[mattfaulds]

Hi there

That NetBSD stuff is useful!

In case it is of use here are the links I've built up in my quest to understand OF/Forth:

Some tutorials:
Technical Note TN1061: Fundamentals of Open Firmware, Part I: The User Interface
Technical Note TN1062: Fundamentals of Open Firmware, Part II: The Device Tree
Technical Note TN1044: Fundamentals of Open Firmware, Part III: Understanding PCI Expansion ROM Choices for Mac OS
(openfirmware.html)
(http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~tesch/linux_info/OFref.html)

List of possible commands:
Apple Network Server 500,700: Open Firmware Read Me
http://www.firmworks.com/QuickRef.html

Changing video settings:
NetBSD/macppc Frequently Asked Questions

At some point I will get time to fiddle again. May the Forth be with you (good one that acozzaglia!)

[bund]

Unfortunately the author of the screen spanning doctor didn't actually solve our problem, but has some hints for us

hi,
i unfortunately don't have a solution to your problem.
last weekend i got my hands on a clamshell ibook (last generation 466mhz) and poked around in OF a bit.
the screen device in OF has some words (methods/commands) that can be used to change the display mode. however, all but 600x800 are disabled and i was not able to enable the other ones (with the words show-modes and set-mode you can see the mode numbers and then set the desired number, with the word enable-videomode you can enable videomodes that are not yet enabled so that you can set them with set-mode - however, i was not able to enable the higher resolution modes and even after enabling the lower res modes and switching to them the screen just turned black). i also tried to manually change the properties height and width but after booting to osx they were changed back to the original settings. i dont really know where else to attack and i don't have much time right now to play around extensively.
you could try to use those OF commands on your modified book. maybe they'll work there. unfortunately OF and forth (the language of OF) is kinda different and hard to find good info or tutorials on. but i saw that some people posted links to OF/Forth related websites which are a good start. i don't have access to any resources beyond those either. judging from the page titled something like mac os x boot 101 i would think that changing the height/width properties should be enough to make osx use a different resolution however, it seems that after requesting those properties from OF they are not used (if i changed them before in OF) so maybe the software tries to set that mode but can't because OF won't let it go and then it changes back to the default resolution. i tried to use a program called DisDave (a disassembler written in forth that can be run in open firmware) to understand what the commands for enabling a resolution do in order to find out where i could manually make changes to enable a resolution that is not supposed to be enabled but i didn't get very far (since it's very time consuming and pretty complex). i think the reason why it works with a linux cd is that it doesn't communicate with OF as much as osx does or that it just ignores certain things in OF/the device tree.
another place to possibly work with could be the osx bootloader called bootx. it can be downloaded as source from the darwin project. this is where the os askes OF for the resolution etc so maybe this part could be patched and recompiled. however, if the graphics driver (which is not available in source) again checks OF or the device tree for the allowed modes then this might not do much.
-klaus

[mattfaulds]

That is a fascinating reply. I wonder if it will work with a XGA screen hooked up...

Has anyone had time to play with this? I may well be able to try tomorrow.

[shifuimam]

Bump for updates...

Anyone figured anything out yet? I've been so busy lately that I haven't had a chance to do anything. My boyfriend just bought his first house, so our weekends have been filled with painting and shopping for furniture and stuff.

Maybe that bootx bootloader would be worth looking at.

I'm also wondering if a normal bootloader like LILO or GRUB would do something - maybe if the OS is booted from something after OF loads, it can pick up that we've got it connected to an XGA display...?

I just don't want this thread or this project to die now. We've come way too far!

[Maxwell Smart]

Well, I still haven't obtained an LCD or LG cable (if anyone has any deals, please respond or PM me) but I did find something that might be of interest. The software program Xpostfacto that allows people to install OS X on unsupported macs might have something to contribute, on their site (Other World Computing: OS X for Legacy Macs) they explain what is involved with getting an unsupported mac working:

1. Figure out how to write to its NVRAM.
2. Figure out what patches are needed to its Open Firmware drivers.
3. Figure out how to write to the partition table of its drives.
4. Figure out whether it has any devices that need drivers in Mac OS X (and write the drivers--well, preferably port them from somewhere).

Therefore, it seems like they definitely have some intimate knowledge of open firmware and other things that could greatly contribute to our project. I haven't had a chance to message one of the devs yet, but I think that someone should as this just might be the place to get help.

[gooser]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Look. I don't want to be a jerk, but would you please just shut the hell up?

The phrase "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" is an overused cliche, but it works well here. What's the point of posting if you can't provide any useful information or advice about this project...why do you even bother to comment on the thread?

The comment "it can't be done, but don't let that stop you" is just plain inconsiderate. It's not constructive or nice, and while I know that this the Internet, and I don't generally expect people to be considerate on the Internet, I really wish you'd quit with the sardonic comments. If you have anything helpful or truly encouraging to say to those of us actually working on this project, by all means do so. Otherwise, find another thread to troll.

i pride myself on doing things that can't be done, thought you'd be up to the challenge. if not then i apologize. anyway now-go to the web site iBook Clamshell - Home click on hardware, then das ibook display. it appears to list the cables you are looking for. also play with the little box on the lower left hand side. now as far as reading german goes i might say it can't be done but if anyone can do it you can. good luck.

