[hardcat1970]

I admitted i was stunned when steve jobs announed the 12" powerbook and priced it at $1799. However when i check the specs later on, i wasn't really that impressed because it basically is the ibook with a G4!!

I know i am going to hurt a lot of people by posting this but until Apple put that ambient light technology, firewire 800 and up the ram better than 640mb that i would consider this laptop is hard to beat!

[TheIceMan]

hardcat1970:
I agree with you. I have a feeling that a "real" upgrade will come out later on this year, "Year of the NoteBook." IMHO, what Jobs did was slap a new skin (Aluminum) on an already successful model (PowerBook) and voila! We still have another MacWorld in July don't we? My guess is that Jobs will unleash more speed then.

Don't get me wrong, I think the new models are gorgeous. But for those of us waiting for a speed bump, Apple did not deliver. I'm not going to jump everytime Jobs throws me a bone. But I'm guessing that he has more up his sleeve.

[michaelb]

Disagree. The Tiny-Alu-Book's specs are perfect for its position in the grid.

A small laptop with a 12" screen is hardly a hours-on-end production machine. It's more a satellite device: very portable, with the important specs included, while the non-essentials are left for the desktop.

Putting FireWire 800 and capacity for gigabytes of memory would be overkill for this model.

The introductory video with the travel photographer and his backpack summed it up very well I think.

I'd order one tomorrow, except I already have an iBook 700/640 MB which is already just perfect for my needs.

[Gee4orce]

The 12" kicks ass (based on the specs). What are you talking about ?

I currently use an 18 month old 500MHz iBook and it's awesome - the best computer I've ever owned. I've ordered a 12" powerbook because it's got:

* nearly 2x the CPU speed, + velocity engine
* nearly 2x the bus speed
* DDR RAM
* Nx faster graphics, with 2x the display memory
* 4x the hard drive capacity
* 5x faster airport
* built in Bluetooth
* multiple monitor support (not just mirroring)
* DVD + CD-RW

In fact, I also have a 6 month old iMac flat panel, and the 12" powerbook has:

* faster CPU
* faster bus
* faster airport
* similar graphics
* same optical drive
* bluetooth
* dual display suppoert.

This is no mere 'satellite' machine, it's a fully fledged workhorse. I think the 12" will outsell the other powerbooks 2:1, and at least match the iBook sales in non-educational markets.

[michaelb]

Oh, okay, "satellite" was the wrong term.

But it was mainly justifying the lesser specs relative to its bigger siblings:

- a 1024x768 screen is "limiting" for a production machine, still an excellent compromise for the compact size though
- no L3 cache diminishes the G4's performance, already reduced from 1 GHz to 867 MHz
- DDR RAM makes sod all difference to a Motorola processor (as the desktops have shown), just more expensive to buy
- no DVI again reduces the "production machine" suitability - "no Cinema Display for you" says the soup Nazi.

If I was getting a PowerBook for my only machine I'd be looking at something bigger, probably the 17".

But if I already had a desktop for that, as a mobile Mac the Tiny-Alu-Book would be my choice.

[Noc]

I'm leaning towards purchasing the 12" PowerBook, and actually plan on using it as a "desktop replacement"..

I figure, when I'm doing webwork at my desk (60% of the time?) I'll have my 19" Sony Trinitron, USB Mouse, Keyboard, plugged into the book. I can even take advantage of the display spanning. The other times, when I'm lying on the couch, surfing the net, writing emails or posting in Mac forums the 12" form factor will be great.

The 12" form factor will not be so great if I want to do web work on the road (w/ no monitor to plug into), but on the other hand, 15" is not that great for those purposes either -- IMHO 17" at least is necessary.

The lack of cache is concerning, but the way I see it, the 12" PB is going to be a better performer than the 17" iMac (until they update it!) so it should be adequate. Wish it would take up a GB of ram though..


The big feature that sets the PB aside from the iBook is, for me, the monitor spanning (without attempting to hack the firmware). $500 difference for monitor spanning. Hmm..

[cube_450]

Originally posted by michaelb:
The introductory video with the travel photographer and his backpack summed it up very well I think.

Disagree. Because when I want to send my photographs somewhere over the internet to my office or agency how should i do it? Any slot I or II would solve this problem. But it lacks for the 12". If ther was one I could put in a GPRS Card and "Boooom. Here we go!" like Steve used to say very often at the Keynote..

