked in my sig. Make sure you read everything before you PM anyone there or post a question - there's a lot of information in the first few posts about adding wireless and upgrading the CD drive.

Welcome to the clamshell club!
( Last edited by shifuimam; Nov 27, 2006 at 10:02 PM. )
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larrego  (op)
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Nov 27, 2006, 09:50 PM
 
Thanks to all the answers. I´m concerned about some other things. 1) This laptop has an internal RAM of 32Mb could this be changed? 2) In Mac Recycling page there are 40Gb and bigger HDD but with higher speeds. Would temperature be an issue if I change the HDD?
     
shifuimam
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Nov 27, 2006, 10:00 PM
 
I'd avoid a 7200rpm just to be safe, but a 5200rpm drive should be okay. You don't need to buy a drive from a "certified Mac dealer" or a "used Mac dealer" or any such thing. Any 2.5" ATA laptop drive will work just fine. Look on eBay for a good deal. If you're willing to buy new, I would highly recommend Seagate. All of their hard drives come standard with a five-year warranty. Toshiba drives (what I use right now) are also excellent and have three-year warranties. If you want a warranty on a used drive, just ask the eBay seller for the model and serial numbers. You can check the warranty on the drive manufacturer's site.

The internal ram in an iBook is soldered to the board. You can't change it. The most you can do is stick a 512MB stick in there. I have a 256MB stick in mine, and it works fine for my needs. Don't try a 1GB or larger stick - I've heard of people causing permanent kernel panics and other nasty things from anything larger than 512MB.

Also, as a side note - it is POSSIBLE to overclock the CPU and bus speeds on a clamshell iBook via soldering circuits on the logic board, but I've never done it and am too scared of ruining my board by trying it. It has been done, however.
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mduell
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Nov 27, 2006, 10:23 PM
 
Temperature is not an issue with 7200RPM drives.
     
shifuimam
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Nov 27, 2006, 11:52 PM
 
Sweet! Good to know - I may upgrade at some point. I don't know enough about the heat generated from different speeds of drives to know if it makes a difference in a fanless design like the clamshell. I do know that some 7200rpm drives require more power than 4200 or 5200rpm drives - my external USB case failed with a 7200rpm drive because the power supply couldn't handle it - but I assume that would be a nonissue with a laptop?
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larrego  (op)
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Nov 28, 2006, 03:08 PM
 
I´ve ordered a 20Gb HDD because its all I need and 256Mb RAM. With this new configuration how well coul OS X 10.3 run? I believe a USB wifi conection could be used. Is this good or I should better try to get an Air Port card
     
shifuimam
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Nov 29, 2006, 10:00 AM
 
Only some USB adapters will work. Those that use certain Broadcom chipsets should be recognized immediately by the Airport drivers. Those that use certain Ralink drivers can use drivers freely available from Ralink.

Try Googling about it and do a little research - Googling "OS X USB wireless" should turn up a plethora of results.

If you're willing to do a little hardware modification to your iBook, you could pretty easily put a hacked PCMCIA wireless card in the Airport slot. The original Aiport base stations had Airport cards in them, except that those cards were longer (like the regular PCMCIA wireless cards you see in older non-Apple laptops), meaning that OS X will see it as an Airport card. Although it's not a recommended solution, you can find the information here.

With a 20GB drive and the additional 256MB RAM, you should run fine. It won't be fast by any means, but it's fast enough to do (minimal) Photoshop work, run MS Office, play basic games, etc.
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mduell
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Dec 2, 2006, 11:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Sweet! Good to know - I may upgrade at some point. I don't know enough about the heat generated from different speeds of drives to know if it makes a difference in a fanless design like the clamshell. I do know that some 7200rpm drives require more power than 4200 or 5200rpm drives - my external USB case failed with a 7200rpm drive because the power supply couldn't handle it - but I assume that would be a nonissue with a laptop?
The difference in power (and thus heat) between 7200 and 5400RPM 2.5" drives is 0-0.25W... however they're all around the 2.5W mark (the specification limit of USB), so I can see that a cheap USB enclosure could fail if it went just over (a good one should limit the power and survive).
     
