[rt]

When is 10.2.1 going to be released to the public?

[Cipher13]

Indeed, when?

10.2 has some *major* flaws... if 10.2.1 doesn't fix the networking issues, I'm gonna have to go back to 10.1.5, or ditch X entirely.

[starman]

6D50 was just seeded.

I'd post about it but I don't want to start another "it's illegal" thread .

Mike

[dwishbone]

i want 10.2.1 to have a true NetBIOS feature.
the windows networking in Jaguar works great for me. the SMB/CIFS network browser works flawlessly. the only problem with the windows file sharing I see is that a PC can not see Mac shares in its Network Neighborhood since the Mac does not actually use NetBIOS as such.
(If I am just missing this feature in Jag someone please explain how to enable it.)
I have no problem entering the IP of my Mac, its good security actually, but I'd still like the option.

[rt]

On a scale of 1 to 10....how major is the 10.2.1 update/bug fix?

Overall I love 10.2 but have had problems w/ some prefs sticking (especially with Display Calibration when simply refuses to stay put after reboot).

[KaosDG]

I just hope they make it easier or somehow document how to get Jag to authenticate to an Active Directory.
I've been messing with this for days, and I can't get it to work.
However, now any Mac appplication that requires "authentication" to do anything keeps looking at my windows server for permissions

[piracy]

[i give up.]

[JHromadka]

Apple's waiting a few weeks because of all the bitching that people did when 10.0.0 came out and there was an update within a few days.

[MadBrowser]

A built number was here. It is now gone.

[piracy]

[once again, I give up]

[MadBrowser]

Yeah, I have a buddy on ADC. He told me the build number. He's a bad man. Oh well.

[PubGuy]

Piracy -- will 10.2.1 address the cross-platform CD burning issue?

[SJ]

Hi guys,

I just wanted you guys in on a little secret...

Every time threads like this pop up, where specific build numbers are mentioned, Apple gets pissed.

You know what happenes then...

All of the guys that are working hard to make sure the next release will be bug free (this included Apple engineers and outside testers) get a new arse ripped for them by the seeding managers. So the next time a release is ready to roll, it gets tested less because Apple thinks that as soon as they seed something, it ends up on these boards.

Less testing means lower quality software.

The fact that someone has posted specific builds means he is a d.i.ck.h.e.a.d. It doesn't make him cool.

Bottom line...

If you want software that works right first time, STOP F.U.C.K.I.N.G TALKING ABOUT IT HERE!

[Oneota]

Originally posted by SJ:
Hi guys,

I just wanted you guys in on a little secret...

Every time threads like this pop up, where specific build numbers are mentioned, Apple gets pissed.

You know what happenes then...

All of the guys that are working hard to make sure the next release will be bug free (this included Apple engineers and outside testers) get a new arse ripped for them by the seeding managers. So the next time a release is ready to roll, it gets tested less because Apple thinks that as soon as they seed something, it ends up on these boards.

Less testing means lower quality software.

The fact that someone has posted specific builds means he is a d.i.ck.h.e.a.d. It doesn't make him cool.

Bottom line...

If you want software that works right first time, STOP F.U.C.K.I.N.G TALKING ABOUT IT HERE!

Yeah, right. Like Apple really gives a rat's hairy butt about what gets said here.

[SJ]

Originally posted by Oneota:


Yeah, right. Like Apple really gives a rat's hairy butt about what gets said here.

You have obviously never been part of an apple seeding group. Plus, the fact that there are quite a few Apple employees POSTING on these boards (Hi piracy, Sal and others!) means nothing to you?

[KidRed]

So the 10 people who talk about build #'s make a multi-billion dollar company test builds less before they are released?

[SJ]

Originally posted by KidRed:
So the 10 people who talk about build #'s make a multi-billion dollar company test builds less before they are released?

The 10 people that post about it, then the ten of thousands of people that read what has been posted... Yes.

What happens is some developer decides to post the readme, or the bug fix list to a forum like this. Apple sees it and consiquently doesn't release a detailed list of bug fixes again.

This hurts the developers as well as the seeding teams.

