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Nikon/Canon Users: Make Your Case (Page 2)
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Buckaroo
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Mar 28, 2008, 01:27 AM
 
I grew up on Canon, and have stuck with it ever since.

I always felt with Nikon, you were paying just a little too much for the name.
     
- - e r i k - -
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Mar 28, 2008, 03:33 AM
 
Aren't you paying for the Canon name to an equal extent as well?

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OreoCookie
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Mar 28, 2008, 06:07 AM
 
Yeah, Pentax, Olympus and Sony/Minolta offer a better bang for the buck.
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IceEnclosure
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Mar 28, 2008, 06:50 AM
 
Nikon has better ergonomics, better menu system, and feels much better in MY hands. Canon feels plastic-y or something.

I was in a club tonight with my camera, some guy leans over and "What kind of camera is that?" stumbles from his drunken lips. Seemed obvious to me, with the bright yellow NIKON on my newbie camera strap, but whatever.

"Oh, you should get a Canon" he says.

To each his own, they both take great photos in the right hands. Although the D300 is a bad-ass-mother-punter.
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powerbook867
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Mar 28, 2008, 08:00 AM
 
Ice, with the Rebel's I would agree with you regarding the plastic-y aspect (they are trying to keep costs down) but my 40d (and the 30d before it) feel rock solid..especially with the battery grip.
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Mar 28, 2008, 10:18 AM
 
Yeah, I think I could knock someone's brain in with my 40D -- and I think my biceps are even getting larger. *goes to look at self in nearest mirror*
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paul w
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Mar 28, 2008, 10:33 AM
 
Heavy is definitely a good thing with a dslr. Heavier cameras are sturdier and less prone to movement during lowlight, slow shutterspeed situations.

My KM 7D is a beast, and a dusty road warrior and I love it. However if I upgrade it'll likely be either a fullframe Canon (5D or succesor) or something like a Leica (if they ever get a better sensor).
     
Railroader
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Mar 28, 2008, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Yeah, Pentax, Olympus and Sony/Minolta offer a better bang for the buck.
A friend just bought a new Pentax DSLR. I know he paid about the same as a Canon XTi costs. I own a XTi and for the life of me I could not get the Pentax set up to take the same quality shots as I got from my default settings on my XTi. The defaults for the Pentax were horrific!

Pentax did a good job of making it feel like a Pentax, but I am not happy with the color balance or exposure across the frame.
     
mdc
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Mar 28, 2008, 12:59 PM
 
I grew up using my Dad's Nikon FA and when it was time to buy my own DSLR I could not get past the feel of the Canon cameras. I decided on the D50 and will be upgrading to the D300 later this year.
     
IceEnclosure
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Mar 28, 2008, 06:35 PM
 
sorry guys, I did only mean the Rebel line(feeling plastic-y). Higher end on both brands feel real nice.

can anyone provide me with a link to the video of the guy pouring water and sand and slushee all over his D300 then snappin' away pics like a machine gun? I've seen it before but can't locate it now.
ice
     
design219
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Mar 28, 2008, 08:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by IceEnclosure View Post
video of the guy pouring water and sand and slushee all over his D300 then snappin' away
Oh, I don't think want to see that.
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powerbook867
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Mar 28, 2008, 10:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
A friend just bought a new Pentax DSLR. I know he paid about the same as a Canon XTi costs. I own a XTi and for the life of me I could not get the Pentax set up to take the same quality shots as I got from my default settings on my XTi. The defaults for the Pentax were horrific!

Pentax did a good job of making it feel like a Pentax, but I am not happy with the color balance or exposure across the frame.
actually, the K10d is what I switched to, away from Canon..now back w/ Canon. There is a banding issue if you underexpose shots @ ISO 800 & 1600 (I wasn't going to point out the make/model earlier, but it may save some other folks the pain I have gone through).

Not bashing, lots of people use this body, but a known issue if you peruse any of the major Pentax forums..feature wise, it can't be beat and RAW images exposed correctly look great, but underexposure..not good..
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IceEnclosure
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Mar 28, 2008, 10:28 PM
 
ice
     
haxorjoe
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Mar 28, 2008, 10:38 PM
 
I've only had 2 digital camera before my D40, one was a Canon PowerShot A60 and the other was a Sony CyberShot DSC-W70. After really getting interested in photography, I decided to get a DSLR and my first choice was the Nikon D40. As soon as I saw it I just fell in love with it. The Rebel just felt cheap and light (not in a good way). When I hold my camera, I want it to feel like something, not just some piece of plastic. Right now I have the D40 with the kit, the 55-200mm, and the 50 ƒ1.8 with the SB-600 flash and I think they're all great pieces of equipment.
     
