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Macintosh · Jun 13, 2002, 09:03 PM

With all of the sad topics around recently I have come to a conclusion; nobody here has come to a conclusion.

Nobody here has been able to just say exactly what women think when they are "thinking differently" than men. What is the big secret? I would really like to know what someone meant by, "if you like the girl, go for it. If not leave her alone."

scaught · Jun 13, 2002, 09:11 PM

is there really a question in there?

theres no secret. women are just as ****ed up as men. its just that men are so desperate that women can take advantage of that fact and create a guise of "mysteriousness" to make men wonder.

Macintosh · Jun 13, 2002, 09:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by scaught:
is there really a question in there?

theres no secret. women are just as ****ed up as men. its just that men are so desperate that women can take advantage of that fact and create a guise of "mysteriousness" to make men wonder.<hr /></blockquote>I dont understand why they are generalized so much? **** with men? I know what you mean when you say that but why do they do it?

WildZero · Jun 13, 2002, 09:16 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Macintosh:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by scaught:
is there really a question in there?

theres no secret. women are just as ****ed up as men. its just that men are so desperate that women can take advantage of that fact and create a guise of "mysteriousness" to make men wonder.<hr /></blockquote>I dont understand why they are generalized so much? **** with men? I know what you mean when you say that but why do they do it?<hr /></blockquote>Because they can.

scaught · Jun 13, 2002, 09:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by WildZero:
Because they can.<hr /></blockquote>ding ding! give the man a prize!!

Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 13, 2002, 09:20 PM

APPLE PRO UNDERWEAR'S FOOLPROOF GIRL TIPS:

treat em' with respect

mudzilla · Jun 13, 2002, 09:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I would really like to know what someone meant by, "if you like the girl, go for it. If not leave her alone."<hr /></blockquote>dude, it's fairly obvious... if you like her, and you don't resemble Quasimodo, then go for it, ask the girl out.
if you don't feel your stomach doing flips when you see her, then it ain't gonna be... immeadiately. leave her alone for the time being

and if that don't work, **** 'em anyway

Mr. Blur · Jun 13, 2002, 10:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
APPLE PRO UNDERWEAR'S FOOLPROOF GIRL TIPS:

treat em' with respect<hr /></blockquote>...and hopefully you'll get the same in return.

and - keep your dignity.....if she's not interested....move on.....

philzilla · Jun 13, 2002, 10:26 PM

i think about 99% of them are living on a planet where they 'think' that we'll just drop everything for them, and do all the 'men stuff' all the time

i'm english. i know of a lady called emily pankhurst. she died in the name of womens rights. she wanted equality for chicks, so much, that she threw herself in front of a horse, during a big race. not just any horse, but the King's horse. now that is getting your point across!

the thing is, it was all in vain:
"just open this jar for me, will you',
"i can't do that, i'm a lady!"
"i can't work the same hours, i'm a girl"

et cetera

what annoys me is:
"oh, i killed him because he annoyed me" (and they get off with this?), "

cheerios, i'm sorry love, but you have to admit that these are valid points <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

and hey, juan said his shorts need washing. step to it

wataru · Jun 13, 2002, 10:28 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />dude, it's fairly obvious... if you like her, and you don't resemble Quasimodo, then go for it, ask the girl out.<hr /></blockquote>LOL

Of all the ugly people to choose from, for some reason Quasimodo is just funnier than most. Not sure why.

Pet peve: Calling women "females." What are you, studying the species or something? They're women.

[ 06-13-2002, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: wataru ]

philzilla · Jun 13, 2002, 10:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mudzilla:
[QUOTE]and if that don't work, **** 'em anyway<hr /></blockquote>he may not speak much, but the brother speaks good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Mr. Blur · Jun 13, 2002, 10:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
i think about 99% of them are living on a planet where they 'think' that we'll just drop everything for them, and do all the 'men stuff' all the time

"just open this jar for me, will you',
"i can't do that, i'm a lady!"
"i can't work the same hours, i'm a girl"

et cetera

what annoys me is:
"oh, i killed him because he annoyed me" (and they get off with this?), "

<hr /></blockquote>(excuse the slight trimming there phil....)

you actually make a valid point. it's one of my "pet peeves" about the whole feminism industry - "equality" to them seems to mean "equality when we want it and it's to our advantage." Well, sorry, i think you gotta take the bad with the good, and with that "equality" comes being responsible too - don't turn around and look for a man to blame every time something goes wrong or you get into trouble.

philzilla · Jun 13, 2002, 10:52 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mr. Blur:
you actually make a valid point<hr /></blockquote>i know you guys hate to say that

"aren't you going to buy me a drink then?"
"you'll have to take me to dinner first"

how about...

