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Millennium · Oct 17, 2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Point is there is NO REASON to cripple the cube version other than to make it less appealing so you buy a Wii.

Actually, that depends on what they're doing with the system. While the Wii's graphics and processor hardware are not as much of an upgrade over the GameCube's as, for example, the PS3's is over the PS2, they are upgraded. Depending on how much Twilight Princess pushes the Wii hardware, it might not be possible to get widescreen working on the GameCube without serious slowdown.

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Actually, that depends on what they're doing with the system. While the Wii's graphics and processor hardware are not as much of an upgrade over the GameCube's as, for example, the PS3's is over the PS2, they are upgraded. Depending on how much Twilight Princess pushes the Wii hardware, it might not be possible to get widescreen working on the GameCube without serious slowdown.

Exactly what I was thinking, but I didn't bother saying it. Wouldn't matter to SWG anyway.

Dark Helmet · Oct 17, 2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Actually, that depends on what they're doing with the system. While the Wii's graphics and processor hardware are not as much of an upgrade over the GameCube's as, for example, the PS3's is over the PS2, they are upgraded. Depending on how much Twilight Princess pushes the Wii hardware, it might not be possible to get widescreen working on the GameCube without serious slowdown.

That is bullshit. It started out as a cube title and adding widescreen is so effortless and doesn't each much resources. Adding 480p is another. I posted a link to developers commenting on how nintendo rarly bothers to add widescreen even thought they can easily.

Also if the hugely underpowered PS2 can do 1080i in widescreen then there is no reason in hell the Cube can't do widescreen at 480i.

The only reason is to push you to the Wii one. Heck in Japan they are only selling the Cube zelda online and not in stores!

And in terms of it "pushing the Wii hardware", hands on experiences that I linked to mentioned how jaggy it looks and doesn't look better than what a cube can put out. So you better hope you are wrong about pushing the limits of the wii.

""To begin, let us all say hello to the "Jaggies" of previous consoles. That’s right, while Nintendo claims the Wii is at least twice as powerful as the Gamecube, I was finding it hard to see the upgrade. Zelda didn't look like an upgrade at all."

Millennium · Oct 17, 2006, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Are you telling me that it took a year to discover how to make the gameboy Advance have backlighting?

It probably did take a year to figure out a way to make it have backlighting without sucking the batteries dry in 2-3 hours. Battery life has always been one of Nintendo's top priorities when designing handheld systems, and this is a large part of why they've been able to beat competition like the Game Gear, TurboExpress, WonderSwan, Lynx, NGPC, and PSP.

Why is battery life so important to a portable system? This one is fairly simple. No matter how good your graphics are, no matter how big your screen is, no matter how much space your media can hold, and no matter how well you're lit, if the batteries are dead then your system is an expensive brick. Gunpei Yokoi, the designer of the original Game Boy, understood that, and Nintendo learned his lesson well.

Dakar² · Oct 17, 2006, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

It probably did take a year to figure out a way to make it have backlighting without sucking the batteries dry in 2-3 hours.

Quoted for truth.

Dark Helmet · Oct 17, 2006, 11:42 AM

So goMac and Millennium. You guys want to comment on how "you're not actually pointing at the screen your pointing at the sensor bar" is actually a good thing you you just want to pretend people who try the system never said that?

Are jaggies also a plus on a system that is twice as powerful as the cube 4x as powerful as the PS2 but can't smooth or do 1080i?

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That is bullshit. It started out as a cube title and adding widescreen is so effortless and doesn't each much resources. Adding 480p is another. I posted a link to developers commenting on how nintendo rarly bothers to add widescreen even thought they can easily.

480p is higher resolution than SD.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Also if the hugely underpowered PS2 can do 1080i in widescreen then there is no reason in hell the Cube can't do widescreen at 480i.

The PS2 would not be able to run Twilight Princess probably even at SD.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The only reason is to push you to the Wii one. Heck in Japan they are only selling the Cube zelda online and not in stores!

