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Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Atheist

I think this is just a case of bad judgement on both sides.

iREZ · Nov 17, 2006, 01:49 PM

if an individual is on the floor in handcuffs...what warrants tasing the guy? every episode of cops that ive mistakenly seen has shown two cops yanking cuffed individuals from the floor and into their cars with lil effort. there were 5-6 cops around this cuffed kid...why not just drag him out the library WITHOUT tasing, its not like the tasing aided them in getting him out. people who think its justified are retarded. sure hes loud and causing a scene, sure hes not cooperating...but a tasing for all of this? ive seen worse crimes handled with less abuse.

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Well, when they have a video of a guy being tazed by bouncers your point will be relevant.

How about: first rule when dealing with the authorities is cooperate and speak respectfully so their are no "misunderstandings".

They weren't over the line in taking his arm on the way out. (the word "grabbing" is too suggestive and speculative. We don't really if he was "grabbed" roughly or not)

Point being is that he was heading towards the exit when security arrived. There was no need to touch him. They should have followed him out of the building and been done with it.

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Atheist

If you give police officers a non-lethal weapon. They will use it. I don't think anyone can question that. The issue is that in many situations, they will probably use it when they don't need to. What did cops do BEFORE they had tazers. I would wager they could have diffused the situation without the use of the tazer. That said, I think the guy was an ass. He was asking for trouble, all he had to do was cooperate. But he chose the Path of Stupidity. I think this is just a case of bad judgement on both sides.

I agree that the cops could have handled it a little better.

My beef is with the ridiculous idea that this was "abuse" or "brutality".

turtle777 · Nov 17, 2006, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

and then threatened to shoot a girl who was rationally asking for their badge numbers

That girl should be deported. She must be a terrorist as well.
She co-conspired with the guy.

Duh.

-t

Chuckit · Nov 17, 2006, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

How about: first rule when dealing with the authorities is cooperate and speak respectfully so their are no "misunderstandings".

Yes, he could have handled the situation better. That does not excuse the cops' atrocious behavior. I hold police officers to a higher standard than I do UCLA students, and these cops' decision to unnecessarily make the situation physical, shoot him while he's down and then threaten innocent bystanders is worse than the student's behavior by any measure.

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Point being is that he was heading towards the exit when security arrived. There was no need to touch him. They should have followed him out of the building and been done with it.

They should have maybe, yes, but they didn't and they were acting within their rights as far as I'm concerned. They didn't grab him by the hair and drag him, they were "walking" him and he flipped out.

Demonhood · Nov 17, 2006, 01:59 PM

some reports were saying he was already tazed once when the video started. hard to tell.

but it's a UC library, so there should be cameras that got a better angle than this guy's camera phone.

Chuckit · Nov 17, 2006, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

They should have maybe, yes, but they didn't and they were acting within their rights as far as I'm concerned. They didn't grab him by the hair and drag him, they were "walking" him and he flipped out.

So it's OK when paid public servants misunderstand somebody else's actions and shoot him, but not when some student misunderstands somebody else's actions and berates them? For real, are you joking here?

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

They should have maybe, yes, but they didn't and they were acting within their rights as far as I'm concerned. They didn't grab him by the hair and drag him, they were "walking" him and he flipped out.

What caused him to "flip out" was them touching him upon them entering the building. That was their first action. not attempting to walk him out.

turtle777 · Nov 17, 2006, 02:02 PM

I'm scared.

Both sides knee-jerked. People do it all the time.

I'm scared when armed police men do it.

-t

Chuckit · Nov 17, 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

I'm scared.

Both sides knee-jerked. People do it all the time.

I'm scared when armed police men do it.

My point exactly. And at least he seemed to be knee-jerking nonviolently.

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 02:08 PM

Here's a question I've been mulling over:

If he was white, would it have happened this way?

I'm not trying to play a race card, but currently people are scared of anyone from the ME. Most Americans can't distinguish Iranian from Pakistani from Iraqi.

