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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > Sorry to those holding out: the AT&T-Tmobile merger will be no more

Sorry to those holding out: the AT&T-Tmobile merger will be no more
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The Godfather
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Aug 12, 2011, 07:48 PM
 
A document was leaked, explaining that the purchase will bring none of the benefits AT&T promised, and simply close up T-Mobile shops and shut down antennas.
Leaked AT&T Letter Demolishes Case For T-Mobile Merger - Lawyer Accidentally Decimates AT&T's #1 Talking Point | DSLReports.com, ISP Information
So, I hope you didn't buy T stock, which is low now but will go even lower on Monday.
     
turtle777
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Aug 13, 2011, 08:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
So, I hope you didn't buy T stock, which is low now but will go even lower on Monday.
Uhm, you know that "T" is the ticker symbol for AT&T ?

I think you mean T-Mobile (PINK: DTEGY)

-t
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 13, 2011, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Uhm, you know that "T" is the ticker symbol for AT&T ?

I think you mean T-Mobile (PINK: DTEGY)

-t
Yes. I knew it. I looked it up.
I meant that some people are looking for a big payout of AT&T stock when the competition is gone and prices skyrocket without any further expense. That will not be the case.
     
turtle777
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Aug 13, 2011, 09:54 AM
 
Oh, I would have thought most people would have bought DTAG stock in hopes of a high takeover value. I think DTAG will go down, T will go up.

The reason why T will go up is that most likely, their stock price has already priced in overpaying for T-Mobile. Now that T is not wasting money on it, it will benefit their valuation.

-t
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 13, 2011, 10:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Oh, I would have thought most people would have bought DTAG stock in hopes of a high takeover value. I think DTAG will go down, T will go up.

The reason why T will go up is that most likely, their stock price has already priced in overpaying for T-Mobile. Now that T is not wasting money on it, it will benefit their valuation.

-t
But the 39 billion (25% of its market cap) is in cash and stock, so TMo shareholders would be forced to accept AT&T stock instead of cash.
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 13, 2011, 10:41 AM
 
You may join the class action lawsuit, or not:
FightTheMerger.com - Fight ATTs Takeover of T-Mobile (see lower right area)
     
Big Mac
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Aug 14, 2011, 12:25 AM
 
I'm not sure if it can be pronounced dead yet. Powerful business interests want it to go through, so I would bet on them unless and until there is a definitive halt to the merger. One report that casts doubt on AT&T's claims doesn't kill anything.

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The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 15, 2011, 12:34 PM
 
It also looks like Macintosh community interests are siding with this deal. I submitted this leak as a tip to both TUAW and 9to5mac, and no peep from them. Perhaps there's a gag order, or iApp reviews are somehow more important?
P.S. MacNN re-published the story
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 15, 2011, 01:11 PM
 
Yeah, I'm a little surprised I haven't seen anything an Ars regarding this.
     
reader50
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Aug 15, 2011, 01:22 PM
 
Ditto, Ars should be all over this.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 15, 2011, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Ditto, Ars should be all over this.
I blamed it on the weekend, but we're a good portion through Monday and nothing.
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 15, 2011, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
I'm not sure if it can be pronounced dead yet. Powerful business interests want it to go through, so I would bet on them unless and until there is a definitive halt to the merger. One report that casts doubt on AT&T's claims doesn't kill anything.
Yep. There are so many parties with so many interests in this deal, it's not going to be clear that the merger will or won't go through until the day it actually does go through.
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 15, 2011, 08:25 PM
 
Are we not a party with the interest of keeping businesses competing each other, actually working for marketshare?
     
reader50
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Aug 15, 2011, 08:33 PM
 
Yep, and we elect public officials "Congressmen" to represent our interests. They even have the power to write new laws to keep business interests in check.

Unfortunately, our reps seem to be their reps more often than not.
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 15, 2011, 10:05 PM
 
Unfortunately, AT&T happens to be a significant federal lobby (though not as much so as Verizon).

Also, from what I've heard from some friends in Bellevue, T-Mobile doesn't want the merger to go through. They don't feel that they can integrate as a brand into AT&T's philosophy.
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 21, 2011, 05:20 PM
 
The leaked letter was made public.
http://www.dslreports.com/r0/downloa...70234a/DOX.pdf
DSL Reports warns against misinformation from AT&T that the 3.8 billion figure is a cost _AFTER_ the TMobile buyout. The fact remains that it would cost AT$T 3.8 billion to grow his coverage map as big as Verizon's, independently of the TMobile acquisition.

Source: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/A...t-Snafu-115735
     
turtle777
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Aug 21, 2011, 05:51 PM
 
LOL, now this actually might STRENGTHEN AT&Ts case.

-t
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 21, 2011, 05:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
LOL, now this actually might STRENGTHEN AT&Ts case.