So what should I do with the 12" on a safari? You won't find Airport anywhere in the jungle

Tinyness won't be the solution for the photographer in de Video Ad. So there is very much in common with the missing features of the iBook. Still the IBM T23 is my winner - it's up to you Steve to change it!

a little diasppointed cUBe

[cube_450]

Originally posted by Noc:
I'm leaning towards purchasing the 12" PowerBook, and actually plan on using it as a "desktop replacement"..

Really disappointing that you are even not able to use products from the same manufacturer like the Apple TFT displays. What did Steve think when he made his own products incompatible?! No ADC connection! Really a shame.

Little things are only good when they offer the same features than bigger brothers.

I mean I really love the 12" because of the surface and the processor compared to the iBook. But without ADC and Card I and II slot I am not willing to buy it

cUBe

[urrl5201]

After learning mcetech.com will be installing DVD-r in to the older version Powerbooks in February, and since my 15" cool running 667 has DVI I am having second thoughts about the newer versions. Glad I didn't jump at the new versions yet. Some reported overheating 12" Powerbooks at the Mac show. I think I'll lay low till others get theirs and see how the land lays.

[icruise]

Originally posted by cube_450:

I mean I really love the 12" because of the surface and the processor compared to the iBook. But without ADC and Card I and II slot I am not willing to buy it

cUBe

You do realize that the other powerbooks don't have ADC either? I personally don't think spending (for example) $999 for a 17" screen and then another $150 for an adapter to make it work really makes sense when you can get screens of the same quality for half that. Sure, it is mildly disappointing that it doesn't have a DVI connector, but it is not something that will make me not buy one.

The lack of PC card slot is, however, unfortunate. There are firewire or USB alternatives for most cards you would want to use, but they are kind of clumsy (and of course alternatives may not exist for every use). Still, I can live with it.

[hardcat1970]

I think the 12" is compact and gorgeous, but it just wasn't the perfect 12" i thought when steve jobs introduced it. When you saw the keynote, he said that Apple took some ideas from the 17" and made it a 12" powerful compact computer. I thought, holy S***, dvi, ambient light, firewire 800....etc on a 12" compact laptop and $1799?

But then when i checked the specs after keynote, I figured out it was the same ibook specs, just a little bit smaller and has a G4 in it. I guess then my enthusiasm had died down....

I can live with the missing pci slot and 867mhz G4, but at least they should have given us dvi outputand the ambient light or maybe firewire 800 too! don't you guys think so?

After all, the ibook 800 G3 only cost $1299. Well, i'll think i'm just going to wait a little longer, hopefully by the year end I'll get one with all these features.

[bipto]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
The 12" kicks ass (based on the specs). What are you talking about ?

I currently use an 18 month old 500MHz iBook and it's awesome - the best computer I've ever owned. I've ordered a 12" powerbook because it's got:

* nearly 2x the CPU speed, + velocity engine
* nearly 2x the bus speed
* DDR RAM
* Nx faster graphics, with 2x the display memory
* 4x the hard drive capacity
* 5x faster airport
* built in Bluetooth
* multiple monitor support (not just mirroring)
* DVD + CD-RW

In fact, I also have a 6 month old iMac flat panel, and the 12" powerbook has:

* faster CPU
* faster bus
* faster airport
* similar graphics
* same optical drive
* bluetooth
* dual display suppoert.

This is no mere 'satellite' machine, it's a fully fledged workhorse. I think the 12" will outsell the other powerbooks 2:1, and at least match the iBook sales in non-educational markets.

Ditto all that!

[palmberg]

Originally posted by urrl5201:
I think I'll lay low till others get theirs and see how the land lays.

Same here. I can start saving some cash in the meantime....

[urrl5201]

...Besides, I'm not too enthusiastic about not being able to boot into 9.2 just yet. My aging 667 does not look too obsolete to me just yet, but I can understand those with older Powerbooks who are ready to bite the financial bullet and hope their investment pays off. It is exciting to read about the new Powerbooks and my anticipation of the day when the perfect 15.2" all aluminum arrives is a good thing, and possibly sooner than we think. I think I would rather hold out for that one. Finally we are moving away from that freaky paint peeling carbon fiber outer ring, a concept the industial design engineer John Ive finally implemented.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by cube_450:
Disagree. Because when I want to send my photographs somewhere over the internet to my office or agency how should i do it? Any slot I or II would solve this problem. But it lacks for the 12". If ther was one I could put in a GPRS Card and "Boooom. Here we go!" like Steve used to say very often at the Keynote..

