perusing the postings on these fora i've noticed that a lot of the prices you quote for hardware are similar to what we pay over here in the UK. the difference of course being that you're talking $$$ and i'm thinking ���. so i just did a few currency conversions [www.xe.com -currency converter online] on the prices in the current macwarehouse UK brochure. a fairly typical [pricewise] company over here. here's what i've gome up with [all prices include VAT. our equivalent of your sales taxes]...

powerbook G3 400 ......�1643,83 = $2391,02
ti powerbook G4 400....�2231,33 = $3245,47
ti powerbook G4 500....�2936,33 = $4270,89

seems like an almighty rip off to me!

and, these prices will be cheaper than official UK apple webstore prices as computer warehouse always undercuts apple by a few �.

also, before anyone points out that they're american computers so they're bound to be cheaper in USA... my G3 was built in ireland and i'm fairly sure my girlfriends imac was built in thailand [or singapore].

i'd be interested to see how these prices stack up with what you're paying in the US and also what people are paying in other parts of the world?

get currency converting folks!!!

[Ryu]

Go complain in Bruxelles or Strasbourg, I mean EU. Since UK is putting the same tax rate as all the other member countries, it must be somewhere at 19.5%

So $3500(PB G4 500) + 19.5% = $4182.50

Now that's not very far the UK price, isn't it?

Furthermore, since the European market share and size is alot smaller than the American one, it's normal for Apple to applicate bigger margin.

Don't get me wrong. I live in France and I am pissed that we have to pay almost $700 more than the American Mac users but oh well...

The good news is, since there is $700 difference and some stores in the US offer free 128 or 256mb RAM or other accessories, it's worth to fly to the States for a week or something and get your PB while having some good time in SF or NY.

Conclusion:

$700 = 4800FF(uh... that's �400?)
Ticket Paris-SF-Paris = 2300FF
Hotel? Don't need one. My friend lives in SF
Food and Going out = 4800-2300 = 2500FF for a week

PB in Europe - PB in the States = 2500FF = Party Time!!!

I think that's quite descent.

Uh... I forgot. Changing the keyboard in French = 1200ff = 256MB RAM

Gotto find someone who can offer me 256mb RAM when I get my PB. Well, after all, I am ready to pay 1200ff to visit SF for a week. But well... you wouldn't need to worry about that since I assume that you would prefer the US keyboard than the French one.

[This message has been edited by Ryu (edited 03-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ryu (edited 03-01-2001).]

[GK]

It's the freakin' EU's fault, they have to put a tax
on everything and everybody.


GK

the UK VAT tax rate is 17,5% which is on pretty much everything you buy [apart from food, newspapers and childrens' clothes] so the prices would be less without tax. but don't all countries have some kind of sales tax ?

maybe someone from the US could clarify... what exactly are you paying out there [and what are the taxes which apply]. at the risk of boring everyone even more, i'll post the non VAT inclusive prices but these are only available to businesses who pay the VAT up front and then claim it back in their annual tax returns. joe public pays the prices quoted above

[UK prices before VAT]

powerbook G3 400 ......�1399 = $2034,45
ti powerbook G4 400....�1899 = $2761,52
ti powerbook G4 500....�2499 = $3634,03


those still seem a lot higher to me.

[edited by madra coz there's no "w" in "the" [it's been a long day!]


[This message has been edited by madra (edited 03-01-2001).]

[cbh]

Hey, come on, if your a business user you can claim the tax (V.A.T.)back! (I am)
If not of course it stinks

[thejackhmr]

19.5% !!!

EUck. I'd leave the damn continent.

Hey, come on, if your a business user you can claim the tax (V.A.T.)back! (I am). If not of course it stinks

i'm not and it does. even so you've still got to pay it up front. actually i was VAT registered a long while ago and managed to make a profit out of the taxman by buying a load of capital equipment, claiming the VAT back and then 'going bust'. wonder would it work twice?

i wanna know why can't apple set up shop in partnership with a few dodgy backstreet garages? then i could come to a 'nudge nudge. wink wink. the taxman need never know' cash-in-hand type arrangement. until then it's back on the game for another month or two.

[Ryu]

Yeah, sure. That's how I got my Porche too.