[chris_h]

Originally posted by SJ:

What happens is some developer decides to post the readme, or the bug fix list to a forum like this. Apple sees it and consiquently doesn't release a detailed list of bug fixes again.

This hurts the developers as well as the seeding teams.

Then apple is being a big baby.

Fvck them, some people are still waiting for sh!t they payed for (like FTP in the finder).

Talking about bugfix releases doesn't hurt them in any way... It is what we, their loyal customers want.

Sometimes apple disappoints me. This is the kind of thing that even microsoft is better at.

But I'm probably just pissed that my iMac is refusing to boot from any CD except the OSX installer (need to install classic).

[mrtew]

WHY would Apple care if people on these boards talk about bug fixes and new releases. It just doesn't make sense. WHY would they care?

[israces]

and it makes puppies cry

[SJ]

Originally posted by mrtew:
WHY would Apple care if people on these boards talk about bug fixes and new releases. It just doesn't make sense. WHY would they care?

1. Apple is very secretive about everything anyway.

2. If something is fixed/modified and a pre-release build but doesn't make it into the final all those people that read that it was fixed are going to bitch and moan.

3. There might be references to unannounced products in the pre-release which Apple doesn't want everyone to know about. (It might spoil a great surprise!)

[chris_h]

Originally posted by SJ:


1. Apple is very secretive about everything anyway.

2. If something is fixed/modified and a pre-release build but doesn't make it into the final all those people that read that it was fixed are going to bitch and moan.

Please, try to make less sense. My head doesn't hurt enough already.

Originally posted by SJ:


3. There might be references to unannounced products in the pre-release which Apple doesn't want everyone to know about. (It might spoil a great surprise!)

Lame.

[SJ]

Originally posted by chris_h:


Then apple is being a big baby.

Fvck them, some people are still waiting for sh!t they payed for (like FTP in the finder).

Talking about bugfix releases doesn't hurt them in any way... It is what we, their loyal customers want.

Sometimes apple disappoints me. This is the kind of thing that even microsoft is better at.

They may be a big baby, but if you want to play in their sand-box, you play by their rules.

Granted their were quite a few problems with 10.2, but it comes back to my original comments that if everyone hadn't pirated Jaguar, it would quite probably have been tested by more official Apple beta testers and those problems would have been found BEFORE it was finished for duplication. You guys are really hurting yourselves by talking/posting information about pre-release stuff.

Just because all Coke-Cola customers want Coke to make a cherry flavoured space ship, doesn't mean they (Coke) are going to.

Finally though, if you really want to be part of the testing fun... go here http://appleseed.apple.com and sign up to be an offical seed site.

[k2man]

Once again, the thread drifts completely off topic...

[foamy]

Originally posted by SJ:


1. Apple is very secretive about everything anyway.

That's Apple's problem.

2. If something is fixed/modified and a pre-release build but doesn't make it into the final all those people that read that it was fixed are going to bitch and moan.

You mean all 12 people who really care enough to bitch and moan about it? 99.99% of Mac users have no clue that there is an OSX-General Discussion forum. Of the remaining 0.01% that read this forum, 10% of those might care; hence 99.999% are unaffected by what doesn't make it from prerelease to release. Heck, 99.9% of mac users don't know macnn.com exists!

3. There might be references to unannounced products in the pre-release which Apple doesn't want everyone to know about. (It might spoil a great surprise!)

I can't think of an example of this off the top of my head, so please enlighten me as to what prerelease software (which has subsequently been released, and thus doesn't violate NDA) that was specifically mentioned in a seed of OSX.

There are tons of "features" that have appeared, later to be yanked. Apparently this is so that in the absence of any compelling hardware announcements, Stevie Boy can try to woo the crowd at MW events with windows that 'minimize in place'. Oooh. Or perhaps windows that can be flung to the side of the screen where they stick. Ahhh. There are many more.

Since many Apple employees read this forum and since piracy works at Apple and has broken his/her NDA on numerous occasions by talking about not talking about prerelease seeds of OSX--the most recent being a day or two ago in a post mentioning that FTP in the finder is "not a high priority" at Apple--let me say the following.

