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design219 · May 10, 2008, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

It's a flimsy imitation of the real Battlestar Galactica.

Haha. At least "feldercarb" has never been uttered on this one.

Eriamjh · May 10, 2008, 10:28 PM

Thank the gods the "ship of lights" was just a burned out basestar!

mrtew · May 10, 2008, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by scottiB

My money is on Zarek as the finalist 5.

Now that's a LOT more interesting and believable than that other guy. Maybe he's even 'God'. I think it's pretty obvious that the final cylon isn't just another of the 7 or the 4 but something more special.

Luca Rescigno · May 10, 2008, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by scottiB

The "undiscovered country" line used by Baltar in one of his radio addresses? (Which is from Hamlet, originally.)

My money is on Zarek as the finalist 5.

I noticed the undiscovered country line too! Didn't remember until you said it.

Anyway, if we assume that RDM isn't making stuff up and really meant it when he said the final Cylon isn't in that image, there are only a few characters who could be it. Gaeta is one, as I mentioned, and Zarek is another, like you said. But you can't even count out dead people.

In fact, because only four characters seemed to hear the music, something tells me that the fifth and final Cylon wasn't in the fleet when the other four discovered their true identities. That would rule out both Gaeta and Zarek, and put more focus on the characters who have already died.

It could be Ellen Tigh, who came to the fleet under very weird circumstances. Or it could be someone like Zack Adama or Admiral Cain. There's really no way of knowing.

reader50 · May 10, 2008, 11:21 PM

Can't be Admiral Cain. We see her as a little girl in Razor, during the first Cylon war. However, Kendra Shaw is possible. Not the one we saw of course, she was on top of a nuke when it went off. But others of her model, if she were the one.

The female Hybrid model is another possibility. It would certainly leave that model in a good position to watch & manipulate the other models. The central eyes & ears of every baseship.

Originally Posted by Sourbook

The reaction of the Centurion to the death of the hybrid.

We don't know for sure if the Hybrid is dead. Having the lights go out is a cliché, but the Centurion reacted (and was shot) while the Hybrid remained very much alive. It's possible she's just offline, or in a coma until the data comes back.

I liked this episode. To be more specific, I liked the parts on Demetrius & the Baseship. The parts in the fleet were boring. A couple weeks ago, we got our first clean shot of Head Six invisibly holding up Baltar for martyrdom. The first clear evidence that Head Six & Head Baltar are independently real.

I'd hoped someone noticed, and started looking for invisible rabble rousers, coaching Baltar to undermine the Fleet's social structures. The Colonials are in a pretty desperate situation, on the run for several years now, with their numbers dwindling. Their faith might be all that's holding them together. Seems like our invisible friends are trying to remove that.

Don Pickett · May 10, 2008, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by scottiB

The "undiscovered country" line used by Baltar in one of his radio addresses? (Which is from Hamlet, originally.)

My money is on Zarek as the finalist 5.

That's a Shakespeare reference, not a Star Trek reference. And which one is Zarek? 'Zat the other politician dude?

Don Pickett · May 10, 2008, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

I'd hoped someone noticed, and started looking for invisible rabble rousers, coaching Baltar to undermine the Fleet's social structures. The Colonials are in a pretty desperate situation, on the run for several years now, with their numbers dwindling. Their faith might be all that's holding them together. Seems like our invisible friends are trying to remove that.

I don't think the faith issues are dividing the fleet. The real enemy is still the Cylons.

xi_hyperon · May 11, 2008, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

That's a Shakespeare reference, not a Star Trek reference.

Ahem. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

scottiB · May 11, 2008, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

That's a Shakespeare reference, not a Star Trek reference. And which one is Zarek? 'Zat the other politician dude?

Tom Zarek is the VP, played by Apollo from the first BSG.

The last Trek movie with the complete original cast was called "The Undiscovered Country" and had Christopher Plummer playing a Klingon general who spouted Shakespeare lines.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 11, 2008, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by scottiB

The "undiscovered country" line used by Baltar in one of his radio addresses? (Which is from Hamlet, originally.)

Yup. Baltar said "the undiscovered Country" (the same name as Star Trek 6)
at the same time the first show good old Major Kira:

design219 · May 11, 2008, 07:14 AM

Wow, I knew I had seen her before, but couldn't place her. Thanks analogue.

Chuckit · May 11, 2008, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

Yes. Other non-Cylons in the image are Roslin, Apollo, Starbuck, Helo, and Admiral Adama. So that doesn't leave a whole lot of major characters who could end up being Cylons. One possibility that has been brought up a few times was Felix Gaeta. He's not a very major character but he's been with the show a long time and he hasn't faded away the way a lot of other minor characters have.

