[Millennium]

So, recently I've been hearing a lot on the Web about gated communities. Apparently, for some reason or other, they suck. I'm not sure I understand why this is, as very rarely do you ever see a reason why; it seems to be some kind of generally agreed-upon thing. I'm confused. So, in the name of trying to get at least a general idea of where this comes from, I'm putting the question forward here: do gated communities suck, and why?

For the record, I don't live in a gated community. I'm not entirely sure what would qualify (for example, do apartments and townhouses with gates count, or only developments of single-family homes where the entire development is encircled?) but there is no gate of any kind where I live, so I doubt I'd meet any of the definitions out there.

[Kilbey]

Some nicer developments are built close to higher crime areas. As a way to give the possible customers a sense of safety sometimes a gated community is created. I am not sure if they are effective.

The only reason I might think of living in one is keeping out door-to-door solicitors.

[Randman]

A couple of months ago, someone (I think it was in the Atlanta area, driven maybe?) has a thread going about the nightmare of a gated community.

Ok, now I think it was around Christmastime. Anyway, the thread was a good one about the pluses (and many minuses, if memory serves) about gated communities.

Personally, I'm for them except that the denizens keep getting out. Have to give them the

[nonhuman]

As far as I can tell the only real objection to gated communities is that people don't like the idea that others think of themselves as superior and might want to keep the general populace out of their neighborhood. Basically they don't like having it pointed out that they aren't among the elite.

[andi*pandi]

there's also some pretty stringent rules if you get IN a community like that--house color, cars in driveway, type of lawn, flowers planted. There's a stepford mentality.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

there's also some pretty stringent rules if you get IN a community like that--house color, cars in driveway, type of lawn, flowers planted. There's a stepford mentality.

Sure, but that's something the buyer ought to be aware of when they buy, no?
I do hate the notion that some gated communities have power to fine and even sieze the house for noncompliance with such covenants, but that's why I wouldn't buy in such a community.

[Randman]

Story on the wires a few days ago about how a home association sold a woman's $250,000 home without her knowledge because she didn't pay a $450 homeowners' association fee on time.

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

there's also some pretty stringent rules if you get IN a community like that--house color, cars in driveway, type of lawn, flowers planted. There's a stepford mentality.

A lot of non-gated communities have similar laws.

For example, in my small town:
You are not allowed to store an unregistered car outside.
Have more than one "garage" sale a year.
Own an unlicensed dog.
Cannot keep livestock.
Lawn must be shorter than 3".
All home improvements require a permit.
All windows must be unbroken.

And in the historic distric in a lot of New England towns the house color must be proven to be an original shade. And all modifications are not allowed.

This is just a tiny list. Sure gated communities and condo associations are usually stricter, but people agree to the terms when they buy. No one has forced them.

Personally, I don't think I'd ever live in a place with an association fee. If I want a certain law, I'll just appeal to the city council.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

The only reason I might think of living in one is keeping out door-to-door solicitors.

Those still exist? I haven't had a salesperson visit in years.

[zerostar]

The only thing we get is JW's around here

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by AKcrab

Those still exist? I haven't had a salesperson visit in years.

Maybe that has to do wth the fact that you are in ALASKA!!!

Seriously, just this week we had a lawn service and a guy selling candles knock on our door. Our super-gentle, but dangerous sounding, lab scares most of them away without a single word.

[andi*pandi]

nothing against common sense rules (keep the place tidy, no cars on blocks for 6 mos) but some of the rules are insane, as are the people who enforce them. Yes, you don't have to buy into those communities if you don't like the rules... but sometimes the options are limited.

there's also the thing that they don't contribute/participate to the community, buy from local stores, etc.

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

there's also the thing that they don't contribute/participate to the community, buy from local stores, etc.

Please explain this. Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't it depend on the contractor?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Randman

Story on the wires a few days ago about how a home association sold a woman's $250,000 home without her knowledge because she didn't pay a $450 homeowners' association fee on time.