[bund]

Originally Posted by gooser 

-go to the web site iBook Clamshell - Home click on hardware, then das ibook display. it appears to list the cables you are looking for. also play with the little box on the lower left hand side. now as far as reading german goes i might say it can't be done but if anyone can do it you can. good luck.

Hi gooser, that's my website - sorry for the german language

I just listed the Apple part numbers of three different Clamshell display cables from IBM/LG/Samsung

LCD Cable - IBM, Apple part No. 922-5087
LCD Cable - LG, Apple part No. 922-5368
LCD Cable - Samsung, Apple part No. 922-4769

[gooser]

oh well, i guess gooser gooses again.

[miocinq]

Originally Posted by miocinq 

Hi,

http://www.adhocconference.com/paper...kingKernel.pdf

miocinq

That genius Ryan Rempel talks about xpostfacto basics.

[accozzaglia]

A small tidbit of information possibly worth knowing:

The PowerBook G4 Ti 400MHz "Mercury/TiBook" model uses the same ATI Rage Mobility 128 (AGP 2x, 8MB VRAM) card installed with every Rev. C clamshell model. The native scan resolution on the TiBook is 1152x768 XGA+ and is capable of supporting an external VGA hardware device of up to 21 inches (probably CRT) at 24-bit colour resolution -- in both extended desktop and mirroring modes.

[edited later to say: adding an external 17" CRT at 32-bit 1024x768 SVGA resolution (with 85MHz vertical scan rate) works just fine in tandem to the TiBook monitor native resolution, having tried this for the first time this evening. Maybe the video card will cook itself sooner than otherwise, but if it wasn't designed to do this, then it wouldn't have allowed me to try the configuration. Short of the ROM variance, this appears to be identical ATI Rage Mobility 128 integrated-chip hardware as found in the Rev C iBook clamshell.]

[edited even later than the last edit to say: overview (see official features) for the ATI Rage Mobility 128 integrated chip, as shown on an older (spring 2002 -- thanks, Web Archive!) iteration of ati.com, now ati.amd.com :

· Single components graphics subsystem
· Brings RAGE 128 PRO technology to Notebooks
· Supports two completely independent UXGA digital displays [accozzaglia note: UXGA is 1600x1200]
· Improved visual quality 2D/3D rendering
· Enhanced TV-out - consumer electronics quality
· Comprehensive support for DirectX (including DX6 texture compression) and Open GL API's
· True 32-bit color support and improved 16-bit dithering
· ATI's innovative AES Power Management: extends battery life, ACPI compliant, meets Intel Power Guidelines
· Supports Win9x, Win NT, Win2000 and other major OS's
· Family of four compatible devices (RAGE MOBILITY P, M, M1, and MOBILITY 128)

Anyway, the capability is hiding in that Rev. C. First one to tap into it with an XGA LCD will be rewarded with a pitcher of your favourite beer. ]

* * *

The ROM revisions differ between the Rev C. clamshells and the TiBook:

113-XXXXX-112 == iBook clamshell "Rev C." 366/466
113-XXXXX-119 == TiBook 400/500

Of what relevance the code within these ROMs impact the XGA clamshell project is not really known yet. I don't know of a way to read the parameters of the configurations in these ROMs, or whether they're binaries which would first need to be decompiled.

Run with it, if you want. Just an observation I made during an academic work break.

[accozzaglia]

Quoted from TidBITS: The Incredible Shrinking iBook :

The iBook (Dual USB) display is, however, something to write home about - though still a 12.1-inch LCD, it now operates at a native resolution of 1024 by 768 pixels, instead of the 800 by 600 top resolution of the previous iBook models. That's a resolution of over 100 dots per inch, but attendees at the briefing say the display is sharp enough to pull it off. You can still use interpolation and scaling to get 800 by 600 or 640 by 480 if you really need those resolutions. The graphics remain driven by the ATI Rage Mobility 128 chip, but not the same one: this one is an ATI Rage Mobility 128M. The 128M model provides for the 1024 by 768 resolution, where the Rage Mobility 128 chip did not. The new 128M chip also has 3D graphics acceleration. Andrew Gore reported that, at the closed briefing, Apple executives said the Rage Mobility 128 provides the best trade-off between performance and power consumption at present. As before, the chip is backed by 8 MB of SDRAM graphics memory and sits on an AGP 2X dedicated graphics bus.

Hrm. This fails to address the capability engineered in the TiBook, which was equipped with the ATI Rage Mobility 128 (not-M). Based on XGA displaying correctly in a Ubuntu environment, I will contest that quoted assertion. It might come down to the ATI ROM, although I know nothing about it -- like I said in the previous post. This also means that I'm not getting my academic lit review completed by the morning. This qualifies me as a procrastinator.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by accozzaglia 

Hrm. This fails to address the capability engineered in the TiBook, which was equipped with the ATI Rage Mobility 128 (not-M). Based on XGA displaying correctly in an Ubuntu environment, I will contest that quoted assertion. It might come down to the ATI ROM, although I know nothing about it -- like I said in the previous post. This also means that I'm not getting my academic lit review completed by the morning. This qualifies me as a procrastinator.

Well, based on what MacTracker says, I think the author of that article is full of crap. For one thing, if the chip was literally hardware-limited to SVGA resolution, Ubuntu wouldn't be able to display at 1024x768. For another, I fired up trusty MacTracker, which gives no indication that the hardware was different between the Dual USB iBook and the FireWire clamshells. Not only that, but the same adapter was used with varying amounts of video RAM throughout the entire G3 iBook line.

