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Help remind me how great macs are again..
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Dark_Lotus
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Mar 17, 2007, 03:13 AM
 
Ok, for some reason my love for Apple has recently taken a dramatic fall. I think its because of all of the bullshit that people are throwing at me. Wether its my computer geek friends, people on other forums, or idiots like this. I just can't help but think, well, what if Macs arn't the greatest? I'm usually not the type of person that lets others influence the way I think, but for some reason this kind of bullshit really upsets me.

Just read this thread full of 'tards that was posted at a car forum I visit: click here
     
Chuckit
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Mar 17, 2007, 03:37 AM
 
Well, what if Macs aren't the greatest? If you find something better, use that. And tell me about it, because I've yet to find anything. Like I said in another thread along the same lines, Apple is the only player in this industry that knows its head from its ass. Microsoft is wandering blind, and Linux…well, LOL. Apple makes good computers, good software, they work well, they're easy to use, and they have a wide range of abilities. What more do you need?
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marden
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Mar 17, 2007, 04:28 AM
 
Ask your "friends" if they have ever gotten a worm or virus despite their protection. Then survey Mac users and ask them the same question and ask what protection they use.

Case closed.
     
tboparis
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Mar 17, 2007, 05:37 AM
 
You talk about computers in a car forum?
     
C.A.T.S. CEO
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Mar 17, 2007, 05:39 AM
 
I Heart Retard PC Users, there so funny!!!
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OwlBoy
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Mar 17, 2007, 05:49 AM
 
That guy is an all around ass if you read the rest of his site too.

He is the one who needs to shut up.
     
C.A.T.S. CEO
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Mar 17, 2007, 06:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by OwlBoy View Post
That guy is an all around ass if you read the rest of his site too.

He is the one who needs to shut up.
I agree
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smacintush
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Mar 17, 2007, 09:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dark_Lotus View Post
Ok, for some reason my love for Apple has recently taken a dramatic fall. I think its because of all of the bullshit that people are throwing at me. Wether its my computer geek friends, people on other forums, or idiots like this. I just can't help but think, well, what if Macs arn't the greatest? I'm usually not the type of person that lets others influence the way I think, but for some reason this kind of bullshit really upsets me.

Just read this thread full of 'tards that was posted at a car forum I visit: click here
Use what you like, **** the opinions of others. If it's Windows then so be it.
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Mastrap
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Mar 17, 2007, 09:32 AM
 
Who cares? Use the tool that's best for the job.
     
Mithras
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Mar 17, 2007, 09:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by tboparis View Post
You talk about computers in a car forum?
That'd be as weird as talking about cars in a computer forum...
oh wait.
     
Atheist
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Mar 17, 2007, 09:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Who cares? Use the tool that's best for the job.
Exactly... it's just a computer... who give a f*** what others think?
     
osiris
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Mar 17, 2007, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO View Post
I Heart Retard PC Users


That would make a great t-shirt for the Apple Store to hand out.

Anyway, the guy's site is kind of funny, and in a way flattering. He spent time and effort to not brag about Vista.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
marden
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Mar 17, 2007, 09:58 AM
 
Man #1: Certs is a candy mint.

Man #2: No, Certs is a breath mint.


Me:
     
besson3c
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Mar 17, 2007, 10:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO View Post
I Heart Retard PC Users, there so funny!!!
they're, not there.
     
besson3c
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Mar 17, 2007, 10:51 AM
 
What few people seem to understand, Chuckit included from the sounds of things, is that there is no "best" operating system - just different OSes with different designs that serve different purposes. There is no "best for everybody" OS, just "best for you".

It took me many years to figure this out.
     
Aron Peterson
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Mar 17, 2007, 10:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
There is no "best for everybody" OS, just "best for you".
I've been guilt of saying that many times but now believe one can weigh up an operating system's technical features and usability to make a conclusion that there can be a best OS for everybody.
Web dev, Poe, faux-naïf, keyboard warrior, often found imitating online contrarians . My stuff : DELL XPS, iPhone 6
     
highstakes
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Mar 17, 2007, 12:03 PM
 
Maddox
     
earthlings
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Mar 17, 2007, 12:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by tboparis View Post
You talk about computers in a car forum?
lol
     
earthlings
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Mar 17, 2007, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mithras View Post
That'd be as weird as talking about cars in a computer forum...
oh wait.
People hear talk about cars on this site too. Including the MacNN Lounge.
     
OldManMac
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Mar 17, 2007, 12:49 PM
 
Dark_Lotus, two questions.

How old are you , that you allow your feelings to be controlled by others?

