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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Order or wait?

View Poll Results: Should I order a MacBook or wait for Merom?
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Yeah, just order one Core Duo is sweet 38 votes (55.07%)
Chill out, C2D is worth waiting for 31 votes (44.93%)
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll
Order or wait?
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drnkn_stylz
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Sep 26, 2006, 06:14 PM
 
I need a new laptop. I am in University and it sucks not having a notebook anymore (sold the iBook to a friend).

I was originally going to order a 1.83gHz base model with Superdrive upgrade. Then eventually max the RAM and order a 7200rpm Seagate HDD.

This was before I read about the Merom upgrade rumors. I have been waiting it out for the updates, Photokina let us down, and now there is no real news except for that they might be released in a couple of weeks (according to MOSR).

I don't want to order a Core Duo when a couple weeks later I could have had a Core 2 Duo for the same price, however, I can't wait on Apple ridiculous business tactics for much longer, as I need a notebook for school.

I am almost at the point of saying to hell with C2D I need a computer! Would that be a silly thing to say?

Please vote and let me know your opinions on Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo are. Thanks!
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megatronbomb
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Sep 26, 2006, 06:24 PM
 
I was in the same situation you are... I had sold my iBook G4 and needed a laptop. I got a 1.83ghz MacBook a few days ago and am really happy with it. I don't particularly care about the Duo 2... but if the new version were to have an updated graphics and speaker option then I would be a little sad about that.

If you need a laptop for school, just get one.
     
kennedy
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Sep 26, 2006, 07:40 PM
 
I wouldn't worry about C2D... Core Duo is sweet.

I'd just worry about the RSS problems... I'd wait until Apple has those figured out... unless you're okay without the sleep function (shutting down whenever you go somewhere).
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drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Sep 26, 2006, 09:22 PM
 
I thought all the bugs have been worked out by now?
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soonlar
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Sep 26, 2006, 10:06 PM
 
I am in the same boat. I recently sold my iBook G4 1.33 to get a new Macbook, I like the black macbook. I was ready to buy then I heard the rumor about the c2d coming soon. I have decided to wait just a bit longer as I think (and hope) it will be in the next 2-4 weeks.

I also grow restless with the Apple marketing shinanigans. Almost every other big laptop company has their c2d laptops out now. Apple needs to lead the charge not stumble and wane listlessly.

I thought things would change for Apple once they went to intel chips as I knew this would be much more competetive for them. It seemed like they were begining to show that they would be one of the leaders. I guess they have kind of done this with the Mac Pro and now iMac being c2d, but where are the updated c2d laptops??!!?

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Brien
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Sep 26, 2006, 11:37 PM
 
I bought mine early August, and never looked back.

(Go for it.)

The best advice, though:
If you need it now, buy it. If you can wait, wait.

Even if you wait, you could buy a Rev. A MacBook and use the money saved on RAM, etc.
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Sep 27, 2006, 12:44 AM
 
Hmm, well what advantages am I going to have with Core 2 Duo over Core Duo? Does anything think there will be any graphics card updates?
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brutal
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Sep 28, 2006, 07:04 AM
 
Well, I gave in and ordered me a Macbook 2Ghz/1GB/100GB just now.

     
houstonmacbro
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Sep 28, 2006, 07:23 AM
 
good man!
     
iMAColata
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Sep 28, 2006, 07:32 AM
 
I doubt 64-bit will provide any substantial benefits short term. Especially on a laptop. The C2D is slightly faster and more aggressive on power saving. Some tested a c2d vs a cd and found a 9 minute battery saving over 4 hours.

I think you won't seea mac book refresh untill decemberween. Apple still have a lot of rebates and back to school / student things running in many countries. I think it is safe to say that those must be finished first.
     
pyrite
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Sep 28, 2006, 09:08 PM
 
wait. merom's performance gain is not enormous, but it's still worth another 1-2 weeks of waiting time. i've been waiting for 9 months for the right macbook (still on a 12" powerbook 1.5), waiting time is not such a bad thing when software is still being ported for intel. i think it's gonna be another 6-9 months before intel owners REALLY get their money's worth. rosetta is still active for most ppl in the background even if all their 'main' apps are universal, smaller apps and drivers etc can annoyingly hog performance/ram. up to you, but i'm waiting!
you also never know what surprises they've got for the new macbook, if we're really lucky maybe 1gb ram standard (unlikely) or a superdrive on the basic model, or something completely new
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kiskiboy
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Sep 28, 2006, 11:59 PM
 
I too am waiting on the next gen MacBook. I am far from a power user and probably don't need anything better than what is available now, but my current 1ghz TI book should last me a few more weeks, even though I am having lots of problems with it lately.

