[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Now M$ and Nintendo are goin with standard DVD-DL discs and Sony is going with the unproven, unstandard, properietary format, that is expensive across the board.

You know they do something right when Nintendo fanboys have to resort to lies in order to make their points. BluRay is a standard, bub, and it'll even come equipped in all Macs a year or so from now.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Busemann

You know they do something right when Nintendo fanboys have to resort to lies in order to make their points. BluRay is a standard, bub, and it'll even come equipped in all Macs a year or so from now.

Ummmmm...heresay ? no offence "bub"....but last i checked Sony was the developer of Blu-Ray and any studio that wants to release content on that format will have to pay sony a royalty fee. I dont know if this has changed ...so yea.

On the other hand...HD-DVD is developed by the same independent group that brought you DVDs. So at the very least BluRay is properietary with compared to HD-DVD. Claiming BluRay is a standard is like claiming Vista is a "standard", when it's owned by Microsoft and isnt even out yet.

PS>> i honestly couldnt care less which format is a standard or wins or whatever. i have no loyalty to either side. ill let the market decide the winner before i make my purchase 3-5 years from now.

[Hawkeye_a]

So back to games.... check out this "Red Steel" video ( http://www.infendo.com/ (scroll down) ). it appears to be a lot nicer compared towhat we saw at E3. im not sure what to beleive now lol.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

You know they do something right when Nintendo fanboys have to resort to lies in order to make their points. BluRay is a standard, bub, and it'll even come equipped in all Macs a year or so from now.

I hate to say it, being a Mac guy... but Microsoft isn't supporting Bluray, which means it won't be standard to %94 of the computer market. If given the option, I'll be buying HD-DVD myself. If Apple won't support the HDCP on HD-DVD, I'll be ripping my HD-DVD's on Windows. I don't trust Sony's "copyright protection."

[ink]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Also, people had an ssue with properietary formats and non-standards....cartridges and GC discs... it "apparently" made things more expensive for developers and consumers.

That didn't have as much to do with proprietary vs. standards-compliant so much as 650MB on a 50-cent disc vs. 8MB on a $5 cart. Who knows how much blu-ray media is, but we know that DVD media is dirt cheap (but blu-ray is much better). This is going to be an interesting generation. Maybe Nintendo have finally figured out that the pirates actually help with overall sales.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Ummmmm...heresay ? no offence "bub"....but last i checked Sony was the developer of Blu-Ray and any studio that wants to release content on that format will have to pay sony a royalty fee. I dont know if this has changed ...so yea.

On the other hand...HD-DVD is developed by the same independent group that brought you DVDs. So at the very least BluRay is properietary with compared to HD-DVD. Claiming BluRay is a standard is like claiming Vista is a "standard", when it's owned by Microsoft and isnt even out yet.

PS>> i honestly couldnt care less which format is a standard or wins or whatever. i have no loyalty to either side. ill let the market decide the winner before i make my purchase 3-5 years from now.

Umm.. why do you even bother to make this stuff up when the facts are so easily available??

http://www.blu-ray.com/info/

[Hawkeye_a]

Mate, i dont give a flying f*ch if the consoles use cartidges, discs, crystals or pure energy. im about the games, the cost of playing em...and the implications that has for the future of the industry.

With products like Windows, Interent Explorer, ATRAC, Mini Disc, WMV and UMD....we al saw what that did for the consumer. i do not want the public to find themselves in a situation where they are at the mercy of a global corporation inorder to enjoy content. thats all.

So knock me down all you want, i really dont care about the media or the technology behind it. I dont care..i dont even want to read up about this, cause in the end...only one format will win this war...ill just see it through....i dont care if its Sony or HD-DVD or whoever wins.... if its too expensive i could even pass through the whole HD era till the next one arrives 5-10 years from now. who know ?

[starman]

Translation to the above post:

"I can't read so I'll just back out by saying I don't care".

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by starman

Translation to the above post:

"I can't read so I'll just back out by saying I don't care".

exactly

[goMac]

Sony has stated they don't care about market share for the next gen war.

http://games.kikizo.com/news/200606/010.asp

I for one look forward to SWG no longer quoting market share numbers in the wake of this new commandment from on high.

