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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > GUI Customization > Who else hates theme park?

Who else hates theme park?
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Syzygy
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Jul 28, 2006, 06:35 PM
 
After how many years has themeing worked exactly the same? We still have to edit every single individual recourse. You would think that the programmers of themepark would have had plenty enough time to make the process at least a little bit simpler. I notice small ways they could improve it all the time, but what does that matter when they can't even program something without hundreds of bugs?

Themepark crashes all the time. Does anyone else get this, or is it just coincidence that on all of the many computers that I've used it on it sucks and quits? I have never lost more work to an application than I have with theme park. Ok, I know, I should save often, but guess what? I'm human, and guess what humans do? They forget to do things. This isn't a problem in any well made application because it would be very very rare that the one time I forget to save is the one time the application crashes.

Now all this would be fine and dandy if the application were free, but it's not. These idiots actually expect me to pay. And if I don't want to pay for ****, I have to deal with this ridiculous nag that forces me to chase a button around a window. Well, I sure as hell am never going to pay anything for that even if they do ever get around to fixing all the problems.

As you can probably guess, I'm pissed that I just lost a bunch of work. I'd just like to know if I'm the only one that this is happening to, or if this is a common complaint.
     
joelb
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Jul 28, 2006, 06:50 PM
 
I don't hate it but it sure is a lot of work to get a finished theme up and going...
     
digitaljames
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Jul 28, 2006, 08:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Syzygy
After how many years has themeing worked exactly the same? Blame Apple We still have to edit every single individual recourse. Blame AppleYou would think that the programmers of themepark would have had plenty enough time to make the process at least a little bit simpler. Where's your list of improvements that the developers could review for inclusion?I notice small ways they could improve it all the time, but what does that matter when they can't even program something without hundreds of bugs? No one is stopping YOU from creating this "bug free" app you speak of.

Themepark crashes all the time. Does anyone else get this, or is it just coincidence that on all of the many computers that I've used it on it sucks and quits?Apparently it's just you ( and maybe 6 others) I have never lost more work to an application than I have with theme park. Ok, I know, I should save often, but guess what? I'm human, and guess what humans do? They forget to do things. This isn't a problem in any well made application because the developers of those apps aren't human? it would be very very rare that the one time I forget to save is the one time the application crashes.

Now all this would be fine and dandy if the application were free, but it's not. Yes it isThese idiots actually expect me to pay. See previous answer idiot.And if I don't want to pay for ****, I have to deal with this ridiculous nag that forces me to chase a button around a window. Holy crap your life sucks...having to chase a button (oh wait, it's free now. Perhaps spend a few minutes with one of those perfect apps you have called "a clue".Well, I sure as hell am never going to pay anything for that even if they do ever get around to fixing all the problems. insert previously defined idiocy

As you can probably guess, I'm pissed that I just lost a bunch of work. I'd just like to know if I'm the only one that this is happening to, or if this is a common complaint.
No, it's just you.
     
hey!_Zeus
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Jul 29, 2006, 01:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by digitaljames
No, it's just you.
no it's not.
     
Gerrit Vanoppen
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Jul 29, 2006, 01:35 AM
 
Don't mean to sound harsh Syzygy, but :

- you can not blame any application because the user forgets to safe at regular intervals
- you can not blame ThemePark for the complexity of the macOS UI

Speaking only for myself, my guess is that the TP developers offer a way to access the numerous resources that are needed to build a theme, and that they do their best to keep up with the evolution of the macOS itself, rather than worry too much about the interface of TP itself. You must admit : anyone who gets as far as to build a theme should know the basics of using a computer. TP is a tool, perhaps a dirty one, but it gets the job done. If you hang in long enough, you'll get used to it.

Besides, meanwhile, I think ThemePark has become freeware.
     
smeger
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Jul 29, 2006, 03:15 AM
 
ThemePark has indeed become freeware.

I'll be the first to admit that ThemePark could be easier to use - making it so is among my highest priority. Know why it hasn't gotten done? You pegged it in your first paragraph:

You would think that the programmers of themepark would have had plenty enough time to make the process at least a little bit simpler.
Nope, not enough time, not even close. I need to keep ShapeShifter compelling enough to finance development of ThemePark, while keeping up with changes Apple makes.