That could just as easily describe Seelix. I really hope it's not Gaeta, just because I'm sick of how it seems like they keep starting to do things with him and then go, "Aww, **** it."

Don Pickett · May 11, 2008, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by scottiB

Tom Zarek is the VP, played by Apollo from the first BSG.

The last Trek movie with the complete original cast was called "The Undiscovered Country" and had Christopher Plummer playing a Klingon general who spouted Shakespeare lines.

Yes. I know. But since Shakespeare wrote a little bit before Star Trek, I will give the nod to Big Bill. Star Trek are not the only one to reference 'an undiscovered country'. It's a popular cite.

Luca Rescigno · May 11, 2008, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Yes. I know. But since Shakespeare wrote a little bit before Star Trek, I will give the nod to Big Bill. Star Trek are not the only one to reference 'an undiscovered country'. It's a popular cite.

The writers were probably thinking of both when they wrote the line in.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 11, 2008, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

The writers were probably thinking of both when they wrote the line in.

"The Undiscovered Country" means "the Future" no?

Luca Rescigno · May 11, 2008, 06:55 PM

No, it means death.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 11, 2008, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

No, it means death.

Well in Star Trek 6 they said it means the future.

Don Pickett · May 11, 2008, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Well in Star Trek 6 they said it means the future.

Hamlet, Act III, Scene 1:

To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?

mrtew · May 11, 2008, 10:22 PM

Here's a slight thread diversion. I was wondering if they are ever going to release BSG on Blu-ray and then a strange thought occurred to me. I wonder if they are going to release the first BSG movie from 30 years ago on Blu-ray. It was shown in theatres so the transfer should be easy.... it's not SDTV like the rest of the series probably was (or was it?). They probably won't even have to do a StarTrek TOS type special effects update because the FX were almost better than StarWars. Sure it's a little 'campy' by todays standards but it's nothing compared to Kirk and Scotty. I'd buy it. Anyone else???

analogue SPRINKLES · May 11, 2008, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Hamlet, Act III, Scene 1:

To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?

Fine, but like I said.. In star Trek it meant the future.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 11, 2008, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by mrtew

Here's a slight thread diversion. I was wondering if they are ever going to release BSG on Blu-ray and then a strange thought occurred to me. I wonder if they are going to release the first BSG movie from 30 years ago on Blu-ray. It was shown in theatres so the transfer should be easy.... it's not SDTV like the rest of the series probably was (or was it?). They probably won't even have to do a StarTrek TOS type special effects update because the FX were almost better than StarWars. Sure it's a little 'campy' by todays standards but it's nothing compared to Kirk and Scotty. I'd buy it. Anyone else???

Are you talking about the first BSG premiere in the 70's? I got it on DVD and it was painful to watch. I actually turned it off when they got to that alien casino planet.

Luca Rescigno · May 12, 2008, 12:54 AM

I think the whole "undiscovered country" phrase would mean a lot more if we had some context on what Baltar was saying.

Then again, it probably has little bearing on the plot of the show. They just threw that line in there and made sure the audience would hear it because they wanted to do a little fan service. That's probably all there is to it.

It's funny reading the reactions of the cast to some of RDM's comments. After he talked about how every character's pose in the "Last Supper" picture was significant, pretty much everyone else involved in the show thought it was new to them. RDM wasn't even present at the photo shoot. I think it was Katie Sackhoff who said the fan speculation is being taken to ridiculous levels.

But hey, that's a good sign, right? It means the show is still compelling enough that people are eager to see what happens next. Now I just hope that there actually is something to all the clues RDM's been dropping, and that he's not just coming up with this stuff on the fly in order to raise the show's mystique.

scottiB · May 12, 2008, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

Then again, it probably has little bearing on the plot of the show. They just threw that line in there and made sure the audience would hear it because they wanted to do a little fan service. That's probably all there is to it.

I agree, but a case could be made for the plot of the film being similar to BSG: one race, because of hubris or laziness, is brought to the brink of extinction and must rely on cooperation and partnership with its long-time enemy to maintain its existence.

Yadda, yadda, yadda...

analogue SPRINKLES · May 12, 2008, 12:40 PM

I can't wait to see how they pull the boxed #3 out of storage. Before the Cylon Civil war Cavel mentioned she was in storage at some station 3 jumps away or something like that. that means if this rebel cylon crew team up with BG and they want her they are going to lead a joint assault to find her so they can ask her who the final 5 are. Good times.

I am wondering what happened to all the 6's, leobens and 8's on the ships that Cavel controls though? Did they kill them all?

Uncle Skeleton · May 12, 2008, 01:21 PM

I assumed Cavil was lying about the 3 jumps away business just to get them into that ambush

analogue SPRINKLES · May 12, 2008, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

I assumed Cavil was lying about the 3 jumps away business just to get them into that ambush

Either way we know they are not on board that basestar nor do they have a resurrection ship so they are going to have to go to some depot to pick one up.

