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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Apple just announced new Mac Pros.....with new Graphics cards!!!

Apple just announced new Mac Pros.....with new Graphics cards!!! (Page 2)
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Green Leaf
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Jan 8, 2008, 02:27 PM
 
Reggie Fowler wrote: "I'm not sure what everyone is so happy about. The new MacPro's are only 1.1x to 1.2x faster (over-all performance) than the old 8 core machines (as evidenced on Apple's website under Performance). Couple this with the fact that the new computers have no blu-ray and i ask? So what's so new and fantastic? Yeah it has new graphics card and faster memory, but with only minimum over-all perfomance gains (compared to a 3.0ghz machine no less).....it doesn't seem so great. Oh, and i didn't mention the heafty price tag. Save that one for later!"



I agree with Reggie. After reviewing Apple's website, the new 3.2ghz machines are only 1.1x - 1.2x faster than an old 3.0ghz machine. Ouch!

and no Blu-ray totally sucks.
     
Macadvo  (op)
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Jan 8, 2008, 02:30 PM
 
Reggie seems to want to dislike the new Mac Pros but they are in fact a damn fine upgrade from the old ones. If you expected to see Blu-ray in a Mac Pro then you were surely letting yourself in for disappointment. As it currently stands the price of Blu-ray prohibits Apple from putting one in the MP whilst maintaining its current profit margins, it just ain't gonna happen.
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Green Leaf
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Jan 8, 2008, 02:32 PM
 
Do they sell external blu-ray burners for those who want them? can you provide a link so i can check it out.
     
Macadvo  (op)
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Jan 8, 2008, 02:36 PM
 
I don't think Apple sells external Blu-ray drives but I may be wrong, certainly neither "blu ray" nor "bluray" turn up anything when searching their store.

There are alternatives available through other online retailers however but as I said above the price of them is still in the £300 range for writers and £100-£170 for readers.
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aehaas
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Jan 8, 2008, 02:47 PM
 
Chip speed is only a small part of the working parts of a system. The new chipset has additional programming that increases the workload by a significant factor. Yes the programs will have to be updated to take advantage of this new architecture. The bus and RAM are significantly faster and adding to this may be a line of efficiency not specified by the individual parts working separately. Use of the optimized RAID and new video cards will further advance the experience. With time there will be further system optimizations as well. They have not put out specific details about the CD drive. I wonder if there is more that will happen here in time.

aehaas
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Aegis
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Jan 8, 2008, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Green Leaf View Post
Do they sell external blu-ray burners for those who want them? can you provide a link so i can check it out.
OWC Mercury Pro SW-5582 FireWire/USB2 Blu-r... (MRFWU25582) at OWC
     
MallyMal
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Jan 8, 2008, 02:49 PM
 
Okie dokie, I have just placed my order for the Quad.
     
Eug
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Jan 8, 2008, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
I'm not sure! You can get a Blu-Ray elsewhere, but I don't think it's worthwhile at this point with the hefty cost of blanks. New monitors probably aren't far off. Nobody really expected an enclosure change at this point, it's already very efficient and lovely.
Well, it's 2008 for one thing, and while you and I might be comfortable doing hardware installs, not everyone is. Furthermore, it's always nice to have the optical drive covered by Apple, if it's a purchase for work.

Considering Mac Pros are heavily used in video editing, I would have figured Apple would have offered a hi-def disc burner option by now.
     
Lateralus
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Jan 8, 2008, 03:03 PM
 
I can't believe Apple waited this long to update the Mac Pro and still didn't go with the Radeon HD 38xx series.

And only 2GBs of RAM in a machine that costs nearly $3,000 and has 8 processor cores. Wow.

I'm amazed that there isn't a Blu-ray drive. Considering the cost of the new Mac Pro, and the type of digital content creators who will buy them, I would consider a Blu-ray drive must-have equipment. Especially for the coming year.