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by iREZ

if an individual is on the floor in handcuffs...what warrants tasing the guy? every episode of cops that ive mistakenly seen has shown two cops yanking cuffed individuals from the floor and into their cars with lil effort. there were 5-6 cops around this cuffed kid...why not just drag him out the library WITHOUT tasing, its not like the tasing aided them in getting him out. people who think its justified are retarded. sure hes loud and causing a scene, sure hes not cooperating...but a tasing for all of this? ive seen worse crimes handled with less abuse.

I don't think it's a cops duty to carry an unruly asshole down stairs and through a large building when the guy is perfectly capable of walking.

Stradlater · Nov 17, 2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I've been offered bribes to let underage people in but that goes against my ethics.

Also the law?

turtle777 · Nov 17, 2006, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Also the law?

Maybe that was not the point of his hesitation ?

-t

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

What caused him to "flip out" was them touching him upon them entering the building. That was their first action. not attempting to walk him out.

I thought that they took his arm on his way out and then he started screaming?

So, it's OK to flip out when a cop touches you? I see now. I was wrong. If I'm ever touched by a cop I will start screaming "DON'T TOUCH ME! DON'T ****ING TOUCH ME!" at the top of my lungs. Then they will apologize and leave me alone.

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

I thought that they took his arm on his way out and then he started screaming?

So, it's OK to flip out when a cop touches you? I see now. I was wrong. If I'm ever touched by a cop I will start screaming "DON'T TOUCH ME! DON'T ****ING TOUCH ME!" at the top of my lungs. Then they will apologize and leave me alone.

You're still not getting it.

He was on his way out of the building when they arrived. There was no need to touch/grab him.

The whole situation was handled poorly from both sides.

Dakar² · Nov 17, 2006, 02:22 PM

Student: douchébag
University Cops: douchébags with tazers

Person Man · Nov 17, 2006, 02:22 PM

Every police officer who gets issued a taser should be tased for 3-5 seconds themselves to see how it feels/how the body reacts, etc before being allowed to carry one. Then they would see that the guy probably COULDN'T get up after being tased.

Dakar² · Nov 17, 2006, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Person Man

Every police officer who gets issued a taser should be tased for 3-5 seconds themselves to see how it feels/how the body reacts, etc before being allowed to carry one.

They usually are.

Doofy · Nov 17, 2006, 02:26 PM

1) Awful lot of acting going on from the perp.

2) UCLA? I'd have tasered the lot of them. Everyone. And their moms.

Stradlater · Nov 17, 2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

They usually are.

Ideally, maybe, but do you know if this is usually the case?

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

You're still not getting it.

He was on his way out of the building when they arrived. There was no need to touch/grab him.

The whole situation was handled poorly from both sides.

No, I do get it. All these cops did to provoke him was to take him by the arm and he started ranting and raving. They were perfectly within their right to take him by the arm and walk him out but he decided to flip out. Was he high? was he mentally ill? How would they know? HE is the one who overreacted.

Yet all the attention is focused on undeserved allegations of "abuse". Ridiculous.

I don't know why I am arguing. I don't think I can make myself any clearer.

Gossamer · Nov 17, 2006, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Ideally, maybe, but do you know if this is usually the case?

Originally Posted by Dakar²

They usually are.

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 02:29 PM

Usually

Chuckit · 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

So, it's OK to flip out when a cop touches you? I see now. I was wrong. If I'm ever touched by a cop I will start screaming "DON'T TOUCH ME! DON'T ****ING TOUCH ME!" at the top of my lungs. Then they will apologize and leave me alone.

They didn't have to leave him alone. They just had to not touch him if it wasn't necessary. I don't see why it's an unreasonable request not to be manhandled. As the professional peacekeepers in this situation, I expect them to be the reasonable ones even if he's a little ticked.

Heck, these cops threatened to shoot a girl just for walking up and asking a question. If that's a reasonable provocation for violence, this guy would have been within his rights to punch the cop, but all he did was chide them. So again, why is it OK for peace officers to be violent hotheads and not OK for a student just to yell?