[seb2]

Originally posted by Ryu:
Go complain in Bruxelles or Strasbourg, I mean EU. Since UK is putting the same tax rate as all the other member countries, it must be somewhere at 19.5%
...
Furthermore, since the European market share and size is alot smaller than the American one, it's normal for Apple to applicate bigger margin.

the eu did this extremly stupid thing they called "tax harmonisation". they give member countries a minimum vat they have to take. here in germany, for example, it's 16%, afaik one of the lowest vats in the eu.

the european market share is lower than in the us, right; but the market is bigger, sorry. of course that depends on "by what". if you talk about tv, the us is bigger because one common market for tv wouldn't make any sense in the eu because of all the languages.

if you count "by consumers" (as i do when i say the european market was bigger), there's roughly 320 million europeans compared to about 250 million americans.

but that put aside, shouldn't the fact that their market share is lower here be a reason for them to try to *gain* users? wouldn't you do that by having *lower* prices?
or do they just think "well now it's too late anyway, let's take whatever we can get" -- and that with imacs with older processors and smaller graphics cards.

and their prices definetely *are* higher here. and not just a little.

i owned my first apple computer when i still was in elementary school (an apple //c) and have had several macs, i love their products (even got two newtons) -- but this imac-thing really made me wonder whether i support the right company.
plus, i've been waiting for my ti to arrive for over five weeks now and there's still no sign... :-(

[qnc]

screw the EU

I go for University prices myself

power book G4 400 �1749

no vat - research is exempt. no pay up, front just exempt from the start.
+ �150 discount for university bluk order

I just have to save now!!!

might do the america run might save even more

[DaisyDams]

Let's say I did what Mr. France suggested, and I ended up getting myself a nice G4PB in SF with some extras thrown in (your RAM prices compare to a bag of toffees over here), and I have a fine time walking over your long bridges, and all that.
Even if it did save me any cash - which I doubt - don't you have to declare buying it in UK customs? And if I decide to run it past the 'Nothing to Declare' jobsworth, the sign on my forehead saying "I got a Ti in my suitcase" will bring the sniffer dogs out, and then after the commotion either:

a) You have to pay the tax on it anyway
b) They give you an internal, 'to see what else you been hiding'

And I was under the impression that I might be able to get a slightly cheaper PB in either France or Germany anyway. Which would leave me still sneaking it into the UK.

And the moral of the tale? Wait for a PBG5, and see the prices of your PBG4 come tumbling down just like the PBG3.

PS. I didn't think you could save at University

[spike]

Originally posted by cbh:
Hey, come on, if your a business user you can claim the tax (V.A.T.)back! (I am)
If not of course it stinks

Are there a lot of people who buy a professional tool like the PBG4 without claiming back the V.A.T.? I don't think so...

A happy mac addict (claiming back VAT)

[Ryu]

Originally posted by seb2:
the european market share is lower than in the us, right; but the market is bigger, sorry. of course that depends on "by what". if you talk about tv, the us is bigger because one common market for tv wouldn't make any sense in the eu because of all the languages.

if you count "by consumers" (as i do when i say the european market was bigger), there's roughly 320 million europeans compared to about 250 million americans.

but that put aside, shouldn't the fact that their market share is lower here be a reason for them to try to *gain* users? wouldn't you do that by having *lower* prices?
or do they just think "well now it's too late anyway, let's take whatever we can get" -- and that with imacs with older processors and smaller graphics cards.
(

1. When I was saying the market size, I was talking about the Mac market size and not the potential market siez of 320 million people. Furthermore, we cannot count the total size of all 15 members of EU because we don't have such thing as Apple.eu... We have Apple.fr, Apple.co.uk etc... Therefore there is proportionally bigger investissement required for each country. After all, it's not very different from that TV example you gave us, even though I don't really think that it was adequate.

2. I totally agree with you on the iMac issue. I am really pissed too.

3. Good luck for your TiBook. I hope you will get it soon.

[This message has been edited by Ryu (edited 03-05-2001).]

[seb2]

Originally posted by DaisyDams:
And I was under the impression that I might be able to get a slightly cheaper PB in either France or Germany anyway. Which would leave me still sneaking it into the UK.

afaik you don't have to declare anything within the eu.
the uk and denmark have always been a little different, though. they're the only member states requiring you to show a passport entering the country, so i don't know about customs there.

still, i'm pretty sure you don't have to declare anything. if you had to, would there be people buying cars in belgium, spain or scandinavia?

the cheapest pbg4 400 here is � 3220 -- is that so much cheaper than in the uk?

[Ryu]

Just make sure you don't bring it in a brandnew box.

[This message has been edited by Ryu (edited 03-02-2001).]