zubro
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Dec 3, 2006, 12:33 PM
 
why don t you buy an iBook G4 instead?
It would be less painfull to my eyes to do so instead of changing the Ram + HDD + Airport card, etc
+, it is such a pain to change parts on iBooks..
Well, it is your time and $
     
shifuimam
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Dec 3, 2006, 03:24 PM
 
You know, I've used several Apple laptops - a clamshell iBook, iBook G4, and PowerBook G4. To be honest, I just like using the clamshell better than the G4 iBook. The PowerBook is also nice, but there's the obvious cost increase to consider there.

There's not a lot I can't do on my clamshell. After talking to a friend and reading this thread, someday I'll upgrade to a 7200rpm drive (there's a 4200 in it right now), when the prices get a little lower. That will help with opening applications, but I use Photoshop CS and Office X on my iBook without too much difficulty.

If my mod project turns out the way I'm hoping (link in sig for details), that will completely change how I can use my iBook - XGA screen resolution is all that puppy is missing.

Plus, half the fun of upgrading is doing the actual upgrade! Maybe I'm weird, but I enjoy taking my iBook apart to make it better.
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larrego  (op)
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Dec 4, 2006, 04:11 PM
 
Zubro thanks for the advice but I agree with shifuimam. I don´t want to leave the clamshell. Is a present. Besides with the color it still makes everybody turn around when you take it out. Is a very atractive machine. Also what I do is just Office X and Internet and mail so I really dont need a much powerful laptop. I sometimes annoying the time it take to open the programs but it does very well what I need. I like projects and I'm learnig about Macworld with this clamshell so I`m doing all this for the academic purpose of self learning with everybodys help
     
larrego  (op)
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Dec 7, 2006, 05:25 PM
 
I have now 256 in RAM and a bigger HDD working well with OS X 10.3.9. I havn´t been able to get an airport card so I googled OS X wireless and found some devices that might work, BUT my new question is. My clamshell has only one USB 1.1. Because is 1.1 and not 2.0 would there be any trouble with the Belkin or D Link device? Would this USB work well with the 2.0 device?
     
shifuimam
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Dec 13, 2006, 10:33 AM
 
Sorry that this thread got lost in the masses...I just came back to it today.

USB 1.1 is considerably slower than USB 2.0. Trying to surf the internet using 1.1 will probably be mediocre - I would assume you'll experience speeds a little faster than dial-up. However, it's still wireless internet. You likely wouldn't be able to download files quickly at all, but browsing pages should be manageable.

It's worth trying. Just make sure you buy from somewhere like Best Buy or Fry's so that you can easily return the adapter if you don't like the results.
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gooser
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Dec 13, 2006, 11:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by larrego View Post
I have now 256 in RAM and a bigger HDD working well with OS X 10.3.9. I havn´t been able to get an airport card so I googled OS X wireless and found some devices that might work, BUT my new question is. My clamshell has only one USB 1.1. Because is 1.1 and not 2.0 would there be any trouble with the Belkin or D Link device? Would this USB work well with the 2.0 device?
well, if you only have one usb port it seems a waste to use it for wifi. just get an original airport card and be done with it. a much cleaner look and a few years from now if you outgrow it you can probably sell it for what you paid for it. (the airport card i mean) what color do you have?
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mduell
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Dec 13, 2006, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
USB 1.1 is considerably slower than USB 2.0. Trying to surf the internet using 1.1 will probably be mediocre - I would assume you'll experience speeds a little faster than dial-up. However, it's still wireless internet. You likely wouldn't be able to download files quickly at all, but browsing pages should be manageable.
Even assuming that you only get one third of USB 1.1's potential speed, it's still faster than many (most?) home broadband connections.