"you wanted equality, so you take me for a drink and you pay for dinner!"

equality? yeah right. when you start acting equal, you'll get treated equal

philzilla · Jun 13, 2002, 10:59 PM

think about it

on the wedding day, the first thing they see is you. then they see the alter. then they see you

this is kinda like a visual gag, its punchline being:

i'll
alter
you

WildZero · Jun 13, 2002, 11:06 PM

Meh, it's nice to have a woman who wants to work...makes rent easier. Besides, even if they know how to f**k with our heads...it's always worth it.

MikeM32 · Jun 13, 2002, 11:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
"you wanted equality, so you take me for a drink and you pay for dinner!"
equality? yeah right. when you start acting equal, you'll get treated equal<hr /></blockquote>That's the nail on the head IMHO. Many women want the equal rights feeling but also want the glorious treatment of the circa 1950's lady (may I buy you a drink melady? etc., etc.) They want their cake and they want to e at it too (in a manner of speaking).

Case in point: A former boss of mine (beautiful female, slightly older and married) once threw a retirement party at a local pub/restaurant for her boss. We had recently had a difference of opinion so when I had the chance I sat with her at her table with some other co-workers and offerred to buy her a pint. We discussed the "issue" and I offerred her another pint, and another and another (never did she refuse any of my drinks).

The end of the evening came around (this was a night before a work-day mind-you) and she says to me "thanks alot, now I had to call my husband to come pick me up!!" in a very angry and accusational tone of voice. I was like WTF?!?!? I think she actually blamed me for "making" her drink so much with me, as-if I forced the beer down her throat or something.

The next day at work she purchased breakfast for me, when I thanked her she said "I'm just getting even" in a very stern voice (as if to suggest she was getting "back" at me).

Mike

[ 06-13-2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: MikeM32 ]

philzilla · Jun 13, 2002, 11:23 PM

mike, don't get me started, please. in my book, "equality = equal"

all tha laydeez in da house scream "yeeeah!"

Tigerabbit · Jun 13, 2002, 11:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
how about...

"you wanted equality, so you take me for a drink and you pay for dinner!"

equality? yeah right. when you start acting equal, you'll get treated equal<hr /></blockquote>Hmmm, well, if I WERE interested in you, then I WOULD do that. And yes, I've asked guys that I was interested in out on dates, and I either paid or split the check on more than half the occasions. But then that's just me being me.

Until the demand from what women have drops off or the supply increases dramatically, the price won't change. Face it, men are more desperate than women, so men pay like the suckers they are.

[ 06-13-2002, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: Tigerabbit ]

philzilla · Jun 13, 2002, 11:28 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tigerabbit:
[Face it, men are more desperate than women, so men pay like the suckers they are<hr /></blockquote>sorry love, not this one. i'm quite happy to be single forever, thanks to some classy mind stunts pulled by 'you lot'

godzookie2k · Jun 13, 2002, 11:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
sorry love, not this one. i'm quite happy to be single forever, thanks to some classy mind stunts pulled by 'you lot'<hr /></blockquote>"AMEN" said the congregation, "AMEN, BROTHA PHIL."

nick

MikeM32 · Jun 13, 2002, 11:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
mike, don't get me started, please. in my book, "equality = equal"
all tha laydeez in da house scream "yeeeah!"<hr /></blockquote>I'm not sure what you're getting at here phil, perhaps you misinterpretted my post.

That post was based on real experience, not on the "Cinderella Lovestory" or "Every woman is a beautiful snowflake" experience that most men want, or choose to believe from women. I think the point is that women are just as capable of ugliness as us guys are.

And also I'm not sure what part of "equality" wasn't emphasized from my previous post. I mean she blamed me for "making" her drink too much?!? Nobody forced the drinks down her throat. <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> Just because I offerred doesn't mean she needed to accept. <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

Mike

Tigerabbit · Jun 13, 2002, 11:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
sorry love, not this one. i'm quite happy to be single forever, thanks to some classy mind stunts pulled by 'you lot'<hr /></blockquote>I am truly sorry that you've been hurt like that in the past.