Why do you allow your feelings to be controlled by people who appear to have the intelligence level of sixth graders, as evidenced by the links to the sites you posted?
     
ebuddy
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Mar 17, 2007, 12:49 PM
 
I read through the first couple of paragraphs and it seems this guy takes "bitterness" to whole new levels. I'm guessing he wanted to be something he's currently not and has attributed this lacking to those who generally appreciate quality. It's unfortunate. He's missing out.

Why do Mac users consider their choice of computers similar to a choice of community?
- because when someone asks you what you use and you reply "Apple" you get the all-too familiar look of disgust as if you've told them you kick little puppy dogs. Birds of a feather...

Why do Mac users say things like; "it just works"?
- because that's the best description for their personal experience. Remember, most Mac users who work in an office environment are subjected to both platforms. Their preference should be taken a little more seriously than it seems to be.

For every "MaxFIxit" forum, there are at least three equivalent "PCFixit" forums and approximately 45 flummoxed IT people scratching their heads. In fact, upon 2.5ms google search, I found the following PC problems guide. You need a guide of PC problems? PC Problems Guide

In it you will find such riveting discussions as;
- Is it advisable to take my PC's case off for cooling purposes?
- How much space do I need to have between the back of my pc and the wall?
- How can I create my own screensaver?
- My Drive letters have all been mixed. (partition necessary)
- I've lost my BIOS password, help? (Using your motherboard, locate the jumper that allows you to rest your BIOS. Alternatively, take out your BIOS chip by yourself and then replace it. Make sure your PC is off when you do this.} C'mon gramma, what are you afraid of?!?
- My keyboard keys are starting to stick.
- When I am typing, different characters appear other than what the keys show
- I'm sick of accidentally pressing the Windows key during games and having it minimize them.

See? Everyone has stupid computer problems.

By the way; the iTunes error message displayed in that article is a Windows error message I've personally never seen before on my Mac. DUH!

ebuddy
     
besson3c
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Mar 17, 2007, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Aron Peterson View Post
I've been guilt of saying that many times but now believe one can weigh up an operating system's technical features and usability to make a conclusion that there can be a best OS for everybody.
Absolutely not.

Generally speaking, there is a tradeoff of robustness, capability, and richness of feature set with usability. There are simple interfaces, and interfaces that allow users to get really hands on and control every detail. There are personal preferences - people that prefer command line interfaces for some things, for instance. There are people who need to squeak out every last bit of performance out of a piece of software, and those where this doesn't matter so much.

The simple fact is, there are extremely few designs that can be everything for everybody. No existing OS is everything for everybody, so even if you were just speaking about this in a theoretical way (in which case, I suppose I would agree with you), pragmatically speaking this just ain't so.
     
Railroader
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Mar 17, 2007, 12:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Absolutely not.

Generally speaking, there is a tradeoff of robustness, capability, and richness of feature set with usability. There are simple interfaces, and interfaces that allow users to get really hands on and control every detail. There are personal preferences - people that prefer command line interfaces for some things, for instance. There are people who need to squeak out every last bit of performance out of a piece of software, and those where this doesn't matter so much.

The simple fact is, there are extremely few designs that can be everything for everybody. No existing OS is everything for everybody, so even if you were just speaking about this in a theoretical way (in which case, I suppose I would agree with you), pragmatically speaking this just ain't so.
Isn't, not ain't.
     
besson3c
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Mar 17, 2007, 01:06 PM
 
If you want to debate specific examples, I could cite several aspects of OS X that make it not for everybody, because I myself am not completely satisfied doing all my computing in OS X. I use FreeBSD a great deal as well, and even then there are a few things I've debated running Linux for (e.g. running Xen/VMware/Wine, MythTV, etc.)
     
tboparis
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Mar 17, 2007, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mithras View Post
That'd be as weird as talking about cars in a computer forum...
oh wait.
And look at what all the car threads become after a few posts: they become as retarded as those in that car forum.
     
Jawbone54
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Mar 17, 2007, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Why do Mac users say things like; "it just works"?
- because that's the best description for their personal experience. Remember, most Mac users who work in an office environment are subjected to both platforms. Their preference should be taken a little more seriously than it seems to be.
This is a better point that I realized at first.

Mac users are often forced (job, school, etc) to use a PC from time to time. PC users almost never have to use Macs. Many have never used a Mac. Therefore, Mac users generally are more experienced than other in both formats; their opinions are often based more on experience than some garbage they read on a PC site, which is where my Mac-hating brother-in-law gets most of the bullcrap he spills out about Macs.
     
Sub
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Mar 17, 2007, 02:17 PM
 
Oh tboparis, you mean like what you just posted?