I'm sorry your feelings are hurt that TP is primarily a Wii game now. Nintendo lied and broke your heart. Maybe you can write it a note during 4th period.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

And in terms of it "pushing the Wii hardware", hands on experiences that I linked to mentioned how jaggy it looks and doesn't look better than what a cube can put out. So you better hope you are wrong about pushing the limits of the wii.

It's still using the same graphics engine as the Gamecube version. Gee. Color me surprised when it looks exactly the same as a Gamecube game.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

""To begin, let us all say hello to the "Jaggies" of previous consoles. That’s right, while Nintendo claims the Wii is at least twice as powerful as the Gamecube, I was finding it hard to see the upgrade. Zelda didn't look like an upgrade at all."

Because it's using a Gamecube game engine. I don't get why this is so hard for people to get through their thick heads.

Millennium · Oct 17, 2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That is bullshit. It started out as a cube title...

Certainly it did.

...and adding widescreen is so effortless and doesn't each much resources...

Um, what are you smoking? Increasing the screen area affects all sorts of things. In terms of graphics -by far the most computation-intensive part of any modern game- you actually get hit twice. The blitter suffers dramatically, since increased screen area means more data to process, and the 3D renderer also tends to get hit, since an increased viewing area normally means more polygons onscreen. You can decrease the polygon count of the models to compensate for the increased viewing area and negate the hit on the 3D renderer, but there's no way around the blitter, and that hits you on every single frame.

Adding 480p is another. I posted a link to developers commenting on how nintendo rarly bothers to add widescreen even thought they can easily.

The code to do this is not difficult; that much is true, and this is probably what the developers were referring to. The problem isn't software; it's hardware.

Also if the hugely underpowered PS2 can do 1080i in widescreen then there is no reason in hell the Cube can't do widescreen at 480i.

I want screenshots, and I want them from something that doesn't have "Katamari" in the title.

Dark Helmet · Oct 17, 2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

480p is higher resolution than SD.

What did that answer? I said adding widescreen at 480i. Heck the N64 did it, but wait... Zelda that was developed for a cube is now pushing the Wii hardware to the limit on first gen games and people who seen it says it looks no better than anything cube and 480p actually makes it look worse.

So somehow the N64 did 480i widescreen.
The PS2 does 1080i Widescreen.
The Cube does 480p widescreen on some games.
And now the Cube can't do 480i widescreen.
The Cube version comes out 2 weeks after the wii one.
The Cube version is only sold online in Japan.

If you want to delude yourselves into thinking that is anything but marketing go ahead. Nintendo loves suckers.

starman · Oct 17, 2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

480p is higher resolution than SD.

huh?

Dark Helmet · Oct 17, 2006, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

t screenshots, and I want them from something that doesn't have "Katamari" in the title.

Screenshots of what? 1080i on a PS2? It looks astounding and the framerate is perfect.

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by starman

huh?

Yep.

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Screenshots of what? 1080i on a PS2? It looks astounding and the framerate is perfect.

Great. Which game is this that has an engine as elaborate as TP's?

starman · Oct 17, 2006, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Yep.

Explain how SD, which is 720x480, has lower resolution than 480p, which is.....720x480.

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Explain how SD, which is 720x480, has lower resolution than 480p, which is.....720x480.

If they were the same resolution, why would SWG be so upset?

(Hint: 480p isn't 720x480)

starman · Oct 17, 2006, 12:34 PM

Then WHAT IS IT?

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Then WHAT IS IT?

852x480.

Dakar² · Oct 17, 2006, 12:36 PM

nm.

starman · Oct 17, 2006, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

852x480.

Actually, right. It also depends on the media you're using. I've seen 720x480 media.

The point is, on a 4x3 TV with component in that supports progressive mode (which I have, the kids use it) you're not gaining any VERTICAL resolution vs. 480i.

Just sayin'.

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Actually, right. It also depends on the media you're using. I've seen 720x480 media.

The point is, on a 4x3 TV with component in that supports progressive mode (which I have, the kids use it) you're not gaining any VERTICAL resolution vs. 480i.

Just sayin'.