People do stupid sh�t to hurt each other, and I have yet to understand why. But as∫holes like that are equally divided between the sexes, as someone who has "fished from both sides of the lake" I know it from personal experience.

MikeM32 · Jun 13, 2002, 11:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tigerrabbit:
Until the demand from what women have drops off or the supply increases dramatically, the price won't change. Face it, men are more desperate than women, so men pay like the suckers they are. <hr /></blockquote>Sad, but true. As long as men are willing to put women on such a high pedestal women will enjoy such treatment. Its a vicious circle really. Therefor there can never really be "equality" between the sexes. Both women and men are guilty of perpetrating this ancient behaviour.

Mike

gumby5647 · Jun 14, 2002, 01:43 AM

chicks? females? ohhhh i remember them.....i haven't talked to one of them for a long time...

***runs off and talks to cheerios***

cheerios · Jun 14, 2002, 02:04 AM

so THAT'S why you're IM'ing me, about your dog!! he he

as for the cruelness of women... we're not ALL like that. Just some of em.

as for our rights, John'll tell you, I try to pay about half the time, and i try to do it myself, and only ask for help when I can't. So, yes, i run to him with Jars to open, and have him get stuff down off of high shelves. BUT, I drive him to get cafeene when he's going through withdrawl at midnight, I give him backrubs, and check his spelling. so it all works out. he's reading over my shoulder, says "I'm glad your not like that, it's one of the thigns I like about you".

juanvaldes · Jun 14, 2002, 02:21 AM

I plead the 5th! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

That and I don't want to give any more geeks my secrets

Hawkeye_a · Jun 14, 2002, 02:22 AM

Only one person deserves respect, and thats urself. Once you give a girl respect/attention she starts looking for it somewhere else.

ism · Jun 14, 2002, 02:27 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cheerios:
as for the cruelness of women... we're not ALL like that. Just some of em.
<hr /></blockquote>MY ARSE!

Earth Mk. II · Jun 14, 2002, 02:28 AM

A friend of mine dumped a guy for never letting her pay for anything once. I thought it was the funniest thing ever... of course, we were in HS at the time and I had just been dumped b/c I (and my family as a whole) didn't have enough money for my ex's liking (didn't actually discover that 'till later.. hoo.. that was fun, lemme tell 'ya).. blah.

Anyway, I'm seeing an awesome girl now, and let me 'tell ya.. that guy with the 'respect women' thing, yeah, he was on to something.

gumby5647 · Jun 14, 2002, 02:55 AM

Cipher13 · Jun 14, 2002, 05:47 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
Only one person deserves respect, and thats urself. Once you give a girl respect/attention she starts looking for it somewhere else.<hr /></blockquote>Tru'er words were never spoken.

My opinion:

"Put the toilet seat down when I'm done? How about YOU put it UP when YOU'RE done."

dav · Jun 14, 2002, 08:14 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:
"Put the toilet seat down when I'm done? How about YOU put it UP when YOU'RE done."<hr /></blockquote>isn't that what the lid's for? put the seat and lid down before you flush. IMHO

Tigerabbit · Jun 14, 2002, 08:33 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
Only one person deserves respect, and thats urself. Once you give a girl respect/attention she starts looking for it somewhere else.<hr /></blockquote>Bullsh�t. Pure, unadulterated, bullsh�t.

When you *FAIL* to give *ANYONE* respect and attention, they'll start looking elsewhere, male or female.

Anyone who behaves the way you describe is someone you NEVER should have started a relationship with in the first place, and it's you own damn fault for thinking "with the wrong head" for not seeing that person for the shallow, vacuous moron they are in the beginning.

It's not the fault of women that you're too busy looking at their breasts and think about poking them to notice severe personality flaws like that.

�and women make the same mistakes with loser men too, thinking that no one else will ever love them, when the guy they're with doesn't get a rat's �ss about anything except the sex.

denim · Jun 14, 2002, 09:44 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
treat em' with respect<hr /></blockquote>Doesn't suffice, but it's a good start.

philzilla · Jun 14, 2002, 10:44 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Earth Mk. II:
A friend of mine dumped a guy for never letting her pay for anything once.<hr /></blockquote>i was with a girl for 9 years, then i had to leave her, because she was kinda seeing someone else. she said it annoyed her that, during that 9 year period, i never raised my voice to her once, i was too kind, and that i loved her too much

go figure

chicks, man. they screw you up. can't live with'em, can't legally kill'em

Earth Mk. II · Jun 14, 2002, 10:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
i never raised my voice to her once, i was too kind, and that i loved her too much<hr /></blockquote>That makes about as much sense as Ronald Reagan doing the macarena with Janet Reno. <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />

philzilla · Jun 14, 2002, 11:15 AM

i know! psycho hose beast!

