[masugu]

The MacBook Pro has a 120Gig HD for the same price as a faster 100Gig HD.

Hmm.

I am thinking an extra 20 gigs might come in handy - Vs. a faster drive...

Any opinions?


120GB Serial ATA drive @ 5400 rpm [Add $100]
100GB Serial ATA drive @ 7200 rpm [Add $100]

[MORT A POTTY]

I've always hated slow HDs. I have a 5400 RPM HD in my Pismo and wish to god it was faster. hell, 7200 RPM is still too slow to me. when I get mine I'll gladly sacrifice twenty gigs for that extra speed. the processors are fast, the GPU is fast, the RAM is fast... the HD is...... the biggest bottleneck in the system.

[uicandrew]

extra space can be solved by an external drive. speed can't be "solved" and you'll notice it everyday when you launch apps or copy stuff over.

morty, what kind of hard drives do you use? do you have something faster than a 7200? and what kind of tasks do you want a faster hard drive for?

[turk.o]

Don't be so sure that the 7200 will bring that substantial of a speed boost over the 5400. there are a few test that suggest otherwise:

http://www.barefeats.com/ideide.html

http://www.barefeats.com/hard56.html

http://www.barefeats.com/mini01c.html

so i guess my point is, 7200 vs 5400 isn't the clear and substantial victory that everyone thinks it is. note that these test are all for IDE drives, and the MacBook pro uses a SATA drive, so who knows how that will effect things. also note that on that second test only one certain 7200 drive was a lot faster, who knows what SATA drive apple is putting in the MacBook Pro.

As you might have guessed, i order my MacBook pro with the 120 GB drive. in the past the HD always quickly becomes the biggest factor in having to buy a new machine, as upgrading the drives is just way too expensive for my taste. As far as using external storage, well it is a portable, i don't want to lug around another HD with me everywhere. i leave my 2x250GB 7200 drives at home in my quad.

my 2¢

t.o

[Daniel Bayer]

Originally Posted by turk.o

Don't be so sure that the 7200 will bring that substantial of a speed boost over the 5400. there are a few test that suggest otherwise:

And don't be so sure it won't.....

On order, McBook 1.83, 2GB ram, 100 GB 7,200.....

[turk.o]

Originally Posted by Daniel Bayer

And don't be so sure it won't.....

On order, McBook 1.83, 2GB ram, 100 GB 7,200.....

hey daniel, i didn't say i was anywhere near sure about any speed difference. i said it was an unknown but to be skeptical of people around here (ahem) who act like it is a guaranteed substantial performance increase. also there is an undeniable tradeoff to go for the 7200 drive: 20GB of disk space. That is a 20% increase in storage, and as the benchmarks show, only at the highest extremes was the one model of 7200 drive 25% faster than the 5400. in most test they were almost identical, and rarely more than 10% faster.


people must weigh the extra disc space that against the potentially marginal or significant speed increase; it isn't a no-brainer. that is all i'm saying.

[wuzup101]

The thing is, an internal drive will increase day to day speed as the HDD speed is a bottleneck. An external HDD can add great amounts of space at very little cost - just bought a 250gb external for $150. I personally would always go for the fastest internal drive offered at the time, as external solutions are cheaper per gb, and one can fit a lot of crap on a 100gb drive anyway.

[cambro]

This is a cost-benefit analysis that is highly case specific.

If you park a laptop on a desk and rarely if ever need to take all of your data with you...then yes, the faster HD makes sense because external storage is cheap.

If you use a laptop as a portable and need to take your data with you, then an external HD makes zero sense because, cheap or not, external storage does NOT work well in a coffee shop.

Personally, I use my laptop on the road extensively and will not tolerate external HD. So, I am willing to sacrifice whatever speed advantage the 7200 may have over 5400 rpm for an extra 20 gigs of flexibility in what I take with me.

[Daniel Bayer]

Originally Posted by cambro

This is a cost-benefit analysis that is highly case specific.

If you park a laptop on a desk and rarely if ever need to take all of your data with you...then yes, the faster HD makes sense because external storage is cheap.