-t
They'll put the FUD factory in overdrive tomorrow most likely.
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 23, 2011, 11:49 AM
 
Not to worry, AT&T has money to grow organically (competitively) in the Hamptons.
AT&T Expands Mobile Broadband Wireless Capacity in the Hamptons - MarketWatch
     
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Aug 23, 2011, 03:46 PM
 
Finally! Puff Daddy wasn't returning my calls.
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The Godfather  (op)
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Aug 27, 2011, 07:52 PM
 
This is like a trainwreck in the making...
AT&T sues those who protest the merger
AT&T sues customers seeking to block T-Mobile deal | Reuters
FCC asks AT&T for a new report that lies better and more consistently.
FCC restarts the clock on AT&T, T-Mobile deal - Post Tech - The Washington Post
Douche Telekom denies that AT&T has nothing to do with sending their people to the unemployment line.
Deutsche Telekom: U.S. staffing not linked to AT&T deal | Reuters

Also, I am still amazed that iPhone-centric news sites are ignoring all of these developments. Really, as if they had something to gain if this merger goes unfazed (except for MacNN, of course).
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 31, 2011, 10:57 AM
 
     
mduell
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Aug 31, 2011, 11:30 AM
 
My T-mobile SIM card died last night, as a sacrifice to the DOJ for blocking the merger.
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 31, 2011, 11:55 AM
 
Sorry for the loss of your SIM card, but I'm glad it was apparently enough
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Sep 5, 2011, 08:02 PM
 
Now, the merger break up fee is up on the discussion table. The 6 billion US$ would have been enough to improve AT&T (or T-Mobile) service in the smartphone age, so it is natural that the lawyers will run to that part of the playing field.
T-Mobile may miss out on AT&T break-up fee, report says | Wireless - CNET News
     
turtle777
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Sep 5, 2011, 11:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
Now, the merger break up fee is up on the discussion table. The 6 billion US$ would have been enough to improve AT&T (or T-Mobile) service in the smartphone age, so it is natural that the lawyers will run to that part of the playing field.
T-Mobile may miss out on AT&T break-up fee, report says | Wireless - CNET News
Makes sense. It's really not AT&Ts fault that an activist DoJ gets involved.

It's pretty clear to everyone that T-Mobile is broke and won't exist much longer.
The Parent, Deutsche Telekom has long decided to not keep investing in its US daughter. If T-Mo US is not sold, it would be eventually closed. So the whole argument of decreased competition is a moot one.

-t
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Sep 6, 2011, 02:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Makes sense. It's really not AT&Ts fault that an activist DoJ gets involved.
-t
It is their fault that they felt too confident that the merger would be given a green light.
The leaked letter triggered the scrutiny needed to see that antitrust laws were being violated, activist judge or not.
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Nov 24, 2011, 02:28 PM
 
AT&T- T-Mobile Merger looks to be over, companies pursuing a tactical workaround | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence
Whose fault is this outcome? Activist judges? Worried representatives? AT&T miscalculating hand-grease risk in a government as corrupt as last year?
Will heads roll?
( Last edited by The Godfather; Nov 24, 2011 at 02:36 PM. )
     
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Nov 25, 2011, 04:43 AM
 
Well, it can't be an activist judge if the thing hasn't gone to court yet. The FCC moved to send it to an administrative judge, but they had not done so yet when the request was withdrawn.

No, the reason was simple: It would have decreased competition in the market, and the US knows all too well what having a dominant phone company means, and noone wants to go there. The only way out for AT&T was carefully selected campaign contributions to unscrupulous politicians, and what that proved not to be enough, te deal failed.
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Nov 25, 2011, 11:21 AM
 
Well, Deutsche Telekom will get rid off their US business one way or another. So there will be reduced competition anyway. In part you can thank Apple for that by refusing to make an iPhone that is compatible with T-Mobile's GSM band.
     
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Nov 25, 2011, 01:15 PM
 
If they sell them to someone who doesn't have a cell phone network, there will not be reduced competition. If they sell to anyone who does and is not named Verizon or AT&T, the reduction in competition will be much less.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Dec 19, 2011, 09:18 PM
 
Is apple losing money for each day they don't buy T-Mobile?
     
brassplayersrock²
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Dec 20, 2011, 02:46 AM
 
luckily the deal fell through, i love seeing that hot chick on the commercials. with atnt, she'd be gone
     
Big Mac
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Dec 20, 2011, 05:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Well, Deutsche Telekom will get rid off their US business one way or another. So there will be reduced competition anyway. In part you can thank Apple for that by refusing to make an iPhone that is compatible with T-Mobile's GSM band.
This.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
imitchellg5
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Dec 20, 2011, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Well, Deutsche Telekom will get rid off their US business one way or another. So there will be reduced competition anyway. In part you can thank Apple for that by refusing to make an iPhone that is compatible with T-Mobile's GSM band.
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
This.
I don't think that's the case of Apple "refusing" to make a T-Mobile iPhone. The iPhone 4/4S is already a pentaband phone. They chose whatever bands will work on the widest varieties of carriers. AWS is only for one carrier in one country. It wouldn't make sense to not support other bands that are used worldwide over AWS.
     