MattJeff
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Apr 10, 2008, 07:06 PM
 
A bit more on your topic, Jawbone I don't know what kind of photos you take but live view Is actually very helpful for focusing on small things. Most of the time your AF will hit it spot on but for things that are bright or too dark try using live view and zooming in on the screen. Manual focus is a bit touchy (and impossible without a tripod) but I dunno maybe its just me but I think its great.

Just thought I would throw that in there =)
     
angelmb
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Jan 25, 2009, 08:42 AM
 
Sorry about the shutter bump but I guess I better keep on this thread instead of starting another Canon/Nikon battle thread since there are something like four (as minimum) over here… Anyhow, my brother has to get a DSLR camera cause he is getting some photography classes at university where he is studying Industrial Design.
I have asked here and there to some friends but truth be told you don't get further than "dude I have a [], get a []", that sort of valuable feedback. I have spotted the options and so far they are (mind you cameras are damn more expensive here in Europe than they are there in USA so don't tell me to go beyond the cameras listed below)

- Canon EOS 40D & 50D
- Nikon D90

To choose one over another would be a futile exercise, sort of having to deal with buy a PC laptop cause they all look the same, black bodies that convey nothing, so I guess I could pick one at random and deal done… Well then, the Nikon 'seems' to be slightly more ergonomic and looks slightly better, silly stuff like the shutter button not being also black… which given the ugliness of the pack is welcome.

So, any advantage when it comes to deal with the Mac?, both are Aperture friendly so I guess that's a tie.
What about lenses?, the lenses that came with the cameras, be it the Nikon or Canon, seem to be a joke made of plastic, is that so?. Anyhow, which one has a better range of third party lenses?, and is there a remarkable price difference between Canon or Nikon there?

Any additional advice is welcome. Thanks.
     
waxcrash
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Jan 25, 2009, 09:58 AM
 
angelmb -

Nikon and Canon users can argue ad nauseam to which is a better system. You can't go wrong with either system.

Regarding ergonomics, it's important what feels most comfortable in your hands. Have your brother go to a local camera shop and hold each camera in his hands and shoot a bunch of photos with each camera. I personally like the Nikon setup better because of the placement of the rear scroll wheel to change the shutter speed. For me it's a lot easier to hold a Nikon with one hand, use the thumb to adjust shutter speed, middle finger to adjust aperture, and index finger to push the shutter. Very convenient when you need to pull of a bunch of quick photos. When you hold a Nikon, your fingers on your right hand naturally fall on shutter speed, aperture, and shutter release. On the Canon the rear scroll wheel is placed lower next to the LCD which can be uncomfortable and feels unnatural some people.

If your brother is going to get into creative flash photography, then Nikon beats Canon.

What's most important is to look at each companies lens lineup. It's not so much what body you are using, it's the glass. Nikon and Canon both make very good lens. What ever system your brother decides, my best advice is to invest in good glass and not worry so much about what body. Instead of getting one of the latest Nikon or Canon bodies, get a year or two older model and with the money saved get some good, fast, glass. You can always upgrade your body every few years if need be, but good glass will stay with you for a lifetime.

When it comes to evaluating lens, a couple of good sites are:

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/index.php
http://www.fredmiranda.com/
( Last edited by waxcrash; Jan 25, 2009 at 10:07 AM. )
     
ghporter
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Jan 25, 2009, 11:06 AM
 
My first SLR was a Canon AE. My first DSLR is a Canon EOS XTi. There is so much similar between the two that, in spite of what could be thought of going from early steam power to nuclear power in one jump, everything was where I needed it to be, worked the way I expected it to, and generally did what I wanted when I wanted it to.

When I first looked at digital cameras in about 1999 or 2000, I chose a Kodak over an HP and an Olympus because neither of those two seemed to have controls where a "camera" should have them. The HP's "shutter" button was nowhere near where my finger wanted it to be, and the Olympus had a lot of interesting but (to me) clumsy bells and whistles in the way of me using the camera. My little Kodak served me well in Central America for not only snaps but some spectacular pictures of mountains, people, the wonderfully complex sky there and more. I don't regret spending $400 for a camera that became obsolete in only a few years; I got lots of pictures out of it. Moral? Go with what works for you. It looks like the XTi works for you, so maybe you should look at getting more shutter time in, and maybe a couple more lenses to play with...