I am hoping the Black MacBook gets the backlit keyboard.
     
brokenjago
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Sep 29, 2006, 12:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by kiskiboy
I am hoping the Black MacBook gets the backlit keyboard.
Not happening.
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drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Sep 29, 2006, 01:12 AM
 
I believe Dell is shipping C2D on Oct. 6th, and thats about the same time it is rumored Apple is going to release Merom notebooks (MOSR). So I am going to wait until then. After that is it just getting stupid. If Apple doesn't release Merom on time with every other company, they will suffer for sure. Apple is playing with the big boys of Intel now, they can not slack it like they have in the past.
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iMAColata
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Sep 29, 2006, 04:02 AM
 
Apples back to school iPod + Mac offer expires on october 7th or so I think. It would be smart of them to wait with a mb mbp refresh untill AFTER that. So you are probably right.

EDIT

I forgot to ask: if you are an uni student, can you still apply for the B2S iPod rebate? It has different run times in different countries. IF you still can get a massively discounted iPod, I think you should go with that. Ipod+macbook = way more enjoyment than MacBook moron edition.
( Last edited by iMAColata; Sep 29, 2006 at 08:23 AM. )
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Sep 29, 2006, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by iMAColata
Apples back to school iPod + Mac offer expires on october 7th or so I think. It would be smart of them to wait with a mb mbp refresh untill AFTER that. So you are probably right.

EDIT

I forgot to ask: if you are an uni student, can you still apply for the B2S iPod rebate? It has different run times in different countries. IF you still can get a massively discounted iPod, I think you should go with that. Ipod+macbook = way more enjoyment than MacBook moron edition.

I already have an iPod, so if I did get a free one with buying a MB, I would just sell it and pay off a portion of the MB. I really want to wait for C2D for 64bit. I may not take advantage of the 64bitness fully, but the memory allocations I would for sure. 2gb of RAM is almost standard now, and I plan to use programs such as Abobe PS, Macromedia Flash, Dreamwaver etc. I am also majoring in Comp. Sci. so I really want to have something that can handle 64bit and Leopard and Vista.

I just checked the Apple Canada store, and the B2S promo ended on Sept. 16th for us.
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cruisereg
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Oct 1, 2006, 09:48 AM
 
I don't think we'll see the Core 2 Duo in the Macbook anytime soon. Now with even the lowest end iMac with the Core 2 Duo, I expect the next refresh of the Macbook Pro to be Core 2 Duo without the slightest doubt. This is precisely why we won't see it in the Macbook soon, the CPUs will be another differentiator between the Pro and non-Pro. Today, people like me (those who could care less about the dedicated video memory, have jumbo LCDs at home and work and don't need Expresscard) buy the Macbook because the performance between the Pro and non-Pro is more or less the same. The Macbook is such the sweet spot!
     
Elektrix
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Oct 1, 2006, 10:38 AM
 
The more I think about it, the more I do sort of suspect that Apple has something more in store than just sticking C2D chips in the existing MBP. It can't be a supply issue (or else Apple wouldn't be using C2D chips in the iMac).

It seems like that is the plausible difference at this point between what Apple is doing and what PC manufacturers have been doing. Most everyone else who now has C2D chips on the market has basically just stuck them in existing laptops..... i.e. the Sony SZ2xx became the Sony SZ3xx, with the only major difference being the upgraded CPUs. Same with Dell, Toshiba, HP, etc.

I would not be surprised of course of the eventual MBP update is just a C2D and nothing else, but it does seem like a possible explanation for them not being made available yet is that Apple is doing more than just a CPU upgrade (remember, they did the boost from 1.83/2.0 Core Duo to 2.0/2.16 Core Duo almost as soon as those chips were available).
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 2, 2006, 11:37 AM
 
I bet when the updates come they will include GPU upgrades, and probably more stock RAM. 64mb graphics cards are pretty weak for a brand new notebook. 128mb would be much better suited, since 512mb is available and some games take advantage of all of that.
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Elektrix
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Oct 2, 2006, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by drnkn_stylz
I bet when the updates come they will include GPU upgrades, and probably more stock RAM. 64mb graphics cards are pretty weak for a brand new notebook. 128mb would be much better suited, since 512mb is available and some games take advantage of all of that.
I highly doubt Apple's going to switch from integrated to dedicated graphics for the MacBook. As a general point, I can't think of too many other laptops in that same $1100-1300 price range which feature dedicated graphics cards; Intel GMA950 seems a lot more common.