SirCastor · May 12, 2008, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Fine, but like I said.. In star Trek it meant the future.

To clarify/put this to rest, it was a mix of both in STVI. Chancellor Gorkon said it referencing Hamlet, and it could have been taken to mean death (the death of the Klingon Empire), but Gorkon clarified that he meant the future. It's a forshadow of the rest of the film as some look to the future and see Death, others do not.

Salty · May 13, 2008, 01:33 AM

For the record just watched the whole series downloaded over BT, would have bought it on iTunes but... NBC keeps loosing those sales to BT. Anyway, I have to say this is an awesome show. Though I think Seasons 1 and 2 were the best, Season 3 just... I dono, like it was still good, but I'm honestly glad they're not going for a 5th season.

Don Pickett · May 13, 2008, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Salty

For the record just watched the whole series downloaded over BT, would have bought it on iTunes but... NBC keeps loosing those sales to BT. Anyway, I have to say this is an awesome show. Though I think Seasons 1 and 2 were the best, Season 3 just... I dono, like it was still good, but I'm honestly glad they're not going for a 5th season.

The middle of the third season was definitely weak. I almost stopped watching it.

Salty · May 13, 2008, 04:37 AM

Honestly I think a lot of season 3 in the middle was stuff that were left over ideas that weren't something they wanted in Season 2. Like that bull dog guy who escaped in the raider? Wow, can we say episode that didn't matter? The one with the doctor killing the sagetarons was actually good, and what was with "Dirty Hands?" The chief says yes the union will be important still I'll do that... oh wait a month later I'M A CYLON WHO GIVES A FRACK ABOUT THE UNION!?

Uncle Skeleton · May 13, 2008, 10:03 AM

The bulldog one revealed that Adama the elder was the one who started the war; I thought that was pretty relevant

analogue SPRINKLES · May 13, 2008, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

The bulldog one revealed that Adama the elder was the one who started the war; I thought that was pretty relevant

Except it didn't make sense. THe Cylons plan was already underway at that point without Adama's involvement.

PBG4 User · May 13, 2008, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

I liked this episode. To be more specific, I liked the parts on Demetrius & the Baseship. The parts in the fleet were boring. A couple weeks ago, we got our first clean shot of Head Six invisibly holding up Baltar for martyrdom. The first clear evidence that Head Six & Head Baltar are independently real.

I don't know about that, the same thing happened in "Fight Club" and that guy turned out to be schizo, or mutiple personality or whatever. It still could be the same thing here, especially since RDM himself said that Baltar had experienced a mental break & 6 is just a voice in his head (it was on one of those Sci-Fi where are we know pre-fourth season specials).

analogue SPRINKLES · May 13, 2008, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by PBG4 User

I don't know about that, the same thing happened in "Fight Club" and that guy turned out to be schizo, or mutiple personality or whatever. It still could be the same thing here, especially since RDM himself said that Baltar had experienced a mental break & 6 is just a voice in his head (it was on one of those Sci-Fi where are we know pre-fourth season specials).

Not so sure it can be a mental problem though as both him and Caprica 6 see head baltar.
More importantly both head characters seem to have advance knowledge of future events.

Eriamjh · May 13, 2008, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by mrtew

...
I wonder if they are going to release the first BSG movie from 30 years ago on Blu-ray. It was shown in theatres so the transfer should be easy.... it's not SDTV like the rest of the series probably was (or was it?).

I'll field this. BSG Classic was shot, like most TV at its time, on film. Good ol' film allows us to have classic Star Trek in High Def and it allows us to have BSG in high def also. Remember that the movie was little more than the original 2h15m 3-part pilot edited down to 2 hours for theatres. In fact, it was shown in Canada at theatres before it even premiered in the US on TV.

Don't forget that the clean-up done for the DVDs was probably done on high-def digital masters made from the original prints. All there needs to be is demand for them to justify a blu-ray release. I'd buy it!

In addition, I came across this link on the digital bits: bsg vfx: anatomy of a cylon ? Darth Mojo

Check it out, original BSG fans.

Uncle Skeleton · May 13, 2008, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

More importantly both head characters seem to have advance knowledge of future events.

Maybe they guessed right. As they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 13, 2008, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

Maybe they guessed right. As they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Guessing that a child will be born in the jail cell long before it happened is one hell of a guess.

Didn't they already partly answer this that Six is a manifestation of the Cylons projecting abilities that for some reason Baltar has?

Uncle Skeleton · May 13, 2008, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Guessing that a child will be born in the jail cell long before it happened is one hell of a guess.

When was that?

Didn't they already partly answer this that Six is a manifestation of the Cylons projecting abilities that for some reason Baltar has?