I'm pretty much certain that this thing can do XGA in OS X - it's just a matter of fooling the Open Firmware that the logic board really is connected to an XGA display.

At least, that's what I'm hoping... Is this project history or is anyone else still interested in pressing on?

[Maxwell Smart]

I have a supposedly working LG cable that I have bought and is at my house, and I'm currently trying to work out a deal for the exact samsung panel required. I'll keep you guys updated.

[ruZZ.il]

hmm the suspense...
Anyway, hi. I'm.. the new kid? recently got around to booting up a 466 graphite that was... around. added a 512 stick.. etc.. its great.. anyway.. I like to take things apart too... so, consider me in I'm gonna venture out and see whats up with this samsung Q10's display.. it has a different connector.. so.. after i get that done, we'll see bout.. connecting it.. or something else.. anyway, anyone get around to overclocking the 466? I moved that one resistor up.. booted.. got the 'need to restart' screen.. got some promt.. 'boot mac' or something.. then dead.. tried pram, etc.. nada.. dead.. just the chime. moved the resistor back to its original spot and its back to life.. maybe I'll drop the clocking.. but this sounds like a good proj, so.. hi. I'm russ.

[shifuimam]

Welcome to the project ruZZ.il!

Depends on which resistor you moved. I believe some people have successfully overclocked the 466MHz clamshells, but I have no concrete evidence for that one. I haven't tried it myself because it's too risky - I don't want to fry my processor and ruin my laptop, especially after I've put so much work into making it better in other ways.

The LCD part of the project has kind of come to a standstill. The major players have become pretty busy as of late - I haven't had any free time myself, so it's kind of dead in the water right now. I have the right cable and possibly a compatible display; I just need to take apart my own iBook (the 300MHz blueberry I've been using definitely won't work - the video chip isn't good enough, I don't think) and play around with it. We've been halted by Open Firmware, so if you're skilled in that area, that's where we really need work/research.

Again - welcome to the project!

[Maxwell Smart]

I still can't find a suitable inexpensive Samsung LCD. Every time I get close I something happens that I can't end up using it or the guy throws it away etc etc. I still have the cable and am really trying to find an LCD but I can't devote a lot of money to it because I have spent enough as it is. Luckily I have a 466 so I won't have a problem with the graphics chip. Also, I saw a clam overclocking site and you have to move several resistors but there is an option for 500Mhz which I think would be such an awesome overclock as it's a nice even number and if we got the XGA it would really bring it up to almost feature parity with the 500Mhz White iBook.

[ruZZ.il]

thanks anyway.. I cant really say I that I could contribute to much of the programing side.. I terminate at java and matlab, though I'm willing to take anything apart. I've looked at the samsung screen I've got.. LTN121XF-L01, which uses the same cable as the duel USB ibook and since I'm not quit up to re-wiring and losing the cables I already have, I've got to get around to getting one (max, ironic ha? ).. shif.. you, or someone, mentioned a site with some cheap ones.. how did that work out?

otherwise.. bit about me.. well.. living in Israel and studying physics, so, I guess I don't really have that much time for all this right now either.. but.. ya know it beats differential equations any day

[randy.r]

I haven't given up yet. Was in the process of going through the libraries of Clamsilla and a 500mhz dual usb and listing the differences to see if a more knowlegable person could decipher anything out of it when the 500 died. Again. The thing won,t recognise the hard drive or OS 10 cd but it looks like it will take 9. Guess I could put 9 back on both and try again.
Of course I have lost the notes I did have with the exception of one on the Boot ROM versions.

Clamshell Boot ROM version $0003.33f3, 500mhz-$0004.20f4
Mean anything to anyone?

I ran across several other interesting differences dealing with displays, pixels,resolutions and such but I will have to regather this information as time allows.

Anyone have any other ideas a simple fellow like myself could try ?

[randy.r]

Check out http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_do_..._mac_os_x.html Looks like something that might be used.

[duck]

I've watched this thread on and off, and I notice no-one has mentioned the 1920x1200 Powerbook G4 upgrade.. They had some similar problems and managed to solve it. Check it out here - Anyone interested in a Hi-def (1920 x 1200) mod for PB/MBP? - Mac Forums

[shifuimam]

Thanks, duck! It's a lot to read through - I'm still looking for the part where he says how he got the resolution to work.

Interestingly enough, I just picked up again on this project today. I finally got the motivation to disassemble my 466Mhz tangerine iBook to hook up the LCD I got off eBay.

No dice. I think it was randy.r who successfully used an LG LVDS cable from a clamshell with a 12" LCD from a white iBook G3/G4. I connected my components (my LCD is quite similar to the iBook G3/G4 LCD, except that two grounding wires are missing from the connection), and I'm getting a grey screen. Sometimes a green bar shows up 3/4 down from the top, but it eventually disappears - I suppose that's when the OS X desktop has loaded up. I don't have my video out cable with me to hook it up to a TV, so I may be at a standstill for the weekend.

When I move the LVDS cable around, the green bar sometimes reappears, along with other colors (sometimes). Maybe my LVDS cable is bad? I bought it from a certified Apple reseller, so it should have been tested as functional by them before they sold it...

It could also be that the logic board of the LCD has crapped out, which is probably more likely, as the LCD was purchased untested/as-is from eBay.