Even Sony's new MacBook competitor, the C series, costs around $1349 and features Intel GMA950 graphics, and only the high-end black model is available with a GeForce 7400 card, and that model costs a couple hundred more apparently.
     
cruisereg
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Oct 2, 2006, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Elektrix
I highly doubt Apple's going to switch from integrated to dedicated graphics for the MacBook. As a general point, I can't think of too many other laptops in that same $1100-1300 price range which feature dedicated graphics cards; Intel GMA950 seems a lot more common.
I think the original poster was talking MBP not MB. I can definitely see those types of updates to the MBP, in fact I think Apple has this type of roadmap queued before the initial models are released. It implies freshening and/or added value when it only has a very small impact on Apple's margins.

But your point is a solid one, the MB should be integrated graphics for at least another year. It will be interesting to see what happens with the whole AMD/ATI and the implied Intel/Nvidia alliance. Nvidia has some very interesting hybrid RAM dedicated video card solutions. That fits well with where I'm guessing the MB will go.
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Elektrix
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Oct 2, 2006, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by cruisereg
I think the original poster was talking MBP not MB. I can definitely see those types of updates to the MBP, in fact I think Apple has this type of roadmap queued before the initial models are released. It implies freshening and/or added value when it only has a very small impact on Apple's margins.

But your point is a solid one, the MB should be integrated graphics for at least another year. It will be interesting to see what happens with the whole AMD/ATI and the implied Intel/Nvidia alliance. Nvidia has some very interesting hybrid RAM dedicated video card solutions. That fits well with where I'm guessing the MB will go.
Ahh, I see. That makes more sense.

I'm not totally sure what Apple could upgrade the GPU in the MBP with though that would make much of a difference. As it is, the X1600 in the current MBP is underclocked a significant amount. It would practically be like a GPU upgrade if Apple could find out a way to not have to underclock it so much (which I can't imagine will happen given the heat issues there already are).

From what I've read, the new X1700 isn't really a significant performance improvement over the X1600, so if I were someone on the fence waiting for a GPU upgrade, I wouldn't use that as the basis for it.

Conceivably Apple could switch to a GeForce 7600 or the newer 7700 though, but performance apparently isn't all that different, and Apple still would need to underclock it anyway.
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 3, 2006, 01:33 PM
 
Okay so it's Tuesday, and no C2D notebooks AGAIN. I think I might just order a MB this week. I need some info though. If a C2D notebook is released within 2 weeks (14 days) of my purchase, I can return the MacBook and get a new one right? Is there a re-stocking fee on opened boxes? What if I can seal everything back to normal? Haha. Anyways, some more info on Apple's return policy would be nice.
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Elektrix
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Oct 3, 2006, 02:03 PM
 
Pretty sure that Apple charges a restocking fee (I think 10%) on returned items unless it is defective, as long as it's open. I think they will charge you this even if you seal everything back up (technically speaking, it would be kind of dishonest to try and seal everything up and pretend it was never opened).
     
brokenjago
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Oct 3, 2006, 05:22 PM
 
They will change out your Macbook for a new model within 10 days without any fee.
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drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 4, 2006, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Elektrix
(technically speaking, it would be kind of dishonest to try and seal everything up and pretend it was never opened).
I wasn't being completely serious in saying that, but I know what you mean.

I am hoping Oct. 10th (next tuesday) brings on the updates. I know of people who already have C2D notebooks, and lots of people are shipping out their units. However, it could be the next week after that, and so on. It's never ending, but I think I might as well wait it out now, where as if it was still the beginning of September, ordering a MB would of been fine.
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clockworkwar
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Oct 4, 2006, 11:40 AM
 
I think the MBP will be updated very soon, but the macbook will be a little longer to update. But who knows knowing apple (of course i bet even Steve Jobs doesnt know what the hell goes on in most of the company).
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 4, 2006, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by clockworkwar
I think the MBP will be updated very soon, but the macbook will be a little longer to update. But who knows knowing apple (of course i bet even Steve Jobs doesnt know what the hell goes on in most of the company).

Hahaha. Well hopefully the MB gets an update as well. Either way, by me not ordering yet, I don't have to worry about stuff such as the overheating, RSS etc.

If Apple doesn't update by next week I will be very surprised. They will be the last ones to do update the notebook line.


