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godzookie2k · Nov 11, 2003, 09:38 PM

So. uhm. ID 3/CS doesn't save down to 2, thereby forcing presses/users to pretty much *have* to upgrade if they receive files in the newer format.

Discuss while I laugh my ass off at the irony.

art_director · Nov 12, 2003, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
So. uhm. ID 3/CS doesn't save down to 2, thereby forcing presses/users to pretty much *have* to upgrade if they receive files in the newer format.

Discuss while I laugh my ass off at the irony.

oooooo, ouch.

godzookie2k · Nov 12, 2003, 11:17 AM

wait a sec. is that illustrator not being able to save down AI's or EPS's? Why.. yes, I think it is!

well **** this upgrade.

cowerd · Nov 12, 2003, 12:02 PM

wait a sec. is that illustrator not being able to save down AI's or EPS's? Why.. yes, I think it is!

No, its now an export funcshun. Which means it mungs your text something awful. Think opening a .PDF text block in Illustrator.

Can you say lock-in.

turk.o · Nov 12, 2003, 12:35 PM

well, the initial poster should have done a spot more research before posting. while you can't save as InDesign 2, you can export as an inDesign Interchange document that can be opened as a native file in ID2, with the help of two free plugins from the adobe site. so, no its not as easy as just saving down, but it is still possible to do. not that i have done it yet, but ...

t.o

art_director · Nov 12, 2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by turk.o:
well, the initial poster should have done a spot more research before posting. while you can't save as InDesign 2, you can export as an inDesign Interchange document that can be opened as a native file in ID2, with the help of two free plugins from the adobe site. so, no its not as easy as just saving down, but it is still possible to do. not that i have done it yet, but ...

t.o

then i'd say the jury is out on that one until someone posts that it actually works. adobe is generally pretty good about such things but they do not have a perfect track record with *features*. that said, they blow quark out of the water.

protohootie · Nov 12, 2003, 03:25 PM

Adobe has moved what seems to be all the 'saving down' functions into the export areas of their apps. Kinda silly that it's not fairly well documented.

zookie, I for one would expect you to research your claims... but I guess you're still a little cloudy with InDesign so I'll forgive you.

As for the InDesign Interchange Document format working in 2.0... I've not tried it myself, but when talking to several of my associates they claim it has worked for them without a hitch.

PH

Yose · Nov 12, 2003, 06:27 PM

I was having a discussion about this today with some of my professors and all we could say was 'cocky bastards". I guess we were wrong *kinda* because of the export feature.. I'll have to try it tomorrow.

Thanks for letting us know about that ppl!

turk.o · Nov 12, 2003, 06:35 PM

i just read over on XLR8 Your Mac that the reason for this is that adobe is using a new type engine in the CS apps that is so different that it is simply not backwards compatible. this is good for the future, but which will probably cause a lot of headaches until everyone is on the same page, upgrade wise. while you are at XLR8, look at the photoshop CS benches from yesterday vs 7--very depressing.

t.o

godzookie2k · Nov 12, 2003, 06:38 PM

well I just heard the bitching through the grapevine, haven't upgraded to CS and frankly probably wont, but. The need for some plugins and some *other* format just to save down a frigging version?

Wait, what about ID1.0, how come I can't save down to ID1.0?

And how does this interchange format work for illustrator?

chris.p · Nov 12, 2003, 07:38 PM

To be fair, AI 11 is speedier- and thats worth the upgrade (of sorts- should have been this way to start off with). I was always peed off with AI 10 speed, but this is ok.

Landos Mustache · Nov 13, 2003, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
wait a sec. is that illustrator not being able to save down AI's or EPS's? Why.. yes, I think it is!

well **** this upgrade.

If you are stupid enough to think that you:

1) Should not have enough money to actually buy these apps.

2) Are a horrible designer and should not be hired by anyone so don't worry about it's supposed problems.

