Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

MacNZ · Oct 19, 2004, 08:26 PM

Hi,

I'm in the market for a new mac but the new single proc. G5 is complicating things for me. I'm a student and don't have the cash to extend for a Dual G5 but want a headless mac. I am using the computer for lots of web work, studio mx, photoshop as well as garageband, music stuff etc. The new single G5 system kinda fits my category but then again I saw a refurb. Dual G4/1Ghz mirror door system for the same price as the G5. I looked at some benchmarks of the old single G5 system versus the G4 and they looked comparable in performance unless you have lots of money to spend on memory for the G5. So my question is, which one do I go for?

As far as I see it the advantage of the G4 is that I can have two optical drives and more room for hard drive expansion. I would use the optical bay in the G4 and it would be nice to be able to fit extra hard drives. Then again I want the new architecture of the G5 for future processor upgrades and memory expansion etc. This computer would be for the next 3 or so years so I want the best system to upgrade as I go.

Look forward to some educated advice, cheers!

Lateralus · Oct 19, 2004, 08:51 PM

I'd take the G5 over the Dual 1GHz if the price is anywhere near comparable. I can't say the same for a Dual 1.42GHz G4, which I'd take over the G5.

And one thing to point out here is that the bus speed on the new 1.8 SP is only 600MHz. It will not perform equally with the original 1.8 SP from last year.

Geo669 · Oct 19, 2004, 09:37 PM

MacNZ, I'm in this very predicament.

The new single G5, is complicating my decision.
I could go the Dual 1.25, find a dual 1.24 or get this 1.8. <- they all fall in the same price range. Before the single, i was just going to spurge for the dual 1.8 and say hey, its the low end. I cant do that anymore!! lol.

I'll be checking back in this thread for feedback.
Also, Lateralus, I expect a full G4 defense.. non of that G5 crap from you

Lateralus · Oct 19, 2004, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Geo669:
Also, Lateralus, I expect a full G4 defense.. non of that G5 crap from you

*Whistles*

Link · Oct 19, 2004, 10:22 PM

G4 systems have a lot of life left in them, that's for sure. However, there's a ton of video cards you *probably* won't be able to use in a g4 anytime soon, those including the Radeon X800, Geforce 6800 (ultra), Geforce 5900 (not like any other macs have it anyway), and various radeon versions. (The 9600pro/xt can be used with a simple mod).

There's also SATA on the g5 and some promise that you'd get from a newer machine. However, it's a single, and it will be a single for all eternity unless you swap the logic board out. You can hold up to 8gb of ram in a g5 that has 4 ram slots, provided someone starts making non-ecc 2GB ddr sticks, but I haven't heard of anything like that coming anytime soon.

In fact, if it's MDD versus G5, I'd take that G5 without too much hesitation at all, it's going to be more upgradable in the future, QUIETER to begin with (MDDs have a reputation of being noisy), and you'll PROBABLY have more chances to get a CPU upgrade in the future, keeping in mind there are -ZERO- for the MDD series powermac.

To top it off, much better system bus, and more up-to-date RAM handling I suppose, not to mention a G5 1.8ghz is brand new, comes with a warranty, while a dual 1ghz would be older (a dual 1.25, maybe not so).

Lateralus · Oct 19, 2004, 10:30 PM

The Rev 1 MDDs were noisy. The recent ones are very quiet.

And saying that there is a higher likelihood of seeing CPU upgrades for the G5 than the MDD doesn't make much sense since Sonnet and GigaDesigns have already said they are working on MDD upgrades. Additionally, the cooling mechanism on the G5 CPUs will make it more difficult to develop upgrades for the G5 than it was to develop them for any of the G4 Power Macs.

UnixMac · Oct 19, 2004, 11:29 PM

G5 hands down.... the future is 64 bit.

Link · Oct 19, 2004, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by Lateralus:
The Rev 1 MDDs were noisy. The recent ones are very quiet.

And saying that there is a higher likelihood of seeing CPU upgrades for the G5 than the MDD doesn't make much sense since Sonnet and GigaDesigns have already said they are working on MDD upgrades. Additionally, the cooling mechanism on the G5 CPUs will make it more difficult to develop upgrades for the G5 than it was to develop them for any of the G4 Power Macs.

Gotcha, didn't know they were going to make MDD upgrades, that's cool!

As for the cooling system, I CAN agree there! Someone needs to make a utility to reprogram that, hehe.