The type of DVD burner that Apple is including costs around $30 on NewEgg and Apple probably pays even less than that. With Blu-ray drives now available for as low as $200 from enthusiast websites, it is absolutely inexcusable that Apple didn't include one.
( Last edited by Lateralus; Jan 8, 2008 at 03:09 PM. )
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shinji
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Jan 8, 2008, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macadvo View Post
Just been reading around the PCI-E 2.0 specs. Apparently one of the differences between PCI-E 1 and 2 is that PCI-E 2.0 provides additional power over the bus to power the new cards. If you have a PCI-E 1.0 or 1.1 slot then you will have to provide extra power via the "old" way with an additional power lead (a la the X1900XT we currently use). BUT, and this is the gotcha, PCI-E 2.0 cards on a PCI-E 2.0 slot don't NEED the extra power lead.

I'm seriously hoping Apple has kept the power connector on these new cards so that they can be used in the "old" Mac Pros that we all currently have, if not then we may well be stuck with our X1900XTs.
Has Apple ever done that in the past? I don't see why they would get rid of it when it's on the PC version.
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 8, 2008, 03:28 PM
 
So you can add lots of cinema displays but they can't offer Blu-ray or an HD 3xxx series or 8800 Ultra let alone the new 9 series. **** it. Does it support Crossfire or Nvidia SLI? If not I'll wait until Apple acts like they're interested in giving me more than that memory bandwidth whoopla.
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 8, 2008, 03:40 PM
 
Well I just checked and there's still only one 16X lane so no SLI configs. When is Apple going to stop pairing the latest CPUs with six month old hardware. Never.
     
goMac
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Jan 8, 2008, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by PaperNotes View Post
Well I just checked and there's still only one 16X lane so no SLI configs. When is Apple going to stop pairing the latest CPUs with six month old hardware. Never.
I talked to an Intel engineer about this once and he said it was a known issue with the Xeons. They just don't have enough PCI lanes to do Crossfire. I'm sure there are some custom chipsets out there that do Crossfire or SLI, but the ones from Intel don't as far as I know.

I think your best hope is for OS X to add software SLI/Crossfire support.
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Reggie Fowler
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Jan 8, 2008, 03:50 PM
 
This burner has the following warning: "Apple software currently does not support Blu-ray drives, but the DVD and CD burning/reading portions of the OS do function. It is expected a future release of the OS will add Blu-ray support and the ability to display HD Blu-ray video."

What does this mean? When i hook it up to my Mac, what's gonna happen, or what won't happen?
     
MacosNerd
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Jan 8, 2008, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
I can't believe Apple waited this long to update the Mac Pro and still didn't go with the Radeon HD 38xx series.
I'm not surprised. Apple has always seemingly avoided putting in the fastest video card into their computers. Additionally most of the updates in recent memory have been incremental and not mind blowing. Other then the shift from PPC to intel, but you get my drift. Apple seems intent on releasing small updates.

I would have like to put small frequent updates but that wasn't the case with the MacPro.
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 8, 2008, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
I talked to an Intel engineer about this once and he said it was a known issue with the Xeons. They just don't have enough PCI lanes to do Crossfire. I'm sure there are some custom chipsets out there that do Crossfire or SLI, but the ones from Intel don't as far as I know.
There's nothing stopping Apple from using an Intel mobo with Nforce 7 support. And I don't know where your Intel engineer comes from but Intel's chipsets support up to four 16X lanes. They can't be used in SLI on some mobos but you could use one for OS X and another for Windows. Having just one 16X lane is really the pits.

Here's an Intel X48 mobo that supports the latest Penryn Xeons on a 1600Mhz bus and has three 16X 2.0 lanes AND has Crossfire support. Blows the Mac Pro's mobo away (except it isn't dual socket)

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MacosNerd
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Jan 8, 2008, 04:16 PM
 
correct me if I'm wrong but for all intent purposes, SLI/Crossfire is for gaming is it not?

Apple has continually disregarded the gaming platform. the MacPro is first and foremost a professional workstation. People certainly do use it to play games and I have no problems with games. I'm just pointing out that Apple doesn't seem to care to cater to that population.
     
Aegis
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Jan 8, 2008, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler View Post
This burner has the following warning ... What does this mean? When i hook it up to my Mac, what's gonna happen, or what won't happen?
It means you can't pop in a Blu-Ray movie and play it yet. However, you can pop in a blank Blu-Ray disk and burn data to it (via Toast).


Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Considering Mac Pros are heavily used in video editing, I would have figured Apple would have offered a hi-def disc burner option by now.
Yes, I wasn't implying that it isn't good to have that option. There should always be options. I'm just saying it's not the end of the world. Even if someone wasn't comfortable with installing an optical drive I'm sure there's places where you could get it installed and have a warranty put on it.


Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
I can't believe Apple waited this long to update the Mac Pro and still didn't go with the Radeon HD 38xx series.
Perhaps I'm misinformed but from what I've read, the 38xx series isn't really an improvement over an 8800GT. ([H] Enthusiast - ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series)
     
Don Pickett
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Jan 8, 2008, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
Perhaps I'm misinformed but from what I've read, the 38xx series isn't really an improvement over an 8800GT. ([H] Enthusiast - ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series)
From what I've read the main advantage of the 38x series is that it's cheaper than the 88x cards, so you get most of the performance for less money.
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Reggie Fowler
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Jan 8, 2008, 05:08 PM
 
when you say using an external blu-ray drive you can burn "data" to it....by "data" do you mean "movies" that will play in a blu-ray machine hooked up to a tv or data as in "files" or BOTH?
     
Oversoul
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Jan 8, 2008, 05:22 PM
 
Told my art director girlfriend about the new Mac Pros (with 8 cores *drool*) hoping to draw some interest, but I didn't get permission to upgrade our Quad-3.0Ghz Mac Pro. I guess I'm out until the next revision unless I want to incur her wrath.

Is the GeForce 8800 GT card compatible with the previous revision Mac Pro?
     
Leonard
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Jan 8, 2008, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Green Leaf View Post
I agree with Reggie. After reviewing Apple's website, the new 3.2ghz machines are only 1.1x - 1.2x faster than an old 3.0ghz machine. Ouch!

and no Blu-ray totally sucks.
What did you expect. Intel ONLY has a 3.2. Apple's not going to put anything that Intel doesn't have to offer. What most people were hoping for was the new faster FSB (which must mean it has Seaburg chipset), the new video cards, and more for their money.

It's what was expected. As for Blu-Ray, that can come as an option later. It looks like Blu-Ray is finally winning the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD war. DVD Player will have to be updated or a Blu-Ray Player will have to be included.
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Jan 8, 2008, 06:11 PM
 
OK, order placed, gulp. Like others, I'll be waiting "3-5 weeks" because I spec'd the 8800GT.

My four year old Powermac will be sent to pasture over at my parents' house most likely. Its been a trustworthy companion though frankly I'm surprised I haven't upgraded sooner (its just plugged along and done the job so well...).
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G5man
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Jan 8, 2008, 06:18 PM
 
Can the graphics cards that are used for OS X on x86 be used on the Mac Pro?
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goMac
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Jan 8, 2008, 06:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by G5man View Post
Can the graphics cards that are used for OS X on x86 be used on the Mac Pro?
No. They won't be recognized by the EFI firmware on the machine.
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Jan 8, 2008, 06:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler View Post
when you say using an external blu-ray drive you can burn "data" to it....by "data" do you mean "movies" that will play in a blu-ray machine hooked up to a tv or data as in "files" or BOTH?
No. Data meaning files. There are no applications that will encode high-def video in a Blu-Ray compatible format (though rumors says the next version of DVD Studio Pro will).

And Apple's DVD Player.app doesn't support Blu-Ray/HD-DVD movie decryption/decoding yet. Plus, without an HDMI monitor (or DVI with HDCP) and compatible video card, you wont be able to play a Blu-Ray movie anyway (even Windows requires an HDCP-compliant monitor and video card).
     
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Jan 8, 2008, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by G5man View Post
Can the graphics cards that are used for OS X on x86 be used on the Mac Pro?
They'll be recognized in Windows, but not by MacOS X.
     
Triath.lon
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Jan 8, 2008, 07:27 PM
 
So, with new Mac Pros and Xserves out now, i wonder what's gonna be released at Macworld...

I think i can now seriously consider replacing our current email system with a new Xserve.
     
Eug
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Jan 8, 2008, 07:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
No. Data meaning files. There are no applications that will encode high-def video in a Blu-Ray compatible format (though rumors says the next version of DVD Studio Pro will).