Sort of an OT question, but how well will Leopard and Vista run on a Core Duo, being that it's 32bit, and those OS's are made to be 64bit?
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Elektrix
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Oct 4, 2006, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by drnkn_stylz
Hahaha. Well hopefully the MB gets an update as well. Either way, by me not ordering yet, I don't have to worry about stuff such as the overheating, RSS etc.

If Apple doesn't update by next week I will be very surprised. They will be the last ones to do update the notebook line.


Sort of an OT question, but how well will Leopard and Vista run on a Core Duo, being that it's 32bit, and those OS's are made to be 64bit?
They'll still run fine, plenty of people are still running 32-bit CPU's, and both Leopard and Vista will be designed to perform well on them.
     
clockworkwar
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Oct 4, 2006, 05:01 PM
 
Yep I think Apple will release a Core Duo 2 Macbook very soon, maybe sorting out a few heat and software issues. And also adding some more USB ports to the amazing laptop.

Im going out to the apple store at the weekend to check one of the current models out, and then im going to wait until the 2nd generation to go buy one.
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 4, 2006, 08:03 PM
 
Having the second gen. will make it easier on us not having to worry about bugs and such since they'll be worked out.

Next week seems a decade away...
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clockworkwar
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Oct 5, 2006, 11:04 AM
 
It could be as late as November before they launch them. But i would have thought you will atleast see the MBP updated soon, and then you know the macbooks not far behind.
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 5, 2006, 12:58 PM
 
It would be pretty stupid if Apple took until November to update at least the MBP. If people want C2D they can get it from Sony or Dell already. Not everyone is going to just wait around forever.
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Elektrix
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Oct 5, 2006, 01:26 PM
 
For what it's worth, I wonder how much GENERAL consumer demand there is for Core 2 Duo over Core Duo. Obviously the people here seem to be obsessed with it, but thinking about the typical computer buyer who I see shopping at the local Apple Store or CompUSA or whatever, most of them seem barely aware of even the existence of Core Duo, much less the difference between Core Duo and Core 2 Duo.
     
clockworkwar
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Oct 5, 2006, 01:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by drnkn_stylz
It would be pretty stupid if Apple took until November to update at least the MBP. If people want C2D they can get it from Sony or Dell already. Not everyone is going to just wait around forever.
I kind of said in a confusing way that the MBP will be launched probably this month, and then the Macbooks wont be far behind.
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 5, 2006, 01:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Elektrix
For what it's worth, I wonder how much GENERAL consumer demand there is for Core 2 Duo over Core Duo. Obviously the people here seem to be obsessed with it, but thinking about the typical computer buyer who I see shopping at the local Apple Store or CompUSA or whatever, most of them seem barely aware of even the existence of Core Duo, much less the difference between Core Duo and Core 2 Duo.
I see what you're saying. Most people here know what the difference is and why it's worth waiting. Not to mention I don't think C2D will be the only upgrade we will see with the launch of Rev.2. For those oblivious to the differences, I think that when smoeone is buying a computer, and they see Core Duo, then Core 2 Duo, they'll automatically think C2D is better. Then once finding out that they're the same price, the obvious choice would be C2D.
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Berberman
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Oct 5, 2006, 03:48 PM
 
True. I know what the difference is between c2D and Core duo but the reason why i'm waiting is not the extra features i would get with C2D but more the fact that the C2D macbook will be a rev2, fixing all the bugs, RSS, mushy mouse button or discoloration potential problems.
Hopefully it comes out some times next week or the week after that. I'm giving it till the end of October, otherwise i'm going for a C2D sony Vaio FE series. Comon apple, bring'em out already!
( Last edited by Berberman; Oct 5, 2006 at 06:38 PM. )
     
Elektrix
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Oct 5, 2006, 04:01 PM
 
Berberman, have you ever been on a Sony forum? Sony laptops have their own share of problems, with the only difference being that Sony at least seems to be much harder to work with than Apple when it comes to remedying them.
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 6, 2006, 01:45 AM
 
My bet is October 10th. If not, screw it I'm ordering. I can't wait forever for Apple to get with the damn program.
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Berberman
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Oct 6, 2006, 05:20 AM
 
Elektrix, although my choice tends to go towards the macbook mainly for the OS, the design of the sony FE looks pretty damn fine. I did go by your comment and went on reading threads on sony vaio forums - I can tell you there's not as many complaints of vaio deffects as there is macbook ones - not even close! I'm a musician so the macbook will be much user friedly to me than the pc (which i am currently a user of, and have always been), but my decision to switch is really becoming harder and harder to take as time goes by and no rev2 macbook comes out.... Let's hope for tuesday!
     