heh, i saw her a few weeks ago though, for the first time in 5 years. i looked great and she looked like death. she's now pregnant with her second child (by different guys) since we split. i hear she's slowly losing her mind too. a part of me feels real sorry for her and wants to ring her and talk to her. the rest of me is just laughing and feeling glad that i got out when i did

don't even get me started on the one that's just totally wrecked my head. how such a beautiful person can be so hurtful is beyond me. she needs help, but she won't accept mine. chicks...

cheerios · Jun 14, 2002, 11:36 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
i know! psycho hose beast!

heh, i saw her a few weeks ago though, for the first time in 5 years. i looked great and she looked like death. she's now pregnant with her second child (by different guys) since we split. i hear she's slowly losing her mind too. a part of me feels real sorry for her and wants to ring her and talk to her. the rest of me is just laughing and feeling glad that i got out when i did

don't even get me started on the one that's just totally wrecked my head. how such a beautiful person can be so hurtful is beyond me. she needs help, but she won't accept mine. chicks...<hr /></blockquote>The outside doesn't necessarily match the inside, Philzilla... sad, but true. I know plenty of beautiful women who are mean, conniving, and untrustworthy. The exceptions seem soo much more shocking for it. And Hawkeye, dude, if you aren't respecting the women you're involved with, they won't respect you. You're just INVITING the kind of "female behavior" y'all are gripin' about. Do unto other etc etc...

As for seeing personality flaws before you get into relationships, it's not always possible. But you do have to remember your partners are only human. so are you. and none of us are perfect.

andi*pandi · Jun 14, 2002, 11:49 AM

sigh. here we go again. So glad tigerabbit and cheerios are here...

1. Feminism isn't an industry, it's an ideology. The simple ideology that women are capable people.

2. Just because feminism exists, doesn't mean chivalry is dead. Chivalry is being polite, having manners. Is that so wrong? I'd hold a door open for you, would you do the same for me? <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> Opening a pickle jar does not refute feminism.

3. Feminism is about knowing that PEOPLE, at the core, are equal, if they do the same work, they deserve the same pay... I have NEVER once heard a woman say, "I can't work those hours cuz I'm a GIRL." Dumbass.

4. The few girls I know who still act, well, girly, do it because they think men like it--men feel more macho around wimpy little girls. (I call them girls because they haven't earned the right to be called women.) Example: the girl who introduced me to my husband told me before the first date, "wear something pink, that outfit you wore last week, men like that." Thank god I didn't listen and wore jeans and my leather jacket! He wasn't like the men she dated at all, for which I'm extremely grateful... her men always loved and left her, played mind games, were inaccessable, and basically just wanted sex. I got the much better deal. Without wearing pink.

Point being, there are men who like girly girls, who don't care if they are vacuous and shallow. They deserve each other. What you guys are complaining about is getting mixed up with said vacuous girls, when you think you deserve better. Do you? Are you shallow?

[ 06-14-2002, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: andi*pandi ]

ReggieX · Jun 14, 2002, 12:52 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
Only one person deserves respect, and thats urself. Once you give a girl respect/attention she starts looking for it somewhere else.<hr /></blockquote>Every day, I think I've seen the most retarded thing on the internet.
Now I can stop looking. Yeesh. <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />

BlackGriffen · Jun 14, 2002, 04:15 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Earth Mk. II:
A friend of mine dumped a guy for never letting her pay for anything once.<hr /></blockquote>i was with a girl for 9 years, then i had to leave her, because she was kinda seeing someone else. she said it annoyed her that, during that 9 year period, i never raised my voice to her once, i was too kind, and that i loved her too much

go figure

chicks, man. they screw you up. can't live with'em, can't legally kill'em<hr /></blockquote>Doesn't sound like it makes sense, does it? My guess is that she was a victim of abuse when she was younger (probably her father abused her and her mother), and that's what she sought out in an ideal partner. It just took her 9 years to try to reconcile the fact that she actually wanted to be abused at some level. She needs therapy, badly. If you're wondering where I get this, it's from listening to Loveline. Every time someone calls up saying, "I keep getting in to abusive relationships, what do I do?" Dr. Drew says, "Were you abused as a child?" and then goes on to explain how people who get abused as children tend to seek out abusive relationships for the rest of their lives. Perhaps not consciously, but the type of person the victim is attracted to bears a definite resemblance to the victim's abuser.

