Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

analogika · Mar 3, 2006, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

1) Most of those links are repeating the exact same study...

2) ...which was probably carried out by dog owners.

3) American cats must be seriously different than my cats then. Really, it's ultra-rare that my cats get a bird.

Have you considered that you might not actually SEE them get each and every bird?

Cats are prohibited from being let to roam outside for a few months each year here, when it's nesting time.

You'll have a hard time convincing anybody that your noble felines will avoid a flightless chick sitting in a nest in a bush.

FireWire · Mar 3, 2006, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

For those of you who couldn't see the video (even though I assume that most of the people here are sophisticated Mac users and would be able to figure ANYTHING out and somehow would be able to figure out how to watch the video) the video shows greyhounds chasing down a screaming rabbit and ripping it apart, very slowly, while the rabbit screams in terror and agony.

Ever heard a rabbit scream?

It sounds just like a human little girl.

The video is horrible. Doofy is right. And anyone who thinks it doesn't matter is just plain wrong - it does.

I consider myself "sophisticated" enough to be able to watch about anything I would like to watch, yet I couldn't see this one (without spending an entire evening or compromising my system's stability). The WMP plug-in slows down Safari and sometimes renders it unstable. The Flip4Mac solution is a big no-no, according to the reports here. What is left to the more adventurous is to look at the source code of the page, in the hope of seeing the file name and grabbing it manually. Unfortunately, CNN blocks it in a different way, which results in this source being available:

Code:
 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
	<title>CNN.com</title>
	<script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript" src="http://i.cnn.net/cnn/.element/ssi/js/1.3/videoplayer.js"></script>
	<link rel="stylesheet" href="http://i.cnn.net/cnn/.element/ssi/css/1.3/videoplayer.css" type="text/css" />		
</head>
<body id="cnnInterStitial">
<img src="http://i.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/1.3/video/broadband/player/detection/plugin_getplayer.gif" width="770" height="570" border="0" alt="" usemap="#plugin_getplayer_Map">
<map name="plugin_getplayer_Map" id="plugin_getplayer_Map">
<area shape="rect" alt="Get the Player" coords="309,371,456,417" href="http://www.windowsmedia.com/download" target="_blank" />
</map>

</body>
</html>

As you can see, there are no file names or any hints as to where to download the video. So you should eat your words and think about it next time instead of assuming that people are incompetent just because it works for you, and being arrogant about it.

As for the second part, how do you think the same rabbit would have screamed had he been eaten by wolves or foxes instead of "normal" dogs? One must not forget that this activity happens all day long in the wild, even in the woods behind your house...

Dogs are from the canidæ family, which is derived from their prominent canine teeth, which are used to tear through flesh, which is consistent with their carnivora order. Consequently, I fail to see what's so outrageous about this, and I think your closing sentence can be turned against you : "And anyone who thinks it is outrageous is just plain wrong -- it's not!"

That said, I agree that this video is probably horrible to watch, just as are those depicting lions eating defensless and vulnerable young gazelles, or spiders eating helpless and beautiful butterflies. Life is life!

andreas_g4 · Mar 3, 2006, 08:54 PM

Only in humans brains™.

Doofy · Mar 3, 2006, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Have you considered that you might not actually SEE them get each and every bird?

Yep. Pretty sure they bring most of their catches back. There's usually feathers all over the place on the odd occasion they do grab a bird.

Originally Posted by analogika

Cats are prohibited from being let to roam outside for a few months each year here, when it's nesting time.

Strange old world, ain't it? Our government has just released a "feline rights" document which states that cats must be allowed to entertain themselves (i.e. be allowed out on the prowl) to keep their mental health intact.

Originally Posted by analogika

You'll have a hard time convincing anybody that your noble felines will avoid a flightless chick sitting in a nest in a bush.

I haven't got any bushes on my land. Just trees and hedges (hawthorn, cats won't go in there).

Originally Posted by FireWire

As for the second part, how do you think the same rabbit would have screamed had he been eaten by wolves or foxes instead of "normal" dogs? One must not forget that this activity happens all day long in the wild, even in the woods behind your house...

Dogs are from the canidæ family, which is derived from their prominent canine teeth, which are used to tear through flesh, which is consistent with their carnivora order. Consequently, I fail to see what's so outrageous about this, and I think your closing sentence can be turned against you : "And anyone who thinks it is outrageous is just plain wrong -- it's not!"

That said, I agree that this video is probably horrible to watch, just as are those depicting lions eating defensless and vulnerable young gazelles, or spiders eating helpless and beautiful butterflies. Life is life!

Point is, those lions and foxes are naturally there. It's a balanced equation. The dogs engaged in this sport are artificially placed into the environment which will cause the life cycle to get out of balance.