And Apple's DVD Player.app doesn't support Blu-Ray/HD-DVD movie decryption/decoding yet. Plus, without an HDMI monitor (or DVI with HDCP) and compatible video card, you wont be able to play a Blu-Ray movie anyway (even Windows requires an HDCP-compliant monitor and video card).
Yeah, it was curious there is no mention of HDCP either. Do those video cards support HDCP under OS X?

P.S. It's annoying that iDVD didn't get HD DVD support (on DVD media), since Apple already supports playback of it in DVD Player.app. Quite frankly, I think more iDVD users would actually get more use out of it then FC jockeys, if you're talking raw numbers.
     
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Jan 8, 2008, 07:30 PM
 
I feel like I should have seen the single CPU option coming, but I totally missed it expecting a dual 2.0-2.5Ghz option; makes a lot of sense.

Sucks to see 800Mhz DDR2 FB-DIMMs at $250/GB when 800Mhz DDR2 DIMMs are $20/GB, but no one else has them so I can't really fault Apple's memory prices (yet). Also explains why they cripple such a capable machine with so little memory.

8800 GT (anyone know if it's at nominal clocks or underclocked?) is a bit of a disappointment when the 8800 GTS 512 is available. Maybe it's hope that they'll release a 9800 series card as a high-end non-pro option in a few months.

Lack of BluRay is really inexplicable... what is Apple waiting for?
     
Triath.lon
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Jan 8, 2008, 07:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post

Lack of BluRay is really inexplicable... what is Apple waiting for?
They don't know if they want to support it? HD DVD is still out there...
     
Bigfoot
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Jan 8, 2008, 07:51 PM
 
Adding another 2gig ram (total 4g) delays your order to three weeks... huh???
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Jan 8, 2008, 07:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Triath.lon View Post
They don't know if they want to support it? HD DVD is still out there...
I think Warner Brothers drove a sizable nail into that coffin a few days ago.
     
Don Pickett
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Also explains why they cripple such a capable machine with so little memory.
A minimum of 2GB is crippled? Seriously, dude, but down the bong.

I'm actually astounded that Apple, for the first time I can remember (and that's a long time) is shipping a pro machine with enough memory to actually run OS X well. My G5 came with 256 MB, which was laughable.

Lack of BluRay is really inexplicable... what is Apple waiting for?
Given the extremely poor sales of both Blue Ray and HD-DVD it's not even a sure thing that either format will be around in two years. Apple (and 95% of consumers) are waiting to see what happens with the formats.
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MacosNerd
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Also explains why they cripple such a capable machine with so little memory.
well that's easy. Its not crippled. While I'll be the first to say its low, its by no means crippled. The computer is quite useable with 2gig.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:24 PM
 
for the people who already ordered. would you be pissed if apple decides to tell that they will start a blu-ray or hddvd drive option at macworld?
     
eggman
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Sucks to see 800Mhz DDR2 FB-DIMMs at $250/GB when 800Mhz DDR2 DIMMs are $20/GB, but no one else has them so I can't really fault Apple's memory prices (yet). Also explains why they cripple such a capable machine with so little memory.
It looks to me (and I'm no expert) that Kingston has memory that fits the bill... although there's still the whole issue of "the proper heat sinks". These are at $70/GB... assuming they'd work.

1GB 800MHz DDR2 ECC Fully Buffered CL5 DIMM Dual Rank, x8
     
Bwa
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by eggman View Post
It looks to me (and I'm no expert) that Kingston has memory that fits the bill... although there's still the whole issue of "the proper heat sinks". These are at $70/GB... assuming they'd work.

1GB 800MHz DDR2 ECC Fully Buffered CL5 DIMM Dual Rank, x8
Based on the data sheet on that page, these do not have heat sinks (no mention of heat sink, and check out the physical dimensions towards the end).
     
MacosNerd
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:54 PM
 
Yeah I'd be careful in buying MacPro memory. I'd stick with OWC or Crucial. I purchased OWC and they used the same exact memory modules as apple and the same heat sinks all for a fraction of what apple was charging.
     
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
for the people who already ordered. would you be pissed if apple decides to tell that they will start a blu-ray or hddvd drive option at macworld?
Ordering an additional drive isn't hard at all. So it'll cost you a few extra $$, but it'll cost extra anyways.
     
Triath.lon
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
I think Warner Brothers drove a sizable nail into that coffin a few days ago.
I don't think it's dead yet... although it doesn't really matter to me either way, i just want there to be one format. Format wars are stupid.
     