Perhaps the ONLY 12" LCD we can use is from a 500Mhz white iBook G3.

I should add that if I do an option+boot, I get a blue screen in the upper left of the display, but with no text or images. If I do an option+O+F+boot, I get a solid grey screen (instead of the stripey grey screen I get any other time), but again, no text.

Curiouser and curiouser...

[imitchellg5]

Thanks for all of the updates guys. I'm picking up a clammy soon and this has been very helpful.

[duck]

The LTN121X1 in the iBook G3/500 is usually the Samsung LTN121X1-L01 .. this panel is pin and signal compatible with pretty much every other 1024x768 12.1 inch LCD made after 2001, such as the LG Phillips LP121X04, so you should be able to use any iBook G3 (dual usb) or iBook G4 LCD panel.

By 2001, laptop shipments started ramping up so much that manufacturers started demanding a standard connection for the LCDs, so they can mix and match during production and so they don't need to use different cable/sheild assemblies like you've found with the clamshell iBooks

[Waragainstsleep]

While the white iBook panels are pin compatible, their connectors at the LCD end and therefore the LVDS cables are not always the same. But they are the same at the logic board end.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

While the white iBook panels are pin compatible, their connectors at the LCD end and therefore the LVDS cables are not always the same. But they are the same at the logic board end.

It's the other way around - the LCD end is pretty standard, but the logic board end is different. You can't pull a 12" LCD from an Averatec laptop and stick it in an iBook using the cable that's attached to it, even if the LCD end of the cable fits.

We've solved the cable problem - the LG clamshell cable works with 12" LCDs with the small white 20-pin connector, at least as far as 12" iBook LCDs are concerned. My 12" LCD is essentially identical to the white iBook LCD, but for some reason it's not working.

Not sure what to do from here...at least randy.r was able to see the Apple boot screen, even if the resolution was wrong. I can't even get that far with mine.

[taigen]

Hi list, I'm new to this forum, but have been reading up on everything I can do to my clamshell over the past month or so. I purchased an indigo 366mhz firewire from ebay and have thus far installed a cdrw/dvd drive, upped the RAM to 576MB, added airport, and done what I can with software to get max performance. I love the clam ibook and see it as a project and an enjoyable exercise to make it as functional as possible. In this spirit I have obtained a 466mhz logic board which i am attempting to overclock.

I would like some feedback from those more experienced. I have followed the directions found at homepage.mac.com/ytotsuka/FW-e.html and moved the resistor R62 to the R63 position. With the computer reconnected, this resulted in startup, but the screen did not come on. I moved the resistor back, and everything was ok. Next I tried moving the resistor as above again, but this time bridging the gap where it used to be with solder. The machine now works, but i cannot determine if it is actually overclocked - both system profiler and overclockers helper give normal readings. I suspect that it is still running at 466mhz since the startup with a blank screen did happen. Any ideas or advice?
Thanks, Taigen

[shifuimam]

Welcome, taigen!

I'm just not sure what to tell you about overclocking. Nobody on this project has tried it, mostly in the interest of trying to preserve our motherboards/processors.

You could check out this tutorial here and see if that might provide more information.

Hope that helps!

[shifuimam]

I found someone in the marketplace selling a used 12" 500MHz iBook LCD for $50, so I snapped that baby up and will be starting this project again as soon as it arrives. Hopefully I can make some headway!

I still can't find any details in that forum thread duck posted on how to force the new resolution on the new display. If anyone finds any insight into this issue, post ASAP.

[miocinq]

Salut taigen,
You are right. Bridging with solder is an aquivalent for a resistor set. Your Clamy runs now most probably at 466MHz again. The 750 CXe v2.4 runs in the last iMacs G3 at 700MHz and 100MHz busspeed, so ocl should work in the Clamshell. Perhaps raising the bus to 100 MHz and CPU to 500 (multiplier: 5x) is a good start. I overclocked a 300MHz Rev A to 400MHz without problems, but you may have failed in your first attempt due to heat issues.
Once I ocled a G3beige with Bus 83MHz and CPU 456Mhz (CPU swap from a G3bw300) which ran rocksolid only after swapping the cooler for a G3bw450 one with a small fan attached. The Clamies don´t have any real cooling, so maybe there lies the reason. You could build an open setup with a fan and try successfully.
Hope this edguess can help...

[ruZZ.il]

taigen, I basically did the same, (albeit with an oversized solde iron.. but yeah.... )
I closed it up, it booted to the usually first screen.. chime.. then i got some prompt to something.. unfortnatly that I didnt note, but got past it.. then the screen went blank and then wa only able to boot with a chime and blank screen.. I just went back to the original configuration though and was glad to have my 466 back.. so, I'm there. still keen with the screen thing but can hardly get around to it... I've found myself looking for headphone amp parts with what time I got. anyway, I just ended up shorting the spot where the resistor originally was to get it back.. although I have managed to get an old usb key wi-fi adaptor out of its case and snug into the spot under teh keyboard with some wires discretely hooked up the the usb port.. when I open it again I plan to reroute the usb plug through a really small 2 port usb hub modded to fit under the keyboard too.. and have the one go back to the plug and the other for the wi-fi.. was fun, works, and beats the 100$ card I couldnt find here in Israel

[taigen]

Hi folks! And thanks for the great replies. Good photo Ruzz, I will be sure and photograph anything else I try. I am still at the same place myself with this. What I plan do do next is to try the same overclock on my 366mhz logic board and see if that works. My main aim is to get website videos to playback well and maybe the higher bus speed and overclock to around 450mhz will enable the 366 to outperform the 466 in this respect? I'll soon find out by pitting them against each other in a youtube playback competition! I already get these videos to playback well by downloading them with youtubeX, and conterverting them using the ipod convertor 'isquint'. This works well on the 366 but is a tad time consuming. The 466 as standard works with youtube if the vids are played at their smallest size.
Another mod i amthinking about - linked to the usb mods - is to try and fit a second usb port where the useless old modem port now resides - think about it?!

