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magicbumone · Nov 26, 2007, 11:20 AM

I have a macbook and I had never saw OS X crash in Tiger but when I upgraded to Leopard I get operating system crashes at least 3 times a week and I am forced to reboot every time losing any unsaved data. Has anyone else had this same issue or know of a fix.

Big Mac · Nov 26, 2007, 11:28 AM

Shouldn't be happening. Do you have any Panic Logs?

fletch33 · Nov 26, 2007, 12:42 PM

from what you have written i am assuming you have done an upgrade versus a fresh install? from all my reading i have seen this occasional problem posted only with people who did upgrades. i suggest doing a fresh install and your problems will most likely be gone.

C.A.T.S. CEO · Nov 26, 2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by fletch33

from what you have written i am assuming you have done an upgrade versus a fresh install? from all my reading i have seen this occasional problem posted only with people who did upgrades. i suggest doing a fresh install and your problems will most likely be gone.

Or a archive an install, which will install a new system but keep user data.

legacyb4 · Nov 26, 2007, 01:25 PM

Sounds like an extensions conflict somewhere; my archive & install setup has been rock solid since day 1.

Big Mac · Nov 26, 2007, 01:27 PM

Extensions don't exist in OS X.

magicbumone · Nov 26, 2007, 01:35 PM

I will try the archive an install method and see if the problem still exists. Thanks for all the help

fletch33 · Nov 26, 2007, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by legacyb4

Sounds like an extensions conflict somewhere; my archive & install setup has been rock solid since day 1.

as mentioned above

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO

Or a archive an install, which will install a new system but keep user data.

i think the problem was related to upgrading. i realize that many people will post that their upgrade went off without a hitch and i am sure most of them did. however i personally never upgrade when it comes to things as large as a new OS just to be safe. i dont think anyone would argue that a fresh install beats an upgrade on something like this. software updates are one thing but a new OS is much more technical.

fyi - i became a mac believer about a year ago when i bought a black macbook to run XP on and within a couple of weeks i wasnt firing up XP anymore but when i did run windows i found it necessary to do a clean install almost twice a year to keep it running its best. i dont miss that at all

Kevin · Nov 26, 2007, 02:17 PM

Have any APE software hacks installed?

milhouse · Nov 26, 2007, 10:00 PM

I had lots of related issues on a both MacBook Pro and MacPro after an upgrade install. After an A&I, the MacBook Pro performed mostly well but the MacPro is flakey (need to clear caches/repair permissions/reboot for the machine to run well)

IMO, there are issues with either Leopard or the installer. Too many folks are having problems. Leopard's features are neat though.

Hopefully the next update won't be far off. Tiger was much more stable and, as a result, usable for me.

Anyhow, +1 for the Archive and Install.
Be sure to repair permissions from the DVD before installing.

CharlesS · Nov 26, 2007, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by milhouse

Be sure to repair permissions from the DVD before installing.

The OS installer runs as root, so it doesn't matter at all what the permissions of anything on the drive are. Also, all those files you're changing the permissions of are just going to get overwritten by the installer anyway. Repairing permissions before installing the OS does exactly nothing for you, and is simply a waste of time.

Kevin · Nov 27, 2007, 11:53 AM

Do I need to repair permissions before installing an update to Mac OS X?

In a word, no. When you install a Mac OS X update, you’re required to authenticate—provide an admin-level username and password—in order for the installation to proceed. When you authenticate, you’re allowing the installer to run with the equivalent of root access. What this means is that the installer is not constrained by Mac OS X’s permissions system—it ignores the normal restrictions of file and folder permissions. This is necessary for Installer to be able to update Mac OS X, but, more important for the current discussion, it also means that “incorrect” permissions shouldn’t cause problems with the installation.

The only real benefit to repairing permissions before a Mac OS X update is that if you do so, then immediately install the update, and then repair permissions again immediately afterwards, you can be pretty confident that any permissions issues that are found are a result of the update. But at that point you’ve also fixed the problem(s), so the pre-install “repair” provided you with little more than academic knowledge.

Macworld: Secrets: Repairing permissions: What you need to know

Said page is a great knowledge of info about permissions.

milhouse · Nov 28, 2007, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

The OS installer runs as root, so it doesn't matter at all what the permissions of anything on the drive are. Also, all those files you're changing the permissions of are just going to get overwritten by the installer anyway. Repairing permissions before installing the OS does exactly nothing for you, and is simply a waste of time.

That makes sense.
Do the recommendations I've read only apply to applying point updates or third party software updates?

Is it Mac Voodoo?