But this isn't what SWG is complaining about. SWG is complaining he's using a 16x9 TV and the Gamecube version isn't going to support 16x9 480p. This takes an increase in CPU power to do because the resolution is higher.

Millennium · Oct 17, 2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Explain how SD, which is 720x480, has lower resolution than 480p, which is.....720x480.

SD is 480i, not 480p. That's why the resolution is lower.

Millennium · Oct 17, 2006, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Screenshots of what? 1080i on a PS2? It looks astounding and the framerate is perfect.

What game are you talking about? Or do you not understand how or why this matters?

starman · Oct 17, 2006, 02:25 PM

Gran Turismo 4 does 1080i on a PS2.

MaxPower2k3 · Oct 17, 2006, 02:25 PM

Gran Turismo 4 looks beautiful at 1080i on the PS2.

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by MaxPower2k3

Gran Turismo 4 looks beautiful at 1080i on the PS2.

It's vertex count or complexity is still nowhere near as high as Zelda.

ort888 · Oct 17, 2006, 02:51 PM

Wait a sec... aren't they repackaging GT4 as GT4 HiDef? If it's aready in 1080i on the PS2, then what's the big deal about the PS3 version? 1080p that only about 1% of PS3 owners will be able to use?

icruise · Oct 17, 2006, 03:13 PM

Come on. GTA has never been CLOSE to 1080i on the PS2. Has it even been in 480p? I don't think so.

In fact, starman (since you have been "spoiled" by all of the hi-def games on the PS2) would you mind listing some of the ones you've played? Or at least, you know, one aside from Gran Turismo 4?

torsoboy · Oct 17, 2006, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Wait a sec... aren't they repackaging GT4 as GT4 HiDef? If it's aready in 1080i on the PS2, then what's the big deal about the PS3 version? 1080p that only about 1% of PS3 owners will be able to use?

Hey, this is a Wii thread... just reminding people.

starman · Oct 17, 2006, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Icruise

Come on. GTA has never been CLOSE to 1080i on the PS2. Has it even been in 480p? I don't think so.

In fact, starman (since you have been "spoiled" by all of the hi-def games on the PS2) would you mind listing some of the ones you've played? Or at least, you know, one aside from Gran Turismo 4?

This is the SECOND time I have to post this.

IGN: Gran Turismo 4 Preview

"It was a last-minute surprise that GT4 not only contained 480p, but also 1080i."

Do you think SWG and I just pulled that out of our ass? I played it in 1080i.

Also, my quote was:

"I think the PS2 and both Xboxes spoiled me"

Again, I didn't say JUST the PS2.

icruise · Oct 17, 2006, 03:32 PM

Sorry, I stupidly read GT4 as GTA4 (Grand Theft Auto), since GTA4 is coming on on the PS3.

But my point about Gran Turismo is that while it's nice that it supports 1080i, using it as an example of how the PS2 can handle HD doesn't make much sense if there's only a handful of games that can do it.

Gamoe · Oct 17, 2006, 04:32 PM

It's nice that we can all discuss the Wii without continually comparing the Wii to other systems and badmouthing one system/company or the other. It's quite nice.

Anyway, whose pre-ordered? You were looking to do so, right, starman? I have a friend who did, but honestly I think the systems will be available in great quantity just about everywhere, so I didn't bother. I'd rather go into a store and get it on launch day or the day after.

icruise · Oct 17, 2006, 05:05 PM

I was able to get a preorder from Amazon when they had the preorder page up for a little while a couple of weeks ago. I'm thinking that a preorder may not be necessary, but I prefer to shop online anyway, and you never know. I've read a number of reports about there being more people lined up for Wiis than for PS3s (of course, the price may have something to with that).

And just for the record, I am no one's "fanboy." I have every current video game system and appreciate them all for what they do well. I will get a PS3 when I can get it without paying more than retail price, and without a bunch of things that I don't want bundled with it.

Millennium · Oct 17, 2006, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

It's nice that we can all discuss the Wii without continually comparing the Wii to other systems and badmouthing one system/company or the other. It's quite nice.

It would be nicer if everyone understood that graphics aren't everything.

