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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > The UK lets them buy, Then Putin has them die

The UK lets them buy, Then Putin has them die
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The Final Dakar
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Jul 27, 2017, 08:52 PM
 
Continued from the Russia thread. A completely different conspiracy theory, this of the possibly convenient deaths of Putin foes all over the world, but specifically the UK.

Found the article! https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/...n-british-soil

Originally Posted by subego View Post
The only way I would have trouble buying this is if there's no quid pro quo tucked away somewhere.
The core reason British authorities have turned a blind eye, a current senior national security adviser to the British government told BuzzFeed News, is fear. Ministers, he said, were not prepared to take the “political risk of dealing firmly and effectively in whatever way with the activities of the Russian state and Russian-organised crime in the UK” because the Kremlin could inflict massive harm on Britain by unleashing cyberattacks, destabilising the economy, or mobilising elements of Britain’s large Russian population to “cause disruption”.
A senior US intelligence official, who is still serving and cannot be named, told BuzzFeed News that the British have “downplayed involvement of Russians on their soil for years”. Reflecting the views of several sources, he added: “The Brits made a deal years ago that the Russians could come in and spend money on housing and stimulate the economy and they’ll look the other way.”


Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lled_in_Russia

Is there a similar list for the US/UK?
Well, the article alludes to 14. I imagine that's a start.
     
subego
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Jul 27, 2017, 08:57 PM
 
Boris very sorry. Take rubles. Buy nose powder.
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 01:44 PM
 
Buzzfeed thinks they can call one on US soil now.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 28, 2017, 01:45 PM
 
Did you buy the quid pro quo explanation? Different take?
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 01:53 PM
 
Boris have wares if you have coin.

Sounds about right. There's probably more to it, but mountains of cash go a long way towards a "quid".

The important idea here though is what's stopping the U.K. from doing anything about it is the "fear" they get the rep of not carrying through with their side of the bargain.
     
Doc HM
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Jul 28, 2017, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Boris have wares if you have coin.

Sounds about right. There's probably more to it, but mountains of cash go a long way towards a "quid".

The important idea here though is what's stopping the U.K. from doing anything about it is the "fear" they get the rep of not carrying through with their side of the bargain.
Unlikely.

More likely is naked fear of Russian reprisals. In terms of loosing the main support thats propping up London property prices (and therefore the entire UK economy), fear of actual reprisals in cyberspace and possibly even men with large hammers visiting politicians relatives).
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 28, 2017, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Unlikely.

More likely is naked fear of Russian reprisals. In terms of loosing the main support thats propping up London property prices (and therefore the entire UK economy), fear of actual reprisals in cyberspace and possibly even men with large hammers visiting politicians relatives).
I agree, I'm not getting where what you're drawing your conclusion from subego. The quote from british source in the article says they're scared:
The core reason British authorities have turned a blind eye, a current senior national security adviser to the British government told BuzzFeed News, is fear. Ministers, he said, were not prepared to take the “political risk of dealing firmly and effectively in whatever way with the activities of the Russian state and Russian-organised crime in the UK” because the Kremlin could inflict massive harm on Britain by unleashing cyberattacks, destabilising the economy, or mobilising elements of Britain’s large Russian population to “cause disruption”.
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 07:54 PM
 
From this quote in the article:

"The Brits made a deal years ago that the Russians could come in and spend money on housing and stimulate the economy and they’ll look the other way."

If the U.K. retaliates, they're breaking a deal. If the Russian's counter-retaliate it's because they're mad the U.K. broke the deal.

Boris give coin for you to look the other way. You take coin and not look other way, Boris get very angry.

You not like Boris when angry.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 28, 2017, 08:24 PM
 
How do you end the deal? How do you say one side has overstepped their bounds?

I think fear makes more sense, though with Brexit, they need the damn money.
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
How do you end the deal? How do you say one side has overstepped their bounds?
The same way mobsters do.

So yes, there's fear involved, but I'm trying to distinguish the difference between how a cop fears the mob, and a cop on the take fears the mob.

A cop may say they look the other way on mob activity because they fear retaliation.

A cop on the take from the mob who says the same thing is like, technically right, but I kinda feel it's a dishonest appraisal.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 28, 2017, 09:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The same way mobsters do.
So how does a country do that in this situation?
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 09:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
So how does a country do that in this situation?
Meaning "terminate the contract"?

With Russia and the U.K.?

Right now I'd say they're hosed. In an alternate universe, we'd lean on Russia for them if the price was right.
     
Doc HM
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Jul 29, 2017, 04:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
From this quote in the article:

"The Brits made a deal years ago that the Russians could come in and spend money on housing and stimulate the economy and they’ll look the other way."