Taigen

[rach]

I was able to get a 1024x768 resolution on a Clamshell using Mac OSX once but i don't think that this will really help you.
It happened when i upgraded my HD i bent down one of the pins for the display by mistake and when i connected i had a resolution of 1024x768 and 800x600 as my display options. It wasn't very pretty though as it was a bit jittery and i couldn't fit everything on the page.

[shifuimam]

That IS interesting - that would lead me to think that the right data could be passed to OS X, perhaps through a hardware modification.

I'll start playing around when my 12" LCD arrives!!

[OwossoBorn]

After reading through this thread (docu-drama) I I've been inspired to update this old 300Mhz blueberry clamshell.

I have already installed a 512MB stick of RAM, slapped in an airport card I had laying around and updated it to OS9.2.2. I ordered a new 60GB 7200rpm hd and want to install either OS10.3.9 or 10.4.9, whichever will give the snappiest performance. Having a 466Mhz firewire equipped logic board would be a great addition to this (little?) project, and make installing OSX that much easier. If any of you out there have an extra 466Mhz se logic board, I'd be interested in taking it from you for a low low price. My dremel is itchin' to cut a firewire hole into that soft plastic! -speaking of which, all of the posted pics of the firewire case mod are not to be found?

If anymore headway is made on the 1024x768 resolution, I'll gladly jump on the bandwagon and lend a hand. I am good with electronics and would have fun poking around OpenFirmware for possible resolution hacks. I could see adding a physically larger screen if that's what it takes. It looks like the lid's screen cutout could be made possibly another 1/2" wider on each side. ie.1" wider total, allowing a possible 13" diagonal screen (is the 8mb video card limited to 1024x768?). It seems all of the investigation into alternative screens were limited to the same physical dimensions. Has anyone looked into slightly bigger screens for cable continuity? Shoot, I've been hankerin' to make something out of carbon fiber. How cool would it be to make the same shaped lid, only slightly wider to accommodate a larger screen? It'd probably be lighter too. After reading that post of the HD screen on the 15" powerbook, it's a whole new playing field.

BTW, I downloaded and burned a few ubuntu edgey live cds and can't get any of them to boot on the 300Mhz. When I run 'check-powerpc' it tells me 'not enough video RAM.' I though others had ubuntu running on this model logic board? It works on my 500Mhz powerbook, so I know the cds are good.

Thanks for the great info and great reading!

[shifuimam]

Welcome to the project, OwossoBorn!

Not sure what the actual limitations are of the 8MB ATI card - we've confirmed that it can do XGA, but that's as far as we got.

I don't remember if I was ever able to boot into Ubuntu when I still had the 300MHz board in my own iBook, so I'm not sure what your problem is. Perhaps you could try an older version? You could also try Yellow Dog Linux, which does have a free version.

The problem with a larger screen is twofold - the curve of the back display plastics, and the screw holes in the four corners of the display that hold the two plastic pieces for the lid together. That's not to say it isn't doable, though - I think a 13" screen is as large as you would want to go.

Sorry about the picture links - I was hosting on Zoto when I wrote the first few posts, and they recently switched to a paid-members-only scheme and were planning on disabling any free user accounts. They must have finally done that. I'll switch hosting to Flickr or PicasaWeb this weekend if I have a chance.

Feel free to do any investigation on your own for this project! We need someone with some solid OF skills to figure out why OS X won't allow XGA when Ubuntu will.

[OwossoBorn]

I'll look for an older version of ubuntu and the yellow dog you mentioned. Sounds like a brand of beer.

I seem to recall a post on some site (may have been the HD screen on the 15" guy) where the person figured out what the screen was announcing itself as, ie.model # string, and then created a plist file called the same thing with the resolutions listed in the file. I'll have to re-read a few pages back to make sure I'm not confusing this thread with it. When he booted back into OSX, it loaded up the correct file and was able to change the resolution.

More snooping to be done...

[gazza]

I'm a bit of a newbie with this. Just received my iBook Clamshell SE (366) and am wanting to upgrade the RAM. I could get a 265mb stick for £28, or a 512mb stick for £50. Should I just get the 256 (totalling 320mb of ram for my clammy) or get the 512? Is there a noticable difference with my slowish processor?

Any suggestions would be great!

[Tangerine-n-Lime]

Go with the 512 stick. OSX will use it, and if you got the 256 you would always wonder how much faster it would be with the 512!

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by OwossoBorn 

I'll look for an older version of ubuntu and the yellow dog you mentioned. Sounds like a brand of beer.

I seem to recall a post on some site (may have been the HD screen on the 15" guy) where the person figured out what the screen was announcing itself as, ie.model # string, and then created a plist file called the same thing with the resolutions listed in the file. I'll have to re-read a few pages back to make sure I'm not confusing this thread with it. When he booted back into OSX, it loaded up the correct file and was able to change the resolution.