Landos Mustache · Nov 13, 2003, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
So. uhm. ID 3/CS doesn't save down to 2, thereby forcing presses/users to pretty much *have* to upgrade if they

Discuss while I laugh my ass off at the irony.

Even funnier Quark 6 cannot save as Quark 4 files forcing presses/users to pretty much *have* to own both versions of the software if they receive files in either format.

godzookie2k · Nov 13, 2003, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
Even funnier Quark 6 cannot save as Quark 4 files forcing presses/users to pretty much *have* to own both versions of the software if they receive files in either format.

NOW! you are seeing my point.

godzookie2k · Nov 13, 2003, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
If you are stupid enough to think that you:

1) Should not have enough money to actually buy these apps.

2) Are a horrible designer and should not be hired by anyone so don't worry about it's supposed problems.

ok. I have...no idea what you just said. A properly placed comma or two might help.

I'm gonna go drink a cup of coffee, then come back and see if it makes more sense.

godzookie2k · Nov 13, 2003, 09:12 AM

nope, still don't get it.

Yose · Nov 13, 2003, 09:49 AM

Lol

art_director · Nov 13, 2003, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
If you are stupid enough to think that you:

1) Should not have enough money to actually buy these apps.

2) Are a horrible designer and should not be hired by anyone so don't worry about it's supposed problems.

somehow i think that would make sense if i had a dozen beers in me.

theolein · Nov 13, 2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
If you are stupid enough to think that you:

1) Should not have enough money to actually buy these apps.

2) Are a horrible designer and should not be hired by anyone so don't worry about it's supposed problems.

Around half an hour ago, I posted about designers with attitude problems. Yes, I did mean you. I have no idea why you are ALWAYS so incredibly negative, arrogant and hostile. Is it depression, loneliness or the feeling that no one likes you? I have no idea, but judging from your posts I would think that your personal problems are probably, to a large degree, of your own doing.

theolein · Nov 13, 2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by cowerd:
No, its now an export funcshun. Which means it mungs your text something awful. Think opening a .PDF text block in Illustrator.

Can you say lock-in.

The fact that Adobe has moved backwards compatibility in it's CS applications to the export area is interesting. It probably does have a partly technical reason, such as the new text engine, but I sincerely doubt that was the only reason. I very much doubt that Adobe had the time, money and resources to rewrite the application's backends from scratch.

I suspect that it is largely a marketing decision. One should note that the Windows CS versions now have product activation (similar to Windows XP and a host of other newer software in Macromedia) and that this will be coming to the Mac in a future version as well. While Adobe certainly has a point in fighting piracy, especially in regard to Photoshop, I see the PA and the "soft" lock-in as an attempt to exploit their near monopoly in graphic design software.

Added to this is the fact that Adobe has been primarily developing for Windows for quite a while now. I've used PS7 AI10 and GL6 on XP and they perform very well there with none of the latency problems that they have on OSX.

I wonder what Apple thinks of this internally? I'm pretty sure Apple could take something like the GIMP and turn it into a brother of Final Cut Pro (which was originally a Macromedia product that Apple bought) or Safari (Open Source core with Apple improvements returned to the community) with an Open Source core and Cocoa/Carbon extensions.

While I'm sure that Apple will do no such thing as long as Adobe products are available and usable on the Mac, I'm pretty sure that Apple could use it to coerce Adobe into behaving decently.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Nov 13, 2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
ok. I have...no idea what you just said. A properly placed comma or two might help.

I'm gonna go drink a cup of coffee, then come back and see if it makes more sense.

OK how is this...

If you actually think Illustrator 11 is not able to save as version 10 or below YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

You need a diagram or you get it now?

theolein · Nov 13, 2003, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
OK how is this...

If you actually think Illustrator 11 is not able to save as version 10 or below YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

You need a diagram or you get it now?

QED.

godzookie2k · Nov 13, 2003, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
OK how is this...