This is the first case of someone actually consciously admitting it that I have heard of, though. Perhaps she was a submissive and a masochist?

BlackGriffen

voodoo · Jun 14, 2002, 04:38 PM

That's far fetched. 'bout that abuse thing. It's no rule. I'll grant you there is a slight possibility.

I think chicks are pretty much the same as us blokes, with slightly different sense of values.

I could never ever be with a woman I didn't respect. I don't see the point, since I value intelligence, charm and wit almost as high as beauty and sexyness.

respect, trust, sacrifice and care. Love.

Without love all you have is a shagpartner (and someone to cook and clean) <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

Millennium · Jun 14, 2002, 04:53 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by andi*pandi:
1. Feminism isn't an industry, it's an ideology. The simple ideology that women are capable people.

<hr /></blockquote>I would argue that it's an ideology which has been industrialized. While you can still find plenty of people who actually follow the ideals, they're somewhat rarer than they used to be, and they don't get any media attention, which only makes things worse.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />2. Just because feminism exists, doesn't mean chivalry is dead. Chivalry is being polite, having manners. Is that so wrong? I'd hold a door open for you, would you do the same for me? <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Here you've got a point. The problem is, it's a very fine line between chivalry and chauvinism, and this wouldn't be so bad except that the line is drawn in a different location for every single woman you come across. It's like trying to seat 100 people for dinner where no two people of the same religion, political party, sexual orientation, or gender may sit next to one another, and all of the guests are schizophrenic.

At my girlfriend's old college, I managed to gather something of a reputation for myself; people would call me The White Knight (my girlfriend ended up in the role of The Fairy Princess, which she wasn't sure what to think of). I'm told I'm polite almost to the point of being archaic; just enough to be sweet without being annoying. Apparently I hit that line quite well. I'd offer advice except that I have no idea how the heck I managed to do it, and probably couldn't duplicate the feat even if I tried.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Opening a pickle jar does not refute feminism.<hr /></blockquote>No, but an environment where women are not encouraged to develop decent grip and wrist strength certainly might.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />3. Feminism is about knowing that PEOPLE, at the core, are equal, if they do the same work, they deserve the same pay... I have NEVER once heard a woman say, "I can't work those hours cuz I'm a GIRL." Dumbass.<hr /></blockquote>While I've never seen that one in particular, I have seen women try to play the chivalry card in order to get out of doing something they don't want to do. It's quite annoying.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />4. The few girls I know who still act, well, girly, do it because they think men like it--men feel more macho around wimpy little girls. (I call them girls because they haven't earned the right to be called women.) Example: the girl who introduced me to my husband told me before the first date, "wear something pink, that outfit you wore last week, men like that." Thank god I didn't listen and wore jeans and my leather jacket! He wasn't like the men she dated at all, for which I'm extremely grateful... her men always loved and left her, played mind games, were inaccessable, and basically just wanted sex. I got the much better deal. Without wearing pink.<hr /></blockquote>Not all women are "girly" because they think men like it. Femme lesbians would be the easiest example to point out, but others exist. You're right, though, that most are simply out to catch a man.

But, who can blame them? Go to any supermarket and look at the covers for magazines like Cosmopolitan, Vogue, Elle, or whatever equivalents they happen to carry (and carry them they most certainly will). I dare you to find any such magazine that does not have "How To Drive Him Wild In Bed" or "How To Trap the Man of Your Dreams" or something to that effect on the cover, every single issue, every single month. And these magazines are supposed to be progressive?

Lerkfish · Jun 14, 2002, 05:02 PM

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN

(this is the short version as I don't have a lot of time, overgeneralizations to follow--if you have a history of problems with women, this is tailored for you...obviously not all men or women fit these descriptions exactly)

Men are very un-subtle creatures. They expect direct communications (such as "move the chair over there" "I want to go out to dinner"). When they don't get direct communications, they are confused as to what is expected of them in a relationship.

Women are extremely subtle creatures and are good at picking up hints and cues. They expect the men in their lives to be good at picking up clues. (such as "why doesn't he automatically know I'm mad and what I'm mad about--I've dropped every hint I can think of"). When the men in their lives don't get hints, they are confused as to what is expected of then in a relationship.