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Eug
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Jan 25, 2009, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
What about lenses?, the lenses that came with the cameras, be it the Nikon or Canon, seem to be a joke made of plastic, is that so?. Anyhow, which one has a better range of third party lenses?, and is there a remarkable price difference between Canon or Nikon there?
If you get a Canon or Nikon body, you don't have to get it with any lens. Just buy the body separate if you don't like the "free" lens... It will be cheaper anyway, because they don't actually give you the cheap lenses for free. They just charge you less than what it would be if you bought the lens separately.

There are many good 3rd party lenses out there, but there are also many bad ones. You have to do your research. Also, support for Canon and Nikon bodies by 3rd party lenses is reverse engineered. Sometimes the 3rd party lenses will simply no longer work with new bodies. Sometimes they can fix this with a firmware update, but only if it's still covered by a warranty (or you're willing to pay for the upgrade), and on some lenses they won't do it at all so the lens suddenly is a doorstop.


Originally Posted by waxcrash View Post
What's most important is to look at each companies lens lineup. It's not so much what body you are using, it's the glass. Nikon and Canon both make very good lens. What ever system your brother decides, my best advice is to invest in good glass and not worry so much about what body. Instead of getting one of the latest Nikon or Canon bodies, get a year or two older model and with the money saved get some good, fast, glass. You can always upgrade your body every few years if need be, but good glass will stay with you for a lifetime.
Yup... But like I mentioned, that statement applies mainly to the lenses made by Canon and Nikon themselves. Sometimes 3rd party lenses have compatibility issues with new bodies.
     
design219
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Jan 25, 2009, 01:31 PM
 
I'm salivating over the new Nikon D3x, but alas, I can't justify the price right now.
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Eug
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Jan 25, 2009, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by design219 View Post
I'm salivating over the new Nikon D3x, but alas, I can't justify the price right now.
Wow. This guy's description of the D3X is really obnoxious.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3x.htm
     
waxcrash
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Jan 25, 2009, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Wow. This guy's description of the D3X is really obnoxious.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3x.htm
Ahh, yes Ken Rockwell is a nutcase. You should see the dpreview forums whenever the subject of Mr. Rockwell comes up. The place erupts with everyone bashing him except for a few. Take whatever he says with a grain of salt.
     
Eug
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Jan 25, 2009, 02:10 PM
 
I'm looking forward to getting a new Canon camera body in about say 4 years from now. I'd be happy with a cropped sensor (esp. since one of my lenses is built for a cropped sensor), but I want reasonably adjustable and reasonably good quality 1280x720p30 movie support. I think that is totally doable in a prosumer model for around $1000.

The current high dollar 5D Mark II does 1920x1080p30 video, but the camera costs too much and I'm told the manual settings are lacking for video.

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/control...articleID=2667

Still, it's pretty damn good for an SLR still camera.
     
Hawkeye_a
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Jan 25, 2009, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
Same here.

But if i HAD to choose, i'd go Canon.
     
mr. burns
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Jan 25, 2009, 03:52 PM
 
these discussions are so pointless. try out both and use what you like. it's as simple as that. what really matters is the person using the camera.

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angelmb
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Jan 25, 2009, 04:02 PM
 
Oh yes, that was me, no wonder I find these Canon/Nikon uninspired… but it is about a 19 y.o. dude (my brother) getting his first camera right now, no way I am willing to see him to bring a über cool and expensive Leica to the campus. Albeit it would do for a good sample about classic, timeless design huh?

My photo inkjet printer is Canon (Pixma Pro 9000), but I don't think that would tip the scales in favor of the 40D/50D.
     
angelmb
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Jan 25, 2009, 04:11 PM
 
mr. burns
I understand your point, my main concern is about how those makers deal with OS X and if was there anything I 'must' know about the Canon/Nikkor lenses… cause in all honest, I don't know a damn thing about them. So far I am not going to look the specs willing to find the one-liner that would enlighten me, I am not that kind of geek folk that needs to know-it-all. If any, I wonder if the D90 being able to record video would be beneficial for my brother… But besides that? I am sure any of the listed cameras are good enough… heck if it was for me, my main concern would be ergonomics and how good looking the camera is LOL
     
Eug
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Jan 25, 2009, 04:14 PM
 
I use optics every day (albeit not with cameras) and one thing I've noticed is Leica has excellent glass, but often their ergonomics sucks. Furthermore, it seems their engineers are completely clueless at software development. I will never purchase another piece of Leica equipment that requires me to install their software on a computer. Fortunately, with cameras, you usually have no need for such software. However, it does suggest to me that Leica is losing the ability to compete. Leica's forte is glass and mechanics, but they seem to be falling behind with modern electronics.