Apple. FTP in the finder would be great. Fix it or yank it. Oh, and please, for the love of God, spend a few less coding hours making more gooey GUI animations and instead, fix the little things like...oh...window resizing, which is an embarassment

I do love the ability to have my quicktime movies continue playing while undergoing the genie animation into the dock!!! I even love it more that a key combination can slow this process down to see it in all its gooey glory!!! NOT. Talk about a completely and utterly useless "feature" that serves no purpose other than garnering a few ego-stroking "ooohs" and "aahs" during a keynote address.

[chris_h]

Originally posted by k2man:
Once again, the thread drifts completely off topic...

this thread was off topic ass soon ass it started... starman apparently has information but pre-empted the jackasses by being a jackass himself, or so it would seem.

Originally posted by SJ:

but it comes back to my original comments that if everyone hadn't pirated Jaguar, it would quite probably have been tested by more official Apple beta testers and those problems would have been found BEFORE it was finished for duplication. You guys are really hurting yourselves by talking/posting information about pre-release stuff.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

If I actually thought apple was that lame I'd trade in for a PC.

But then, your post made no sense whatsoever.

[brainchild2b]

sj, the only person who cares is you. Get out of this forum if you don't like it. It's not your job to moderate or tell others what to talk about.

The forum has moderators and if apple has a problem they can contact the moderators. Now go away and get back to fliping your burgers cuz i'm getting hungry...

not much has changed in 6d51

classic is broken and disk copy. but most everybody knew that. It has to do with the framework on diskcopy, the old 10.2 framework can be copied over it and disk copy will work. However if you reboot the finder won't launch. FTP is still untouched. I at least hope they plan to get to it for this update. 10.2 shipped broken and Apple was totally aware of that.

[SJ]

Originally posted by brainchild2b:
sj, the only person who cares is you. Get out of this forum if you don't like it. It's not your job to moderate or tell others what to talk about.

The forum has moderators and if apple has a problem they can contact the moderators. Now go away and get back to fliping your burgers cuz i'm getting hungry...

not much has changed in 6d51

classic is broken and disk copy. but most everybody knew that. It has to do with the framework on diskcopy, the old 10.2 framework can be copied over it and disk copy will work. However if you reboot the finder won't launch. FTP is still untouched. I at least hope they plan to get to it for this update. 10.2 shipped broken and Apple was totally aware of that.

Tell you what... go sign up to be an Apple seeding member and then see how many people care. Oh and I am not telling you what to do, I am letting you know the consiquences (spelling?) of talking about pre-release stuff in this forum.

BTW... of the four things you mentioned... only one is correct. Nice try, but no cigar.

[GnOm]

Originally posted by SJ:
...those problems would have been found BEFORE it was finished for duplication.

all those problems were found weeks before duplication.
Problem is marketing has set the release date and they were running out of time.
Why in the world had it to be Aug. 24th, there was not very much pressure to do this anyway and before the announcement everybody suspected a late September release date, which had made perfectly sense in both marketing and development and had left enough time to squeez the major bugs out.


cheers.

[Sophus]

Originally posted by dwishbone:
i want 10.2.1 to have a true NetBIOS feature.
the windows networking in Jaguar works great for me. the SMB/CIFS network browser works flawlessly. the only problem with the windows file sharing I see is that a PC can not see Mac shares in its Network Neighborhood since the Mac does not actually use NetBIOS as such.
(If I am just missing this feature in Jag someone please explain how to enable it.)
I have no problem entering the IP of my Mac, its good security actually, but I'd still like the option.

Easy,
download the samba Samba Sharing Package (SSP) from xamba. Set up the shares, and voila, they are visible on the network.
Be sure to get the version for 10.2.
The tools are written by Derek jan Hartman, member on this board. Excellent tools!

Sophus

[Marook]

Originally posted by SJ:


Tell you what... go sign up to be an Apple seeding member and then see how many people care. Oh and I am not telling you what to do, I am letting you know the consiquences (spelling?) of talking about pre-release stuff in this forum.