So what should I do with the 12" on a safari? You won't find Airport anywhere in the jungle

Tinyness won't be the solution for the photographer in de Video Ad. So there is very much in common with the missing features of the iBook. Still the IBM T23 is my winner - it's up to you Steve to change it!

a little diasppointed cUBe

The IBM T series thinkpads are fine machines, no doubt-

But where, pray tell, will you find an antenna for your GPRS card when you're on safari? How much of a safari is it when you're close enough to an antenna to get signal? ;-)

[cube_450]

Originally posted by vmarks:
The IBM T series thinkpads are fine machines, no doubt-

But where, pray tell, will you find an antenna for your GPRS card when you're on safari? How much of a safari is it when you're close enough to an antenna to get signal? ;-)

Well cellular phones work almost everywhere in the world now. See emergency calls. Same almost with GPRS at least in europe.

My concern is to have a computer where i could go online under almost every circumstance. I want to be independend on telephone plugs.

Friends of mine were on a sailing trip and posted every day pictures on their web site. Wireless via GPRS. That is really cool! I think Aplle is still way behind in wireless solution here. 12" might have been a chance to proove the opposite.

cUBe

[Eug]

Re: Cell phones. Get a BlueTooth handset and use that with the AluBook.

I'm more concerned with the 12" AluBook's lack of PCMCIA because it's more of a pain downloading pix. But at least USB to the camera will do it (albeit slowly).

What also concerns me is the 640 MB max RAM. I was just testing a couple of video apps with some apps in the background on my 768 MB TiBook GHz and I was getting pageouts like crazy.

[icruise]

Originally posted by Eug:

What also concerns me is the 640 MB max RAM. I was just testing a couple of video apps with some apps in the background on my 768 MB TiBook GHz and I was getting pageouts like crazy.

What were you using? I use Final Cut Pro with 576MB without any noticable slowdown.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Icruise:
What were you using? I use Final Cut Pro with 576MB without any noticable slowdown.

I had Final Cut Express loaded with a ripped movie trailer. I was also deinterlacing that same trailer at with AfroPic. I also had a couple of other small apps running, besides the multiple Terminal windows that AfroPic opens.

Clearly this isn't the way things should be done to maximize performance, esp. on a 12" AluBook, but it did get me worried a bit.

Anyways, I think I'll keep my TiBook. I've gotten used to the 1280x854 15" screen.

[365]

Originally posted by Eug:
I'm more concerned with the 12" AluBook's lack of PCMCIA because it's more of a pain downloading pix. But at least USB to the camera will do it (albeit slowly).

Proferssional DSLR cameras such as the D1X/H and Canon 1D/DS etc.. have Firewire built into them so for the pro photographer this isn't an issue. They use the PCMCIA slot for ISDN cards but with 3G (512Kbs) mobiles around the corner and Bluetooth built into the PB, this won't be an issue for long and they can use GPRS until then.

IMHO, this is a great machine at an even greater price and Apple should be congratulated, the 17" PB is aimed squarely at musicians, it is a dream spec for this industry which Apple is keen to become the leading manufacturer in, again it's spot on product placement.

[daSilVetZ]

Originally posted by cube_450:
Well cellular phones work almost everywhere in the world now. See emergency calls. Same almost with GPRS at least in europe.

Then grab yourself a T68i, or other BT enabled phone. Wherever your cellphone gets signal, you'll be able to connect.

That is really cool! I think Aplle is still way behind in wireless solution here.

I know not of many Bluetooth-integrated laptops.. Don't you think that "way behind" is a bit of an over-statement?

[SOLIDAge]

curses!!!!

i was suppose to fill in on a 12 hour shift today w/ sub pay!!!

that woulda helped me alot on my mission to get enough to sell my Ti and get a 12" book...

curse STEVE!!!!

[BrunoBruin]

I am thinking about replacing my Cube and the little PowerBook would have really been sweet, since I could also take it along when I travel. But the lack of DVI is a deal-breaker. If I can't hook it up to my 17-inch LCD, it can't replace the Cube as my desktop Mac.

I think I will wait for the next rev and see if they add DVI, and maybe a bit of L3 goodness as well...

[tomas1119]

Don't get me wrong, I think the new models are gorgeous. But for those of us waiting for a speed bump, Apple did not deliver. I'm not going to jump everytime Jobs throws me a bone. But I'm guessing that he has more up his sleeve. [/B][/QUOTE]

I had thought about waiting but based on my flat-panel iMac with similar specs, hell how much faster does it need to be. For the majority of business people who use email, browser and an office suite of some kind, speed is beginning to approach the law of diminishing returns.
The cool factor counts for a lot.

[riverfreak]

Sorry, this is a little OT, but this thread is all over town.