Triath.lon
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
Yeah I'd be careful in buying MacPro memory. I'd stick with OWC or Crucial. I purchased OWC and they used the same exact memory modules as apple and the same heat sinks all for a fraction of what apple was charging.
Doesn't that effectively void your warranty on a $4k machine?
     
Reggie Fowler
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:59 PM
 
Cadaver wrote: "No. Data meaning files. There are no applications that will encode high-def video in a Blu-Ray compatible format (though rumors says the next version of DVD Studio Pro will)."



So how do i get my edited high definition movie off my computer and onto a high definition dvd? What's the point of purchasing a blu-ray burner if it can't do that?
     
Bwa
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
for the people who already ordered. would you be pissed if apple decides to tell that they will start a blu-ray or hddvd drive option at macworld?
I would only be upset it they didn't offer an upgrade kit separately.
     
Bwa
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Jan 8, 2008, 09:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Triath.lon View Post
Doesn't that effectively void your warranty on a $4k machine?
No.
     
Triath.lon
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Jan 8, 2008, 09:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Bwa View Post
I would only be upset it they didn't offer an upgrade kit separately.
Now that you've mentioned it, i suspect that is exactly why we don't see new MBs, MBPs and iMacs, since BluRay drives would have to be installed into these machines by Apple, where we can easily upgrade our Mac Pros.


P.S. i know that you can take your Mac to a certified store to have them installed upgrades, not the point.
     
mduell
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Jan 8, 2008, 09:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Don Pickett View Post
A minimum of 2GB is crippled? Seriously, dude, but down the bong.

Given the extremely poor sales of both Blue Ray and HD-DVD it's not even a sure thing that either format will be around in two years. Apple (and 95% of consumers) are waiting to see what happens with the formats.
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
well that's easy. Its not crippled. While I'll be the first to say its low, its by no means crippled. The computer is quite useable with 2gig.
Apple has targeted the box quite high by using 8x2.8Ghz as the base configuration. In a well rounded box with that much CPU power, I'd expect at least 8GB. With 2GB I'd expect something more like 4x2.0Ghz (not far from their laptops at 2x2.4Ghz with 2GB). Everyone's optimum CPU/RAM ratio is different, but I think the Mac Pro is starved on RAM compared to CPU for most users who need a Mac Pro. For my usage at work, 4x2.8Ghz and 32GB RAM would be a good balance.

Originally Posted by eggman View Post
It looks to me (and I'm no expert) that Kingston has memory that fits the bill... although there's still the whole issue of "the proper heat sinks". These are at $70/GB... assuming they'd work.

1GB 800MHz DDR2 ECC Fully Buffered CL5 DIMM Dual Rank, x8
Wow, that's a much better price (heatsinks can be purchased separately), but still 250% more expensive than regular DIMMs. Part of the premise/promise (from Intel) of FB-DIMMs is that they would achieve prices close to regular DIMMs by using the same chips.
( Last edited by mduell; Jan 8, 2008 at 09:21 PM. )
     
Reggie Fowler
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Jan 8, 2008, 09:23 PM
 
What am i suppose to do with my high definition movies on my computer. Where can i burn them to? What do i play them on. What's the point of all these companies selling HIGH DEFINITION cameras if we can't edit them and watch them later on a dvd?
     
goMac
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Jan 8, 2008, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by PaperNotes View Post
And I don't know where your Intel engineer comes from but Intel's chipsets support up to four 16X lanes.
From an Intel engineer at WWDC.

As I said, I'm sure there are other chipsets that can do it (like the NForce chipsets), but I don't think Intel has much in the way of gamer chipsets for the Xeon. Crossfire/SLI seems to be the domain of the Core boards.
8 Core 2.8 ghz Mac Pro/GF8800/2 23" Cinema Displays, 3.06 ghz Macbook Pro
Once you wanted revolution, now you're the institution, how's it feel to be the man?
     
k2director
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Jan 8, 2008, 10:02 PM
 
I hope these machines run a little cooler and quieter than my current Mac Pro 3.0 Quad. It's generally a cool and quiet machine (given it's a workstation), but I'm hoping those new CPUs can improve things even more.
     
 
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