[angelmb]

EDGE's next issue looks cool,

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by angelmb

EDGE's next issue looks cool,

Sweet. Their E3 issues are always really good

[angelmb]

NY Times article about the Wii,

http://tinyurl.com/r694x

plus an interview with Mr. Iwata and Miyamoto,

http://tinyurl.com/lqfzu

[angelmb]

Inside SONY, a look at the upcoming PS3

[nforcer]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171 does not look good for Sony. If it turns out to be true, they are going to be a year late to market, have less power than the Xbox 2, cost more than the competition, have no compelling online service, and no compelling launch titles (unless you are a fan of giant enemy crabs from real battles in japanese history with weak points you can hit for massive damage).

At this point the Phantom sounds like a better deal than the PS3.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by nforcer

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171 does not look good for Sony. If it turns out to be true, they are going to be a year late to market, have less power than the Xbox 2, cost more than the competition, have no compelling online service, and no compelling launch titles (unless you are a fan of giant enemy crabs from real battles in japanese history with weak points you can hit for massive damage).

At this point the Phantom sounds like a better deal than the PS3.

Don't worry, SWG will still buy one. He'll probably will love watching Big Momma's house too.

After all it's not Nintendo.

[ink]

Originally Posted by nforcer

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171 does not look good for Sony. If it turns out to be true, they are going to be a year late to market, have less power than the Xbox 2, cost more than the competition, have no compelling online service, and no compelling launch titles (unless you are a fan of giant enemy crabs from real battles in japanese history with weak points you can hit for massive damage).

At this point the Phantom sounds like a better deal than the PS3.

But it'll have Blu-Ray, and it'll do 1080i.

That's what a video game machine needs to succeed

This is starting to sound like the 3DO.

EDIT: According to slashdot, this is all FUD anyway.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac

Don't worry, SWG will still buy one. He'll probably will love watching Big Momma's house too.

After all it's not Nintendo.

Look, SWG and I don't agree on a few things, but don't friggin' LIE like that. That just makes you look like that much more of a prick fanboy. He's stated many times he likes Nintendo. YOU on the other hand take criticism as some kind of personal attack and GOD FORBID anyone, no matter how much money they've spent on Nintendo products, should they say anything bad about Nintendo, they must be a Sony fan.

Grow up.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally Posted by nforcer

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171 does not look good for Sony. If it turns out to be true, they are going to be a year late to market, have less power than the Xbox 2, cost more than the competition, have no compelling online service, and no compelling launch titles (unless you are a fan of giant enemy crabs from real battles in japanese history with weak points you can hit for massive damage).

At this point the Phantom sounds like a better deal than the PS3.

The author of that article is completely uninformed. That quoted 16MB/sec is the read speed to the CPU of the GPU's memory. The whole reason it was designed that way is that you should NEVER have a need to read from GPU local memory to the CPU. This isn't much different than standard PC architecture as it is, as the CPU shouldn't ever have to read from graphics memory, and should only usually have to write to it (which is why AGP had FAST WRITES from the CPU and not for reads). Like somebody on /. said, if you need to read the graphics memory with the CPU, have the GPU write the data needed to main memory. But it's not like you need to read texture data on the CPU anyway. You shouldn't. Anything immediately concerned with rendering is only important to the GPU once it's in GPU local memory.

The FUD against Sony and the PS3 is just getting ridiculous lately.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Stratus Fear

The author of that article is completely uninformed. That quoted 16MB/sec is the read speed to the CPU of the GPU's memory. The whole reason it was designed that way is that you should NEVER have a need to read from GPU local memory to the CPU. This isn't much different than standard PC architecture as it is, as the CPU shouldn't ever have to read from graphics memory, and should only usually have to write to it (which is why AGP had FAST WRITES from the CPU and not for reads). Like somebody on /. said, if you need to read the graphics memory with the CPU, have the GPU write the data needed to main memory. But it's not like you need to read texture data on the CPU anyway. You shouldn't. Anything immediately concerned with rendering is only important to the GPU once it's in GPU local memory.

The FUD against Sony and the PS3 is just getting ridiculous lately.

Forget about the bandwidth to RSX. This alone is pretty damning imo:

"Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart."

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by goMac

Forget about the bandwidth to RSX. This alone is pretty damning imo:

"Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart."

Well, I guess a steak in the heart would kill you. It'd just be a lot more difficult to get in there than a stake.

Actually, I think I'll just get my PS3 bashing articles from someone who can spell, thanks.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Well, I guess a steak in the heart would kill you. It'd just be a lot more difficult to get in there than a stake.

Actually, I think I'll just get my PS3 bashing articles from someone who can spell, thanks.

Well, I'm hoping the 10 year old couldn't have possibly mixed up how many triangles the PS3 can draw.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally Posted by goMac

Forget about the bandwidth to RSX. This alone is pretty damning imo:

"Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart."