Originally Posted by smacintush

No, I do get it. All these cops did to provoke him was to take him by the arm and he started ranting and raving. They were perfectly within their right to take him by the arm and walk him out but he decided to flip out. Was he high? was he mentally ill? How would they know? HE is the one who overreacted.

Yet all the attention is focused on undeserved allegations of "abuse". Ridiculous.

I don't know why I am arguing. I don't think I can make myself any clearer.

Yes. You believe that responding to nonviolence with unnecessary violence is acceptable as long as the attacked party seemed upset. I was taught to use words, not electrocute people. I guess it's just a difference in our upbringing.

Chuckit · 02:38 PM

[consolidated]

Dakar² · Nov 17, 2006, 02:32 PM

Some people don't notice I choose my qualifiers carefully.

Doofy · Nov 17, 2006, 02:32 PM

And when another Iranian walks into another uni library without ID, doesn't get confronted, doesn't get tasered and 10 minutes later the whole place goes boom...

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

As long as we're on the subject, do I have the right to electrocute you anytime you ask a question I don't like?

Your premise is false, that's not what happened here so I guess the answer is no.

Stradlater · Nov 17, 2006, 02:34 PM

Firsthand account: Tucker Max Message Board - The UCLA beat-down: We have a witness

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

No, I do get it. All these cops did to provoke him was to take him by the arm and he started ranting and raving. They were perfectly within their right to take him by the arm and walk him out but he decided to flip out. Was he high? was he mentally ill? How would they know? HE is the one who overreacted.

Yet all the attention is focused on undeserved allegations of "abuse". Ridiculous.

I don't know why I am arguing. I don't think I can make myself any clearer.

So they were in line including tazing him after he's handcuffed?

Doofy · Nov 17, 2006, 02:37 PM

Oooo... Missed this one.

Originally Posted by natnabour

I found the video to be so disturbing - I won't deny that I sat for about 5 minutes & cried my eyes out.

Ummm... ...grow up?

Originally Posted by natnabour

What the **** is wrong with people? Seriously.

....

I really hope this guy causes the biggest riot known to man kind.

So, you hope that this causes a larger riot than the '92 riots, in which 52 innocent people were killed? And you ask what's wrong with people?

No control of their emotions, that's what's wrong with people.

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Yes. You believe that responding to nonviolence with unnecessary violence is acceptable as long as the attacked party seemed upset. I was taught to use words, not electrocute people. I guess it's just a difference in our upbringing.

So, now a COP taking someone who doesn't belong in the library by the arm is an ATTACK?

Also, you need to look up "electrocute". That's not what happened here either. Tazers don't generally do more than cause pain.

I see your point about upbringing though, I was raised not to assault cops.

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Firsthand account: Tucker Max Message Board - The UCLA beat-down: We have a witness

When the cops initially asked him to leave he was limp like a drunk's dick.

Hmmm…so much for cooperation…

Stradlater · Nov 17, 2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Some people don't notice I choose my qualifiers carefully.

I used the same qualifier to merely confirm that this is "usually" the case. Wondering if you had examples or assumed based on rules.

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Firsthand account: Tucker Max Message Board - The UCLA beat-down: We have a witness

Those boards seem a bit biased...

smacintush · Nov 17, 2006, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Those boards seem a bit biased...

Yeah, so is this one.

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Yeah, so is this one.

It's cause Mac users are

Tuoder · Nov 17, 2006, 03:11 PM

The bit about the PATRIOT act bit made him sound like an ass. But I don't care how much of an ass or a ********* a guy is, you don't repeatedly taze an incapacitated student. That is just too much. You also don't respond to the disgust of students with threats. Some people need it pointed out to them that they will be held accountable for their actions. Holding police accountable for brutaltiy does not worsen the situation, it improves it.

bstone · Nov 17, 2006, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

The tazer was too far, I agree, but I don't understand something. Why didn't the idiot freaking cooperate with the guys? Just stand up, and go along with them. Get the matter cleared up, and go about your business. They went too far with the tazer, but the student was dumb as a rock for not cooperating.