More snooping to be done...

I know that there's a plist file available in the x86 pre-release of Tiger that people used to force the right resolution on non-Apple hardware, but I don't believe it exists in Panther or the Tiger universal release. Of course, if what you're thinking of is something different, that's even better!

I will try to re-post the pics of my firewire mod this afternoon.

[accozzaglia]

This is my brief bump for the thread, having been gone for over two months with uni and all.

I had to set aside this project once demands were coming from elsewhere. In the meantime, however, I took apart my key lime 466, which I acquired in February, to up the stock hard drive to a Hitachi 7K100 (7200rpm, 100gb) drive, which considerably sped up performance. It also loves power, and the 4000MAh battery in there is about 65% of original capacity.

Also, during the data transfer to the new drive, I came across a very ugly discovery: the firewire port can only charge devices, not connect to devices. This was something the eBay seller didn't mention (whether he knew it or not). I inspected the logic board closely and compared it against where online references discussing fried firewire ports. My board wasn't burnt, toasted, or melted, so the culprit was never found. So now I have to add a replacement 466 logic board to the list of "iBook 500MHz LCD", "4800MAh battery", "Pioneer 16x DVD-RW", etc. :/

So, no, this is not helpful to this thread, per se, but it is to say that I'm kiiiinda back into the swing of things here and want to pick up where I left off, time and money willing. So, yeah. Hi again, all!

[ajprice]

Originally Posted by accozzaglia 

Also, during the data transfer to the new drive, I came across a very ugly discovery: the firewire port can only charge devices, not connect to devices. This was something the eBay seller didn't mention (whether he knew it or not). I inspected the logic board closely and compared it against where online references discussing fried firewire ports. My board wasn't burnt, toasted, or melted, so the culprit was never found. So now I have to add a replacement 466 logic board to the list of "iBook 500MHz LCD", "4800MAh battery", "Pioneer 16x DVD-RW", etc. :/

Just checking here, but what 'devices' did you connect to the firewire? If it was a newish iPod like a nano or 5g, then that won't connect over firewire, but will charge, they connect and charge over USB 2.0.

I only mention it because several people have wondered and complained about the loss of firewire syncing with new iPods.

[OwossoBorn]

Hey,

I am still waiting on a 466Mhz logic board via ebay but have stumbled across (ie.broke) a screen/cable issue on my 500Mhz Powerbook Ti that is possibly leading me down the same path of having to hack screen parameters somewhere, either in a kext/plist file or open firmware. I was replacing the screen and while gluing the screen back together, the epoxy welded two of the fine wires to the inside of the display. After remounting, everything was great....until I closed the screen and stretched those two wires too far (found the issue after re-cracking the lid apart). Apparently those two wires are the ones the display uses to tell the computer what make/model it is. I would have used the old cable, but the end that plugs into the powerbook's logic board is hosed. Luckily (?) the screen still operates, but now OSX won't allow me to change brightness. There is no brightness control in the displays control panel either. The resolution is showing up correctly as 1152x768 however. If I boot into OS9.2.2, I can change brightness ok, just not in OSX. If I boot into Ubuntu 7.04, I get brightness control, but the highest resolution is 1024x768 and I get a nice 2" vertical black bar on the right, where Ubuntu thinks the display stops. Last weird thing going on is that ever so often, when I reboot, the display just stays black. Shining a light through the back of the display does not reveal any screen activity at all. It's as if the computer doesn't think there is a display connected at all and so doesn't bother using it. The computer boots up and I can hit the power button and enter to shut down, so I know it's booting up. Clearing the PRAM fixes the blank screen and gets me back to a pre-dimmed one.

I've been searching around and found these two apps that allow you to force different resolutions. Not what I need for my powerbook issue, but it may come in handy with forcing your ibook to 1024x768?

DisplayConfigX 1.09 – Mac OS X – VersionTracker
SwitchResX 3.7.8 – Mac OS X – VersionTracker

Let me know if either of those work for any of you.
If anyone knows how to force the brightness control in OSX or force 1152x768 in Ubuntu, please pass it along.

EDIT: I just installed SwitchResX in my friend's 15" 867Mhz powerbook and it allowed me to create a new resolution of 1280x960,. After rebooting, I was able to choose that new resolution in the displays control panel as well as in the display menu bar item. since the max resolution of this built in display is 1280x854, the extra pixel area manifested itself "underneath" the visible area of the screen. I could just barely make out the tips of my dock icons when moused over. Since the max resolution of the screen you are trying to use is actually 1024x768, you should be able to create that resolution, reboot, then choose it in displays control panel. Rather than keeping your existing 800x600 box, it should theoretically expand to fill the right and bottom edges of your screen since that's its native resolution.

Lemme know if it works.

[hemant]

I have been monitoring this thread for a while now. My problem though is with a Titanium powerbook. The screen in my Gigabit Ethernet Titanium went kaput and I was handed over an LCD from a DVI Titanium. The connectors were all the same but the DVI LCD had a better resolution (1280 x 854 vs 1158 x 768). Now when I boot everything works except I have the black band showing up in the right and I get another copy of my screen towards the bottom. I don't much care about the better resolution and would be just happy if my desktop spans across the entire LCD. I have tried using DisplayConfigX and SwitchResX which lets me create the new resolution (sometimes) but still the new screen config does not span across the entire screen. I'm hoping that someone comes up with a solution to this problem soon.