- a 1024x768 screen is "limiting" for a production machine, still an excellent compromise for the compact size though

Guess it just depends on your definition of production. I worked on an iceBook at 1024x768 for two years punching code and it rocked.

People! It's all about the mobility! How much do you travel? The 15" sucks on airplanes, believe me. I fly over 100K miles a year now (I'm sure there are people here flying more than that). You want small small small. There is enough other crap to carry around without your computer taking up all the space.

And why does *anyone* care about firewire 800? By the time any 800 products are available, we'll all be drooling over the next (over even the next) generation of PBs. Inclusion of Firewire 800 as part and parcel of your upgrade threshold is ridiculous.

river

[hardcat1970]

Is not like i really want firewire 800 because it doesn't really have a big market yet. But it is just so contrast that 17" get all kinds of new technology compare to 12". I don't buy laptop for every 6 months, so it just gotta be right. I think the 12" is just two features away for my next buying.

[Commodus]

Isn't the lack of DVI more an inherent reality to deal with when using a 12" laptop? After all, having the same connector as on a 15" or 17" model would take up some of the already limited space inside the system.

What I would have liked (now that I think about it) would have been a newer video-out port that could send out a DVI signal. Being able to do display spanning with the combination of a 12" laptop and an LCD display (without hacks ) would be the epitome of cool.

I do see the 12" as being popular with people who want to step up from an older iBook or PowerBook, as well as "mobile warrior" types who want to be connected anywhere, anytime. Like the promo video notes, with the right cellphone service you could just link up using your phone and go online from some considerably less urbanised places.

[kcmac]

by Commodus

"I do see the 12" as being popular with people who want to step up from an older iBook or PowerBook, as well as "mobile warrior" types who want to be connected anywhere, anytime."

Exactly. This form factor is awesome for those of us that travel a lot. I think Apple has the right idea by sticking with the full featured book. It really has everything you need in one, very lightweight package.

The minimal, ultralight laptops require that you tote along a lot of accessories. (Of course the time you decide to stay really light and not pack them is when you need the CD Burner.)

These accessories are bulky and take up briefcase space and if added to the weight of this minimal machine, the iBook or 12" PB will always be lighter and less bulky.

[im_noahselby]

I think Apple did the right thing by introducing the 12' Powerbook G4. They are giving people a truly portable laptop, but with a G4! For those who can afford to buy the latest and greatest, that's great, but for someone like me: my money doesn't stretch that far.

I've been looking at Apple's portables for about a year. The ibook is a cheap laptop and would compliment a G4 desktop very well for my needs, but it's still hard for me to justify spending $2000+Cdn, on a G3 machine.

I've had my eye on the 15.2' Tibooks for quite some time now as well, and with every new revision I feel that much more compelled to upgrade. But it's still not quite there, in terms of a good price point for the features, yet.

--------------------
Here's a breakdown of the low end ibook G3 12.1' vs the Powerbook G4 12.1' as you can see the gap between the two is still quite large...

ibook 700: $1,600 Cdn
tibook 867: $2,900 Cdn

That's a price difference of $1,300! And for what? A G4 and ummm, a cool enclosure
--------------------

I'm still not convinced that now is the best time for me to buy. If I'm going to spend upwards of $3,500 Cdn, I expect three things:

1) G4 1Ghz
2) 1MB L3 cache
3) ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 (64MB) or a better video card...

And anything else will be icing on the cake. I don't think this is asking too much. All Apple has to do is offer these features at a price point of $1,999 US by their next revision, which would equate to approx $3,200 Cdn. Apple may even bring their lowend 15.2' to this price and that would be more than welcome. Imagine this, if you will:

12.1 (1Ghz): $1,699 (Combo)
15.2 (1Ghz): $1,999 (Combo)

Who knows? Maybe there's still room in here for a 14' Powerbook

15.2 (1.2Ghz) $2,499 (Combo)
17' (1.2Ghz) $2,999 (Combo)

In six months, I think these prices are a good estimate at where we'll be. I remain hopeful that by the next Tibook revision, these specs will be met.


-Noah

[SmileyDude]

I've always been a big fan of the iBooks, especially the iceBooks in particular -- the small size being the big factor. This new PowerBook doesn't fail to deliver on my expectations in the size category.

But, it does fail in the price category -- $1299 vs $1799 -- what is Apple thinking?

What exactly do you get for the extra $500?

- 67mhz (800mhz G3 vs 867 G4). For most uses, I can't see this making that much of a difference. I don't use a bunch of Altivec apps (any?), so while having a G4 would be cool, it's not going to be a benefit.