OK, and as a seeding member, I can only tell you that it makes me sick when Apple asks us to test for 100+ hours, write long bug reports, and in return does NOT listen, does NOT allow us to track the bugs, and does NOT tell us whats going on. It makes me sick, 'cause I signed an NDA (several times).

I reported obvious bugs in 8.0, that has never been fixed! And that is Finder bugs! I wrote 5 a4 pages of translation bugs for Jaguar, and not ONE have been corrected! Makes me sick! Sorry, but beeing a seedsite does Not always get you the best things - maybe they should change this, and start listen, or just GIVE US A STATUS of the bugs, that's the least they can do!

[GnOm]

Originally posted by Marook:

I wrote 5 a4 pages of translation bugs for Jaguar, and not ONE have been corrected!

sic!
I was honestly shocked when I first installed retail 10.2, not one single bug/issue has been fixed.


cheers.

[starman]

Originally posted by SJ:


Tell you what... go sign up to be an Apple seeding member and then see how many people care. Oh and I am not telling you what to do, I am letting you know the consiquences (spelling?) of talking about pre-release stuff in this forum.

The consequences? Are you insane? Do you know how many pre-release Jag topics there were in here? If Apple cared one iota there wouldn't be as many threads that went on as long as they did.

The moderators and owners of this board knew fully well what was going on. If it were a problem, the topics would have been shut down.

Mike

[chris_h]

Originally posted by starman:


The consequences? Are you insane? Do you know how many pre-release Jag topics there were in here? If Apple cared one iota there wouldn't be as many threads that went on as long as they did.

The moderators and owners of this board knew fully well what was going on. If it were a problem, the topics would have been shut down.

Mike

well then post your 6D50 info already, jesus christ.

enough drama queenery

[starman]

Originally posted by chris_h:


well then post your 6D50 info already, jesus christ.

enough drama queenery

I think you mean 6D51

Mike

[piracy]

Originally posted by PubGuy:
Piracy -- will 10.2.1 address the cross-platform CD burning issue?

No. Nor will it do anything with Finder FTP.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by piracy:


No. Nor will it do anything with Finder FTP.

What *will* it fix? They seem like pretty pertinent issues to me...

[piracy]

Originally posted by chris_h:


this thread was off topic ass soon ass it started... starman apparently has information

Starman knows squat. All starman knows is what he knows as an ADC member, which is, quite frankly, not much.

[piracy]

Look: if you want issues fixed in Mac OS X (especially PRERELEASE versions of Mac OS X), send feedback to APPLE. Don't discuss it in a place where it has the LEAST POSSIBLE impact, i.e., here.

[seb2]

usually, it's not my style to participate in threads like this, but this time, i will.

piracy, since you seem to (pretend to?) know what's going on at apple, might be you can enlighten us whether localization is an issue at apple?

ok, i could fix mail.app's time format issue by editing the localizable.strings myself, but then there's ical which tells me "today at 18.00 uhr", mixes english and german, there's address book which can't handle umlauts and hence can't look up any german address since the german word for street contains "�", there's the finder which contains lots of localization issues...

and it's been mentioned by others, as well; so i assume all localized versions of applications are somewhat sub-optimal.

...is that a high or low priority thing at apple?

[starman]

Originally posted by piracy:


Starman knows squat. All starman knows is what he knows as an ADC member, which is, quite frankly, not much.

Since when did you become all high and mighty?

Mike

[Moose]

Originally posted by starman:


Since when did you become all high and mighty?

Mike

When he started having a better percentage than you. Now stop trying to act all leet because you blew $500 on an ADC Select membership.

[piracy]

Originally posted by Moose:


When he started having a better percentage than you. Now stop trying to act all leet because you blew $500 on an ADC Select membership.

Hopefully his account will be revoked soon anyway.

[piracy]

Moose:

Some people will never learn.

[cube_450]

Originally posted by seb2:


usually, it's not my style to participate in threads like this, but this time, i will.

piracy, since you seem to (pretend to?) know what's going on at apple, might be you can enlighten us whether localization is an issue at apple?

ok, i could fix mail.app's time format issue by editing the localizable.strings myself, but then there's ical which tells me "today at 18.00 uhr", mixes english and german, there's address book which can't handle umlauts and hence can't look up any german address since the german word for street contains "�", there's the finder which contains lots of localization issues...

and it's been mentioned by others, as well; so i assume all localized versions of applications are somewhat sub-optimal.