500KBps (4Mbps) is quite quick for file downloads.
     
larrego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2006, 09:57 AM
 
What is the speed of an AirPort card? What downloa rate has compared with the Wifi through the USB 1.1?
     
mduell
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Dec 14, 2006, 07:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by larrego View Post
What is the speed of an AirPort card? What downloa rate has compared with the Wifi through the USB 1.1?
Airport (802.11b) has a paper speed of 11Mbps, a real world peak speed of 5.5Mbps, and a practical speed of about 1-3Mbps.
USB (1.1) has a paper speed of 12 Mbps, a real world peak speed of about 8Mbps, and a practical speed of about 4-5Mbps.
With most home broadband connections in the 0.75-5Mbps range, it really doesn't matter which route you go.
     
accozzaglia
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Feb 6, 2007, 01:11 AM
 
Not to beat a dead thread, but a couple of things I found that might shed some light on the heat issue inside a fanless clamshell.

The latest 7200RPM notebook drives -- as performance reviewed on Seagate Momentus 7200.1 Notebook Drive versus Others -- seem to suggest that because the newer technology in these drives enable better performance at lower wattages than their 5400RPM predecessors, they are likely to produce roughly close to the same heat as 5400, if not lower (e.g., the new Hitachi 7K100 100GB model).

* * *

On another note:

Stepping over to the "just because I can" camp, I just purchased my second clamshell iBook, which will be arriving shortly. Despite the fact that it will become the fourth laptop on my desk, and despite how I now use the last and fastest iBook G4 for daily tasks (purchased as a "replacement" only because the DC-in power board on my indigo clamshell needs replacing, keeping it from being moved around a lot, along with the dreaded polycarbonate laminating problem), I'd rather be out and about with a clamshell in hand.

After three years of using one and dragging it about to four nations over two continents (and on a few cross-continental road trips as my jukebox), I can vouch that clamshells: are incredibly durable; are astonishingly easy to maintain a grip no matter how they're being held; have the most comfortable palm rests of any Apple laptop I've known; ditto on the trackpad button (my outermost thumb knuckle on my right hand isn't punished when I use it); and still aren't slouches in the performance department, all things considered.

This whole speed obsession thing is all good times and not unlike trying to own the fastest sports car on the block (a costly pissing contest, really), but against time, speed and features are technological relativism: why would anyone be so insane as to marvel over a 450MHz dual-processor G4 Power Mac, or a 64K computer for $595? Because it's the year 2000 and 1983, respectively -- not 2007.

Sure, I'll break down and wind up with a new MacBook [Pro] one of these days (or maybe, for my small business, an Xserve with Woodcrest Xeon), but it's the "soul" of the clamshell whose industrial design cues and comfort suggest that it's a computer to be used -- and used honestly -- without feeling like one is treading thin ice with a foreboding sense of flimsiness, or logic board failure associated with some of the later Apple laptops.

[Isn't comfort of use kind of the point? At least part of it? Shouldn't it be?]

So, what'll be done to this key lime clamshell I'm excited to receive? Well, I'm assisting on shifuimam's "Clamshell XGA" project, and I'm fairly confident it'll come to fruition. An XGA inside a clamshell would be phenomenal (since it would have the same number of pixels as this late-2005-era 14" iBook -- which itself is a sad story, but all that Cupertino love was given to the first MacBook, I suppose) and, relatively speaking, compact.

A 512MB PC133 SO-DIMM is on the way, too. And once I can afford to, a 7200RPM drive will be added, alongside a Pioneer dual-layer DVD-RW burner. Maybe if I get brave, I'll try to overclock to 533MHz or something, working closely to ensure all that added heat can be dissipated.

Why? Because I can. Because I'll use it until it falls apart. Because people will still approach me and ask, with all honest sincerity, whether what I'm using is Apple's latest laptop -- followed by that bittersweet pang when I respond, "No, this is several years old, and they don't make them like this any longer."

It'll never be the "best" computer -- it simply can't be.

But somewhere inside this Mac user, it still feels neat to have that wee ego boost of knowing that your technologically antique machinery still summons a genuine admiration, even envy from some newer 'Book owners who glare at you with jealousy and scorn, all while bearing a [expletive]-eating grin to keep the peace.