For example, Tiger changed the window server so that it conformed the stroke and shadows around windows to the default shape of an Aqua window, which made anything with any other shape look horrible. Finding a work-around took lots of time. Release. Turns out my fix makes window dragging and resizing slow way down on computers with certain graphic cards. Lots of time spent finding a new work-around. Release. Turns out the new work-around makes Adobe Illustrator 1.7 from 1926 break, and lots of people still use Adobe Illustrator 1.7 from 1926. Lots of time spent trying to find a fix that resolves that while keeping performance up and still fixing the original window shape issues. Fix found, release. Lots of complaints that the 1-pixel invisibly gray stroke around windows is no longer present. Sigh.

Mutliply that one issue by about 50. Add in Jaguar -> Panther transition, Panther -> Tiger transition, PPC -> Intel transition, a ton of iLife updates, and adding new features periodically to keep people excited and to keep the product compelling.

I know exactly what ThemePark needs, but without more time in the day, it only gets essential fixes, like the app skin manager that showed up in 3.0, and bug fixes.

Sorry to answer your rant with a rant - it's actually more directed at people who want everything to be free, perfect, and done yesterday.
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blackbird_1.0
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Jul 29, 2006, 09:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by smeger
Turns out the new work-around makes Adobe Illustrator 1.7 from 1926 break, and lots of people still use Adobe Illustrator 1.7 from 1926.
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orcinus
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Jul 29, 2006, 10:05 AM
 
Re OP:

I'll never understand people who complain about free apps.

Noone's forcing you to use them. You haven't paid for it. You don't have a right to demand anything. Use it or don't use it. (and send a suggestion/wish list to the authors instead of ranting)
     
Catfish_Man
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Jul 29, 2006, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gerrit Vanoppen
Don't mean to sound harsh Syzygy, but :
- you can not blame any application because the user forgets to safe at regular intervals
Ohhh yes you can. It's ridiculous that more apps don't support autosaving, although you can partly blame Apple for not adding it as a "free" feature of Cocoa until 10.4.
     
aristotles
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Jul 29, 2006, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by digitaljames
No, it's just you.
That was quite immature and not at all helpful. You should know better DJ.
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ghporter
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Jul 29, 2006, 09:19 PM
 
Is this rant over? And was it called for? So you don't like a free app. Fine-don't use it. Please spare the rest of us your exceptionally negative feelings on the subject just because you're frustrated. I believe that such venom should be witheld because you're reacting only to your OWN experience, and others' may be very different.

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MacMan4000
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Jul 29, 2006, 09:27 PM
 
TP has never crashed on me. Never.

Sure it's a long difficult process to make a theme, but so is making an oil painting. It's dificult because it's complex, but thats not TP's fault... if it's anyone's fault its Apple's. But then again Apple didn't make its UI to be themed, so you really can't blame them either.

Seems like a childish complaint if you ask me.
     
FB Eye
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Jul 30, 2006, 01:00 AM
 
Without TP, there wouldn't be ANY themes available for OS X... smeger is the guy who made customizing OS X possible, without his hard work you'd still be stuck with Aqua... and don't forget Max Rudberg who spent dozens of hours naming properly every resources that need to be themed, resources that previously were named 4563 and PPAT335...

Consider yourself lucky smeger is still dedicated to these apps (TP and SS) even if he has to deal with whiny spoiled brats like you... you're in no position to demand anything, just consider yourself lucky with what you have...

I hate internet arguing with a passion, i usually stay far far away from it, but i think it was deserved in this case...
     
aristotles
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Jul 30, 2006, 06:21 PM
 
I think smeger is doing a great job and I can appreciate that resources might be limited. Having said that, as a developer myself, I have learned to take criticism with a humble heart.

I think smeger's response was fairly reasonable all things considered and we were given some insight into some of the challenges behind keeping TP and SS up to date with new releases.
*rant*
But I have to say what I absolutely do not understand are the venomous responses from people that have nothing to do with the development of product. Stop being fanboys and stop fighting smeger's battles. I believe smeger is perfectly capable of answering challenges,question or criticism by the public without your "help".
*rant*
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MacMan4000
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Jul 30, 2006, 06:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles
*rant*
But I have to say what I absolutely do not understand are the venomous responses from people that have nothing to do with the development of product. Stop being fanboys and stop fighting smeger's battles. I believe smeger is perfectly capable of answering challenges,question or criticism by the public without your "help".
*rant*
Well the thread was not exactly directed at smeger himself. It was kinda directed at the community as a whole, asking who else hates TP. Therefore, the community should answer. I think.
     
digitaljames
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Jul 30, 2006, 07:30 PM
 
Not to mention that his *rant* could have been sent to Jason via email and perhaps received direct support. Yes, I'm a fanboy and yes, I'll always stand up for a developer when baseless FUD is being hurled. As to your earlier comment about knowing better, my last line was previously quantified by saying *6 others* meaning the ratio of satified customers outweighs the number of customers with problems to such a degree that yes, it is just him....
     