nabilanwar
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Oct 6, 2006, 06:26 AM
 
I too am waiting for the Rev.2 Macbook. I want the black one. But all industry rumors point to a MBP update, not a MB update. That kinda scares me, but we shall see what happens.
I have an iMacG5 rite now, so i'm not in the same boat as the original poster. I plan to sell the iMac after the Macbook purchase though. Anyone want an iMac?
     
brutal
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Oct 6, 2006, 07:49 AM
 
October 10th is actually the ETA for my Macbook

     
Elektrix
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Oct 6, 2006, 08:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Berberman
Elektrix, although my choice tends to go towards the macbook mainly for the OS, the design of the sony FE looks pretty damn fine. I did go by your comment and went on reading threads on sony vaio forums - I can tell you there's not as many complaints of vaio deffects as there is macbook ones - not even close! I'm a musician so the macbook will be much user friedly to me than the pc (which i am currently a user of, and have always been), but my decision to switch is really becoming harder and harder to take as time goes by and no rev2 macbook comes out.... Let's hope for tuesday!
Well, if you want to roll the dice with Sony, good luck. The main point I'd highlight again is that Sony's laptops HAVE had defects. I think you might not see as many complaints because Sony owners have learned to give up and accept them and/or try and fix them themselves. One of the biggest things I've noticed is that MacBook owners seem to be much more demanding when it comes to perfection; Sony, HP, Toshiba, etc. owners seem much more resigned to dealing with the various defects, etc. on those laptops.

And again, the big thing here is that Sony customer support is terrible, and getting them to actually get many of these defects fixed is nigh impossible. It is really night and day compared to Apple.

Just to explain, I am speaking from personal experience here; I owned a Sony Vaio S360 for about a year, which gave me plenty of opportunity to see what things were like in the Sony Vaio community, and what it was like dealing with Sony.

Again, I wouldn't go so much by the number of posts. The many number of things MacBook owners complain about are things that Sony Vaio owners long since seem to have just put up with. I can't quite explain this, but it does seem to happen.

Who knows, you might get lucky and get an FE without any problems and never have to deal with Sony. You will of course still have to deal with all the other problems that come from being a Sony owner (buggy software, difficult to find drivers, etc.).

All I can say again is that if you insist on moving to a PC notebook, I'd HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend looking at another manufacturer like Asus or Acer or maybe even HP. Sony would be at the bottom of laptop manufacturers I'd recommend, along with Toshiba.

-Elektrix
     
Berberman
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Oct 6, 2006, 08:11 AM
 
ok so I'm ready to settle for the current Core duo Macbook WITHOUT the glitches.

riiiight...so....if the macbooks don't get Merom, how would we know when they got their multiple quality issues fixed up?
     
Peter
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Oct 6, 2006, 08:13 AM
 
order.
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
Berberman
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Oct 6, 2006, 08:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Peter
order.
I'm not in the US at the moment, no apple center and no chance to get anything done to it for that matter. So i can't just 'order' and deal with the potential issues later. Any issue with my purchase would just be a total disaster.
     
Elektrix
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Oct 6, 2006, 08:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Berberman
ok so I'm ready to settle for the current Core duo Macbook WITHOUT the glitches.

riiiight...so....if the macbooks don't get Merom, how would we know when they got their multiple quality issues fixed up?
You know, it's not like Apple is still shipping MacBooks with the same quality issues as Day 1. Many of those issues have been resolved within the current MacBook product line. And if you do still get an issue, Apple will probably fix it for you.

-Elektrix
     
drnkn_stylz  (op)
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Oct 6, 2006, 11:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Peter
order.
Elaborate?




I was in an authorized Apple dealer store (we don't have Apple Stores in Canada for some reason...). They don't have any Apple notebooks, can cannot order any in. The sales manager told me they could put in an order for 30 Macbooks, and only end up getting sent 2! I want to order through a store here because I can order a custom setup (like a base with superdrive) whereas the Apple website will not let me do that.

So I think them not being able to order generally larger lots is a sign of updates soon, even to the MB line.
..13" MacBook Pro | 2.53gHz | 4gb RAM | 320gb Seagate Momentus XT | OSX.6.6.. // iPhone 4 32gb
     
clockworkwar
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Oct 6, 2006, 04:10 PM
 
     
nabilanwar
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Oct 6, 2006, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by clockworkwar
Ye i saw that. Made me smile too, but the possibility of no Macbook update freaks me out. I cant afford a MBP, nor do i want one.
     
 
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