Based on the fact that he already proved that he didn't know what he was talking about in regards to bandwidth, I'm not inclined to believe that quote either. I'll go somewhere else for info than the Inq.

Edit: And, based on some facts on Nvidia's website, if the RSX is based off of the 7800/7900 nvidia chips, that triangle quote is probably out of whack. The 7900 is capable of 1400 million vertices a second, and if you were to draw non-connected triangles, that means the chip could do almost 500million. That isn't including the fact that most triangles are adjacent in a 3d scene. Where it takes 3 vertices for one triangle, it only takes 4 for 2 triangles, and so on. Real life throughput will obviously be lower, but just do some math and you'll get a good idea.

[Hawkeye_a]

I wouldnt be using the "inquirer" as a source for reliable information.

We'll see results when these machines are released.

[goMac]

Rumor has it Sony has ditched the idea of doing emulation of the PS2 and instead will be including the PS2 on a card with the PS3, to be replaced at a later point with emulation.

This should raise the production price of the PS3. I'm curious as to whether Sony will just not include the PS2 on a chip with the $500 PS3. I'm also curious as to what this means about PS1 emulation, given that the PS2 could only play PS2 games because it had a PS1 on a chip.

[MindFad]

[Hawkeye_a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCjtgYbYkrU (Metroid Prime 3 trailer) looks sweeetttt !!!!

[MindFad]

The 20-minute video on IGN (insiders only, unfortunately) of the entire E3 MPC demo is incredible. Especially the Balrog-esque Ridley battle at the end whilst falling down that huge tube. I never played Metroid Prime 2, though. I must get on that.

Here's (10.5MB) a few clips from it.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Holy cow you tarts still at it?

Watch this video, the ending is the best part

http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=3852

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by nforcer

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171 does not look good for Sony. If it turns out to be true, they are going to be a year late to market, have less power than the Xbox 2, cost more than the competition, have no compelling online service, and no compelling launch titles (unless you are a fan of giant enemy crabs from real battles in japanese history with weak points you can hit for massive damage).

At this point the Phantom sounds like a better deal than the PS3.

Guess what, turns out the story was written by someone with as much technical knowledge as GoMac:

http://portable.joystiq.com/2006/06/...ow-and-broken/

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Guess what, turns out the story was written by someone with as much technical knowledge as GoMac:

http://portable.joystiq.com/2006/06/...ow-and-broken/

It's probably not a good idea to pick fun at my technical knowledge...

The Joystiq article says nothing about the triangle output.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by goMac

It's probably not a good idea to pick fun at my technical knowledge...

Oooh scary! What are you going to do sick Bowser on me?

Oh and:

"(Update: The misunderstanding evident in the linked story relates to the distinction between local video memory and local system memory. The slow read speed under discussion is indicative of the feature's lack of utility. This is even reflected on the slide's statement: "No, this isn't a typo ..." A contact at Sony confirmed this telling me, "Again I cannot imagine a situation where you have any SPU reading from the RSX local memory." Nothing to see here, folks.)

How about one of Ars Technica's famously exhaustive looks at the thing ... in two parts. The Ars guys are part processor, it appears, and they didn't manage to identify some singular shortcoming that will doom the PlayStation 3 as an also-ran."

[ort888]

Who wants triangles anyway? I'm more interested in how many zombies it can crank out.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

it is funny how the Nintendo crew of "graphics are suddenly unimportant" are now trying to make the graphic abilities of the PS3 look bad.

Even if what above was true (and it isn't) it is still better than the wii.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

"(Update: The misunderstanding evident in the linked story relates to the distinction between local video memory and local system memory. The slow read speed under discussion is indicative of the feature's lack of utility. This is even reflected on the slide's statement: "No, this isn't a typo ..." A contact at Sony confirmed this telling me, "Again I cannot imagine a situation where you have any SPU reading from the RSX local memory." Nothing to see here, folks.)

How about one of Ars Technica's famously exhaustive looks at the thing ... in two parts. The Ars guys are part processor, it appears, and they didn't manage to identify some singular shortcoming that will doom the PlayStation 3 as an also-ran."

You'd think Sony would be eager to talk about how many triangles it can push, but they don't mention a thing. Also the Cell has somewhat little to do with how many triangles it can push, that's all in GPU land.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ort888

Who wants triangles anyway? I'm more interested in how many zombies it can crank out.

Zombies are made out of triangles silly.

[ort888]

Zombies are made out of rotten flesh.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

it is funny how the Nintendo crew of "graphics are suddenly unimportant" are now trying to make the graphic abilities of the PS3 look bad.