If the U.K. retaliates, they're breaking a deal. If the Russian's counter-retaliate it's because they're mad the U.K. broke the deal.

Boris give coin for you to look the other way. You take coin and not look other way, Boris get very angry.

You not like Boris when angry.
No one is going to take Russias side if they claim that the UK broke a "deal" they had that allowed them to basically slaughter their way across London.

It's hard however to see how the UK backs out of this. Once you've let the sharks in...

The Russians use London property as basically money laundering so will take a dim view of anything that puts a dent in their operations, be this law enforcement daring to investigate killings or the UK government daring to amend legislation to make London less appealing as a money haven.

Given that the only thing the UK economy has going for it it inflated property prices the Russians have the UK governments balls in a vice. And that's before they even have to get the Russian state involved.

Side note. Interesting how none of this EVER gets into the UK press, on on TV. I guess journalists have hammerphobia too. Kudos to Buzzfeed for running it.
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subego
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Jul 29, 2017, 11:18 AM
 
There's taking Russia's side, and exposing our assets in order to protect you.

We won't do this. Not if Russia plays by the rules and keeps it low-key.

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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 8, 2018, 02:43 PM
 
So we can add a ex-Russian spy turned defector to the list. Nerve gas. Got him, his daughter visiting from Russia, and 19 other bystanders.

Coolcoolcool
     
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Mar 9, 2018, 03:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
So we can add a ex-Russian spy turned defector to the list. Nerve gas. Got him, his daughter visiting from Russia, and 19 other bystanders.

Coolcoolcool
Whats scary is just how few f^^ks the Russians give.

Basically they could have not been more careless, not just in hitting their "traitor" but in spraying nerve agent around. And then they just shrug and say "what!!! who? us?"

A few weeks ago the UK government issued a response to continued Russian thuggery in the UK which was essentially (and I'm not kidding) "We know what they are up too, and we aren't going to be letting them get away with it for very much longer"

Indeed.
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Mar 10, 2018, 01:06 PM
 
     
Thorzdad
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Mar 13, 2018, 12:21 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 13, 2018, 12:27 PM
 
look forward to his links being explored
     
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Mar 13, 2018, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
They all sound like such lovely people. The problem is the UK is about the easiest place in the world for Russians to launder money. Our laws on setting up limited companies are farcically lenient and it's too easy to set up, wash a few million roubles and close down again. That and the property mean that London is basically Moscow-to-the-west with the added bonus that it's easier to kill dissenters in the UK.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 14, 2018, 09:33 AM
 
May expelling dilplomats in retaliation.
     
subego
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Mar 14, 2018, 03:16 PM
 
     
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Mar 14, 2018, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by the final dakar View Post
may expelling diplomats spies in retaliation.
ftfy!

Oaw
     
Doc HM
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Mar 15, 2018, 05:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
May expelling dilplomats in retaliation.
yay! That'll show them. No real sanctions as we don't have the economic balls or actually trust our allies to back us up on this.

23 low level "diplomatic staff" plus the royals don't go to the World Cup!

23 UK diplomats will be heading home soon as well I guess as the Russians always tit for tat these things.

Nothing to make London less financially attractive.
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Mar 16, 2018, 06:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Looks like the police have for some reason decided that it's unlikely he broke his own neck.
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Mar 16, 2018, 10:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Nothing to make London less financially attractive.
To me that'll be the litmus test of when the UK starts playing hardball: if they freeze or seize assets of Russian oligarchs (including nice apartments in the city center and billions in other investments), then we know Theresa May means business.

But I think for that, we should wait for more information: who was concretely involved? Are there some people more deserving of having their assets frozen? I also wouldn't mind collaboration between the UK and other countries here: Mueller has linked a particular oligarch to election meddling efforts. This guy's name should be at the top of the list.
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Doc HM
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Mar 19, 2018, 04:45 AM
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8261871.html

Firstly, no-one would pay £180K to play Boris at tennis. Which raises the question, what do they think they are paying for?

I feel that the Russians may be actually confused by the whole situation, a confusion born of a fundamental misunderstanding of what you can and can't buy in a western democracy.

Having donated over £3milion to the conservatives over the last few years I suspect the Russians really can't understand why they now don't get what they have effectively paid for, the ability to do whatever they like in the UK whenever they want to.

it's understandable since Theresa May personally shut down the Litvinenko enquiry, but I think they fundamentally misunderstand the limits imposed by a democratic system and can't see why the government was unable to keep a lid on this latest event for them.
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