CharlesS · Nov 28, 2007, 01:51 PM

Those recommendations, as far as I can tell, must have been written by someone who didn't understand how permissions work. Any time you enter your admin password, you're giving root access to the installer, which makes it the same situation as when the installer is running from the boot disc. The permissions on your files and folders could be 000 and the installer would still be able to write to them. That applies to Software Update or any other installer that asks for your admin password.

And yeah, IMO the Repair Permissions thing is largely voodoo. People don't need to run it nearly as often as they think they do.

milhouse · Nov 28, 2007, 03:18 PM

Thanks.

I'll keep that in mind.

/me nervously rubs rabbit's foot

Kevin · Nov 28, 2007, 04:08 PM

What what Charles is saying is true, you should also make sure you know that running it does fix some things. I encourage you to read more about it, and find out for yourselves.

Instead of giving the guy a fish, teach him how to fish etc. From said link above

Macworld: Secrets: Repairing permissions: What you need to know

Basically most everything a average Mac user needs to know about permissions.

Having said that, Apple needs to figure out other ways to remember permissions other than receipts. I've seen receipt folders that have taken a considerable amount of space.

magicbumone · Nov 28, 2007, 04:39 PM

I just did a clean install and I have not noticed any problems so far. Thanks

nickhos38 · Nov 29, 2007, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by fletch33

i suggest doing a fresh install and your problems will most likely be gone.

I did a fresh, clean, erase and install. No problems thus far except...

Yesterday I had to send two reports to Apple due to kernel panics, one right after the other. Both occurred while opening Dashboard. The panic has not reoccurred.

jbleisure · Nov 29, 2007, 07:18 PM

I did a fresh install about a week after release. I had an OS X crash a few days after that. I was surprised because I didn't know OS X could 'crash'. But there it was muted screen and a dialogue box telling me the OS had crashed!

magicbumone · Nov 30, 2007, 02:43 AM

After I did a clean install everything was going good until while playing a dvd my macbook froze on me and I had to reboot. I noticed my fan running really loud so now im wondering if I am having over heating problems. My MacBook was really hot as well. I hope a cooling pad will be a easy fix for this but I never had my macbook freeze on me from running it to much.

Kevin · Nov 30, 2007, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by jbleisure

I did a fresh install about a week after release. I had an OS X crash a few days after that. I was surprised because I didn't know OS X could 'crash'. But there it was muted screen and a dialogue box telling me the OS had crashed!

Yup, I've had my first Black Screen of Death on OS X since the public beta days of 10.0 (I could make it do it randomly then) with 10.5 after doing a clean install. Not that it was the clean install's fault...

stirrell · Nov 30, 2007, 01:15 PM

My only problem so far with Leopard is with Parallels. Most of the the time it works fine but sometimes it will hard lock the system and require a shut down. I am hoping that Parallels will update their software soon. VMWare works great.

magicbumone · Nov 30, 2007, 02:23 PM

Trash parallels and only use VMware Fusion!

olePigeon · Nov 30, 2007, 03:05 PM

Boot off your system DVD holding down the D key, then run an extended test. This will test your computer's hardware including the RAM. It'll take a few hours, so you might want to run it just before you go to bed (or out to dinner, or whatever.)

Lots of crashing could be an indication of bad RAM or Hard Disc.

magicbumone · Dec 1, 2007, 01:27 PM

So my MacBook was working good with out much problem's after I did a clean install of Leopard but today the operating system crash again. I will try that extended test and see if it comes up with anything.

magicbumone · Dec 1, 2007, 01:47 PM

It wont let me boot off dvd! Takes me to OS X crashed page everytime I try to restart my computer. If I take leopard out and restart it will restart like normal. I will be calling Apple on this one!

barrond · Dec 3, 2007, 09:34 PM

i archived/installed leopard on my macbook pro 3 days ago and have had a black curtain restart error daily, usually after a long time unattended. my macbook is on a wireless network, connecting with my g5.

the first indication of a problem i see is that safari can't connect to the internet and i see my mail isn't loading either. i usually will try to go to the airport settings or internet prefs, but i get the restart curtain within minutes.

i don't understand the error log, but there are lots of "throttling respawn"s and "no such file or directory." sounds network related to me.

-db

magicbumone · Dec 4, 2007, 03:14 PM

I did the extended test on all my ram. I first tried with both slots filled with 1GB of ram in each slot and it would not go through test, it would just freeze on me every time. Also during the freeze my screen would have a bunch of flashing horizontal lines on my LCD. I then tested every ram I have individually and all of them said that my macbook has no problems. I ended my testing with putting back the 2GB of ram in my computer and running a test and this time it finished a test with out freeze and said no problems. Since I did a clean install 2 days ago I have only experienced one kernel panic so I hope it wont keep happening but it usually takes about 3 days before kernel panics start up again with 3+ panics a day. I called Apple and they think its ram issues even though my rams seems to be fully functional. I think Apple just does not want to admit that it could be something other than my 3rd party ram.

magicbumone · Dec 5, 2007, 11:04 AM

I bought memtest which tested my ram and it found that my OWC ram was bad. I took it out and now have not had any cashes.

zandacar · Jan 21, 2008, 10:43 PM

I bought a MacPro with 2 Gbyte RAM that came with Leopard preinstalled, Parallels + Windows XP Pro.