Men like to solve problems. Women like to discuss problems. Men sometimes don't realize that when a woman discusses a problem with them, they need to just let her talk it out without trying come up with a solution. That frustrates women who really need a sympathetic ear. Men think by coming up with solutions they are helping, essentially both are working at cross purposes without realizing it.

Women need to feel as if they are the center of attention, not just acceptable. That is why the answer "fine" to the question "how do I look?" is not desirable. Even though to the man, fine means great, wonderful, to a woman "fine" means barely adequate. The man MEANS wonderful, but says fine, the woman hears "fine" and thinks "dumpy".

You cannot win an argument with a woman, you only postpone it at best. Since you can't win, don't try. This is not a criticism of women, but merely that men like to WIN arguments for the sake of being right, and women will bide their time to get what they want, whether they can be proven right in the argument or not. Men don't get this, they think winning the verbal argument is everything, meanwhile, the woman has successfully figured out some way to actually obtain a goal instead of wasting her time arguing about it.

Wonder why women seem to be way ahead of you in a relationship? because they are. The reason for this is because they are always thinking about the relationship. Its sort of like stepping into the ring with Mike Tyson...he'll beat you because he's been training and you haven't. If you want to be on equal footing, you HAVE to spend time on the relationship, paying attention to clues she's dropping, putting yourself in her shoes at all times, being considerate, compassionate and loving. If you cannot do this, you will always have failed relationships, you might as well get used to it. If you don't want to change and think "the woman should be the way I want her to be, durn it" and be real stubborn about it, you lose.

Likewise, women have a blind spot in relationships, they feel they can change a man to suit themselves, and men simply don't change much most of the time. The woman keeps hanging out, for a time, waiting for the change that never happens. Finally, it sinks in and she delivers ultimatums out of frustration, and then the relationship is essentially over.

the above are generalizations about where some differences in thinking between men and women cause problems. Obviously, you can overcome or avoid these problems, but these are the areas where they occur.

some helpful advice on relationships with women:

A woman in a relationship is not a sex partner, she is a friend partner.
Understand the difference. If you would not pick her FIRST to accompany you on every thing you do because you enjoy her company as a friend above all other friends, there is no point, and the relationship will fail.

If you cannot deal with her with respect, only a person who has no respect with themselves will stick around. If you cannot respect your partner, you don't deserve them, pure and simple. If you cannot get to a point where you can respect them, then either its a bad match or you need some remedial person skills.

Everyone, no matter who they are or what sex they are, DESERVE to be the complete object of desire (not just sexual) of their partner, the person that the other person wants to be with more than anything. If you cannot offer that to another person, you cannot fairly expect them to offer that to you.

I have more but I've got to go....

BlackGriffen · Jun 14, 2002, 05:07 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by voodoo:
That's far fetched. 'bout that abuse thing. It's no rule. I'll grant you there is a slight possibility.
<hr /></blockquote>Yeah, I know what you mean, but if you've heard how many times Drew hit it right on the nose with this one, you'd probably be convinced, too. Here are a couple of links from his web site ( <a href="http://www.drdrew.com" target="_blank">http://www.drdrew.com</a> ):
<a href="http://www.drdrew.com/Topics/article.asp?id=1054" target="_blank">Emotional Abuse</a>
<a href="http://www.drdrew.com/Topics/article.asp?id=1017" target="_blank">Could my Parents be the Reason my Relationships Fail?</a>

Regardless, if the girl mentioned was being honest, she did need to seek help, badly.

BlackGriffen

imafreak · Jun 19, 2002, 03:53 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lerkfish:
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN

(this is the short version as I don't have a lot of time, overgeneralizations to follow--if you have a history of problems with women, this is tailored for you...obviously not all men or women fit these descriptions exactly)

Men are very un-subtle creatures. They expect direct communications (such as "move the chair over there" "I want to go out to dinner"). When they don't get direct communications, they are confused as to what is expected of them in a relationship.

Women are extremely subtle creatures and are good at picking up hints and cues. They expect the men in their lives to be good at picking up clues. (such as "why doesn't he automatically know I'm mad and what I'm mad about--I've dropped every hint I can think of"). When the men in their lives don't get hints, they are confused as to what is expected of then in a relationship.