- 33mhz of bus speed (100mhz vs 133mhz). This is certainly a welcome change, but I'm not sure if it justifies a $500 increase... especially combined with the rest of the improvements. I've been using a 366mhz iBook for a couple of years now, with a 400mhz iMac as well. The bus speed difference is similar, but the speed difference between the machines isn't that noticable -- especially for everyday things, like surfing the web, email, etc, etc.

- slot loading drive -- more of a neat feature, than a necessary feature. Not something that I would base my entire purchasing decision on.

- Airport Exterme. Ok, the faster wireless speed is welcome -- but, then again, 11mbps is still faster than my internet connection (1.5mbps cable modem). Also, Apple lowered the price on Airport cards, so that adds another $20 difference between the iBook and 12" pbook.

- Bluetooth. This might be a big feature -- if I had any Bluetooth devices. Also, since I can always add Bluetooth to the iBook with a USB device, it's less of a necessity.

- Bigger hard drive -- 40g vs 30g. This is a welcome change, but not enough to justify the $500...

- Video spanning -- well, since you can hack the firmware on the iBook, it's questionable if this is really a feature worth paying for...

Otherwise, the specs are the same -- same memory sizes (and limits)... roughly the same video, same screen resolution... and, to top it off -- they crippled the G4 by not giving it a L3...

What I don't understand is why they limited the 12" this way -- it's almost like they had two different teams designing this, and they didn't talk to each other --- the 12" should've had the same keyboard as the 17", with the 15" getting a rev sometime this year (next speed bump...) When you pay for the PowerBook name, you should get PowerBook features -- not iBook features wrapped in a PowerBook skin.

Also, why cripple the G4? What good is it to force people who want a fast, small, lightweight G4 to have to go with a larger machine, because it has the performance they want? Is Apple affraid that a 12" 1.2ghz G4 w/L3 cache, 1gb RAM max, and a 64mb video card is gonna eat into the 17" sales? Come on, get real -- the markets are completely different. I personally never plan on buying something that large, because carrying it around with me would suck. People who want the larger screen aren't suddenly going to spring for the 12" because it's cheaper...

I wish Apple would update their BTO to be a little more Dell like... then, maybe, we could order that 1.2ghz 12" with 1gig of RAM. Then Apple could offer real choice, without having to worry about killing the sales of their pre-configured models.

So, it looks as if I'll be waiting for rev B of the 12" before buying... it's just not worth it right now...

[michaelb]

Actually, I think you listed where the $500 goes very well, but I'll add one:

- The sheer coolness factor of a sleek anodized aluminum clamshell.

Believe me, when you pull this baby out on an aircraft tray, you are going to get some interested looks.

And if the next seat is occupied by someone of the opposite sex, you are going to have a friend for the flight! (I would say "and the night" but there are young kids about these forums. )

[365]

Originally posted by michaelb:
And if the next seat is occupied by someone of the opposite sex, you are going to have a friend for the flight! (I would say "and the night" but there are young kids about these forums. )

Let's hope she's not a ninety year old grandma

[itai195]

Originally posted by SmileyDude:
I've always been a big fan of the iBooks, especially the iceBooks in particular -- the small size being the big factor. This new PowerBook doesn't fail to deliver on my expectations in the size category.

But, it does fail in the price category -- $1299 vs $1799 -- what is Apple thinking?

What exactly do you get for the extra $500?... SNIP

Seems to me like the features you rattled off just about make it worthwhile. By the way, it also has slightly better video, AGP 4X, faster memory, audio line in, support for a SuperDrive, support for a 60GB hard disk, and a 24x10x8x24x combo drive instead of a 16x8x8x24x like the iBook.

There are two ways of looking at the 12" book's price. If you're looking up from the iBook, it seems hard to justify. If you're looking down from a PowerBook, it looks like a great deal. Maybe that indicates that the entire PowerBook line is overpriced, but either way if you were in the market for a PowerBook before then the 12" is a nice addition to the line.

If you want a preposterous comparison, take the original 500MHz PowerBook G4 and the 500MHz iBook announced in May 2001. The iBook actually had a major feature that the Ti lacked for over half a year -- a combo drive...

[Eug]

Originally posted by 365:
Proferssional DSLR cameras such as the D1X/H and Canon 1D/DS etc.. have Firewire built into them so for the pro photographer this isn't an issue. They use the PCMCIA slot for ISDN cards but with 3G (512Kbs) mobiles around the corner and Bluetooth built into the PB, this won't be an issue for long and they can use GPRS until then.