MacDog
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Jul 30, 2006, 08:38 PM
 
No offense DJ, but how do you know the ratio of customers is overwhelmingly satisfied. To be honest, I've heard very few people who actually like using ThemePark, but as already stated we're kind of stuck with it because it's the best Jason can do with the time he has. I can appreciate that, but that doesn't make it better than it is.

Having names put on the different resources doesn't help either. The fact that something is called "Window Tile" as opposed to PPAT 35679 doesn't really help when you still don't have any clue as to what "Window Tile" is and where it appears in the OS.

The guy has legit complaints about ThemePark, we shouldn't bash him for that (and by the way, I know of more than 6 people personally that it crashes on quite a bit).

What we should bash him for is being a weenie and just bitching about it without providing specific examples and making an effort to get help. The name calling is also uncalled for and now I'm willing to bet that nobody wants to help - and I don't blame them.
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smeger
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Jul 30, 2006, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by digitaljames
Not to mention that his *rant* could have been sent to Jason via email and perhaps received direct support.
It was, and in all fairness, my original reply to him was much more bitchy than my reply here. He emailed me back more politely than his original email, and I responded much more politely than my original response, and I think and hope that we've resolved the differences both via private email and via this thread.

And to reiterate, I think a lot of the original criticism is completely valid, except for crashing - I'm not aware of any crashers in ThemePark. Make me aware of them with a crashreport, and I'll fix them.

But making a theme with ThemePark is waaaayyy too hard, and I don't think that there's any dispute about that, from anywhere.
Geekspiff - generating spiffdiddlee software since before you began paying attention.
     
digitaljames
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Jul 30, 2006, 09:15 PM
 
<sigh>

1. No offense taken....

2. *6 other people* is an analogy not a concrete number.

3. I base my ratio statement on the observation that;

a. People with problems/complaints/concerns voice them.
b. People who have none of the above don't.
c. Having spent a lot of time on forums where Mac users are into customizing with Themepark, I've not seen that many [maybe 6 ] people voice complaints about how the software functions.
d. Many people including myself are unhappy about how hard theming is on a Mac running OS X. I blame Apple.
e. Many people complain about the naming convention associated with Themepark.

The OP has received communication from the developer re: his concerns, do we need to continue anything here?
     
Syzygy  (op)
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Jul 30, 2006, 09:24 PM
 
Hehe... I forgot I posted this �_� Sorry you guys had to witness my angst...

I'll probably delete this if I can figure out how.
     
siMac
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Jul 31, 2006, 07:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles
That was quite immature and not at all helpful.
aristotles meet digitaljames, digitaljames aristotles.

ThemePark has never crashed for me in many, many hours of use [dribble, nervous tick, shudder]. Try binning your .plist.
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digitaljames
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Jul 31, 2006, 08:58 AM
 
I've been outed...
     
ZXspectrum
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Jul 31, 2006, 11:09 AM
 
i prefer to pay for TP if it will help making it a better app...
     
siMac
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Jul 31, 2006, 11:46 AM
 
In an ideal world Themepark could be made easier to use with some kind of WYSIWIG editor that groups resources by element.

Anyone who's ever used Swiz's cocoa buttons actions knows what I mean, you create your artwork in a predetermined position and then the program chops up the elements for you. This would greatly cut down on the time needed to make a theme; in my experience the most time consuming part is chopping up and copying/pasting each element into all of its component resources.

In an ideal world....
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Dakar
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Jul 31, 2006, 01:43 PM
 
I don't hate themepark. Sure it could be easier to use, and have a more specific guide, but being able to create my own theme at all makes me happy.
     
eyevaan
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Jul 31, 2006, 02:12 PM
 
I first tried to theme by directly editing the rsrc and extras files... I didn't know any better, it was before I found this forum. I will take TP anyday over that durge. I will admit the my first impression was of a vertical learning curve. One MOD later and it made a whole lot more sense. Imperfect? Perhaps but any questions and information was so quickly answered, that I felt that someone wanted me to learn it. Maybe that speaks more to the community than the program directly but Smeger was one of the people answering the questions...
     
smeger
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Jul 31, 2006, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by ZXspectrum
i prefer to pay for TP if it will help making it a better app...
Heh, I'm totally down with that.
Geekspiff - generating spiffdiddlee software since before you began paying attention.
     
   
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