Side note: why do campus police officers have tazers?

He said he would. He kept saying he would leave. According to eyewitness reports he was carrying his bag and leaving the library when police arrived and began tazing him.

It is painfully clear that these cops are on a complete power trip. They go into this tunnel vision view and use potentially deadly force (tazing). They create problems where NONE previous existed.

This is why I am a complete fan of civilian oversight boards which have COMPLETE control over police departments.

And in the end, the one cop who told another student "back up or you'll get tazed, too". Wow....just wow.

G4ME · 03:21 PM

it should have gone something like this

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mod...&v=PQVE3xiJI9U

by what that other board said, it was student cops, and no offense to any one but they can't be much higher on the food chain then renta cops, and they made some bad choices

but he still provoked them

bstone · Nov 17, 2006, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Hmmm…a loud and unruly person refuses to identify himself and cooperate and he gets tazed. He STILL resists and he gets it again. STILL he resists…um who's the moron here?

The "cops" were perfectly justified IMO. They have a right and duty to act to protect themselves and others in dealing with an unknown person in an unpredictable situation.

Flame on.

Go and read the eyewitness reports. They say before the cops arrived he was carrying his bag and leaving the library when the cops stopped him, grabbed him and began tazing him while handcuffing him. Perhaps he did forget his ID and perhaps he was being indignant for a brief minute, but he was leaving like he was asked to.

All of those cops, IMO, should be fired and jailed. Each of them.

Kevin · Nov 17, 2006, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Student: douchébag
University Cops: douchébags with tazers

winner

bstone · Nov 17, 2006, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

So, now a COP taking someone who doesn't belong in the library by the arm is an ATTACK?

Also, you need to look up "electrocute". That's not what happened here either. Tazers don't generally do more than cause pain.

I see your point about upbringing though, I was raised not to assault cops.

Tasers have caused 167 documented deaths in the past several years.
167 cases of death following stun-gun use

The autopsy report says Craig died of a heart attack during an episode of delirium "following electrical shock from Taser while resisting arrest.

non-lethal....right.

G4ME · Nov 17, 2006, 03:38 PM

compared to guns?

staticstics can always be biased

Rumor · Nov 17, 2006, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

Go and read the eyewitness reports. They say before the cops arrived he was carrying his bag and leaving the library when the cops stopped him, grabbed him and began tazing him while handcuffing him. Perhaps he did forget his ID and perhaps he was being indignant for a brief minute, but he was leaving like he was asked to.

All of those cops, IMO, should be fired and jailed. Each of them.

I've tried to point that out four or five times. Good luck.

Jawbone54 · Nov 17, 2006, 03:56 PM

From HERE

Okay kids, I'm here!

Yes, I was indeed at Powell Library at approximately 11:30 on Tuesday night, and yes I did see the entire event as it went down.

Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his *** kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students...this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he's the kind of guy that loves to make trouble.

Just as a little backstory, one of the quotes the guy has on his facebook (which he now has taken down) was "I like to find the most difficult solutions to the simplest of problems".

He definitely taunted the UCPD into behaving the way they did with him.

Edit: Many people have questioned the fact that the cops tazed him and asked him to get up, and tazed him again even though he shouldn't have the capability to get up. This was not the case here to my knowledge, because the cops were using their "drive-stun" method which administers less of a jolt than normal. I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up.

Ignore all of the above.

natnabour · Nov 17, 2006, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

The point is that they weren't being abusive at all. Number one, as you pointed out they gave him a zillion chances to stand the f*ck up and walk out. He wouldn't.

Number two, they used the tool they were given to subdue someone WITHOUT resorting to abusive means.

Ever thought that the reason he wasn't standing is because he COULDN'T stand BECAUSE he was being tasered over & over again? And you hear the cop saying over & over again that if he doesn't stand up, he'd be tasered.....again. Makes absolutely no sense to me.