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Dec 20, 2011, 02:27 PM
 
T-Mobile uses a band that is not even defined in the GSM standards. As a results, most transceiver chips do not support it. Apple simply picks one of the chips on the market. Apple has shown that it is very reluctant to make special phones - it took them years to make one for the much bigger Verizon network, and there is so far none for the even larger China Mobile network. Why should they bother with a special phone for the comparatively tiny T-Mobile?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Big Mac
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Dec 20, 2011, 03:25 PM
 
Because we hate AT&T, that's why!

I guess I was misinformed to believe the T-Mobile US band was also used in Europe. . . If not, it's yet another case of government regulation screwing things up by forcing T-Mobile to be on a non-standard band.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Dec 20, 2011, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
T-Mobile uses a band that is not even defined in the GSM standards. As a results, most transceiver chips do not support it.
There are rumors that the MDM6610 baseband chip in the iPhone 4S does support T-Mobile's band.
     
Lateralus
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Dec 20, 2011, 04:50 PM
 
Phone n00b here; I'm a T-Mobile customer and would like to remain one. So does what I'm reading above mean I can't simply buy an unlocked GSM phone and know that popping my T-Mobile SIM in will lead to perfect happiness?
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Dec 20, 2011, 05:42 PM
 
Depends on what you mean by perfect. It will work as a GSM ("2G") phone and it will work on WiFi, but it won't work on T-Mobile's 3G network. The fastest speed you will ever get when away from WiFi is 20 kbps. There are signs that T-Mobile is moving things around in some markets to have at least partial coverage on 3G, but in general you will be stuck with EDGE speeds at best. The theoretical best is 236 kbps, which isn't too good to start with, but worse is that the zones with even that high speed are very small (a quarter of the coverage area).
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
amazing
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Dec 20, 2011, 06:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Depends on what you mean by perfect. It will work as a GSM ("2G") phone and it will work on WiFi, but it won't work on T-Mobile's 3G network. The fastest speed you will ever get when away from WiFi is 20 kbps. There are signs that T-Mobile is moving things around in some markets to have at least partial coverage on 3G, but in general you will be stuck with EDGE speeds at best. The theoretical best is 236 kbps, which isn't too good to start with, but worse is that the zones with even that high speed are very small (a quarter of the coverage area).
What that means in practice is that you could buy one of your friends' earlier iPhone models and then unlock it to run on TM.

Since it'll be running on EDGE, you don't need the latest and greatest. Maybe you can find a good deal on a 3GS.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 21, 2011, 11:02 AM
 
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Dec 21, 2011, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
What that means in practice is that you could buy one of your friends' earlier iPhone models and then unlock it to run on TM.

Since it'll be running on EDGE, you don't need the latest and greatest. Maybe you can find a good deal on a 3GS.
Unless you live in the one of 12 biggest cities in the USA. Refer to link I posted.
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Dec 21, 2011, 06:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
How can cable companies sell spectrum that is rented from the public property?
     
mduell
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Dec 21, 2011, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
T-Mobile uses a band that is not even defined in the GSM standards.
Tmo uses UMTS band IV. UMTS is the 3G evolution of GSM.
     
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Dec 22, 2011, 05:36 AM
 
That there is a name for the band doesn't change the fact that it's non-standard. The resolution specifies the bands 1885-2025 MHz and 2110-2200 MHz, and the 1700 MHz band is not one of those. Now, many use other bands as well - mainly the GSM 900 MHz band - but T-mobile doesn't use any of the standard bands which AFAICT makes them unique outside Japan.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
mduell
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Dec 22, 2011, 12:27 PM
 
Are you just playing semantic games because UMTS is a standard defined by the ITU rather than the GSM Association or ETSI (who wrote the original GSM standard)? Or that UMTS band IV doesn't fall within the original frequency plan drawn up two decades ago?

UMTS is the 3G evolution of GSM, and the UMTS standard defines the band Tmo is using.
     
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Dec 22, 2011, 03:16 PM
 
No, my point is this: There are certain frequencies defined by the standard. Lots of operators use these frequencies among others. Very few operators - T-mobile and apparently some Japanese ones - only use other frequencies and none of the standard ones.
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mduell
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Dec 23, 2011, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
No, my point is this: There are certain frequencies defined by the standard.
Which standard? Please be specific.
     
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Dec 25, 2011, 08:42 AM
 
Resolution 212 at the World Radiocommunications Conference 1997 specifies the bands, and UMTS references this resolution.
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