The other issue with Leicas is although their glass is great, it's also often much more expensive, and IMO usually not justifiably so. You can also get top notch glass from Canon and Nikon.
     
Goldfinger
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Jan 25, 2009, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I use optics every day (albeit not with cameras) and one thing I've noticed is Leica has excellent glass, but often their ergonomics sucks. Furthermore, it seems their engineers are completely clueless at software development. I will never purchase another piece of Leica equipment that requires me to install their software on a computer. Fortunately, with cameras, you usually have no need for such software. However, it does suggest to me that Leica is losing the ability to compete. Leica's forte is glass and mechanics, but they seem to be falling behind with modern electronics.

The other issue with Leicas is although their glass is great, it's also often much more expensive, and IMO usually not justifiably so. You can also get top notch glass from Canon and Nikon.
It's VERY hard to justify an M8 these days. The lenses are great but the sensor is total crap. And you can't change a sensor like you could change your film.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge Leica fan, but what they are putting out in the last few years isn't great. Let's hope that the S2 will save the company.

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Eug
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Jan 25, 2009, 04:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
It's VERY hard to justify an M8 these days. The lenses are great but the sensor is total crap. And you can't change a sensor like you could change your film.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge Leica fan, but what they are putting out in the last few years isn't great. Let's hope that the S2 will save the company.
Is it their actual sensor, or the reportedly lousy in-camera image processing?
     
DeathToWindows
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Jan 25, 2009, 05:02 PM
 
In my case, I'm deeply prejudiced towards Nikon - I started off with Nikon film bodies years ago (where the comparable Canon gear felt so flimsy that I thought it'd die if I looked at it wrong)... and now I shoot a D70 for digital, and either an F4s or an F100 for film (both of the film bodies are sufficiently large and heavy to double as defensive weaponry if necessary).

No plastic crap for me!

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Goldfinger
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Jan 25, 2009, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Is it their actual sensor, or the reportedly lousy in-camera image processing?
Both, the sensor is extremely sensitive to infrared. Leica gives you old-school coloured filters to screw on your lenses so you can get real blacks instead of purple-blacks. And they are noisy. And their processing isn't the greatest.
( Last edited by Goldfinger; Jan 26, 2009 at 02:55 AM. Reason: forgot an S)

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Eug
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Jan 25, 2009, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
Leica gives you old-school coloured filter to screw on your lenses so you can get real blacks instead of purple-blacks.
Geez. That's very odd. Perhaps they want to sell to IR hobbyists?
     
angelmb
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Jan 26, 2009, 09:21 AM
 
I tried out the EOS 40D and the D90 today… and I find the Canon way bigger than the Nikon, makes me wonder if they are even comparable… size-wise the D90 seems more like a EOS 450D. Weird.
     
kikkoman
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Jan 26, 2009, 10:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
I tried out the EOS 40D and the D90 today… and I find the Canon way bigger than the Nikon, makes me wonder if they are even comparable… size-wise the D90 seems more like a EOS 450D. Weird.
I have both the D90 and XSI (450D). The D90 is about the same width of the Rebel but it is noticeably taller, thicker and heavier. Canon doesn't really offer anything comparable to the D90.
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 26, 2009, 10:22 AM
 
Most of Nikon's and Canon's line-up are offset in terms of price point: the D90 is in between the 40D and the 450D, etc. Not only in terms of price, but also in terms of features. The 40D is made of more durable materials, but the D90's and D80's built quality is much better than the plasticky 400D/450D. Ditto for viewfinder quality.
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Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 26, 2009, 02:50 PM
 
Canon and Nikon kind of leapfrog each other with current models.
XSi < D90 < 50D (debatable) < D300 < D700 < 5D Mark II < D3x/1Ds Mark III

Of course, some will probably argue over the above, but regardless...

I've found that I love using my work's Nikon for any situation that requires quick action such as sports, wildlife, on-the-fly journalistic type stuff because of their fantastic focusing features. The Canon models have far fewer focusing points, but their prime lenses in particular are heads-and-shoulders above Nikon's, IMHO. They also have a few mid-range lens models, while Nikon seems to have a lot of lower-end, then plenty on the high end, but not a lot in between.