They might have the best computer in the room, but they know you're having a lot of fun using your clamshell.

For some, it's the unique vintage dress you stumble into which fits you perfectly and only you, and doing it stunningly so; while for others, it's the rust heap of a vehicle in a field which is painstakingly restored until it looks and drives new again. It's illogical emotion, unswerving loyalty, and undying passion. Why are there still Amiga diehards? Surely they must be stark-raving mental, eh?

Life is short. If a clamshell iBook gives you a good feeling every time you use one, then why not keep one running for daily use?

After all is said and done, it won't be surprising if the Jobs-Ives union shall be remembered in a museum for, über alles, the clamshells, the original iMac series, and their careful selection of a novel colour palette. Love them or loathe them, they are signature pieces, right up there with the original Apple ][, Mac 128K, and original iPod designs.

Apple got it right with the clamshell. They really did.
MacBook Pro 13" [#1] :: 2.26/2GB/160 [5400]/n/SD(dl)/10.6.2c
MacBook Pro 13" [#2] :: 2.26/2GB/160 [5400]/n/SD(dl)/10.6.2c
MacBook Pro 15" Santa Rosa :: 2.2/2GB/120 [5400]/n/SD(dl)/10.5.5c [STOLEN]
iBook G4 :: 1.42/1GB/60 [4200]/g/SD(sl)/10.5.8c
PowerBook Ti G4 :: 400/1GB/40 [4200]/b/DVD/10.5.8s
iBook SE Key Lime G3 :: 466/576MB/100 [7200]/VGA/b/DVD/10.4.11c
iBook Indigo G3 :: 366/320MB/40 [5400]/VGA/b/CD/10.4.11c


Clamshell XGA LCD mod thread
     
gooser
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Feb 6, 2007, 03:47 AM
 
well now, you must have a large desk.
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accozzaglia
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Feb 6, 2007, 10:05 AM
 
Well yes, I suppose I do. It's an IKEA "JERKER" series desk which makes it possible.

Even the JERKER modular desk series have their own diehard loyalists -- except instead of talking about "Rev. C", "Pismo", or "glossy vs. matte MacBook LCDs", they talk about "version 1 vs. version 2", "black/brown, birch or beech", "maxing out desk mods", and (like Apple fans) show off their setups with online galleries and fan pages that too are like shrines. One can add to a base JERKER model with add-on shelves, swing arm shelves, tower computer mounting brackets, and even drawers. Well-meaning JERKER desk owners may start out with humble intentions, but some wind up pushing the envelope on possibility after possibility after incomprehensible possibility.

[Curiously, though perhaps not, there seems to be a lot of JERKER owners with Apple products on there somewhere.]

To accommodate my workspace, I added to my own black/brown JERKER v.2 desk a second shelf extension, two swing arms, and one tower rack -- and there's still plenty of room with which to work. And best part of it? You can literally reach everything without having to get up or move your chair. The ergonomics are a brilliant study of function meeting form.

Not unlike a Mac, eh?

Anyhow, this thread lost its way, and I do apologize for that.
( Last edited by accozzaglia; Feb 6, 2007 at 10:43 AM. )
MacBook Pro 13" [#1] :: 2.26/2GB/160 [5400]/n/SD(dl)/10.6.2c
MacBook Pro 13" [#2] :: 2.26/2GB/160 [5400]/n/SD(dl)/10.6.2c
MacBook Pro 15" Santa Rosa :: 2.2/2GB/120 [5400]/n/SD(dl)/10.5.5c [STOLEN]
iBook G4 :: 1.42/1GB/60 [4200]/g/SD(sl)/10.5.8c
PowerBook Ti G4 :: 400/1GB/40 [4200]/b/DVD/10.5.8s
iBook SE Key Lime G3 :: 466/576MB/100 [7200]/VGA/b/DVD/10.4.11c
iBook Indigo G3 :: 366/320MB/40 [5400]/VGA/b/CD/10.4.11c


Clamshell XGA LCD mod thread
     
   
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