[qnc]

yeah don't worry about man If you can save (and post grads who get paid by the uni deffinaetly save best of both worlds cheap beer young girls and fat pay check well fatish)

Shop around and people do buy cars in europe and drive them back have a friend whoes dad does this every year

europe makes sense but you have to weigh it all up

blahh blahhh blahhhh..hhhh..hhh

[DaisyDams]

PBG5 - Just a figure of speech. Meaning the price of a PBG4 will drop when they do an upgrade to, for example, a PBG5. (Pure speculation of course) Whoa Bessie!

[Ryu]

Don't worry about it... you will need to wait very long to see one of those babes. Just wait for a UMB-2 machine(which will naturally come with new GPU, and faster bus speed, and probably faster processor).

[wulf]

2. I wasn't really talking about VAT actaully when I was talking about the tax rate. I was talking about the customs. For example, call DHL and ask them how much you have to pay if you order a computer from the States. They will tell you 19.5%


This probably is a charge for VAT (sales tax).

In the UK, the duty (extra import tax paid to customs) for computers/peripherals is free. So the charge you pay is just the VAT, which is 17.5%. The courier company (or post office) will usually make a further charge on top of that, separate to the shipping charge, for the customs admin. Check out UK duties here:
http://www.hmce.gov.uk/bus/regions/dutyrate.htm


If you bring back a new powerbook from the States to the UK and declare it to customs, you would pay VAT on the dollar value.

Of course, some might be tempted to throw away all the packaging and carry their PB through customs in hand luggage, conveniently "forgetting" to declare it. But I would never condone that sort of thing =)

..wulf..

[This message has been edited by wulf (edited 03-05-2001).]

[Ryu]

Originally posted by wulf:
[b]
Of course, some might be tempted to throw away all the packaging and carry their PB through customs in hand luggage, conveniently "forgetting" to declare it. But I would never condone that sort of thing =)

First of all, you are right about the VAT. However in Frnace, the VAT is fixed at 19.60% precisely. Does this mean that I can get Ti cheaper in UK?

Who said we forget to declare things? We declare every single thing. Even our drugs and guns...

[qnc]

Quote"...First of all, you are right about the VAT. However in Frnace, the VAT is fixed at 19.60% precisely. Does this mean that I can get Ti cheaper in UK?

Who said we forget to declare things? We declare every single thing. Even our drugs and guns..."

lol

i don't think anything in the UK is cheaper than in France!!!

We love the calis hyper market and I think the principle is tha same all over France

[Ryu]

Basically, we are stuck here... no way out.

[qnc]

Yeah such a bummer

How do you reduce a countries cost of living? Anyone!!!!

[Ryu]

Live with parents... that's an idea.

[qnc]

lol

Originally posted by Ryu:
Live with parents... that's an idea.

You mean like the mammoni of Italy, 40 year-old men who still live with their mothers?

The best solution would seem to be a trip to the good, old USA. Have it shipped to a friend you trust here. Really trust. Come on in to New York, pick it up, enjoy the liveliest city in the world for a weekend. Stay at the hostel for $25 a night. Then fly home and still be a few hundred Euros ahead of the game.

[qnc]

What about SanFransico and pick one up from the factory or don't they do that?

[jellygreen]

I don't think Apple is doing 'Cupertino Campus' pick-ups right now.

Besides, the delay is coming from where they're made, not here per se.

I think that the customs thing is crasy. Let people get charged for alcohol and fags (my girlfriend lives in the UK, hence the fags). The pound is always up aginst the dollar, and you guys should get some premium for having to be that much further from Cupertino!

Come one over here to New York, pick-up your new G4 and enjoy the city, then pop your new mate into a regular computer bag and stroll on through customs. Remember, you bought it over in England?!

Do it to coincide with Macworld NYC and you can put together a really good deal. (And save some quid in the process!)

Just to clarify, I'm an American and my bad attempt of UK expressions are picked up from my lovely girlfriend who lives there.

~Mr. Jelly

[Ryu]

Originally posted by Powerbook G7:
You mean like the mammoni of Italy, 40 year-old men who still live with their mothers?

The best solution would seem to be a trip to the good, old USA. Have it shipped to a friend you trust here. Really trust. Come on in to New York, pick it up, enjoy the liveliest city in the world for a weekend. Stay at the hostel for $25 a night. Then fly home and still be a few hundred Euros ahead of the game.

I did mention that solution above... and I do think it's a good idea if your time isn't that valuable. In my case, I am writing my thesis these days and I can't afford to spend a week in NY or SF to pick a cheaper Ti. If I can long enough, I may be will do that this summer though.