Ask Australia about cane toads for details about upsetting the natural balance.

aberdeenwriter · Mar 3, 2006, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Some of us are sophisticated and can figure out almost anything, but at the moment I'm stuck with quantum physics and plug-ins. Just give some of us slightly less sophisticated Mac users a bit more time and we'll catch up eventually in our yellow bus, promise.

macaddict0001 · Mar 3, 2006, 09:30 PM

How on earth could that be seen as immoral or unethical, What about eating plants that are still alive(aka "fresh"), just because they don't scream? Just because they have a different type of cell, because they aren't quite as aware of their environment? Aren't on our evolutionary level? Killing bacteria? How is this different, because bacteria only have a few cells? Are sometimes parasitic? Even humans, how is human life more valuable than animal or plant life? Life consumes resources, it is a liability, what would it hurt if there was two billion less people, who would care if they didn't know those people personally? In the end it comes down to your personal emotional attachment to something.

Dale Sorel · Mar 3, 2006, 09:36 PM

I say put one of those dogs in a field with a cougar and then see how tough they are

olePigeon · Mar 3, 2006, 09:45 PM

Well, there's your problem. You just need bigger rabbits.

aberdeenwriter · Mar 3, 2006, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Well, there's your problem. You just need bigger rabbits.

[img]http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/entertainment_enl_1138969867/img/1.jpg

THAT IS A HUGE RABBIT!

Does THIS count?

FireWire · 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Point is, those lions and foxes are naturally there. It's a balanced equation. The dogs engaged in this sport are artificially placed into the environment which will cause the life cycle to get out of balance.

You're right, it's being unfair to this rabbit in particular, because we choose which one is going to die, but not unlike what we're currently doing with the livestock or other animals meant for consumption: there are sheeps that live free and other that will end up in mittens and delicious lamb curries.. The act in itself is natural and not-so cruel if you keep in mind that the nature works this way all around the world. The same goes for the mice fed to domestic snakes, or crickets to salamanders.

[Edit] Evidently, the balance must remain under control, with the dispensing of hunting licences, like all other kinds of hunts. Dog or gun, it's the same for the rabbit population.

waxcrash · Mar 3, 2006, 11:36 PM

Rabbits are a funny thing because we treat them as food, a pet and pest by the same culture. It's interesting that people will get all upset over this, yet they probably would have no problem if the dogs went after something less desirable like a snake or mouse. To certain people this is an abomination because rabbits are furry, have a tail, are cute and hop.

aberdeenwriter · Mar 3, 2006, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by waxcrash

Rabbits are a funny thing because we treat them as food, a pet and pest by the same culture. It's interesting that people will get all upset over this, yet they probably would have no problem if the dogs went after something less desirable like a snake or mouse. To certain people this is an abomination because rabbits are furry, have a tail, are cute and hop.

I agree. The difference between a cockroach and a lady bug is...???

analogika · Mar 4, 2006, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

I agree. The difference between a cockroach and a lady bug is...???

Lady bugs are beneficial because they eat pests.

Cockroaches are pests because they live where we live and eat what we eat, liberally excreting over it while they scurry through our pantries.

I, for one, think they're both very pretty, though I prefer the large Asian cockroaches to the tiny European ones we get here. I don't want them in my house, though.

analogika · Mar 4, 2006, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

I say put one of those dogs' OWNERS in a field with a cougar and then see how tough they are

Corrected.

It's not like any of this is the dogs' fault.

FireWire · Mar 4, 2006, 05:52 AM

Slightly off-topic but still related to the original question and the latest discussions (and definitively interesting) : they are using a cockroach to control a robot, which spins a trackball-like device to make the robot move. To make it change its course in case there's an obstacle, they use an array of LED to "scare" him and make him go to the opposite direction. Is this ethical?

aberdeenwriter · 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Lady bugs are beneficial because they eat pests.

Cockroaches are pests because they live where we live and eat what we eat, liberally excreting over it while they scurry through our pantries.

I, for one, think they're both very pretty, though I prefer the large Asian cockroaches to the tiny European ones we get here. I don't want them in my house, though.

I THINK I agree.

[removed oversize image --tooki]

Here's a cockroach FAQ list!