IMHO, this is a great machine at an even greater price and Apple should be congratulated, the 17" PB is aimed squarely at musicians, it is a dream spec for this industry which Apple is keen to become the leading manufacturer in, again it's spot on product placement.

It depends on what you call pro I guess. Some people would call the 6 MP Canon D60 pro, while others would call it semi-pro. Whatever the case, some "lower-end" pros do use it, and it does not have Firewire.

OTOH, I would love to have Firewire on my Canon G2. 100 4 MP pixel pix take too long to download via USB. Fortunately, I have PCMCIA for this on my TiBook.

Plus I have multiple cameras, one of which is permanently mounted to a microscope. I can use USB with that, but again, having PCMCIA is much more convenient esp. when I have multiple flash cards to work with.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Eug:
having PCMCIA is much more convenient esp. when I have multiple flash cards to work with.

You could just get a flash card reader for that.

[Mr. Bump]

I would seriously consider the 12"AluBook as a desktop replacement instead of the 17" if I could connect an LCD monitor and external keyboard and mouse (via Bluetooth). That way you get the best of both worlds - an ultra portable AND a desktop. So the very least I'm waiting for is a DVI / ADC port and Bluetooth mouse and keyboard.

[hardcat1970]

Originally posted by Mr. Bump:
I would seriously consider the 12"AluBook as a desktop replacement instead of the 17" if I could connect an LCD monitor and external keyboard and mouse (via Bluetooth). That way you get the best of both worlds - an ultra portable AND a desktop. So the very least I'm waiting for is a DVI / ADC port and Bluetooth mouse and keyboard.

i agree completely. I need a new system because i am still playing with my b/w g3 with a g4-400 upgraded processor for few years now. If it has a dvi-adc port, i would have bought the 12" along with a new 17" LCD, but now, i guess i'll just wait.

However if they come up with a new desktop this summer, i guess i'll buy a desktop instead.

[Superchicken]

My big complaint is what I heard on the iBook forum a long time ago... the ports are on the wrong side! The majority of the world is right handed and the USB should be on the same side as MOST people use the mouse.

I'll stop complaining about this once apple unvails as blue tooth mouse...

I plan on buying this moddel if I can get the cash by college.. I'm not sure if I'll get a super drive one or not.. prolly not since I'll probably still have to dip into savings to get it... But either way... (honestly I just wanna be able to run iDVD) my main HOPE was for a slick iBook G4, we'll see how the iBooks and the Power Book 12 inch compares by the time I buy...
The only thing that I'd really like would be if the iBooks had a higher resolution than 1024/768... But I suppose Apple's smart for not including it... the VGA connector made my heart sing though! I can easily see myself buying a cheap CRT either 19 or 17 inch at college and plugging my Power Book to it and using that for my high res stuff... cause I really only NEED the portability for doing library and in class typing... not to mention going to rock shows and stuff with it...

I hope with the next rev they put Firewire 800 in it.. simply because I bought my iMac right before Firewire and I don't wanna miss out on faster iPods and what not. Although I've lived without firewire I can probably live without firewire two... heh.

All in all this machine looks AWSOME and so long as I get the cash this will most deffinately be in my dorm room.

[Michael_Jackson]

Originally posted by hardcat1970:
I admitted i was stunned when steve jobs announed the 12" powerbook and priced it at $1799. However when i check the specs later on, i wasn't really that impressed because it basically is the ibook with a G4!!

I know i am going to hurt a lot of people by posting this but until Apple put that ambient light technology, firewire 800 and up the ram better than 640mb that i would consider this laptop is hard to beat!

Steve, that homie be flashin some tite game, dawg, tite! I ain't seen no mother****** full featured ultra portable **** ****** notebook like this nowhere, **** ! I's gotta like a mother if I gonna be flashin' my ****** game with all dem fine -**** and **** ******down where I grew up, mother******!

That 12" **** gots some dope-**** **** specifications, be you know what I'm sayin'. Last time a homie tried to get hooked up with with a ****** aluminum laptop, he got burned like a MOTHER**** an' I ain't lyin. Ain't no shame in da game, dawg. I's just playin, don't want you **** runnin' around tellin' people and makin **** up about my 'pinions towards da new powerbook.

only problem is, I already GOTS a powerbook 15', an I just don't see no ****** reason to upgrade that like I be some kinda candy-*** cracka.