The way I remember it, Baltar tried to make that explanation out of something that didn't quite fit, when he was grasping at any reason to think he was a cylon, but I don't remember it being confirmed.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 13, 2008, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

When was that?

The way I remember it, Baltar tried to make that explanation out of something that didn't quite fit, when he was grasping at any reason to think he was a cylon, but I don't remember it being confirmed.

Early second season when they were building the cell for Athena.

And as for the projecting... head 6 told baltar about the ability BEFORE the real 6 confirmed it. Watch Torn.

Sourbook · May 13, 2008, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Early second season when they were building the cell for Athena.

They were building the cell for Boomer, before they even knew a pregnant Athena would arrive on Galactica..

Luca Rescigno · May 13, 2008, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Except it didn't make sense. THe Cylons plan was already underway at that point without Adama's involvement.

The whole point of that episode was to show that Adama blamed himself for the attack on the colonies, even though it wasn't really his fault.

reader50 · May 13, 2008, 01:36 PM

Also, Hera wasn't born in the cell. She was born prematurely in sickbay.

Sourbook · May 13, 2008, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

Also, Hera wasn't born in the cell. She was born prematurely in sickbay.

Close enough.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 13, 2008, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Sourbook

Close enough.

Exactly. She pretty much got it right.

Also remember when head baltar was with Caprica 6 in the episode downloaded?

He set up 6 to time it so she would scratch her face when boomer thew the picture on the wall. They got it all perfectly so he obviously new it was coming.

Uncle Skeleton · May 13, 2008, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Early second season when they were building the cell for Athena.

So the prediction just required guessing that Athena was pregnant and that she would be in that cell indefinitely? Doesn't sound too difficult, for someone as supposedly intelligent as baltar's subconscious...

And as for the projecting... head 6 told baltar about the ability BEFORE the real 6 confirmed it. Watch Torn.

I will, but in the mean time, is it that hard an "ability" to intuit? I remember it being pretty much an out-of-body experience, but one you do on purpose. Not really something a smart fellow couldn't work out on his own by watching them and listening at keyholes.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 13, 2008, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

I will, but in the mean time, is it that hard an "ability" to intuit? I remember it being pretty much an out-of-body experience, but one you do on purpose. Not really something a smart fellow couldn't work out on his own by watching them and listening at keyholes.

Watch Torn again. Head 6 tells baltar about projecting and a short while later he mentions it to the real 6 and she confirms it. I can't imagine he just made it up and minutes later it is confirmed.

Oh and remember when head 6 told baltar that one of the group will betray the rest when they were on Kobol? If she is that good of a guesser I am taking her to Vegas.

Uncle Skeleton · May 13, 2008, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Watch Torn again. Head 6 tells baltar about projecting and a short while later he mentions it to the real 6 and she confirms it. I can't imagine he just made it up and minutes later it is confirmed.

It was only a short while because he's the one who brought it up. You really can't imagine that?

Oh and remember when head 6 told baltar that one of the group will betray the rest when they were on Kobol? If she is that good of a guesser I am taking her to Vegas.

The idea is that he subconsciously notices things or reads people, while his consciousness doesn't realize. That would be why it's his subconscious telling his conscious, not vice versa. I would be convinced by something he couldn't have known, not by something he showed no indication of knowing, even though the clues were in front of him.

Buckaroo · May 17, 2008, 03:14 AM

Wow, that took everyone by surprise.

voodoo · May 17, 2008, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

Wow, that took everyone by surprise.

Yeah I totally expected them to avoid the main plot for at least a few more episodes.

Also, here's an idea: let's go into this enemy base-ship and hook up their AI and hope nothing bad happens.. not the sharpest knives in the drawer, are they?

Had this been the first episode of season 4, I would have had some faith left in the series. This is trash. I don't mind watching it until the end, they tricked me through 3 pretty ok seasons, so I might as well. However, it's still trash.

jokell82 · May 17, 2008, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by voodoo

Yeah I totally expected them to avoid the main plot for at least a few more episodes.

Also, here's an idea: let's go into this enemy base-ship and hook up their AI and hope nothing bad happens.. not the sharpest knives in the drawer, are they?

Had this been the first episode of season 4, I would have had some faith left in the series. This is trash. I don't mind watching it until the end, they tricked me through 3 pretty ok seasons, so I might as well. However, it's still trash.

Yeah, let's fit in finding Kara, sending the Demetrius off on a classified mission, finding a basestar, creating an alliance with the cylons, going back to the fleet, and then having the basestar jump away with half the viper squadron and the president in a single episode. Heck, we may even have room for a single line of dialog in that episode!

If you're so convinced the show is trash, stop watching and especially stop posting in here. I *loved* this episode.