Men like to solve problems. Women like to discuss problems. Men sometimes don't realize that when a woman discusses a problem with them, they need to just let her talk it out without trying come up with a solution. That frustrates women who really need a sympathetic ear. Men think by coming up with solutions they are helping, essentially both are working at cross purposes without realizing it.

Women need to feel as if they are the center of attention, not just acceptable. That is why the answer "fine" to the question "how do I look?" is not desirable. Even though to the man, fine means great, wonderful, to a woman "fine" means barely adequate. The man MEANS wonderful, but says fine, the woman hears "fine" and thinks "dumpy".

You cannot win an argument with a woman, you only postpone it at best. Since you can't win, don't try. This is not a criticism of women, but merely that men like to WIN arguments for the sake of being right, and women will bide their time to get what they want, whether they can be proven right in the argument or not. Men don't get this, they think winning the verbal argument is everything, meanwhile, the woman has successfully figured out some way to actually obtain a goal instead of wasting her time arguing about it.

Wonder why women seem to be way ahead of you in a relationship? because they are. The reason for this is because they are always thinking about the relationship. Its sort of like stepping into the ring with Mike Tyson...he'll beat you because he's been training and you haven't. If you want to be on equal footing, you HAVE to spend time on the relationship, paying attention to clues she's dropping, putting yourself in her shoes at all times, being considerate, compassionate and loving. If you cannot do this, you will always have failed relationships, you might as well get used to it. If you don't want to change and think "the woman should be the way I want her to be, durn it" and be real stubborn about it, you lose.

Likewise, women have a blind spot in relationships, they feel they can change a man to suit themselves, and men simply don't change much most of the time. The woman keeps hanging out, for a time, waiting for the change that never happens. Finally, it sinks in and she delivers ultimatums out of frustration, and then the relationship is essentially over.

the above are generalizations about where some differences in thinking between men and women cause problems. Obviously, you can overcome or avoid these problems, but these are the areas where they occur.

some helpful advice on relationships with women:

A woman in a relationship is not a sex partner, she is a friend partner.
Understand the difference. If you would not pick her FIRST to accompany you on every thing you do because you enjoy her company as a friend above all other friends, there is no point, and the relationship will fail.

If you cannot deal with her with respect, only a person who has no respect with themselves will stick around. If you cannot respect your partner, you don't deserve them, pure and simple. If you cannot get to a point where you can respect them, then either its a bad match or you need some remedial person skills.

Everyone, no matter who they are or what sex they are, DESERVE to be the complete object of desire (not just sexual) of their partner, the person that the other person wants to be with more than anything. If you cannot offer that to another person, you cannot fairly expect them to offer that to you.

I have more but I've got to go....<hr /></blockquote>Very true! When you can find the time - please write more on the subject.
You are the man!

Monique · Jun 19, 2002, 04:07 PM

The main difference is that most women let the emotions direct their decisions.

And men do not care as long as their woman is thin and not too bright.

Millennium · Jun 19, 2002, 05:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Monique:
The main difference is that most women let the emotions direct their decisions.

And men do not care as long as their woman is thin and not too bright.<hr /></blockquote>You do realize, Monique, that your stereotype of women is the same one most misogynists use to justify their absurd claims, don't you?

Not that your stereotype of men is much more flattering. I could name more than a few men on the forums who don't fit it, myself included. Yes, my girlfriend is thin (to the point where it's caused me some concern lately, to be perfectly honest). But she's absolutely brilliant, probably smarter than I am, and certainly wiser.

And I am not the exception, Monique, at least not in most parts of the world. I am the rule. I don't claim to know your situation; perhaps you were unlucky enough to be surrounded by some of the worse examples of our gender out there. I've had the displeasure of knowing a few of these myself. But by and large, we have evolved past that, if it was ever a part of our natural tendency in the first place (and I don't believe it was).

Tigerabbit · Jun 19, 2002, 06:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Monique:
The main difference is that most women let the emotions direct their decisions.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry, doesn't apply. My emotions direct decisions only when logic either fails, is not applicable, or cannot discern between two or more alternatives. Otherwise, logic and emotion serve as check-and-balance for each other. I suspect a lot of other people are similar, whether they recognize it or not.

TonyRado · Jun 19, 2002, 07:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Monique:
And men do not care as long as their woman is thin and not too bright.<hr /></blockquote>Not to be unnecessarily adversarial, but I disagree. I want my chick to be thin and bright.

btw, did you find a job yet?