If you use a laptop as a portable and need to take your data with you, then an external HD makes zero sense because, cheap or not, external storage does NOT work well in a coffee shop.

Personally, I use my laptop on the road extensively and will not tolerate external HD. So, I am willing to sacrifice whatever speed advantage the 7200 may have over 5400 rpm for an extra 20 gigs of flexibility in what I take with me.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Dan continues to run a $400,000++ a year stock photography business while on the road with his handy little external 80 GB OWC firewire drive. iView Media Pro allows him to only have to connect to the drive after he has pulled the selects so battery life is nearly a non issue.........

Ummm....yeah....whatever......

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by masugu

The MacBook Pro has a 120Gig HD for the same price as a faster 100Gig HD.

Hmm.

I am thinking an extra 20 gigs might come in handy - Vs. a faster drive...

Any opinions?


120GB Serial ATA drive @ 5400 rpm [Add $100]
100GB Serial ATA drive @ 7200 rpm [Add $100]

The 100GB@7200 will certainly be a Hitachi 7K100 while the 120 GB@5400 might very probably be a Seagate Momentus 5400.2. Comparing benchmarks the Hitachi clearly outperforms the Seagate by more than 30 % read/write rate. See Toms Hardware Guide its in german but the diagramms are english.

On the other hand the Seagate might be much quieter (see barefeats - but exactly that is my question in another thread here).

[masugu]

Thanks...

I am still vacillating between waiting for the next rev / next Intel Core duo...but appreciate the HDD discussion. Seems like a fairly gray area. I may opt for more space in the event I do more video...or want to txfr all my music. I have 40 gigs worth at this point...

I would _really_ like to hear some first hand user accounts with this machine - before I abandon my 1Gz TI PB!

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

The 100GB@7200 will certainly be a Hitachi 7K100 while the 120 GB@5400 might very probably be a Seagate Momentus 5400.2. Comparing benchmarks the Hitachi clearly outperforms the Seagate by more than 30 % read/write rate. See Toms Hardware Guide its in german but the diagramms are english.

On the other hand the Seagate might be much quieter (see barefeats - but exactly that is my question in another thread here).

um, is there a reason why you are certain that the the 100gb 7200rpm going to be a Hitachi.

based on the link you provided, there is also a Seagate 100gb SATA 7200rpm laptop harddrive.

is there a history of apple using hitachi? (i don't know since i'm relatively new to macs)

[mduell]

Originally Posted by uicandrew

um, is there a reason why you are certain that the the 100gb 7200rpm going to be a Hitachi.

based on the link you provided, there is also a Seagate 100gb SATA 7200rpm laptop harddrive.

is there a history of apple using hitachi? (i don't know since i'm relatively new to macs)

IIRC people have reported both Hitachi and Seagate 7200RPM drives in their PowerBooks. I'd guess Compal (or whoever is ODMing the MBP) uses whatever they have available.

[uicandrew]

who are IIRC? (the only IRC i know is internet relay chat)

[jimbosyn]

IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"


FWIW, I have a 1.83 with a 120gb drive ordered with applecare since it's a rev "A" system. When I edit video, i use a terabyte network share over gigabit etherenet which was faster for me than FW 800. For my portability needs, the more space the better. I'll pick up a gigabyte stick of ram at crucial and this system will be smokin


-jimbo

[Simon]

I agree with turk.o.

The question is if you need more capacity or more speed. In my experience the large HDDs have always offered me enough capacity (I don't edit movies or stuff like that), but since the HD is the bottleneck of the system in everyday use, I can really take all the speed I get.

That said, unless the 7200 RPM disk turns out to be excessively noisy or runs down the battery like crazy (which it probably doesn't), my 1.83GHz MBP will have a 7200 RPM disk.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon

That said, unless the 7200 RPM disk turns out to be excessively noisy or runs down the battery like crazy (which it probably doesn't), my 1.83GHz MBP will have a 7200 RPM disk.

The differences in noise and power consumption are pretty small.