MacNZ · Oct 20, 2004, 02:22 AM

Thanks for all the replies,
I'm leaning towards the G5 since it'd be new (warranty etc...and don't you just love having a NEW system) and what Link said about the graphics card though. I suppose the proessor upgrade issue is anyone's guess. Would MDD upgrades likely be to faster G4's or to a G5 though?

Link · Oct 20, 2004, 04:52 AM

Probably faster G4s, but you never know

Hard to say when and if it'll be easily possible to upgrade a G5 though, that does sound like a different creature.

WOPR · Oct 20, 2004, 05:15 AM

Go for G5 as it's the future. Remember that OS X isn't running 64bit yet so doesn't fully exploit the G5 yet.

At least I think that's the case, the above may be complete nonsense!

OreoCookie · Oct 20, 2004, 06:17 AM

Even the 1.6 GHz G5 was as fast as/faster than the 1.42 Dual G4.

How about a refurb Dual G5?

Lateralus · Oct 20, 2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Even the 1.6 GHz G5 was as fast as/faster than the 1.42 Dual G4.

Haha.

I'm sure there are a few instances where the 1.6 would be faster than a Dual 1.42, but the Dual 1.42 is faster for most things.

UnixMac · Oct 20, 2004, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Lateralus:
Haha.

I'm sure there are a few instances where the 1.6 would be faster than a Dual 1.42, but the Dual 1.42 is faster for most things.

it's really all a matter of MP aware apps vs. not, and it's that simple.

thunderous_funker · Oct 20, 2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by UnixMac:
G5 hands down.... the future is 64 bit.

Exactly!

I fully expect every update of OS X, beginning with Tiger, to begin optimizing for the G5.

It reminds me of the first half a year of the G4/G3 product gap--G3 were getting faster and faster and seemed to blur the lines of performance, but it wasn't long before more and more parts of the OS and other key apps got optimized for Altivec and then the difference was HUGE.

Right now some MP apps might benefit more from an MDD, but it won't be long before the 64bit advantage really takes over.

aquilles10 · Oct 20, 2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Exactly!

I fully expect every update of OS X, beginning with Tiger, to begin optimizing for the G5.

It reminds me of the first half a year of the G4/G3 product gap--G3 were getting faster and faster and seemed to blur the lines of performance, but it wasn't long before more and more parts of the OS and other key apps got optimized for Altivec and then the difference was HUGE.

Right now some MP apps might benefit more from an MDD, but it won't be long before the 64bit advantage really takes over.

Good point! I have a MDD since last August, and it has served me well, but if I needed a computer today that would need to last for a few years, then I would have to agree that a G5 would be a better investment than a G4. It's only a matter of time that the differences between the G4 and G5 will be as apparent as the difference between the G4 and G3.

But the fact that the Mac OS is MP aware makes a getting a dualie to me very important, hence I bought an G4 dualie to serve is a "bridge" between my aging sawtooth, and a newer dual G5.

OreoCookie · Oct 20, 2004, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Lateralus:
Haha.

I'm sure there are a few instances where the 1.6 would be faster than a Dual 1.42, but the Dual 1.42 is faster for most things.

No, actually it's not that easy.
The 2.0 GHz G5 gets SPECmarks of 800 and 840 (integer and fp, respectively) whereas a 1 GHz G4 achieves 309 and 187 (int and fp). Even if I reduce the G5's marks by 10 % (the difference in clock speed), and add 30 % for the G4, then multiply by 1.8, I get

G5: 720 756
G4: (402 243) * 1.8 = 724 437

Keep in mind that the G4 probably will not achieve an efficiency of 1.8 due to the bus architecture and that a 30 % increase for a 42 % increase in clock speed is overly optimistic, especially keeping the non-elastic bus and less advanced memory connection in mind.

Most software (including the software mentioned) will not be smp aware, including photoshop. On the other hand, this rough estimate does not include processes that depend on hd or graphics card performance.

This also corresponds to my personal experience (Dual 1 GHz MDD vs. 1.8 GHz G5, 1.5 GHz single G4 (Powerbook)).

UnixMac · Oct 20, 2004, 06:27 PM

All very good points... the G5 has a superior system bus, SATA, faster RAM, etc.. etc..

Get the G5 and be done with it.

MacNZ · Oct 21, 2004, 05:44 AM

Done; going for the G5. Thanks for all the helpful replies!

Bookie · Oct 21, 2004, 11:03 AM

Make sure you go for the educational pricing - don't know if NZ means New Zealand, or what prices are there, but in the US the 1.8 is a mere 1349 for students like yourself. Happy buying