Heh. That sounds like a Phil Hendrie skit. Link?

[demograph68]

X-Files Season 6, episode 13 "Arcadia"
Mulder and Scully pose as a married couple to investigate a series of bizarre happenings in an exclusive, gated community.

Those places just aren't safe I tell ya!

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

there's also the thing that they don't contribute/participate to the community, buy from local stores, etc.

I'm not sure I see the connection between 'gated community' and 'not contributing/participating to the community, buying from local stores, etc.' Could you elaborate?

[Mithras]

The objections are twofold: first, on the larger municipal scale, and second, on the personal level.

On the municipal scale, many gated communities broker deals by which they pay little or no tax to the municipality they're in. Some larger ones have private security forces that effectively replace the police force. Hence they drain resources from the broader community without contributing. America is founded on a blend of individualism and "the general Welfare." Gated communities undermine that.

On the personal level, gated communities represent personal motivations both useless and distasteful. What exactly does one accomplish by living in a gated community? The enforced standards of "no cars on the lawn", "lawns must be kept trim", or "no trucks" andi*pandi referred to? (The "no trucks" one is a real rule in a relative's community). This betrays an obsession with tokens of status.

Or does one achieve greater safety for one's possessions? Possibly, but again this highlights concern for one's property above all other values, for that most essential of choices, where to live. I'm not saying one should have *no* concern for one's property, but the fact is that life outside of a gated community, unless you're in a South American country or something, is not nearly as risky as the residents of such a community seem to think.

Likewise for personal safety. Residents of a gated community may feel they're protecting themselves from a danger of prowlers. Well, (a) this usually comes from an outsized fear of life beyond the gates, and (b) the appropriate way to handle this is to be concerned for the entire community, and pay enough taxes and demand sufficient accountability from one's government to have effective policing.

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

Originally Posted by AKcrab

Those still exist? I haven't had a salesperson visit in years.

Maybe that has to do wth the fact that you are in ALASKA!!!

"at least 3 characters."

[Millennium]

It sounds as though most of the major objections, then, are not with gated communities per se, but with the sorts of homeowners' associations found in such communities and elsewhere. Would this be accurate?

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by Millennium

It sounds as though most of the major objections, then, are not with gated communities per se, but with the sorts of homeowners' associations found in such communities and elsewhere. Would this be accurate?

I don't think so. The visceral reaction to a wall separating someone from his community should not be discounted.

[Millennium]

Yes, but I did say 'most' of the major objections. Nevertheless, your point about the wall brings up an interesting question: would banning such walls violate a person's right to freedom of association? Does that right not include the right to disassociate from a group if one so wishes?

[Oisín]

Only annoying thing with living in the gated community I've lived in was that there was only one entrance, and no matter where you came from (it was a big community), I had to walk all the way down to one end, go through the only gate there was, and go all the way back up to the other end of the community where I lived. They could at least have a gate in each end. But of course, then the guards at the gate wouldn't have had complete control over the area. Oh wait, they didn't have that anyway, they were twelve-year-olds in way too big uniforms, who sat around doing nothing all day.

(Uhh yeah, this isn't really relevant to your discussion, since it wasn't an American gated community, but a Chinese one, and nearly all communities are gated in Chinese cities, but I don't care )

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Yes, but I did say 'most' of the major objections. Nevertheless, your point about the wall brings up an interesting question: would banning such walls violate a person's right to freedom of association? Does that right not include the right to disassociate from a group if one so wishes?

Nobody's talking about banning such communities. Whether they're desirable or positive for either municipalities or individuals is the matter under discussion. And I would hold that they are not, for either.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Mithras

Nobody's talking about banning such communities. Whether they're desirable or positive for either municipalities or individuals is the matter under discussion. And I would hold that they are not, for either.

Obviously some people disagree or they wouldn't exist. I say let people isolate themselves from the real world if they want to.