...is that a high or low priority thing at apple?

Hello

I am German too. What seb2 wrote makes me really shocked and shows how ignorant Apple reacts to the European market.

As a former employee of CompuServe in times where AOL didn't own CSi I have to say that even we were caring fpr European customers in cases of localisation. And we took the time to test this completely! As a subsidiary in Germany we convinced the mother-company in America to care for issues like 24hr system in Europe or special letters like the German "�" "�" "�" or Swedish special characters!

It seems for me that the wird "Unicode" is totally new to Apple. It is a shame to request money in Germany for such a bad and buggy software quality and it makes me even more upset since I bought 10.2 without knowlege of the "Europe ignoring issue". I installed 10.2 this morning and didnt test (! Is this now as well for Apple customers necessary? I thought only for Windows users...) but maybe I should do a rollback to a working 10.1 system environment as the apps are still not installed...?

Apple moves closer and closer to Windows...

a disappointed
cUBe

[DannyVTim]

Originally posted by piracy:


Hopefully his account will be revoked soon anyway.

You're one to talk. Get over yourself. You state the obvious mostly; and in violate of NDA.

BTW, you're checksums were incorrect on 10.2 because you had an incorrect build.

[foamy]

Piracy (egregious violator of his NDA) originally said:

All starman knows is what he knows as an ADC member, which is, quite frankly, not much.

Mr. Nail.
Meet Mr. Hammer.
Thwack!

You just nailed the problem.

Now run on over to Stevie's secretary an pass on the news. Either that or get some goddamned work done on *something* at Apple. Unless of course your job description says something like, "Read Macnn.com all day. Find discussions about prerelease software. Badger participants. Turn blue in the face. Repeat as necessary."

[macaddled]

Actually, despite the fact that he's pretty spiky about it, piracy nips a lot of annoying discussions in the bud.

He states the obvious, yeah, before it's obvious to everyone.

[JLL]

Originally posted by seb2:
there's address book which can't handle umlauts and hence can't look up any german address since the german word for street contains "�", there's the finder which contains lots of localization issues...

That seems to be a MapQuest problem.

[Groovy]

Piracy -- said

No. Nor will it do anything with Finder FTP.

and this is exactly why we should be talking about 10.2.1. so we can know
what bugs are and are not being fixed so we can give feedback and lots of it
since that is what it takes before Apple listens to is customers.

Also so we can go find other fixes or buy PC's Like i did
if we can't wait and have deadlines like I do.

]Piracy -- said

Look: if you want issues fixed in Mac OS X (especially PRERELEASE versions of
Mac OS X), send feedback to APPLE.

You are are personally making sure our feedback is getting stuff fixed?
The feedback system does not work well and in fact you just proved it because
I have many times given feedback on those very bugs you are talking about above
and as you said above NOT FIXED.

Lets see I have submitted dozens of bug reports myself and so far
less than 20% of the bugs have been fixed since 10.0 was released.

With so many major bugs ALL web sites should be talking about them
and 10.2.1 so thousands of people can complain and get apple to finally
listen and fix this stuff. Maybe the Finder FTP problem is not be a big deal to
90% of 10.2 users but it is to me. So how do I get it fixed if Apple
will only fix stuff when tens of thousands of customers complain.
As you proved above It doesn't get fixed . I send feedback in
and i want results.

Another example. Apple hosed SCSI in 10.2 so that my CD-R wouldn't
work anymore. A third party work around was released quickly because
I told them it was broke BEFORE 10.2 was released thanks to those
who posted info about it.

I'm glad people get leaked info and then they tell us and then
we can send feedback to apple and third parties and hope apple fixes
their bugs BEFORE GM is reached or the third party can find a work around
sooner. Who can go months and months without their CD-R not working? Not me.
I create about 1 gig worth of Photoshop hexachrome files every day.

Breaking so many SCSI related things is MAJOR STUFF.