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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Official Friday Thread: 4th of July Weekend Edition: Why I hate America

Official Friday Thread: 4th of July Weekend Edition: Why I hate America
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jul 1, 2011, 12:23 PM
 
1. Phillips screw heads! ArrrghghhghghghghH!H!!!!!! Stop! Just stop! They suck!

That is all.

greg
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SpaceMonkey
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Jul 1, 2011, 12:25 PM
 
Keep it in the Political Lounge, pal.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
turtle777
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Jul 1, 2011, 12:26 PM
 
You in Canuckistan only use hammer and nails ?

-t
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Jul 1, 2011, 12:27 PM
 
Are you kidding? Flat head screws are so much worse its not funny. And with Phillips the diameter of the screw driver doesn't matter. Just make sure you've got the right one, there are 2 Phillips heads.
     
Big Mac
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Jul 1, 2011, 12:30 PM
 
Yeah, I don't get Phillips hatred.

Happy Canada Day.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Jul 1, 2011, 12:36 PM
 
Have you guys ever put in a screw? Or taken one out? You're right - the only thing more terrible than a flathead is a Phillips. Waaay to easy to strip!

The Robertson is so superior it isn't funny. But why do You People insist otherwise?!?
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turtle777
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Jul 1, 2011, 12:39 PM
 
Tools and Robertson screws are also so much more expensive, it isn't funny

-t
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 1, 2011, 12:43 PM
 
Excellent Friday thread.
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Jul 1, 2011, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Have you guys ever put in a screw? Or taken one out? You're right - the only thing more terrible than a flathead is a Phillips. Waaay to easy to strip!

The Robertson is so superior it isn't funny. But why do You People insist otherwise?!?
"was purposely designed to cam out when the screw stalled" -wikipedia
1. Stop using a drill / impact wrench with screws.
2. If you want it countersunk, pre-drill.

Roberstson? ...google.. why can't you just say square head like everyone else?
     
Laminar
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Jul 1, 2011, 01:35 PM
 
Allen head. Every chance I get, I convert my bikes to stainless allen head hardware. I've Dremeled out so many stripped screws it's not even funny. One reason is that Japanese bikes used JIS screws which are like Phillips, but easier to strip, especially if you use a Phillips driver on it.

If you're having problems, a manual impact driver will work wonders on Phillips and flathead.

     
phantomdragonz
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Jul 1, 2011, 01:36 PM
 
the issue with phillips is the designed flaw of intentional caming out, but what irks me is that it's nearly impossible to find a JISdriver when you need one. just about any electrical or foreign mechanical device (cars,motorcycles, electronics) use the JIS standard because they are not designed to cam out. I have some JIS bits and it solves a lot of frustration that I have had with the phillips heads and especially the phillips bit in a JIS screw.

I would be pleased if america went to the JIS standard, or just dropped the phillips standard alltogether.

but thats like converting to metric, and that is never going to happen.

Laminar beat me to the JIS reference, damn
     
hayesk
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Jul 1, 2011, 02:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
"was purposely designed to cam out when the screw stalled" -wikipedia
1. Stop using a drill / impact wrench with screws.
2. If you want it countersunk, pre-drill.

Roberstson? ...google.. why can't you just say square head like everyone else?
Because Robertson and square head are different. Google it and see.
     
sek929
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Jul 1, 2011, 02:07 PM
 
I've put in more screws than everyone here combined.

Square drive and impact driver FTW.
     
iMOTOR
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Jul 1, 2011, 02:24 PM
 
One word: Torx.
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Jul 1, 2011, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I've put in more screws than everyone here combined.

Square drive and impact driver FTW.
Bam. America [email protected]@!!!!
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glideslope
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Jul 1, 2011, 07:20 PM
 
10D Common.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.”
Sun Tzu
     
AKcrab
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Jul 2, 2011, 02:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by iMOTOR View Post
One word: Torx.
Totally. All other screws can die.
     
[email protected]
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Jul 2, 2011, 12:53 PM
 
Well I think we should adopt the Pentalobe as the universal screw style, it make getting into things so much easier.

What, me worry?
     
turtle777
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Jul 2, 2011, 01:50 PM
 
I propose screws with the head showing members of CONgress.

That way, we're always reminded that we are being screwed.

-t
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Jul 2, 2011, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by iMOTOR View Post
One word: Torx.
Which one?
     
iMOTOR
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Jul 2, 2011, 06:14 PM
 
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Jul 2, 2011, 06:27 PM
 
I count 17 there.
     
Peter
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Jul 2, 2011, 08:00 PM
 
I live in America and am British. Rather looking forward to going out tomorrow night.