[OwossoBorn]

Hermant,
I was reading through the pdf manual for SwitchRes last night and found it very interesting. Have you tried playing with the porch settings? Apparently, just changing the resolution alone would not expand the viewing area on the physical screen unless you also reduced the back porch (may not be called "back" porch, going off memory) by the same amount. So, it seems to me that if you increase the width from 1152 to 1280, an increase of 128 pixels, you would also have to decrease the back porch by 128 pixels to "make room" for your larger resolution. The manual clearly shows top, left, right, bottom porches and explains how to increase/decrease sizes. It also mentions that most LCDs like to see 60hz refresh rate. The manual does say that this is a timely process, with lots of tweaks/reboots to get it the way you want. The ability to do it at all is pretty cool.

For what it's worth, I don't view any of the hacks experimented within this thread as solutions to problems. To me, they're more like mini inventions/discoveries to make something better than it was originally designed to be. New frontier sort of thing. Higher resolution displays were not meant to be on these machines. Not necessarily because a company wanted to 'fix' something at a certain size, but probably because the higher resolution screens simply didn't exist when the original hardware/software/firmware was created.

Give it another go. Create your new, larger resolution with smaller porch settings and save/reboot. Upon logging back in, you should see your new resolution in the Displays control panel where you can then select it as your resolution.

---

To follow up on my post above, I was successful in tweaking the xorg.conf file in Ubuntu so that I now get a full 1152x768 resolution on my powerbook. (remember, my computer has no idea what lcd I have connected) Also, on the OSX side of the coin, I found a utility called LightMe that allows me to once again turn up/down my brightness, even though no brightness control shows up in Displays control panel and the default f1/f2 keys don't do anything. (I assigned LightMe's controls to CTRL+f1 & CTRL+f2 so I'd feel like I'm actually using the powerbook's built in feature)

Lastly, I won a 466Mhz logic board on ebay today!!! (sorry to any of you that may have bid on it as well) So once I get that little baby, I can dremel out (where are those original pics?!?) the case. Next would be to find a new display (maybe larger than 12" ) and cable and possibly a DVD burner.

-=Randy

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by OwossoBorn 

Hermant,
I was reading through the pdf manual for SwitchRes last night and found it very interesting. Have you tried playing with the porch settings? Apparently, just changing the resolution alone would not expand the viewing area on the physical screen unless you also reduced the back porch (may not be called "back" porch, going off memory) by the same amount. So, it seems to me that if you increase the width from 1152 to 1280, an increase of 128 pixels, you would also have to decrease the back porch by 128 pixels to "make room" for your larger resolution. The manual clearly shows top, left, right, bottom porches and explains how to increase/decrease sizes. It also mentions that most LCDs like to see 60hz refresh rate. The manual does say that this is a timely process, with lots of tweaks/reboots to get it the way you want. The ability to do it at all is pretty cool.

This is really interesting. However, SwitchResX isn't freeware, right? I would wonder if we can figure out what system files/settings it tweaks to do its thing...

I just got my 12" 500MHz G3 display last weekend, so hopefully I can start working on this project again soon.

...probably because the higher resolution screens simply didn't exist when the original hardware/software/firmware was created.

This is one thing that bugs me about these iBooks. Apple didn't have to give them an SVGA display - there were already PowerBooks by that point that had XGA displays. I think they wanted to dumb down the iBook as much as they could get away with, so that they could market it as a "consumer" notebook that couldn't have a chance at replacing a PowerBook for someone in a "professional" environment.

[OwossoBorn]

I received my 466Mhz logic board the other day and it was attached to a graphite bottom! I guess I'll have to find something else to cut up with my dremel. I took everything else out of my 300Mhz clamshell and populated the new graphite bottom and booted her up just fine. While I was in there, I jotted down the model number of my lcd and it was different than any mentioned so far, a Samsung LT121SU-123. This lcd is also used in the Sony Vaio pcg-f610 and possibly the Vaio pcg-f801. I found the Samsung specification pdf for the screen and the screen connector is made by JAE, model F1-SEB20P-HF with a mating connector of F1-SE20MR or F1-SE20M. The cable model# is close to the one randy.r used, HPU280010200U02 If any other XGA screens with 1024x768 use that connector (and also the following pinouts) we'd be set.

Pinouts for the screen connector, 14 out of the possible 20 connections actually have wires, which I've marked with a green 'x' :
(These seem to be pin for pin identical to the Samsung LTN121x-L01 screen, couldn't find the spec sheet on the LTN121x-L02, although the pins on the LTN121x1-L01 are named slightly different, they seem to be the same function)
x 1 Vdd Power Supply +3.3v
x 2 Vdd Power Supply +3.3v
x 3 GND Power Ground
x 4 GND Power Ground
x 5 Y0M Receiver Signal(-)
x 6 Y0P Receiver Signal(+)
x 7 GND Power Ground
x 8 Y1M Receiver Signal(-)
x 9 Y1P Receiver Signal(+)
x 10 GND Power Ground
x 11 Y2M Receiver Signal(-)
x 12 Y2P Receiver Signal(+)
x 13 GND Power Ground
x 14 CLKOUTM clock Signal(-)
x 15 CLKOUTP clock Signal(+)
x 16 GND Power Ground
x 17 N.C.
x 18 N.C.
x 19 GND Power Ground
x 20 GND Power Ground