Anyway, whose pre-ordered? You were looking to do so, right, starman? I have a friend who did, but honestly I think the systems will be available in great quantity just about everywhere, so I didn't bother. I'd rather go into a store and get it on launch day or the day after.

I preordered, in part because I won't actually be able to get it on launch day: I'll be at a convention. I intend to take full and ruthless advantage of the store's policy on holding preorders for 48 hours, since I won't be able to pick it up until nearly the end of that time, and by then I expect the first shipment to be gone.

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 07:23 PM

I haven't pre-ordered yet, although I don't want to risk it on launch day seeing as the demand for the Wii seems to be pretty high.

zro · Oct 17, 2006, 10:29 PM

I'm still hoping someone else (T'R'U maybe) will offer a preorder on a day I don't have to work. If worse comes to worse, at least it comes out on a Sunday.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Oct 17, 2006, 11:37 PM

Remember a month ago when GoMac said "Wii Metriod has already been proclaimed the golden Standard of FPS"

"However, although several big Wii games fall into the first-person arena, none of them have nailed the control scheme. Call of Duty 3, Far Cry, Red Steel and Metroid Prime 3 all forego a fixed reticule setup in favor of a small bounding box. When gamers aim and their reticule leaves the invisible box, the screen begins to turn. This control method is hardly ideal for fast-paced first-person shooters and therefore the promise the Wii remote opens up for the genre remains largely untapped. That noted, Retro Studios' latest revision of Metroid Prime 3 has made significant advancements in maneuverability and we look forward to future refinements."

And my comments about Audio are matched by IGN:

"Nintendo, we can forgive your decision to forego participating in the "high-definition era," which will at least this generation belong to Microsoft and Sony. But seriously, PlayStation 2 had an audio optical out six years ago. Six long years ago! Why doesn't Wii at least include this hardware upgrade? It's not as if you can play the "nobody wants it or needs it yet" card. Everybody is already using it. We suspect that Wii is without an optical out because the console was built to fall in line with the architecture of GameCube, which supported analog audio and Dolby Pro Logic II. That being true, there's really no legitimate excuse."

IGN: Nintendo Wii Wins and Losses

goMac · Oct 17, 2006, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Remember a month ago when GoMac said "Wii Metriod has already been proclaimed the golden Standard of FPS"

"However, although several big Wii games fall into the first-person arena, none of them have nailed the control scheme. Call of Duty 3, Far Cry, Red Steel and Metroid Prime 3 all forego a fixed reticule setup in favor of a small bounding box. When gamers aim and their reticule leaves the invisible box, the screen begins to turn. This control method is hardly ideal for fast-paced first-person shooters and therefore the promise the Wii remote opens up for the genre remains largely untapped. That noted, Retro Studios' latest revision of Metroid Prime 3 has made significant advancements in maneuverability and we look forward to future refinements."

Funny.

"Retro Studios has become the first developer to prove the potential of the Wii-mote with first-person titles. Corruption was sometimes clumsily controlled at E3 2006, but thanks to a new control method designed specifically for pros, that's no longer the case."

"We started up a new level where heroine Samus Aran explores a vast space station and immediately switched to expert mode. We're happy to report that it simulates the accuracy of PC first-person shooters almost perfectly, and we found ourselves soaring through levels, zipping around corners, pulling quick turns and zapping down enemies with pinpoint precision within seconds. Simply put, Retro has pretty much nailed it - and it makes the wait to 2007 for the game that much more difficult. We're not kidding when we write that Prime 3 feels like a brand new game with this control."

IGN.com: Games, Cheats, Movies and More

Gee. Who possibly could have said such a nice thing so contrary to what IGN said?

starman · Oct 18, 2006, 12:20 AM

I SERIOUSLY doubt "pinpoint precision".

starman · Oct 18, 2006, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

It's nice that we can all discuss the Wii without continually comparing the Wii to other systems and badmouthing one system/company or the other. It's quite nice.