Oh, and I think one of the few, so damn annoying things about this thread, is all the noobs, asking the same damn questions over, and over again, that can't spell and have horrible grammar.
( Last edited by Sub; Mar 17, 2007 at 02:24 PM. )
     
Ryknow215
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Mar 17, 2007, 02:42 PM
 
Hmm...that's interesting. Normally I enjoy reading Maddox's random pieces of cynicism but it's ridiculous that he is targeting Mac users now. As a guy who writes software and is familiar with both Windows and Linux, surely he can appreciate an operating system that makes the user the top priority. Why is it such a big deal now that Apple is making commercials? I've seen so many pictures and articles about Microsoft and Bill Gates in the media over the past years that it's hardly fair to condemn Apple for making a few TV spots.

Does anyone else remember those TV commercials where Saturn owners talked about why they loved their Saturns? I don't see Maddox criticizing Saturn owners as neo-hippies or something similar.

As for his saying that, "I feel like Apple is not just selling computers, they're selling a way of life, and I'm not ready to be that heavily invested in a product," welcome to the 21st century! Companies have been selling products as necessary parts to one's "lifestyle" since the 1950s, not exactly a new concept coined by Apple here.

I remember seeing these adverts all the time in Rolling Stone:


Same thing, Microsoft selling a product that is essential to a lifestyle. Come on Maddox, stop being an idiot.
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Chuckit
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Mar 17, 2007, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What few people seem to understand, Chuckit included from the sounds of things, is that there is no "best" operating system - just different OSes with different designs that serve different purposes. There is no "best for everybody" OS, just "best for you".
While that is true, some operating systems serve a fairly limited purpose. Windows is best for running games and getting viruses; Linux is best for making you want to blow your brains out; Mac OS X is best for getting most things done; Solaris is best for running ZFS.

Originally Posted by Ryknow215 View Post
Hmm...that's interesting. Normally I enjoy reading Maddox's random pieces of cynicism but it's ridiculous that he is targeting Mac users now. As a guy who writes software and is familiar with both Windows and Linux, surely he can appreciate an operating system that makes the user the top priority.
Whether he appreciates it or not, he isn't attacking the operating system. He's just annoyed by Mac evangelists. Which is fine — there are lots of people who annoy me even though the causes they support are fine and dandy.
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besson3c
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Mar 17, 2007, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
While that is true, some operating systems serve a fairly limited purpose. Windows is best for running games and getting viruses; Linux is best for making you want to blow your brains out; Mac OS X is best for getting most things done; Solaris is best for running ZFS.


Whether he appreciates it or not, he isn't attacking the operating system. He's just annoyed by Mac evangelists. Which is fine — there are lots of people who annoy me even though the causes they support are fine and dandy.


Chuckit, what do you do with your computer? There are *many* things Linux handles really well, better than OS X, better than Windows. Everything you've said in the past seems to focus around average computer users doing average things on their computer (email, word pro, etc.), but there is an entire world of computing that revolves around using computers for doing other things. It might be a niche market, but it is a legitimate market, and frankly, OS X is a niche market too.
     
Chuckit
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Mar 17, 2007, 04:54 PM
 
A selection of things I regularly do with my computer that are not word-processing or e-mail:

• Lay out several weekly newspapers
• Write some simple scripts to make designing said newspapers much less hassle
• Design and maintain Web sites
• Create desktop apps
• Run a small business's network of something like 35 users (mostly using Macs, a couple of Windows PCs) between two offices
• Create Web-based apps
• Play games
• Argue with people over teh Intarwebs

And what do you usually do?

I agree there are niche purposes that OS X is not well-suited for. I don't believe OS X would generally be a good choice for embedded computing, for example. But in general, although it's a niche platform, it's good for a huge variety of things. In a some limited circumstances, of course more specialized solutions are better.
Chuck
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Ryknow215
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Mar 17, 2007, 05:05 PM
 
Whether he appreciates it or not, he isn't attacking the operating system. He's just annoyed by Mac evangelists. Which is fine — there are lots of people who annoy me even though the causes they support are fine and dandy.
Good point, but on the other hand, he gives his example of the iTunes crash and uses that to somehow solidify a point that Apple makes crap software because it gave him an error on his machine.
( Last edited by Ryknow215; Mar 17, 2007 at 05:38 PM. )
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Chuckit
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Mar 17, 2007, 05:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Ryknow215 View Post
Good point, but on the other hand, he gives his example of the iTunes crash and uses that to somehow solidify a point that Apple makes crap software because it gave him an error on his machine.
The articles are written for humor and venting, not to be scientifically accurate. He's previously posted a list of reasons why people should commit suicide.
Chuck
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rickey939
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Mar 17, 2007, 07:26 PM
 
     
besson3c
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Mar 17, 2007, 07:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
A selection of things I regularly do with my computer that are not word-processing or e-mail:

• Lay out several weekly newspapers
• Write some simple scripts to make designing said newspapers much less hassle
• Design and maintain Web sites
• Create desktop apps
• Run a small business's network of something like 35 users (mostly using Macs, a couple of Windows PCs) between two offices
• Create Web-based apps
• Play games
• Argue with people over teh Intarwebs

And what do you usually do?