If you actually think Illustrator 11 is not able to save as version 10 or below YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

You need a diagram or you get it now?

are you sure?

Yose · Nov 13, 2003, 03:29 PM

Theolein:

The fact that Adobe has moved backwards compatibility in it's CS applications to the export area is interesting. It probably does have a partly technical reason, such as the new text engine, but I sincerely doubt that was the only reason. I very much doubt that Adobe had the time, money and resources to rewrite the application's backends from scratch.

I sort of envision Adobe doing away with multiple version files�This move from AI8,9,10 files to a pure AI CS file maybe be a step forward to version independent files where if I'm working in CS v2 you'll be able to open my files in CS v1 with "no problems". I'm sure it's more complicated too.

That's my take on it at least.

art_director · Nov 13, 2003, 03:48 PM

what the fook is going on in here? this is usually a civil forum.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Nov 13, 2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
are you sure?

100%

godzookie2k · Nov 13, 2003, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
100%

god I love being able to get a rise out of you guys as easily as making fun of adobe.

*bows*

godzookie2k · Nov 13, 2003, 08:32 PM

that being said, I guess I should have clarified.

SAVING DOWN AND STILL BEING ABLE TO EDIT TEXT.

better?

Landos Mustache · Nov 13, 2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
god I love being able to get a rise out of you guys as easily as making fun of adobe.

*bows*

You are getting a rise out of me? I am just laughing over the fact that you are stupid enough to think that it doesn't save older versions. Nothing to do with Adobe, just over the fact that you make yourself look stupid

godzookie2k · Nov 14, 2003, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
that being said, I guess I should have clarified.

SAVING DOWN AND STILL BEING ABLE TO EDIT TEXT.

better?

as I said. better? its a pretty useless save down feature, not being able to edit copy and all.

godzookie2k · Nov 14, 2003, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
If you are stupid enough to think that you:

1) Should not have enough money to actually buy these apps.

2) Are a horrible designer and should not be hired by anyone so don't worry about it's supposed problems.

and when I get people unable to type properly. I usually call that mission successful.

Do you have something to prove with all of this? Or are you just wiping your 'giner?

Landos Mustache · Nov 14, 2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
and when I get people unable to type properly. I usually call that mission successful.

Do you have something to prove with all of this? Or are you just wiping your 'giner?

You still here or are you still drooling on your keyboard trying to figure how to save in illustrator?

theolein · Nov 14, 2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Yose:
I sort of envision Adobe doing away with multiple version files�This move from AI8,9,10 files to a pure AI CS file maybe be a step forward to version independent files where if I'm working in CS v2 you'll be able to open my files in CS v1 with "no problems". I'm sure it's more complicated too.

That's my take on it at least.

It would make sense if Adobe only did that with Illustrator, since historically Illustrator files haven't had seamless backwards compatibility, but I gather InDesign CS does this as well, and that makes it seem like a mixed technical/marketing decision, to me, that is.

I have my reasons to suspect that Adobe is becoming more aggressive on that side of things (product activation, backward compatibilty made less obvious) in order to generate new sales. Microsoft has done this for ages, so it's nothing new, but it's a bit of a shame from a company that was historically more user centric and not fixated on shareholder value.

godzookie2k · Nov 14, 2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
You still here or are you still drooling on your keyboard trying to figure how to save in illustrator?

yep!

godzookie2k · Nov 14, 2003, 01:38 PM

========|) ~� ~�

^^^^skywalkers wang

==|) ~�

^^^^mine

damn he totally put me in my place. damn. I got done told. wow. totally. man it hurts. I quit. I'm not gonna be a designer anymore. I'm stupid and I suck.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Nov 14, 2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
========|) ~� ~�

^^^^skywalkers wang

==|) ~�

^^^^mine

damn he totally put me in my place. damn. I got done told. wow. totally. man it hurts. I quit. I'm not gonna be a designer anymore. I'm stupid and I suck.

Well that sums it up nicely doesn't it