****, I guess I gots ta wait fo da prices to drop, an' you know when Apple be goin' outa business that them prices is gonna drop like a MOTHER an I ain't lyin dawg

(edit) **** man, you know I's just messin' around. Apple ain't neva goin' outa business. not as long as they gots mac homies like us kickin' up our **** an' keepin' em in business, know what I'm sayin? peace out homies, an a shout out to IVES, cuz he be down wit the APPLE 4EVA

[RMXO]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
the ports are on the wrong side! The majority of the world is right handed and the USB should be on the same side as MOST people use the mouse.

i agree so much on this. i hope Apple changes this down the road. this is the only thing i dont like about the 12" PB.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
The 12" kicks ass (based on the specs). What are you talking about ?

Gee4orce, I am all inpressed with your post. It seem someone understands that for the price point Apple cannot add 800 firewire, 2 gigs of RAM, well they could, but it would cost $500 more and then people would say it is overpriced.

The 12' is the same price I got my iBook for 14 months ago and is 10x better!

[Eug]

Originally posted by itai195:
You could just get a flash card reader for that.

Maybe Firewire ones exist, but all the multi-readers I've seen have been USB. Slow, and just as importantly a pain to carry around. PCMCIA is so much more compact, and several times faster.

I DO have a Firewire CF reader, but I no longer need to carry that around now that I have a CF PCMCIA adapter.

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by Michael_Jackson:
Steve, that homie be flashin some tite game, dawg, tite! I ain't seen no mother****** full featured ultra portable **** ****** notebook like this nowhere, **** ! I's gotta like a mother if I gonna be flashin' my ****** game with all dem fine -**** and **** ******down where I grew up, mother******!

That 12" **** gots some dope-**** **** specifications, be you know what I'm sayin'. Last time a homie tried to get hooked up with with a ****** aluminum laptop, he got burned like a MOTHER**** an' I ain't lyin. Ain't no shame in da game, dawg. I's just playin, don't want you **** runnin' around tellin' people and makin **** up about my 'pinions towards da new powerbook.

only problem is, I already GOTS a powerbook 15', an I just don't see no ****** reason to upgrade that like I be some kinda candy-*** cracka.

****, I guess I gots ta wait fo da prices to drop, an' you know when Apple be goin' outa business that them prices is gonna drop like a MOTHER an I ain't lyin dawg

(edit) **** man, you know I's just messin' around. Apple ain't neva goin' outa business. not as long as they gots mac homies like us kickin' up our **** an' keepin' em in business, know what I'm sayin? peace out homies, an a shout out to IVES, cuz he be down wit the APPLE 4EVA

Man...where you learn to talk like that...and I am the one from the Biggetty O

[Some Guy []]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
My big complaint is what I heard on the iBook forum a long time ago... the ports are on the wrong side! The majority of the world is right handed and the USB should be on the same side as MOST people use the mouse.
.

UM GUYS, it's made to be on the _other_ side so the wires don't get stuck near you mouse hand.. why would you want all these cables next to your mouse getting in your way? most ppl are right handed which is why they put the cables on the _left_.

now.. how i haven't seen a mouse with a cord that can't easily reach around the ibook's 10".. most mice cables are at least 3-4 feet long.


-justin

[mikerally]

The reality of the matter is this:

The 12 inch Powerbook doesn't make a very good Powerbook, but it makes a GREAT iBook.

Those who were in the market for the 15 inch and 17 inch Powerbooks won't blink an eye.

Those who were in the market for an iBook, but just held out because the only thing it lacked IMHO was a G4 - and it was the only thing left to wait for (especially for current iBook owners, who I doubt would want to spend $1,000+ just to upgrade from a G3 to a G3) this machine is great.

It's price is way way way closer to that of an iBook than a Powerbook, and I think it has suffered as a misbrand.

The 12 inch Powerbook G4 may sell more (in the long term) if it was labelled as an iBook - because at the end of the day, that is what it really is, a G4 iBook with an iBook form factor and Powerbook styling.

This machine is not going to appeal to "power users" at all, but will really capture the "prosumer" iBook market - who have actually been waiting for this all along.

I mean hell, the top iBook is $999 and the former bottom 15 inch Powerbook is $1,799.

Now explain to me why hell I should pay $800 extra just so I can have a G4 (so I can have at least the Velocity Engine - regardless of L3 Cache - not even the iMac or eMac has L3 Cache) and built-in Bluetooth?

---

Oops this is a bit of a typo, and this paragraph has come off totally wrong - read a post further down on what I really meant.


So the answer is that the 12 inch Powerbook *is* a great deal - it's just been mislabelled - if it was labelled as an iBook - then nobody would be asking these questions.