I agree there are niche purposes that OS X is not well-suited for. I don't believe OS X would generally be a good choice for embedded computing, for example. But in general, although it's a niche platform, it's good for a huge variety of things. In a some limited circumstances, of course more specialized solutions are better.

That was my original point, and I agree that OS X is good for a large variety of things. It's just annoying when people use language that assumes that their method of computing is the only method of computing in existence - sort of like how some places always provide Windows only instructions and assume that our web browser is Internet Explorer.

I hope you didn't take my asking about what you do on your computer as me trying to compare dick sizes, I was just trying to use it to make this point. If you really want to know what I do on the computer, I'll tell you though.

Linux also dominates OS X and Windows in providing a server infrastructure, in bringing life to older computers, in being a viable option for education, organizations, and countries that don't have a lot of money, and it makes a great developer platform too.
( Last edited by besson3c; Mar 17, 2007 at 07:59 PM. )
     
Chuckit
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Mar 17, 2007, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I hope you didn't take my asking about what you do on your computer as me trying to compare dick sizes, I was just trying to use it to make this point. If you really want to know what I do on the computer, I'll tell you though.
No, I'm sincerely curious. Because even though other platforms are better for some things, frankly, I really do believe there's a very limited selection of things that any given platform is better for than OS X. Even for people who do need another system for some things, it still seems to me that Macs would usually cover 90% of their needs. I've heard you talk about Macs not being suited for software development before, which is why I included that. I think Macs are very nice for development work.
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Mar 17, 2007, 08:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Isn't, not ain't.
pwnt
     
besson3c
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Mar 17, 2007, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
No, I'm sincerely curious. Because even though other platforms are better for some things, frankly, I really do believe there's a very limited selection of things that any given platform is better for than OS X. Even for people who do need another system for some things, it still seems to me that Macs would usually cover 90% of their needs.
Check out my list I just added to the end of my last post detailing where Linux fares really well. Just to add to that, our local school system saved a lot of money in software licensing moving to Ubuntu + OpenOffice for a particular state-wide program for high school English departments and NCLB testing, I believe. Mind you, there were some challenges and infrastructure issues, I'm not going to claim that it is all rosy, but it did work out and there has been talk of expanding this particular program. It has been a success, my wife's mother is one of the teachers that teaches in one of these Linux labs, and she is no computer geek. I've offered some consultation to the techs running this program, off and on.

We're getting to the place where every revision of Ubuntu is getting easier and easier, we ought to see its usage growing within government and education in particular.


Anyway, I manage the DNS, DHCP, Webmail, Jabber, and IMAP servers for our university, including over 160,000 mailboxes. We are one of the largest centralized academic email systems in the country. Additionally, we also work with a SAN and pairs of F5 routers. These machines are all running either Linux or Solaris.

The University also houses what I believe is the largest academic super computer right now within a Linux cluster running in IBM Blades. We have an entire computing division devoted to research computing, and it all revolves around Linux/Unix, and possibly some Windows.

I also manage my own server for my own business (http://www.netmusician.org). I provide email, hosting, and access to my own web application, as well as several others (e.g. RT, Webmail, wiki, Gallery, WordPress, etc.). It would suck a great deal if I had to rely on OS X for this on the backend, as I rely upon several different open source software packages that would be a PITA to run and maintain under OS X without proper package management software. Of course, there are also far less dedicated server providers offering OS X Server - for good reason.

Working with the university, I've learned that open data formats makes life easier for everybody. It sucks for everybody when their data is in a special format, or tethered to a particular set of machines. I've become a supporter of open data formats and protocols, as well as a supporter of open web standards (i.e. the W3C). Many of these standards originate from the open source community.

This is not all about ideology though, because without open source software it would be *much* harder for a small business owner such as myself to survive, having to pay software licenses to do what I do. I'm literally dependent on open source software, and therefore need to be deeply entrenched in its activity.
     
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Mar 17, 2007, 08:40 PM
 
Maddox has sort of lost it ever since he wrote that sub-par book. His sony-article was pretty good though.

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