http://www.bio.umass.edu/biology/kun...h_faq.html#Q23

Why do males have shorter wings?
How do you sex cockroaches?
Desperately seeking Blaberus giganteus?
Do cockroaches sleep?
Are cockroaches resistant to radiation?
Why do cockroaches die on their backs?
Do cockroaches bite?
Is there a non-toxic way to kill cockroaches?
American cockroach lifespan?
Blaberus discoidalis lifespan?
Lobsters called "roaches of the sea"?
Are cockroaches really clean?
Can cockroaches live without their head?
Do cockroaches make sounds?
Green cockroach?
20 lb cockroach?
Live cockroach in beer bottle?
Do cockroaches fly?
Do cockroaches respond to light?
Could cockroach eggs hatch from an infected tongue?
How do cockroaches breathe?
Is the cockroach's brain spread around its body?
What are cockroaches good for?
Albino cockroaches?
Do cockroaches hibernate?
Why GERMAN cockroach?
Cockroach survival in cold climates?
What do cockroaches eat?
Do cockroach eggs survive being stepped on?
Are cockroaches members of the Carp (fish) Family?
Color of cockroach blood?
Do cockroaches like air conditioning?
Are single cockroach sightings scouts?
How big is a cockroach baby?
Trouble maintaining cockroaches sent to Albany?
Do cockroaches have a support system?
Is the cockroach exoskeleton an improvement over the worm hydrostatic skeleton?
Could cockroaches develop albino mutants in the wild? Are they rare?
How do Cockroaches Digest and what organs do they use to do so?
Do cockroaches glow under black light? Are they flourescent?
Can cockroaches predict earthquakes?
What would cockroach vision be like?
How can I tell if a cockroach is breathing?
What is the reason for cockroach swarming?
Do male and female cockroaches of the same size have the same blood volume?
Where did the cockroach get its name?
What is the cockroach reproductive cycle?
Roach control safe and non-toxic for an invalid and companion dog.
Do cockroaches have emotions?
Cockroach ranches producing methane?
Can the headless cockroach mate and give birth?
Is a headless cockroach still alive if it does not move?
Do cockroaches have any symbiotic relationships?
Australian cockroaches in the USA?
Are cockroaches social?
How fast are cockroaches?
Why do cockroaches cause childhood asthma?

Q23: Nick writes:
I am deathly afraid of cockroaches and it may soothe my fear a little if I knew they had a purpose. What are cockroaches good for?

A: Nick,
Fear of domestic cockroach pests is perhaps warranted because they have been associated with the development of childhood asthma and thus it is better not to have them in your home environment.
Cockroaches as a group are part of the worldwide food web. They are omnivore scavengers which clean up our environment and help recycle the organic litter that would accumulate if it were not decomposed by organisms which include cockroaches. Furthermore they serve as food for small mammals, birds, amphibians and lizards. There are over 3000 species of cockroaches and only 10 species are on the World Health Organization list of human pests. The other 3000 species are welcome members of the biodiversity on this planet.

Chris O'Brien · Mar 4, 2006, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by FireWire

I consider myself "sophisticated" enough to be able to watch about anything I would like to watch, yet I couldn't see this one (without spending an entire evening or compromising my system's stability). The WMP plug-in slows down Safari and sometimes renders it unstable. The Flip4Mac solution is a big no-no, according to the reports here. What is left to the more adventurous is to look at the source code of the page, in the hope of seeing the file name and grabbing it manually. Unfortunately, CNN blocks it in a different way, which results in this source being available:

Code:
 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
	<title>CNN.com</title>
	<script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript" src="http://i.cnn.net/cnn/.element/ssi/js/1.3/videoplayer.js"></script>
	<link rel="stylesheet" href="http://i.cnn.net/cnn/.element/ssi/css/1.3/videoplayer.css" type="text/css" />		
</head>
<body id="cnnInterStitial">
<img src="http://i.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/1.3/video/broadband/player/detection/plugin_getplayer.gif" width="770" height="570" border="0" alt="" usemap="#plugin_getplayer_Map">
<map name="plugin_getplayer_Map" id="plugin_getplayer_Map">
<area shape="rect" alt="Get the Player" coords="309,371,456,417" href="http://www.windowsmedia.com/download" target="_blank" />
</map>

</body>
</html>

As you can see, there are no file names or any hints as to where to download the video. So you should eat your words and think about it next time instead of assuming that people are incompetent just because it works for you, and being arrogant about it.

As for the second part, how do you think the same rabbit would have screamed had he been eaten by wolves or foxes instead of "normal" dogs? One must not forget that this activity happens all day long in the wild, even in the woods behind your house...

Dogs are from the canidæ family, which is derived from their prominent canine teeth, which are used to tear through flesh, which is consistent with their carnivora order. Consequently, I fail to see what's so outrageous about this, and I think your closing sentence can be turned against you : "And anyone who thinks it is outrageous is just plain wrong -- it's not!"

That said, I agree that this video is probably horrible to watch, just as are those depicting lions eating defensless and vulnerable young gazelles, or spiders eating helpless and beautiful butterflies. Life is life!

The video is here. It's an mms:// link so it'll open it straight in window media player if you have it installed.

I cheated and used `tcpflow` to see what it was requesting

Mastrap · Mar 4, 2006, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by FireWire

The WMP plug-in slows down Safari and sometimes renders it unstable. The Flip4Mac solution is a big no-no, according to the reports here.

Just to mention this, I run flip4mac on all of my machines, with no trouble whatsoever.

Dale Sorel · Mar 4, 2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Corrected.

It's not like any of this is the dogs' fault.

Agreed... frakin' dog owners

besson3c · Mar 4, 2006, 09:40 PM

Flip4Mac doesn't handle streaming WMV content, but this particular clip is not streaming. Flip4Mac/Quicktime will play it just fine.