Noise
Hitachi 7200RPM: 30 dbA
Hitachi 5400RPM: 27 dbA
Seagate 7200RPM: 29 dbA
Seagate 5400RPM: 29 dbA

Power Consumption
Hitachi 7200RPM: 2.7W max, 1.2W idle
Hitachi 5400RPM: 2.0W max, 1.2W idle
Seagate 7200RPM: 2.6W max, 0.95W idle
Seagate 5400RPM: 2.0W max, 0.8W idle

[power142]

Manufacturers of the 7200rpm laptop drives have been very careful in keeping the power consumption of the drives down.

IMO, if you're going to spend the extra money on a non-stock drive anyway, it comes down to two things - whether you value the speed or the space.

There's no doubt about it that a 7200rpm drive performs better overall than a 5400rpm drive - if the increase in spindle speed didn't increase performance, we wouldn't be using 7200rpm or faster drives in our desktop computers. Whether these things use SATA or PATA is largely irrelevant, since neither size drive will be capable of saturating either bus - it's a case of what Intel offered Apple during the design process.
If the extra 20gb is really valuable to you, then it's a no-brainer that you should go for the bigger drive.

[Simon]

Mark, I've seen those specs, but then we will have to confirm which drives Apple actually puts into the MBP to know what to compare.

3dB is quite considerable btw. 10^(0.3) = 2 which means +3dB is an increase by a factor 2! (logarithmic scale)

[power142]

Chances are, Apple will draw on multiple suppliers as it always has.

[mrmister]

Frankly, I can't understand why anyone wouldn't get the 7200rpm option on any MBP. Laptops are notoriously hard drive bound for speed; it's, in my opinion, a no-brainer.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon

3dB is quite considerable btw. 10^(0.3) = 2 which means +3dB is an increase by a factor 2! (logarithmic scale)

From the Wikipedia: A 3 dB increase in the level of continuous noise doubles the sound power, however experimentation has determined that the frequency response of the human ear results in a perceived doubling of loudness with every 10 dB increase; a 5 dB increase is a readily noticeable change, while a 3 dB increase is barely noticeable to most people.

[Simon]

Interesting. Didn't know our ear acted that way. Thanks.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by uicandrew

um, is there a reason why you are certain that the the 100gb 7200rpm going to be a Hitachi.

based on the link you provided, there is also a Seagate 100gb SATA 7200rpm laptop harddrive.

is there a history of apple using hitachi? (i don't know since i'm relatively new to macs)

Yes you are right. I missed the fact that the MacBook has a SATA interface. The ATA Momentus drive is not available (at least were I live), but the SATA indeed is.

The consumer prices of the hitachi are the lowest (compared to seagate). If this is also true for the company deal with apple, apple would probably use hitachis. Cheaper and faster.


But as a general remark to yor plan to buy a MacBook: did you notice that Phil Schiller did not give the MacBook out of his hand? Just showing a little video? That seems to me a sign that it is still in alpha state.

And the specs: No firewire 800, not a word about battery life etc. I got the feeling that there is room to improve this hardware and there might be a risk that it is a quick shot. Maybe quicker than the usual rev a Powerbooks. Also the fact that apple keeps the powerbook line alive may be a sign that the MacBook is not very mature.

I will keep my Powerbook and upgrade it with a large and fast drive for this time.
But I don't have the patience any more to sink money in a alpha version hardware product. Not even for the pleasure to get an alpha geek toy. Did this for many years and learned my lesson.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by Simon

Interesting. Didn't know our ear acted that way. Thanks.

Don't publish that you are a physicist .

Just out of interest: Did you keep all the macs that you mention in your sig or is it just your complete mac history?

[Simon]

Well, I'm a physicist not a physician, so my knowledge about ears = 0.

Um, yeah, most of them are still here. Most still work, some don't.

[moodymonster]

more scratch disk will make os x run quicker. So if you're storing a lot of stuff the extra 20GB will work in your favour, if not, the 7,200rpm version @100GB might be your best bet.

[bpd115]

I'll pocket the 100, not increase my build time, and gleefully work with a 100 gig 5400 rpm.