Even if what above was true (and it isn't) it is still better than the wii.

The difference is the Nintendo Wii has something else going for it other than graphics, while all the PS3 is is graphics. If the PS3 can't even keep the graphics crown, the only thing that is ever going to sell the PS3 is the Sony name.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac

It's probably not a good idea to pick fun at my technical knowledge...

Why not? You've already been bitchslapped in other threads.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac

The difference is the Nintendo Wii has something else going for it other than graphics, while all the PS3 is is graphics. If the PS3 can't even keep the graphics crown, the only thing that is ever going to sell the PS3 is the Sony name.

So the PS3 doesn't have:

Games?
Online support?
Badass hardware?
Did I mention games?

What do you think the PS3 is, just some box that shows pretty colors?

STOP BEING A FRIGGIN' FANBOY.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by starman

Why not? You've already been bitchslapped in other threads.

Ya he got his ass kicked sideways when he was muttering out all that crap about the GMA in the macBooks. And now he wants to impress us on his PS3 knowledge when ARStechnica doesn't even back his 19 year old claims.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by goMac

The difference is the Nintendo Wii has something else going for it other than graphics, while all the PS3 is is graphics. If the PS3 can't even keep the graphics crown, the only thing that is ever going to sell the PS3 is the Sony name.

Since the PS2 was actually the least powerful console last time round, how do you explain its success? Can it all be attributed to the Sony name?

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Since the PS2 was actually the least powerful console last time round, how do you explain its success? Can it all be attributed to the Sony name?

Not only that but the PS2 has the worst hardware and managed to output 1080i when Nintendo doesn't even make 99% of its games widescreen at 480i.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Since the PS2 was actually the least powerful console last time round, how do you explain its success? Can it all be attributed to the Sony name?

I attributed it to being the first one out and having a large game library. Again, the PS3 has neither.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Ya he got his ass kicked sideways when he was muttering out all that crap about the GMA in the macBooks. And now he wants to impress us on his PS3 knowledge when ARStechnica doesn't even back his 19 year old claims.

What? The Macbook runs a surfing program at 2 fps. And Rosetta doesn't really slow OpenGL. Even with Rosetta a small time surfing game shouldn't be getting 2 fps. No, I don't think I was exactly proven wrong with that. Get over it. The GMA950 is crap. Every 13 year old Windows user knows that. I'm not saying the machine is unusable, I actually like the machine a lot. I just hate to see what happens to it when Apple upgrades their window server. There are already accounts of Vista's window server chopping up on the GMA950. Yes, Vista's window server will run on the GMA950. It won't run well. And that doesn't bode well for when Apple upgrades their window server.

Again, Sony has not disputed the claim on the triangle numbers. When they do, you're welcome to come back here and shout it from the roof tops. Personally, I find it extremely odd that they didn't dispute the triangle numbers. It seems to make sense that a company running a very hot system trying to fit it in a small case would underclock the GPU and reduce it's performance to meet a deadline.

And if you check, I wasn't the OP. So please un-wad your panties. I don't generally post rumors here, aside from the PS2 on a chip because it seemed to be pretty reputable and Sony has done that before. If I made a business of posting rumors this thread would probably be filled with things I've heard about the Wii. Of course this is coming from the guy who posted a rant thread on the "Nintendo Go", so you aren't exactly one to talk on quoting reputable sources.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman

So the PS3 doesn't have:

Games?
Online support?
Badass hardware?
Did I mention games?

What do you think the PS3 is, just some box that shows pretty colors?

Oh no. The PS3 is great at realistic crab combat and inflicting massive damage. I'm just more interested in what the XBox360 and Wii have to offer.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by goMac

I attributed it to being the first one out and having a large game library. Again, the PS3 has neither.

It wasn't the first one out. Nice try though. And its game library wasn't particularly impressive for the first 18-24 months anyway.

And what do you mean with "the PS3 has neither"?? It's pretty common that an unreleased console doesn't have a large game library.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by goMac

I attributed it to being the first one out and having a large game library. Again, the PS3 has neither.

The PS3 has more games announced than the Wii and will be 100% backwards compatible with PS2 without having to rebuy your games.

But you knew that.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by nforcer

(unless you are a fan of giant enemy crabs from real battles in japanese history with weak points you can hit for massive damage).

Ambrosia has 'em beat with Sketch Fighter 4000 Alpha (3rd pic.)

[MindFad]

Stupid Nintendo for not including NES compatibility.