It's been Crash City. I've seen three scenarios:
- Black screen of death: a blank window drops across my screen with multi-language instructions that I must shut down by holding the power button.
- Blue screen of death: I leave the machine running unattended at lot. Every so often, when I come back, I have a blank blue screen. The machine will not respond to keyboard or mouse. Again I'm forced to cycle the power to recover.
- I'm in the middle of using an app (even Apple apps, like Mail or Safari) and everything suddenly freezes. Again, no response to mouse or keyboard, and yet again I'm forced to cycle the power to recover.

I've upgrade to Parallels 3.0 and Leopard 10.5.1. No improvement. I've been crashing an average of once per 3 days.

I have been using Macs since 1990, starting with System 6. I don't think I've ever since anything this unstable since System 7. I'm just astonished something of this quality managed to make it past their SQA department. Here's hoping the 10.5.2 release will make all this worth it.

besson3c · Jan 21, 2008, 11:03 PM

zandacar: unless you have any kernel extensions installed, this actually sounds like a hardware issue. Have you tried pulling out a stick of RAM?

workerbee · Jan 22, 2008, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by zandacar

I bought a MacPro with 2 Gbyte RAM that came with Leopard preinstalled, Parallels + Windows XP Pro.
It's been Crash City.
(...)
- I'm in the middle of using an app (even Apple apps, like Mail or Safari) and everything suddenly freezes. Again, no response to mouse or keyboard, and yet again I'm forced to cycle the power to recover.

I got loads of these as well, and despite all the silly voodoo dances that were recommended, including PRAM, disk permissions, exchanging perfectly good RAM sticks, and so on and so forth, and despite having the Console and CPU monitor permanently open, I never found out what it was; there were no suspicious system messages whatsoever for any of the dozens of crashes. This leads me to believe that it was something very deep in the Kernel hanging, probably to do with wireless data IO. BTW, my MBP has not frozen for about a week or so now, and I know exactly as little why it stopped.

I have been using Macs since 1990, starting with System 6. I don't think I've ever since anything this unstable since System 7. I'm just astonished something of this quality managed to make it past their SQA department. Here's hoping the 10.5.2 release will make all this worth it.

My thoughts exactly... except I'm even older and have been using Macs since about 84 or 85

zandacar · Jan 22, 2008, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

zandacar: unless you have any kernel extensions installed, this actually sounds like a hardware issue. Have you tried pulling out a stick of RAM?

You mean that fabulous factory-tested and installed RAM in my brand-spanking-new machine? To be honest, it never occurred to me. Especially after all the other reports of Leopard instability I've been hearing out there. I think I'll try running it thru its paces with the TechTool disk first, however.

If it's a memory problem, I'd sure like to understand how they managed to get all that software loaded without encountering a crash.

besson3c · Jan 22, 2008, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by zandacar

You mean that fabulous factory-tested and installed RAM in my brand-spanking-new machine? To be honest, it never occurred to me. Especially after all the other reports of Leopard instability I've been hearing out there. I think I'll try running it thru its paces with the TechTool disk first, however.

If it's a memory problem, I'd sure like to understand how they managed to get all that software loaded without encountering a crash.

I don't know, I'd have to reread the details you provided to hypothesize whether a bad stick of RAM might be the culprit.

Do your crashes occur under a different OS X account on that machine? Do you have any kernel extensions installed?

zandacar · Jan 22, 2008, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by workerbee

I got loads of these as well, and despite all the silly voodoo dances that were recommended, including PRAM, disk permissions, exchanging perfectly good RAM sticks, and so on and so forth, and despite having the Console and CPU monitor permanently open, I never found out what it was; there were no suspicious system messages whatsoever for any of the dozens of crashes. This leads me to believe that it was something very deep in the Kernel hanging, probably to do with wireless data IO. BTW, my MBP has not frozen for about a week or so now, and I know exactly as little why it stopped.
My thoughts exactly... except I'm even older and have been using Macs since about 84 or 85

Uh, workerbee, I don't recall mentioning my age. How do you know you're older? :-)

zandacar · Jan 22, 2008, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I don't know, I'd have to reread the details you provided to hypothesize whether a bad stick of RAM might be the culprit.

Do your crashes occur under a different OS X account on that machine? Do you have any kernel extensions installed?

I've only got the one account, and I've not (knowingly) installed any extensions.