USA > England.
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
iMOTOR
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Jul 2, 2011, 08:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
I count 17 there.
They’re called sizes.
     
phantomdragonz
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Jul 2, 2011, 08:42 PM
 
small size torx are fine, but larger ones used in automotive operations SUCK...

if anybody has worked on a jeep from the 90s and up then you can understand my hatred... especially the inverse torx (of whatever they are called)

Jeep decided to use two reverse torx on the top two bolts on the bellhousing, the most difficult bolts to reach when you replace the clutch... whoever had that idea needs to be beaten.
     
ghporter
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Jul 3, 2011, 01:37 PM
 
There are a number of different cross-point screw head/driver styles, including Reed & Prince, Phillips, French Recess, Posidrive and others. There are also cross-point systems that are significantly different from Phillips, such as the Torq-Set (the 4 slots are offset from each other) and a plethora of hybrid square-drive/cross-point systems. For what it's worth, Phillips was developed for a particular application: assembly of aircraft parts without stripping out aluminum threads. The sloped interior of the screw head makes a manually driven screwdriver cam out of the screw before exceeding some specific torque specification. Phillips (and America in general) are not responsible for the misuse of either the name "Phillips" as a generic term for cross-point screw systems, or the misapplication of cross-point screws in any particular usage.

Happy Independence Day, by the way!

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Eriamjh
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Jul 3, 2011, 10:18 PM
 
Curse you for making me read about all those screw heads!

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ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Jul 3, 2011, 10:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Phillips (and America in general) are not responsible for the misuse of either the name "Phillips" as a generic term for cross-point screw systems, or the misapplication of cross-point screws in any particular usage.
Fixinated™
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ghporter
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Jul 4, 2011, 09:51 AM
 
Maybe "any specific usage" would have been better? They are really good in certain uses, while other cross-point screws are better in others...

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Jul 4, 2011, 10:08 AM
 
What use is that? I must say, the only time I've ever thought "I wish this was a Phillips/flathead combo" was when I had the wrong-sized square bit (which is very rare, but when it happens you're screwed if you don't have it).

On the other hand, I say "I wish this wasn't a damn Phillips/flathead combo" on a daily basis.
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mattyb
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Jul 4, 2011, 10:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I've put in more screws than everyone here combined.

Square drive and impact driver FTW.
Overkill for watches, IMHO.

And glasses.
     
Doofy
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Jul 4, 2011, 11:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
USA > England.
Heh. You wait til you've been there seven years and you can't get out again without giving the IRS half your stuff.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
turtle777
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Jul 4, 2011, 12:14 PM
 
That's why you start moving your assets overseas as soon as you arrive

-t
     
ghporter
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Jul 4, 2011, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
What use is that? I must say, the only time I've ever thought "I wish this was a Phillips/flathead combo" was when I had the wrong-sized square bit (which is very rare, but when it happens you're screwed if you don't have it).

On the other hand, I say "I wish this wasn't a damn Phillips/flathead combo" on a daily basis.
Phillips/flat combos are a very different thing. Pure Phillips, or pure Reed & Prince, etc. are what I was talking about, and you did not mention combinations in your original post. I am seldom without a selection of cross-point drivers or bits, and when I run into a combination, I ALWAYS use a cross-point bit because they are more secure in the head and thus less likely to strip out (or strip the driver, which I've done with cheap flat blad drivers).

P.S.: "flathead" refers to a screw head style, while "flat blade" or simply "slotted" or something similar refers to the slot style.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Jul 4, 2011, 01:39 PM
 
I refuse to submit to your petty technicalities! A cross-point is Phillips, a square is Robertson, and so on.

My point was that some Phillips () screws are combos, so if you've got the wrong-sized bit you can also just use the flat/slot. Either way, at the end of the day saying "cross-point bit is more secure in the head and less likely to strip" is a comparison you can only make with the most terrible screw system in the world: the flathead.

I'm undergoing extensive renos on my house at the moment and there's nothing worse than running into something made with Phillips screws. Total headache. When it's Robertson screws the heavens throw down glorious light while angels sing and Home Improvement-era Pam Anderson prances in delight
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Laminar
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Jul 4, 2011, 01:41 PM
 
In Japan, they usually said "plus" or "minus."
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Jul 4, 2011, 01:47 PM
 
Done. From now on in this thread everyone can only say plus or minus.

e.g. "I'll stab myself in the effin eye before I ever buy screws with pluses or minuses. Americans need to wise the **** up and stop supporting the terrible Phillips company".
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iMOTOR
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Jul 4, 2011, 02:38 PM
 
Americans also need to convert to the Metric System.
Now you can officially move this thread to the P/W lounge
     
Laminar
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Jul 4, 2011, 04:42 PM
 
Yes please.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Jul 4, 2011, 07:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I've put in more screws than everyone here combined.

Square drive and impact driver FTW.
whore
     
ghporter
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Jul 4, 2011, 09:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I refuse to submit to your petty technicalities! A cross-point is Phillips, a square is Robertson, and so on.

My point was that some Phillips () screws are combos, so if you've got the wrong-sized bit you can also just use the flat/slot. Either way, at the end of the day saying "cross-point bit is more secure in the head and less likely to strip" is a comparison you can only make with the most terrible screw system in the world: the flathead.

I'm undergoing extensive renos on my house at the moment and there's nothing worse than running into something made with Phillips screws. Total headache. When it's Robertson screws the heavens throw down glorious light while angels sing and Home Improvement-era Pam Anderson prances in delight
I'll agree with you 100% with one caveat: in the few applications where "plus" screws are the most appropriate type, they rock. But they are used "for convenience," or "just because" so often that they are really, really overused and especially in certain applications like wood construction (square is definitely better there) and so on. So can we agree that they're inappropriate in so many cases that your point is thoroughly made? Yes, I do nit pick about words, but that gets in the way sometimes. Like here.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
   
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