Anyway, whose pre-ordered? You were looking to do so, right, starman? I have a friend who did, but honestly I think the systems will be available in great quantity just about everywhere, so I didn't bother. I'd rather go into a store and get it on launch day or the day after.

They were all sold out

I'm friends with the manager who said he'd give me a heads up when shipments come in, so I'll have one before Christmas.

zro · Oct 18, 2006, 12:24 AM

If the Wii doesn't meet your requirements in a console the solution is simple: Avoid it. Bitching about it over and over and over won't change anything.

Gamoe · Oct 18, 2006, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by starman

They were all sold out

I'm friends with the manager who said he'd give me a heads up when shipments come in, so I'll have one before Christmas.

Why just "before Christmas"? They should be out in stores at launch. Even if supplies are (unexpectedly) limited on launch, there's plenty of time to get the Wii well before Chirstmas.

starman · Oct 18, 2006, 01:26 AM

Uh, no. My Gamestop is getting 36 on launch. Others are only getting 18. Next shipment is a WEEK later, and every WEEK after that. Don't believe what the press tells you.

Gamoe · Oct 18, 2006, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Uh, no. My Gamestop is getting 36 on launch. Others are only getting 18. Next shipment is a WEEK later, and every WEEK after that. Don't believe what the press tells you.

Well, Gamestops. But don't you think Nintendo will have larger shipments for the likes of Circuit City, Toys R Us, Wal-Mart and other large retailers?

starman · Oct 18, 2006, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Well, Gamestops. But don't you think Nintendo will have larger shipments for the likes of Circuit City, Toys R Us, Wal-Mart and other large retailers?

Gamestop is a rather large chain in my area. They got over 100 Xboxes on launch day. Something does seem a little strange with this. Sure, MAYBE the other retailers will have them but I'm not going to bust my ass over it.

zerostar · Oct 18, 2006, 08:59 AM

I will still wait for the reviews... so perhaps just after christmas when the majority or people have their hands on one. I can say I am very excited for this system.

Optical audio out is a MAJOR bummer, I have a switch-box that quickly switches the audio/video setup for whatever i am using, it will switch between component/s-video just fine but every audio source except my game-cube is optical, I was hoping for this to change :*(

I wonder if there is an adapter box? I know the quality won't be any better but one less thing for me to switch would be nice.

Millennium · Oct 18, 2006, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

It's not as if you can play the "nobody wants it or needs it yet" card. Everybody is already using it.

Figures, please?

zerostar · Oct 18, 2006, 10:50 AM

I can say from experience, I went to best buy to get an optical audio cable and they looked at me like I had 3 heads. I left and went to circuit city and the package had so much dust on it I almost didn't buy it, so I don't think that optical audio is in that much of a demand... No one I know uses it, even the few I know with HD TVs.

I use it because there is an audio sync issue with my tivo and the audio out unless I use optical, plus something like 1% of the shows on DirecTV have dolby audio so thats a plus! haha

Dakar² · Oct 18, 2006, 10:53 AM

Yeah, I went to best buy looking for a toslink adaptor, and after at looking at their selection of just optical cables I knew I was up sh�t creek.

Gamoe · Oct 18, 2006, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Gamestop is a rather large chain in my area. They got over 100 Xboxes on launch day. Something does seem a little strange with this. Sure, MAYBE the other retailers will have them but I'm not going to bust my ass over it.

I think Nintendo is doing this exactly because they don't want most or all of the Wiis to be bought up in pre-orders. Instead they want people to be able to walk into stores and see them the first week. That's my guess anyway.

Originally Posted by zerostar

Optical audio out is a MAJOR bummer

Optical audio is nice, but honestly I don't think it really translates into much better audio quality in real-life. Even the new speakers I got don't use optical audio. It's gaining popularity sure, but it'll still be a while 'till it's common. But really, will you enjoy your audio less till then? No, not really.

Issues I am concerned with: Sensor bar sunlight issue, wireless controller battery-life.

starman · Oct 18, 2006, 06:15 PM

Optical audio is important IF ANYTHING because stereos nowadays have multiple inputs and it's that much easier to hook it up. With analog it could get messy.