Even in some cases where the 800Mhz iBook may outperform it - it's by such a small margin (even when you look at the Barefeats tests, only 1-3 points out on the score) - and of course it will beat the iBook in other stuff like CD-Writing (24x slot loading burner as opposed to a 16x tray loading) and Altivec accelerated operations.

[icruise]

Originally posted by mikerally:

So the answer is that the 12 inch Powerbook *is* a great deal - it's just been mislabelled - if it was labelled as an iBook - then nobody would be asking these questions.

I think the reality of the situation is that the labels "iBook" and "PowerBook" were really only completely relevant when there were only two product lines available. They allowed users to easily distinguish between the two machines based on their needs. Now we have a whole spectrum of portables, including the 12" which in many ways sits right between the two lines.

But if we have to argue about nomenclature, I think that the 12" model will sell better as a Powerbook. This may be because I have had Powerbooks for years and because I lusted after them for long before I actually got one, but I think they have a certain mystique that the ibooks lack.

[Hozie]

Just a word on the lack of a DVI connector in the 12" PB. I kinda think that, as commodus pointed out above, Apple didn't manage to fit in a DVI connector in addition to all of the other ports. The big advantage (from a design point of use) with only putting in VGA is that they already had a proprietary connector which was SMALL, because they made you use a dongle. Now I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have that kind of small proprietary --> DVI port ready, as they would've had to develop it specifically for this model.(Remember, the iBook is considered consumer so is left out for the time being, and the 15" and 17" have plenty of room.)

What I think might happen in the future is that Apple finally comes out with a proprietary connector which includes DVI (and therefore VGA) pins and requires a dongle. I can't see them putting in the connector on the frame directly though. Anyway, I'm all for DVI and this isn't an apologetic post about why it's okay for Apple to have left it out, just wanted to clarify the issue...

[kcmac]

mikerally,

If you don't want it, why should we have to try to make you get one by explaining what has been posted to death over and over and over in this and other threads.

You shouldn't assume that because it doesn't fit in your mind as a Powerbook that it doesn't in others.

There have been many posters that have already claimed they want a 12" PB and they previously owned a PB.

I think most all of your strong statements against the 12" PB will be borne out to be totally wrong. I'm just glad Apple thinks differently than you about this book.

[all2ofme]

mikerally wrote:

"Now explain to me why hell I should pay $800 extra just so I can have a G4 (so I can have at least the Velocity Engine - regardless of L3 Cache - not even the iMac or eMac has L3 Cache) and built-in Bluetooth?"

------

I think that one should (or shouldn't) pay the extra $800 over an iBook based on the merits of the extra features.

These merits, in my opinion, have nothing to do with it being called an iBook or a Powerbook.

The same behaviour seems to exist with all manner of other products, digital cameras as detailed by Eug as a great example - it's a real tendency (and I'm sure it just comes down to simple marketing) to focus on nomenclature instead of the abilities of the product in question.

Edit: Uhhhh, typo - brain slower than fingers.

[olli2]

Does it really matter, how you call a machine, iBook or PowerBook? It will have the same specs. I think, this machine is really between the former iBooks and PowerBooks, and has many appealing features.

If you really want to carry your laptop, and use it on the go, the 12" screen size is the most convenient. Larger screen sized laptops won't easily fit into a backpack, I would consider something with a larger screen if I carry it with my car, once in the morning and back in the evening. Then, the large screen is less comfortable if you want to work with it on your lap, you cannot see the whole screen without moving your head, with less room for your arms. The 15" consumes considerably more power compared the 12" screen, so either you need to have a bigger battery (heavier) or make the whole less power consuming.

The best in this 12" PowerBook for me is the integrated BlueTooth and Wireless Lan. It is not easy to combine them next to each other, most PC laptops have problems if you want to communicate with both enabled. I hope Apple has a stable and error free solution. BlueTooh enables you to use any phone in 10 m reach to connect to GPRS (why not have a second phone - cheap - dedicated only for GPRS in your bag). You can have a wireless BlueTooth mouse without any extra cords, adapters, antennas. Just take your mouse, and use it. Then connecting to PDA is a breeze now. You can connect to BlueTooth printers (can add a BT module to a printer easily), other laptops. BlueTooth alone makes this machine great.

The lack of the PCMCIA slot - well, it would be much nicer with that, this is ture. However, with so many things already integrated (bluetooth, wireless lan, second monitor support, cd-rw) ... the only thing I would use it for is to download files from CF cards, or to fill a Memory Stick for my MP3 player. But, maybe newer devices will have WLan also integrated, and speeding things up.