I use a Canon 40D with several prime lenses, mostly for portraits. I'm happy with it, but want to upgrade to the 5D Mark II as soon as my bank account gives me the nod.

When all's said and done, both Nikon and Canon are fantastic, and ergonomics probably play into a lot of people's decisions. The Nikon's have a sturdy "brick-like" feel, while the Canons seem to be a little sleeker and delicate. Nikon's weather-resistance is generally a step above too.
( Last edited by Jawbone54; Jan 27, 2009 at 01:10 AM. Reason: WHOOPS...thanks, OreoCookie!)
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 26, 2009, 06:07 PM
 
In terms of price, no real argument can be made, they are what they are (justified or not ). BTW, I think you meant to write D3(x)/1Ds Mark III and not D300/…

In most cases, gear is overrated anyway … people who talk of `unbearable noise at ISO 3200' surely have missed the times when people still shot film
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Jan 26, 2009, 07:00 PM
 
I like the fact that Jawbone is now giving out advice about the very thing he was asking about three pages back, as the thread starter.
     
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Jan 26, 2009, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
I like the fact that Jawbone is now giving out advice about the very thing he was asking about three pages back, as the thread starter.
Our little baby has come a long way.*

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Railroader
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Jan 26, 2009, 07:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
In most cases, gear is overrated anyway … people who talk of `unbearable noise at ISO 3200' surely have missed the times when people still shot film
True in 99.99% of the time!!! There are a few lenses though that should never be sold, and in fact some point and shoot cameras costing less than the lenses in question do a 100X better job.
     
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Jan 26, 2009, 09:30 PM
 
It's only a tool people. You make the image. Of course, knowing what you are doing plays a role as well.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.”
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Jan 26, 2009, 11:18 PM
 
Some tools are faulty. You can do a lot more with a swiss army knife than you can with a plastic butter knife. Sure the plastic knife will do something, but often not as well as the swiss knife.
     
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Jan 26, 2009, 11:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Some tools are faulty. You can do a lot more with a swiss army knife than you can with a plastic butter knife. Sure the plastic knife will do something, but often not as well as the swiss knife.
Funny you should say that today.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 27, 2009, 01:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
I like the fact that Jawbone is now giving out advice about the very thing he was asking about three pages back, as the thread starter.
Ha...'cause I actually got out and shot with them all, rather than just read all of your opinions.

     
tooki
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Jan 27, 2009, 05:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
What about lenses?, the lenses that came with the cameras, be it the Nikon or Canon, seem to be a joke made of plastic, is that so?. Anyhow, which one has a better range of third party lenses?, and is there a remarkable price difference between Canon or Nikon there?
In my experience, Canon's kit lenses are terrible, while Nikon's kit lenses are excellent, even the cheap ones. Of course, they're not terribly fast lenses (i.e. the maximum aperture isn't the best), but they are optically sound and take great pictures. Of course, the 50D is usually not packed with typical kit lenses, it's sold alone or with a proper lens.

But as others have said, you can buy the body separate and then choose what lenses to buy with it. This can also be a good idea because a kit lens is usually a lens they think will sell the most cameras. They're not necessarily the lenses you would have picked for the photography you plan to do.

With few exceptions, don't waste your money on lenses from third-party companies. As they say, you buy a Canon or Nikon camera so that you can use Canon or Nikon lenses, not the other way around! Third-party lenses just aren't as good in most cases. The exception, IMHO, is Tokina. Another huge reason to buy original lenses is that if/when it comes time to sell them, they don't lose much value. Third-party lenses NEVER retain anywhere near as much value on resale.
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 27, 2009, 06:25 AM
 
Ditto on Tokina, they feel very sturdy and the IQ is IMO more than worth the money.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Railroader
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Jan 27, 2009, 09:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Face Ache View Post
Well, there you go. If he had used the Swiss Army knife he wouldn't have done such a horrible job and needed to call for help. He would have just bled to death and ... well, you make your own conclusion.
     
hayesk
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Jan 29, 2009, 12:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn View Post
You want honesty?
Pick a camera. Learn how to be a photographer. Then it won't matter which you use.
While it's true in learning how to be a photographer, as you learn you are going to form preferences for equipment. Otherwise, all we would need are $20 point-and-shoot cameras.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 29, 2009, 01:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Our little baby has come a long way.*

*Seriously, he has come a LOOONNGGG way. His flickr account is impressive.
Forgot tell you thank you, sir.
     
 
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