Each wire seems to be regular stranded wire with plastic casing and not tiny coaxials. Each data pair is twisted for Common Mode Rejection of noise it may pick up along the length of it, just like Cat5 or standard microphone cabling. Each wire has a tiny crimped on connector pin, inserted into the plastic connector. It looks like I could easily pop each one out and possibly populate another connector like previous posters in this thread have done. The connector used on the LTN121x1-L01 screen is a DF-19L-20P-1H made by Hirose. However, It doesn't list the mating connector model # like the LT121SU-123 pdf does. I'm assuming the connector listed is the male connector soldered to the screen pcb and the mating connector is the one crimped/soldered/jammed onto the end of the cable. When I searched google, it suggested removing the first '-'. DF19L-20P-1H had a lot more hits.

Here's a shot of the wires going into the back end of the F1-SE20MR or F1-SE20M plastic connector of my HPU280010200U02 cable in my clamshell and a closeup of the cable model #.




I can find and post the links to the LT121SU-123 and LTN121x1-L01 screen specification pdfs if anyone wants them. I printed them out but didn't keep the URLs. They are about 23 pages long.

The LTN121x1-L01 spec sheet shows the first three data pairs as Red, Green, Blue and possibly the last pair (clk + & -) as being Hsync/Vsync. I say possibly because they are listed as being the same pair as Blue, yet the last data pair box is empty. I think it was just a typo. It would seem that every screen's spec sheet I've looked at so far has the same number of data pairs & same layout of power/gnds. It seems that as long as the correct plastic connector was used, then almost any 12.1" 1024x768 screen would work. I'm going to browse around ebay for a while and see what sort of trouble I can get myself into. I already have a 20GB drive partitioned to dual boot OSX/Ubuntu, so worse comes to worse, I can simply run Ubuntu. (OS9 died as soon as I installed Ubuntu....damn)

OH! I found a CDRW/DVD drive which would make my updates (along with the screen tweakage) complete.
Well, I had been thinking of a jet pack... but that's next week.

UPDATE: I just won an LTN121X1-L02 screen on ebay and should have it by the end of the week.

[ruZZ.il]

Owo, respect.
I've been too caught up since I thought I'd start here.. physics.. though I think I'm gonna continue in electrical/onic engineering been collecting parts for another headphone amp too.. fun fun glad to see its still kinda going somewhere though cool guys!
btw I got a dysfunctional washing machine for parts if you need any for that jet pack.. the dryer is dead too... ugh.. but parts yeah

[OwossoBorn]

What's the model # of the dryer?

[OwossoBorn]

I got the Toshiba SD-R2512 DVD/CDRW drive this morning and just finished hooking it up. Was not easy to get the old drive's metal bracket that had been stuck on with very stubborn double sided sticky tape off, but I managed. I have since watched my first DVD (A Bugs Life) on it (found a link to download the Apple DVD player 2.7 for OS9.1 and above, didn't have to re-install OS) and successfully booted Tech Tool Pro and ran through it's tests with flying colors.

I was not able to boot any of the Ubuntu Live CDs I made, all edgy 6.10 ppc (burned three times at three dif speeds in case the old clamshell didn't work with the high speed iso creation.), that all used to at least get 80% through booting with the old clamshell cd rom drive. I can see them each when booting with option key, but when I select one, it churns a bit and then refreshes the option screen. After that, I can't select the ubuntu cd anymore and have to choose OS9. WTF? How am I supposed to get into ubuntu to verify that my new screen is connected properly and display 1024x768 if I can't boot off the darn thing? I do have an HD prepared in another machine that dual boots ubuntu Feisty 7.04 ppc/osx10.4.9, but I haven't put it in yet. I'm wondering now if that ubuntu will boot either? Hate to have to take the whole thing apart again to slap in that drive when I'm not ready to have it stay in there.

New screen should be here tomorrow or Friday...More soon.

[shifuimam]

I hate to break it to you, but if you're using anything except a combo drive pulled from another Apple laptop (they all use the same form factor with different brackets attached), booting off some discs simply isn't going to happen.

xcelr8yourmac.com has a compatibility list, and many people have succeeded in getting the SD-R2512 to boot off non-OS X discs. I have found that my drive (I don't remember the model off the top of my head) will not boot off any Linux LiveCD. This may become an issue for me when I hook up my 12" iBook LCD to my clamshell. Allegedly, the drive problem has something to do with the firmware on the drive. It's not the same as OF on a Mac (which is a bit like the BIOS on a Windows machine) - optical drives have their own firmware. In some cases, firmware updates might be required to a DVD burner to allow it to read a certain brand of DVDs. You can also sometimes flash an earlier model of a brand of DVD burner to increase its maximum burn speed.

The problem with the Apple drives is that it's impossible to flash a non-Apple drive with the Apple firmware. Apple did release a firmware update for slot-loading drives in the titanium PowerBooks, but it won't run on non-Apple drives. The firmware is low-level enough that you can't install it yourself, either.

I'm wondering if you might be able to boot off a firewire CD drive. If you have a firewire external hard drive case with removable sides (like the metal gear box), you can hook up a 5.25" optical drive to it to use for testing. I've done that before with a Mac using a USB drive to read stuff, but if older Macs can boot off firewire hard drives, I don't see why they wouldn't boot off firewire optical drives.

Good luck!